No GT3e (5200) for any MBP

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by dusk007, Mar 26, 2013.

  1. dusk007 macrumors 68040

    dusk007

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2009
    #1
    Recent rumors suggest that the GT3e GPU will be nothing more than a test run for Intel. Back before Ivy Bridge there where rumors that Intel was trying to get at least one or two chips with special embedded RAM out. Didn't happen but it seems now with Haswell they are still only in testing phase and it will be Broadwell when that becomes more mainstream.

    http://chinese.vr-zone.com/56926/in...th-gt2-gt2-gt2-package-cache-memory-03252013/
    http://www.computerbase.de/news/2013-03/vollausbau-der-haswell-grafik-als-hd-5xxx-in-notebooks/

    Now if this is true there will only be a GT3e in one high end HQ quad core that is probably quite expensive. The clock speeds of the GPU are pretty amazing. With 1300 Mhz, 40 EUs and eRAM it may really be a quite decent GPU.

    I don't see the point however. All current notebooks that could accomodate a 47W CPU already come with 650M dGPUs and those will still beat a GT3e. Those at 35W and lower which usually could use a fast GPU won't just fit that CPU.
    Now this will only really be a useful chip for some special redesign for that TDP and pretty expensive. I have a feeling most manufacturers including Apple won't bother and just wait for Broadwell. These GT3e will practically be non existent.
    Just not worth the price.

    All the other CPUs seem to be only getting GT3 or GT2 but always without any eRAM and most likely lower clocks.
    Seems to me we can stop wondering about the HD 5200 performance because it won't matter.
     
  2. dusk007 thread starter macrumors 68040

    dusk007

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2009
    #2
    Haswell looks more and more like Intel testing ground.
    They release SoC on the ULV.
    eRAM GPU on the high end.
    The middle is largely the same as Ivy Bridge.

    So they can blow a few things here and there and not risk too much while getting ready for 14nm Broadwell. Maybe Broadwell will not take as long as I assumed and Haswell really will have a very short life.
    Fudzilla has a rumor about dual core needing till Q4/2013.
    http://fudzilla.com/home/item/30859-haswell-35w-dual-cores-in-q4-2013
    Broadwell supposedly has already taped out and 14nm was scheduled to be ready in Q4/2013 which Intel thought still to be realistic not too long ago.
    If Haswell just makes it out in full force for Christmas, it would already hit the end of its life Q2/2014 possibly.
     
  3. Serban Suspended

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2013
    #3
    So for retinaMacbbok pro 15" they will have GT3 with Geforce 650M
    And for 13" retina and macbook airs will have HD 5000
     
  4. luffytubby macrumors 6502a

    luffytubby

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2008
    #4
    its disappointing because we've been down this road before...


    sandybridge promised amazing batterylife, significantly improved iGPU. Then ivy bridge promised the same...


    throughout everything on CULV, the battery life has always been disappointing. We need a lithium revolution. these batteries are wasteful, overly expensive and lots of lithium is supplied from children working in mines in the third world.


    lack of battery power is what keeps us from being truly mobile. Imagine a laptop that would have 10 days of hardcore use before the need of a charge, or a battery that would last 10,000 cycles instead of merely thousands. or batteries that are recycleable.



    Everything about our current battery technology pisses me off. across all my devices. from my Nintendo DS, to my wireless mouse and keyboard, to my tablet, to my smartphone, to my xbox controller to my laptop...
     
  5. Serban Suspended

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2013
    #5
    Yes but think about this...in history the difference between an dedicated and integrated graphic cards was like the distance between earth and moon, but with the hd4000 that difference it cuts the difference in half. So if they will manage to put in all macbooks at least hd5000 and for top end 5200 they will be one step ahead.
     
  6. Mr MM macrumors 65816

    Mr MM

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2011
    #6
    that was actually expected, its been a test run for intel, some years ago when they asked oems if they wanted a embedded ram version of it, only apple said yes, however I was expecting 35w models of that, and as it is not many models.

    but quite the difference from the 1st slide sneak peak that was showed to us, without ANY GT3 cores and accepted as truth.

    Still, that doesnt make much sense, we have to wait and see what happens, 47w quads are usually coupled with dgpus, that in itself is kind of defeating the purpose, however if the GT3e smashes the low end, that in itself means more quad sales, with still thinner and lighter designs because of the removal of one source of heat, or design of more silence cooling solutions

    So scenarios:

    1) GT3e does appear in more cpus

    Destined to provide more valuable info if that expensive change to the cpu is indeed going move forward

    2) GT3e doesnt appear in more cpus

    Destined to fail as product or in any other kind of metric. OEMs like the use OEM class cpus, thats not going to be one, thats going to be expensive, thus its going to be in the high end products. How many very portable (14'' less), high quality notebooks we have available from the largest OEMs with 45w? NONE. We have a few designs that couple that form factor of portable and high quality in the 15'' however they are coupled with a dgpu.

