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And you know this from what actually ? Again people : There is no official word from Apple here. All this is pure speculation on the part of a Russian rag.
This is the basic world, and basic business. You would have to be a complete fool to take the membership of a Mac forum—people who are passionate enough about this subject to devote time to discussing it in a forum, generally young, and technically inclined enough to care about the smallest nuances of their device—as even the slightest representation of the millions and millions of iPhone users out there. Common sense still exists.

1- The 3GS and the 4 have the same GPU/CPU combo essentially. ARM Cortex A8 paired with a SGX535.
600 MHz ARM Cortex-A8 vs 800 MHz Apple A4.
Different clock speeds, improved architecture in the iPhone 4. No.
And I seem to recall discussion about the improved graphics architecture in the iPhone 4 but I haven't found confirmation of that. All this aside, the difference between these devices for someone who has used both is very much apparent.

2- The 3GS and the iPad 1 share the same amount of RAM, 256 MB.
The iPad 1 and the 3GS is the best cutoff discussion available and is the factor which makes this rumor easier to doubt, but the iPad 1 does have a significantly superior processor (and IIRC better graphics architecture as well; could be wrong on that). Add to this the fact that the 3GS isn't exactly running the latest OS like a champ anyhow and it isn't hard to see how greater requirements can tip the tables against it. The iPad is going to be a little difficult to address, though, but Apple needs to address it somehow, but they've got more room to work with it.

3- The original iPhone got 3 iOS versions : 1.x, 2.x and 3.x. The iPhone 3G got 3 revisions of iOS, 2.x, 3.x and 4.x. It stands to reason the 3GS is going to get the same 3 revisions : iOS 3.x, 4.x and 5.x.
In an orderly universe this would be the case, but that's not how things always work (nor does history lend itself to this statement). On that note, though, if your argument is simply that the 3GS will get this upgrade that is something I could possibly agree with. This discussion is based on a rumor and there is the possibility that the 3GS may also get a reduced-functionality upgrade to iOS 5, but for once the rumor does have some basis in reality. This is all quite independent to the points of mine you originally replied to, though, which were focused on the customer base.

4- The difference in performance between the iPhone 3G and 3GS and between the 3GS and 4 is quite different. The iPhone 3G was quite underpowered compared to the 3GS, which is close to the 4 (even scoring better FPS in most OpenGL games du to its lower screen resolution).
The difference between the 3GS and the 4 is highly relevant. In addition to CPU and graphics (where the difference is not as great as the jump between the 3G and the 3GS) we have double the available RAM, and that will play a strong role. The iPhone 4 will probably handle iOS 5 like a champ while the 3GS is already on the edge. The only real comparison is the iPad where some of its strengths seem to be countered to some extent by its larger screen.

These 4 facts make me certain this Russian editor is full of crap. The 3GS will get some form of iOS 5.0. Will it be a limited release like the iPhone 3G's iOS 4.0 ? Maybe, maybe not. That remains to be seen.
It very well might.

So let's stay calm and not pretend anyone is more right than anyone else here. Anyone talking about this topic is purely in the realm of opinion, and not of facts. You are not more right than anyone else.
Except people are more knowledgeable and accurate than others when discussing matters with which they are quite familiar. In fact, some people tend to be regularly more accurate than others because their level of knowledge on a subject changes drastically from someone who is simply enthusiastic about a subject to someone who has been working in an industry for most of their lives. We can only speculate on the 3GS rumor itself (it does seem a little premature, but somewhat viable) but other matters are extremely easy to discuss factually.
 
The iPhone 3Gs, iPod Touch 3G, iPad 1, iPhone 4, and iPod Touch 4G all have the same GPU, the SGX535. It has not been tweaked across the different models.

Lastly, people seem to be forgetting that the iPod Touch 4G also has only 256Mb of RAM.
 
