No Mac Pro?

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by mavericks7913, Jun 8, 2017.

  1. mavericks7913 macrumors 6502

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    NY
    #1
    A guy told me that since Apple announced iMac Pro, they dont need to make Mac Pro because...

    1. Apple prefer close system not open system like Mac Pro 2010 had.
    2. iMac Pro can upgrade and expand with Thunderbolt3 externally.
    3. Dual CPU, more RAMs and storage: There is no programs supporting more CPU and RAMs. Forget it.
    http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/mac/...release-date-uk-price-features-specs-3536364/

    I would like to ask if you need a new Mac Pro like 2010 version or not instead of all in one workstation like iMac Pro
     
  2. William Payne macrumors 6502a

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    #2
    A new mac pro is known to be coming, and was even mentioned in the iMac pro press release.
     
  3. mcnallym macrumors 6502a

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    #3
    What ALL users wether pro or non-pro users NEED is a machine that allows them to achieve their day to day tasks in an acceptable to them timescale.

    After that it comes down to what they WANT.

    Being able to upgrade the Graphics card in 1-2 years does not make any difference to the ability of a workstation to allow a user of that workstation to complete the day to day tasks right now. Same for Memory and CPU.

    What a user NEEDS is the ability to have the Storage available to them that they require. It doesn't matter wether that Storage is Internal or External or how is connected as long as it works, and is fast enough for what they need.

    When the workstation no longer meets your NEEDs you then you evaluate how to meet your new requirements.

    How a workstation meets those needs is a preference of the user.

    AIO or Tower really is a Preference of how a workstation meets your needs.
     
  4. kschendel macrumors 6502a

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    #4
    Apple has specifically stated in writing (press release) that a new Mac Pro is coming. I'm puzzled by the number of people who think they know better - and, as a corollary, think that Apple has flat-out lied in their press release. It's always possible that something unforeseen happens between now and then to kill it, but I have to believe that at this point in time, Apple seriously intends to produce a new non-all-in-one Mac Pro.

    I'll take the a new Mac Pro over an iMac Pro largely because expansion via Thunderbolt doesn't reflect how most of our customers do things. I need a machine that I can put spinning disks into if that's what I want.
     
  5. AidenShaw macrumors P6

    AidenShaw

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    #5
    I agree with that - and agree with the comment that things could change.
     
  6. sinisterdesign macrumors 6502

    sinisterdesign

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    #6
    The iMac Pro is a band-aid until they can get the new Mac Pro out. It's trying to satisfy the pro crowd for the next 6 months to a year.
     
  7. kschendel macrumors 6502a

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    #7
    I don't think it's a band-aid at all. I just think that it's not a "pro" machine in the traditional way, and that part of the name is just marketing. The iMac Pro will find a niche among power users who aren't necessarily making their living from it (the "prosumer"). It may also have some appeal for corporate buyers where the lack of upgradeability isn't necessarily as important if the budget is for a fixed lifetime anyway.

    In the espresso world you see much the same sort of thing, high end expensive machines that are aimed at the serious espresso fan but not really suited for pro users which are the coffee shops.
     
  8. sinisterdesign macrumors 6502

    sinisterdesign

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    #8
    Fair point, but that's a fairly niche product. They've long gotten away from Steve's 4 quadrant product philosophy of: consumer desktop, consumer laptop, pro desktop, pro laptop but that's adding yet another niche quadrant.

    I just don't see the prosumer market that would drop $5k+ on a marginally upgradable machine when there would be a high-end spec (non-Pro) iMac and a low-end spec Mac Pro. But we shall see. I'm just glad they got *something* out to satisfy the pro market to some extent.
     
  9. fathergll macrumors 6502a

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    #9
    A lot longer than that. I guarantee you no one will have the next gen Mac Pro in their possession before Dec 2018. I have my doubts it will even be revealed in 2018 because the iMac Pros won't even start shipping until Dec 2017. Apple won't release any Mac Pro that isn't a innovated design like the 2013 one. They thrive on press with new products.


    iMac Pro serves two functions, It gets some Mac Pro users off of their backs and also gets Apple off he hook for coming out with a new iMac design in 2017(They've been using the same basic iMac since 2007 so I suspect they are still working on something very interesting). People have been speculating Apple was going to have a new iMac design back in 2015 and now it won't be until 2018 at the earliest.
     