    I hope intel is not stupid and goes with scenario 1, otherwise I wouldnt even bothered to please apple, despite being a very premium partner
     
  7. dusk007, Mar 26, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2013

    dusk007 thread starter macrumors 68040

    dusk007

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2009
    #7
    @Serban So for 15" they will more likely have a GT2 + dGPU.
    No rumor has yet suggested any Quad Cores + GT3 without e.

    It totally defeats the purpose if eRAM GPUs only show up on these weird Quad Cores. I also wonder how that will all fit with the big DIE + the RAM. Would make more economical sense to test drive a 35W or lower common CPU.
    Maybe it is really just not true or
    it is because they aren't sure how their yield with this eRAM is and want to try a really low volume product. If they release a very convincing and useful chip and next cannot satisfy demand the shareholders will be mad. While this somewhat stupid strategy is economically dumb it is less likely to call down the wrath of shareholders if something goes wrong.
    If eRAM works fine they could sell lots and lots of 35W chips but of those 47W it will remain low volume regardless how production yield is. Shareholders won't be as mad about that though as they won't make the connection.

    UPDATE: I just took another look at the CPU list. It is only U and Y processors listed. That is 17W and 10W replacements. Now the 35W mainstream doesn't really show up at all. Assuming that they won't simply remove that market entirely maybe there are still some more 5200s in those.

    Apple could release a rMBP 15" without a dedicated GPU at a lower price point. I think to remember there used to be once a entry 15" without any dGPU. Somehow I doubt it though. As with those CPU prices they won't save much but the customers would ask for quite a bit of price deduction. Just dumping dedicated completely is out of the question I think. The *****torm couldn't be halted.

    @luffytubby Litihum mining is not exactly child labour. They just plow with big machines through the ground and next do huge environmental damage to seperate the Li from all the rest. No child is of any use in the process. The children probably suffer more from living near such mining activities.
    Still I agree the whole battery business is frustrating. For 15 years now we have heard of hundreds of break throughs and promises of vastly better batteries. Nothing showed. Batteries mostly stayed the same and the little increases we did get, went into slimming down the device rather than for once doubling capacity. I think in the smartphone business that is even more annoying.
    I just want to have one smartphone that is 2-3mm thicker but that space is entirely filled with battery.
    The thickness of my 3GS is fine. I want more battery life first. Except for the Razr Maxx the market is simply not interested to serve people that would like battery life more than anything else.
     
  8. Stetrain, Mar 26, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2013

    Stetrain macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2009
    #8
    In the past it seems like we rarely get the full picture of Intel's mobile chip lineup until the final announcements.

    Just because this month's list of Haswell CPUs doesn't have a 35/37W CPU with HD5200 doesn't mean it won't happen.

    Those lists seem to only show a total of 5 Haswell mobile i7 parts, which doesn't seem like the whole picture. It also doesn't list TDPs except for the two HD5200 parts. Compare that to this list of Ivy Bridge mobile parts (with 18 i7 mobile SKUs!) and it's clear that we do not yet have the full mobile Haswell lineup:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivy_Bridge_(microarchitecture)#Mobile_processors

    Only offering HD5200 on super high end quad core CPUs seems strange. Most notebooks with those CPUs are in a price and size bracket that would let them have a dedicated GPU anyway. I would think that the real market for the HD5200 graphics would be in lower TDP parts for notebooks without room for a dedicated GPU.
     
  9. dusk007 thread starter macrumors 68040

    dusk007

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2009
    #9
    A few things I would still comment on that.
    iGPU improvement to Ivy Bridge did show and have been quite huge. Sandy Bridge to that before was simply a game changer as anything Arrendale was much slower and the stuff before Arrendale was even enough for 2D.
    Batterylife did also increase albeit marginally.
    Read this though.
    http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2270059
    Nothing we get from spec rumors will really tell us how battery life will really be. Especially those SoC Y and U Haswell may be pretty amazing in that department. Under load it is the same as always but most of the time our CPUs sit idle.
     
  10. Mr MM macrumors 65816

    Mr MM

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2011
    #10
    well that pretty much is clear, the comments that I made was basically to expect some more models with those, if intel does its job right

    They did deliver more battery life. They did deliver significant improved igpu, and they did deliver the performance difference that they always say, 5-20%, that is always the norm these day, the major difference was for quads, the i7 940xm loses handedly to the i7 2670qm, yes an unlocked quad cant resist a locked OEM cpu from the next generation

    Lets get some Mass Effect 3 for comparison

    4500 - 7fps on low 1280*720
    HD 3000 - 31fps on low 1280*720
    HD 4000 - 48.3fps on low 1280*720

    thats really major if you ask me.

    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/core-i7-4770k-haswell-performance,3461-7.html

    there is also this. Still thats not going to kill any mobile gpus out there, but you cant say about the improvement, its there

    yes, we need new batteries we know that, nothing is yet usable

    I hope all of those imagined slave labor kids die a horrible and painful death, that would suit them fine.
     

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