Really, my biggest beef with Apple's planned obsolescence with regards to its iOS devices isn't that I won't be able to run the latest version of the OS. That sort of thing bugs me more on a Mac than it does on something like an iPod touch or an iPad. What bothers me is that whenever Apple is in the process of testing and then finally pushing out a new version of iOS, they put out new features and legitimately cool things for devs to incorporate into their apps, which would be great were it not for the fact that said apps then start to require the new version of iOS and will thusly not run on older iOS devices that can't run that version of iOS or, perhaps in the case of the iPhone 3G, can run that version of iOS but way more sluggishly than is optimal. To continue to invest in apps either requires that you replace your iOS device every two or three years or that you, upon no longer being able to run the latest version of iOS, stop downloading updates to your apps. And that is certifiably annoying. Motorola may never upgrade my original Droid to Gingerbread (Android 2.3) from Froyo (Android 2.2.2, as it is on my phone today), and even if they don't, the amount of developers that are mandating 2.3.x or higher for their apps are in the minority and will likely stay that way longer than it will eventually take me to replace my phone naturally and frankly, that's how it should be. I shouldn't be stuck on an iPhone that can't run my apps because they've been updated to utilize features of (and incidentally require that I have) a version of iOS that I can't run on my iPhone.

I mean, I do also dislike the fact that my first generation iPod touch gradually became much much slower with iOS 3.x than it ever was with iOS 1.x. I do dislike that my third generation iPod touch runs the current version of iOS 4 slower than it did 3.x. I fear that my iPad 1 will not take as well to iOS 5 as it did 4, or worse, be left out of the loop. I mean sure, you put in new features into any OS and the requirements go up, but it's almost guaranteed that upgrading to the next version will result in a device that simply isn't as fast as it was before and to some degree, that's not right. Perhaps, iOS needs it's equivalent of Snow Leopard; a version that completely rewrites the OS from the inside out to have a much more unified codebase and be leaner, meaner and more efficient from the ground up.

The only saving grace to any of this is that an iPod touch unable to run the latest version of either a user's apps library or of iOS itself, is still fully functional as an iPod Similarly an iPhone unable to run the same is still fully functional as an iPhone. The same goes for the iPad (if not to a slightly lesser degree). Otherwise the speed at which these non-laptop mobile devices are rendered obsolete is kind of irritating.
 
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This is the basic world, and basic business. You would have to be a complete fool to take the membership of a Mac forum—people who are passionate enough about this subject to devote time to discussing it in a forum, generally young, and technically inclined enough to care about the smallest nuances of their device—as even the slightest representation of the millions and millions of iPhone users out there. Common sense still exists.

And you'd have to be a basic fool to discuss this as if it were an official Apple press release and berate others for not agreeing, something you seem to be doing.

600 MHz ARM Cortex-A8 vs 800 MHz Apple A4.
Different clock speeds, improved architecture in the iPhone 4.

Wait, first attempt at disproving me, you make such a mistake ? So much for "being more knowledgeable". The iPhone 4's A4 is a ARM Cortex-A8. Thanks for playing.
 
Very mature.

Look in the mirror pal. You post is full of immature name-calling, innuendo, etc. You are the definition of immature.

No, it is not just a 'server/host' issue. I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess you're not a programmer (or at least not experienced in this area). There is much more additional programming/testing/follow-up up required than you suggest. Probably not as much as a major feature like AirPlay, but still, it falls into a similar consideration. And the best point on this one is that

This alone tells me you don't know an iPad from a stick. Apple already has the television shows in an ATV1 friendly format. The ATV is already set up to rent movie content. The only difference between a 'movie' and a 'tv show' from the ATV's perspective is a flag in the file. Relative effort to offer tv show rentals is negligible. It is a shopping issue more than a Gen1 hardware issue. They can copy/reuse a lot of code from the movies pane. It's a fairly minor modification. They would prefer you bought a new ATV2 regardless. They want all their toys to be iOS in the future. ATV1 is still using a modified Tiger.

The only reason Apple ever dumps hardware from their OS support list is to 'encourage' you to buy newer hardware, which is usually where most of their profit margin comes from (i.e. the iTunes store has always been meant to prop up hardware sales, not the other way around. Apple has said this in the past. iTunes sales are meant to be as cheap as possible and low margin, barely above breaking even. It sells iPods, iPhones, etc. It also is a long-term method of control once the market matures (i.e. why the record companies despise Apple despite Apple selling their albums, etc. for them).