  10. mavericks7913 thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #10
    I know Mac Pro is coming but do we really need

    Dual CPU?
    More RAMs more than 128gb?
    More PCIE slots?
    Internal expandable and upgradable?
    etc?

    At this point, I don't see why Mac Pro need those specs since there are only few programs require high performance.
     
  11. h9826790 macrumors 604

    h9826790

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    #11
    1) Apple never said that the coming 7,1 is an open system. Modular can still be a close system.

    2) 7,1 supposed can be upgrade internally. Anyway, iMac Pro has TB3 doesn't mean that Apple don't need to release any other computer. If this logic works, then all they need is just release a MacBook with TB3.

    3) lots of video stuff can utilise dual CPU. In fact, running few virtual machines at the same time can easily fully utilise more then 1 CPU and 128GB RAM. It's all depends on the workflow.

    I personally really hope that iMac Pro is a sign that Apple will make an open system Mac Pro again (with standard ports / slots). If the 7,1 still a close system. Then what's the point of marking another high end close system? Purely because Apple will provide the upgrade parts? Or better cooling?
     
  12. kschendel macrumors 6502a

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    #12
    That's exactly what's needed for terabyte scale analytic DBMS's, which is what I work on.

    Granted the market is not like the market for amateur photography fiddling, but it's there.
     
  13. Flint Ironstag macrumors 6502a

    Flint Ironstag

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    #13
    Must be trolling? I really hope so.
     
  14. Yahooligan macrumors 6502a

    Yahooligan

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    #14
    If you don't see the point or need for those specs then the Mac Pro is not for you, and that's perfectly OK. However, there are those that DO need those specs/features and it's silly to think that because you don't have those needs then nobody else does.

    Think of various 3D and animation render farms, post-production, etc. The most memory, cores, and GPUs that you can fit into each system the quicker you can get through the workloads.

    AI, machine learning, massive computations...memory, CPUs, GPUs...
     
  15. JesterJJZ macrumors 68020

    JesterJJZ

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    #15
    I need these specs. Editing and grading 8k projects on the iMac Pro will probably melt it.
     
  16. mavericks7913 thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #16
    Nope Im telling the current situation.
     
  17. Floris macrumors 68020

    Floris

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    #17
    Talk to different guys, here's a guy that based his info of what apple themselves said: 2018
     
  18. Yahooligan macrumors 6502a

    Yahooligan

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    #18
    I think you mean opinion, not situation. ;) The situation is a new Mac Pro is coming and it sounds like you don't need one.
     
  19. mavericks7913 thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #19
    Don't get me wrong, I do need it but there are some people being skeptical about customizable Mac Pro like custom build PC cause Apple is trying to focus on all in one computer instead of open system like Mac Pro 2010. In this case, I really doubt about Mac Pro 2018 with customizable case. What if Mac Pro comes out with limited customizing like Mac Pro 2013? I really demand to see Mac Pro 2018 like custom PC to upgrade and replace dual cpu, gpu, rams, pcie parts, and more. And No, I don't like iMac Pro for upgrading and expanding externally with TB3 which is the most ridiculous idea. If Apple do that, then they are making the same flaws from Mac Pro 2013.
     
  20. Yahooligan macrumors 6502a

    Yahooligan

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    #20
    Which is it? You're all over the place.
     
  21. jjjoseph, Jun 8, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2017

    jjjoseph macrumors 6502

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    #21
    My company gets a lot of walk ins, usually one person production companies that just have a few clients and 3 or 4 big jobs a year and help finish their projects. It's usually infomercial type videos, b to b and direct to consumer type stuff. Quality work but nothing for broadcast.