This is a little more a rant—maybe a tantrum—than an objective discussion of the matter at hand. Pricing is up to the studios, so deal with that. What

See what I mean about that mirror? :rolleyes:

Pricing most certainly is NOT just up to the studios. Get a clue before you post. Prices for rentals are negotiated with the studios the same way music prices are negotiated for music (otherwise how do you explain the flat rental rates on ATV? They NEVER vary except for weekly specials and old versus new). Most studios refuse to even allow Apple to sell movies since they know where their bread is buttered (i.e. Blu-Ray). And let me tell you it's Apple that is leading the discussions or the movie studios wouldn't agree to same-rate flat-rate pricing. They rallied against it with music and Apple finally had to relent a bit for flexible pricing or you wouldn't have to pay $1.29 now for most music instead of 99 cents (the 69 cent rate was a joke from day 1; almost no one offers them).


Okay, I see at this point I probably shouldn't have even bothered responding to you. You're so pissed off that you're not even seeing things factually. Rather, you just perceive matters in a way that pleases the ideas you have about this. Apple has not abandoned the Mac, you're just jealous that they have someone else on the side.

I'd rather that you didn't respond. It'd be better to stay silent then post a bunch of fanboy malarkey and immature name-calling. :rolleyes:
 
And you'd have to be a basic fool to discuss this as if it were an official Apple press release and berate others for not agreeing, something you seem to be doing.
I don't think anyone actually believes that the membership of this forum (or even the regularly active membership of the internet) is representative of Apple's customer base. I can see how that could have been taken personally based on my wording and that was not intended.

Your original response was to a point I made which was not specific to the actual original topic (no iOS 5 on 3GS, which I had stated earlier that I was skeptical about), but rather to a response I made to another member about how Apple's demographic would break down on this matter. Additionally, you made a rather large response which tied back in to the original issue (which I wasn't actually at odds with you in regard to). Why be surprised that you received a lengthy response?

Wait, first attempt at disproving me, you make such a mistake ? So much for "being more knowledgeable". The iPhone 4's A4 is a ARM Cortex-A8. Thanks for playing.
And if the chips have the exact same architecture (simply different names) then I truly was wrong on that account. I seem to recall hearing something different during a keynote and the different names in specifications lend to such confusion (happy to have additional clarification or confirmation on that). We're all wrong more often than we expect and I'm certainly no exception.

However, addressing that specific point while ignoring the others really doesn't lend to discussion. If you're offended, I understand that as well, though. But I'll respond anyhow. Even if you factor the difference between the iPhone 4 and the 3GS with the same processors and a 200 MHz difference, the performance and potential of the iPhone 4 is still superior enough that any potential cut-off point for iOS 5 between the two devices can easily exclude the iPhone 5 and exclude the 3GS. The better example, by far, is the original iPad.

And I wouldn't be overly upset at the notion of debating a rumor, even if it is expected to be false. This is a rumor site, after all.
 
Look in the mirror pal. You post is full of immature name-calling, innuendo, etc. You are the definition of immature.
My apologies. I did not mean to come across as such, but sometimes I manage it.

This alone tells me you don't know an iPad from a stick. Apple already has the television shows in an ATV1 friendly format. The ATV is already set up to rent movie content. The only difference between a 'movie' and a 'tv show' from the ATV's perspective is a flag in the file. Relative effort to offer tv show rentals is negligible. It is a shopping issue more than a Gen1 hardware issue. They can copy/reuse a lot of code from the movies pane. It's a fairly minor modification. They would prefer you bought a new ATV2 regardless. They want all their toys to be iOS in the future. ATV1 is still using a modified Tiger.
The above doesn't lend well to how much I know about the iPad. I'm quite familiar with the device, but so be it. But what you wrote in addition is a terrific case for me being wrong as I mentioned above. I have never really rented products much from the AppleTV (I have both: an original in my family room and a second generation in my exercise room). When I read the original response about the rental issue it came across to me as if the original AppleTV did not support rentals. I thought it did, but I didn't realize he (?) was actually speaking specifically about tv show rentals. I thought it odd but I didn't consider that Apple would allow movie rentals but not TV show rentals. In this case, my original response was wrong, I owe an apology*, and my opinion has changed. I don't think it would have been a horrible task for Apple to go back and make those changes. It would have required work but I think it would have probably been worth doing.

Edit: I realize that was you now. See the bottom of my reply.

The only reason Apple ever dumps hardware from their OS support list is to 'encourage' you to buy newer hardware, which is usually where most of their profit margin comes from (i.e. the iTunes store has always been meant to prop up hardware sales, not the other way around. Apple has said this in the past. iTunes sales are meant to be as cheap as possible and low margin, barely above breaking even. It sells iPods, iPhones, etc. It also is a long-term method of control once the market matures (i.e. why the record companies despise Apple despite Apple selling their albums, etc. for them).
This plays some role in the matter, but Apple has been pretty consistent in obsoleting their own products in the name of progress and their executives have been clear about this strategy for some time now. There's room to interpret this in a rage from intelligent company strategy to screwing customers (and the truth is probably somewhere in the middle) but I think most of the cases in which they have obsoleted products or elements of products have been quite reasonable. I can agree that the original AppleTV was treated harshly, though.

One more thought. The iTunes Store was originally proposed with the notion of more or less breaking even, which was a good business strategy at the time because that made life more difficult for competitors and helped to prop up their actual hardware. In recent history, though, it has become more profitable and we've also seen Apple make aggressive moves such as aiming for their 30% cut on subscriptions despite significant blowback from their customer base, media, and companies. This is also the same industry which Amazon is content to compete in for its inherent profit. The iTMS is not a big slice of Apple's cake, but it registers, and is a mighty delicious slice from the perspective of outside companies. In short, times have changed a little.

See what I mean about that mirror? :rolleyes:

Pricing most certainly is NOT just up to the studios. Get a clue before you post. Prices for rentals are negotiated with the studios the same way music prices are negotiated for music (otherwise how do you explain the flat rental rates on ATV? They NEVER vary except for weekly specials and old versus new). Most studios refuse to even allow Apple to sell movies since they know where their bread is buttered (i.e. Blu-Ray). And let me tell you it's Apple that is leading the discussions or the movie studios wouldn't agree to same-rate flat-rate pricing. They rallied against it with music and Apple finally had to relent a bit for flexible pricing or you wouldn't have to pay $1.29 now for most music instead of 99 cents (the 69 cent rate was a joke from day 1; almost no one offers them).
The price range was negotiated with the studios, who in turn price their products within the provided range (remember this was originally in response to music, not other media with fixed prices). You could, perhaps, be upset with Apple for giving them the option to go up to $1.29 (remember, that was a pretty important concession in a tough negotiation), but you can't really be upset with Apple because studios aren't pricing their content at $0.69. As for the other media, Apple has been fighting to lower prices—not increase them—and that's not exactly an unfriendly practice to consumers.

I disagree somewhat with your perspective on the music/video industries. One reason why they've tried pricing things lower through competitors like Amazon is because they don't want Apple to have as much control of the market as they do. They want Apple's competitors to be successful. Apple isn't afraid to use the strength they have in this market, so it seems like a very reasonable response.

I'd rather that you didn't respond. It'd be better to stay silent then post a bunch of fanboy malarkey and immature name-calling. :rolleyes:
I was wrong. But this is not the proper way to handle it.

Edit: I went back to find the fellow who I had disagreed with in regard to it being a 'server/host' issue and the amount of work that would have been associated with the change on Apple's part, so I could apologize, and discovered that it was you. I apologize for misunderstanding your point about rentals of TV shows vs. movies and for being incorrect on my knowledge about the original Apple TV’s rental capabilities. I expressed myself quite poorly in that exchange.
 
Edit: I went back to find the fellow who I had disagreed with in regard to it being a 'server/host' issue and the amount of work that would have been associated with the change on Apple's part, so I could apologize, and discovered that it was you. I apologize for misunderstanding your point about rentals of TV shows vs. movies and for being incorrect on my knowledge about the original Apple TV’s rental capabilities. I expressed myself quite poorly in that exchange.

I appreciate your apology. :)
 
The same could be said for ip4, but consider the consumer buying an iPhone and then hearing that apple is releasing a new OS, only to find out they can't get it, even though its a new phone.