    IMHO this is exactly the demographic this computer is made for. I asked a guy yesterday if he would drop 5k to 7500k for a new iMac, even if it was super duper powerful. The guy laughed and laughed, then said no way, "why the hell would I do that! My Laptop works just fine for simple editing and isn't that why I come to you? I'm not going to spend that much on a computer, thats your job!"

    This scenario is not true for everyone and every small production company or freelancer, but what he said makes sense. If I was in his position I am not going to invest in high end gear, it's not cost effective, I'm going to buy the bare minimum computer to get the job done.

    And me, a guy who works in a high end post facility, would I buy an iMac Pro?
    No because it doesn't work in any of our workflows. We are all waiting for the Mac Pro.

    It can't be housed in a machine room, it uses AMD GPU's, it can't be upgraded after purchase, no PCI-E, Thunderbolt 3 is 1/4 speed of PCI-E, so no multiple eGPU's. It also might be super hot and super heavy and noisy. The only program it will excel at is Final Cut Pro X, which no pro's use anymore. It is an awkward to put in an edit bay since the all in one design forces it to be your primary monitor. To me it is like putting a rocket engine in a Prius. It's just weird..

    Granted Apple stopped talking to the pro community and asking for their input quite a long time ago, so my opinion means nothing to Apple, but I can't see Apple having record sales with these computers..
    --- Post Merged, Jun 8, 2017 ---
    Show some examples. Do you mean programs made by Apple or programs made by other people? We have an Autodesk Flame system that does 4k Compositing. It's minimum requirements are 3 Nvidia k6000 with minimum 2 XEON CPU's, it requires SAS attached SSD for 1200mb/s caching and that requires PCI-E, and a FIBRE network connect that requires PCI-D.. All these specs will double when they make an 8k model.

    If you are talking about email programs and word processing programs and even some browsers you are probably correct, but if your talking about Professional Applications, their will never be an end.

    4k will become 8k, then 16k then 32k. Virtual Reality will become Augmented Reality. Each leap in technology will require more and more horsepower..
     
  22. mavericks7913 thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #22
    What about networking rendering and sequencing rendering? People told me that computers dont need dual CPU since those rendering is a trend. Any thoughts?
     
  23. jjjoseph macrumors 6502

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    #23
    Name a specific program? I used to use Deadline for After Effects and NUKE rendering over a network. Each frame can be a single core operation. Say your rendering 10k frames of a project. Its broken up among different servers, then diff cores of each cpu, then diff cores..

    If your talking about MAYA or 3DMax, then it depends on the render engine. A lot of older render engines where one process at a time as it rendered, but that has changed dramatically and now we have a lot of different render options and even CUDA rendering.

    There are a lot of different technologies now for rendering and optimization.

    Can you be more specific? What programs? What workflows? Your statements are as vague as vague can be.
     
  24. Yahooligan macrumors 6502a

    Yahooligan

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    #24
    Exactly, and if we start talking about clustering then that's a whole other ball of wax. Some people may think a cluster means you get one big machine and work magically runs across all nodes in the cluster. The software you're using has to support clustering or running workloads on a cluster (Hadoop, etc), you still have the issue of workload distribution over the network and the inherent throughput/latency issues, and the issue of node density. Why have 10 small nodes and have to split the workload into chunks for 10 nodes when you can use fewer, more powerful nodes?

    I like my Intel NUC; 32GB, 1TB NVMe SSD, quad-core. Would I rather by 5 of these for $5,000 and get a total of 20 cores, 160GB memory, and 5TB of disk space spread across them where the only way to utilize all of them at once is to use software that can be clustered or would I rather spend $5,000 on a single 20-core (2x 10-core, whatever you like) box with the same amount of memory and disk space? That's a no-brainer, I'll take the single box so that I can easily utilize the hardware without requiring anything special.
     
  25. tuxon86 macrumors 65816

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    #25
    Those are only practical where there is suffisant telecom infrastructure. Try uploading to a rendering farm when you are in the middle of nowhere with only a bit starved satelite link if you even got that... And this is a common occurance in my field.
     

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