It's not a new phone though! Just because you purchase it "new" in a box, doesn't change the fact that it will be over two years old when iOS 5 is released. People that bought the 3GS in the last year for $50 when the 4 was out already have no room to complain. They got a great phone with a perfectly stable and useable os for only $50 when it was $200-300 new. Part of that savings is lack of newer hardware features like retina display and front camera, but also the possibility of not getting new software features. If you want the latest and greatest you don't buy out of the bargin bin.
 
It's not a new phone though! Just because you purchase it "new" in a box, doesn't change the fact that it will be over two years old when iOS 5 is released. People that bought the 3GS in the last year for $50 when the 4 was out already have no room to complain. They got a great phone with a perfectly stable and useable os for only $50 when it was $200-300 new. Part of that savings is lack of newer hardware features like retina display and front camera, but also the possibility of not getting new software features. If you want the latest and greatest you don't buy out of the bargin bin.

Yes, it's new. It's sold as new, it's in a sealed box, it comes with a fresh warranty. It's new. And forget last year, you can buy it right now.

And it's getting iOS 5 contrary to this rumor, which goes against the history of iOS releases and iPhone hardware support in the past, not to mention that it defied hardware logic.
 
Really, my biggest beef with Apple's planned obsolescence...

Who says "Apple plans obsolescence"?

Think about it... if you really believe that then you're saying that Apple deliberately makes devices that won't be able to do the things they haven't thought of (or perfected) yet...

I'm sorry... I just don't get it. Continually making better products IS NOT THE SAME AS planning for all products to be obsolete after a time.

It's more than just Apple. Do you ever want anyone in the world to make a better product? If you do, guess what... the product you bought won't be as good as the new one but it will still work just as well as the day you bought it.

If you don't want Apple to innovate, then kill all the innovators at Apple. After that go over and do the same at Google, Samsung, HTC, Nokia, HP, et cetera so that no new phone is ever made... now your current iPhone will never be obsolete. You win.

While you're at it, get rid of your car and buy a horse. Unplug your electricity and go and cut some firewood - otherwise your fireplace might become obsolete. </rant>
 
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An Interesting Fact

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Image


Eldar Murtazin, editor-in-chief of Russian mobile phone blog Mobile-Review today reported in a Tweet (via MacStories) that iOS 5 will not be compatible with the iPhone 3GS, limiting the next-generation operating system to the current iPhone and of course new models yet to come as far as the iPhone is concerned.The information is unverified and it is unclear from where Murtazin obtained the information, but he does have a very solid reputation in the mobile phone rumor community. Murtazin does not, however, frequently report on Apple's plans.

iOS 4.0 was released last June with compatibility for the iPhone 3G, 3GS, and 4, although some of the iOS 4 features were not available on the older hardware. That fragmentation continued until Apple finally discontinued support for iPhone 3G updates with the release of iOS 4.3 earlier this year, leaving that device at a maximum operating system version of iOS 4.2.1.

Limiting iOS 5 to a minimum of iPhone 4 hardware would be a significant shift toward high-end hardware requirements, particularly considering that Apple still sells the iPhone 3GS. iOS 5 has, however, been reported to be a significant reworking of the company's mobile operating system, and Apple may simply feel that only the latest hardware (relatively speaking) will offer a satisfactory experience.

Article Link: No iOS 5 for iPhone 3GS?

I hope to hear more news on this.
 
You guys, dont even worry.

The 3GS WILL GET iOS 5.

Of course, with limited support. Every iPhone has been given 2 major software updates. What makes it so different for the 3GS? This is just a rumor and you guys treat it like it is real, when it doesnt need to be.
 
I'm sorry... I just don't get it. Continually making better products IS NOT THE SAME AS planning for all products to be obsolete after a time.

No, it's not the same, but that's not all Apple does. Apple can make new products without ditching support for old products. They didn't have to make Lion incompatible with Intel 32-bit Macs. They don't have to dump ALL support in a new iOS version to add new features only for new hardware. They don't have to stop 100% of AppleTV Gen1 software updates just because AppleTV2 came out. Microsoft certainly doesn't ditch compatibility with older machines every time they release something new. And that's because Microsoft doesn't have a vested interest in selling new hardware to people that don't need it. Just because you apparently are incapable of seeing the difference, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. :rolleyes:
 
Would be a big mistake if they did. Tons of people still have a 3Gs including myself :) And it would be ridiculous if they're selling a phone that can't run the latest software!
Really? Why? People know when they buy the 3GS, they're getting 2009's iPhone but for the very low price of $49. There's a trade-off. Less tech for less money. A lot less money. Why should Apple have to support a 2yr old device. 3GS owners were lucky to get iOS 4. People love to piss & moan. Honestly. America's full of babies.
 
Really? Why? People know when they buy the 3GS, they're getting 2009's iPhone but for the very low price of $49. There's a trade-off. Less tech for less money. A lot less money. Why should Apple have to support a 2yr old device. 3GS owners were lucky to get iOS 4. People love to piss & moan. Honestly. America's full of babies.

Alot less money?

hmm assuming about 80 a month for service (and more merely makes the cost difference % smaller)
32 gig iphone 4 = 300 + 24months * 80bucks/month = $2220
8gig iphone 3gs = 50 + 24*80bucks/month = $1970

So the difference between the top of the line model and the basic 3gs is a mere 250 dollars over TWO years/ The 3gs has a 89% total cost of the most expensive iphone model

Hardly a lot less money:cool:
 
If this means that iOS5 is a major overhaul that the 3GS can't support effectively, then by all means I support this.

Completely agree. I want iOS5 to push the limits of the new hardware. If it's crippled just so people can limp by on a $49 phone that is generations old, I would be disappointed.
 
3G, not 3GS

The tweet said, "Apple iPhone 3Gs wont be upgradable to iOS 5.x.", not "the Apple iPhone 3GS wont be upgradable to iOS 5.x."

Which means the iPhone 3G won't be upgradeable to iOS 5.x.
 
The tweet said, "Apple iPhone 3Gs wont be upgradable to iOS 5.x.", not "the Apple iPhone 3GS wont be upgradable to iOS 5.x."

Which means the iPhone 3G won't be upgradeable to iOS 5.x.

Nope. Because then he says the iPhone 4 will support it. Then he would also mention 3GS would support it and not only iPhone 4.
 
The fact that Apple is still selling the iPhone 3GS makes this pretty ridiculous.

i also found this odd. my thought was it was cheaper for them to still sell the model to capture the lesser financial demographic. $49 for an iPhone is not bad.

but i would be pissed if i just signed on to learn just after i would lose support at the latest level.
 
No, it's not the same, but that's not all Apple does. Apple can make new products without ditching support for old products. They didn't have to make Lion incompatible with Intel 32-bit Macs. They don't have to dump ALL support in a new iOS version to add new features only for new hardware. They don't have to stop 100% of AppleTV Gen1 software updates just because AppleTV2 came out. Microsoft certainly doesn't ditch compatibility with older machines every time they release something new. And that's because Microsoft doesn't have a vested interest in selling new hardware to people that don't need it. Just because you apparently are incapable of seeing the difference, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. :rolleyes:
yeah but apple needs to sell hardware to make money... they aren't going to make money releasing software updates, so they stop supporting a product after a certain amount of time. Your product however, does NOT stop working, it still does everything that was advertised to you when you bought it. If you want the newest features you are going to have to buy the new product. This isn't something new so I'm not sure why people are so surprised by it. If you don't like this business model, you don't HAVE to buy apple products. Also, as has been pointed out, this is an UNCONFIRMED RUMOR by some guy in Russia.....
 
I don't get the thought process on why the 3GS must get iOS 5. "Because every other iPhone got two major upgrades!" I think that Apple doesn't specifically adhere to a set pattern all the time (eg new iPhone in September this year), and if iOS 5 is a major overhaul then why waste time on making it run acceptably on the 3GS? It's not a simple button check to make it work on the 3GS; tons of time testing and debugging for a phone that will no longer be sold and was first released two years ago. I really don't think anyone is appreciating the effort required to make it run on a different set of hardware, regardless of whether some of it's components are shared with newer models.

I understand that they still sell it now but at a discounted rate, which seems like a fair trade off for not getting the next major update. I'm not saying that they 100% shouldn't update the 3GS, but it seems like a reasonable action to me.
 
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