No More Contracts What Will You Do

[Deguello]

It's because you were using the mobile sharing plans. They were not a good deal from day one.

ATT has finally wised up and made it more affordable.

But we've compared the numbers before with other previous plans. The old mobile shares were not competitive

No, I wasn't. Because they weren't a good deal. This one is.

My iPhone was grandfathered unlimited, the wife's was a 5GB plan, and the two daughters' phones were 3GB plans. We were on a 700 minute, unlimited texting family plan with 4 separate data plans.

The total out the door on my last month on the previous plans was $289.58. On the new plan it was $158.82. (Wife's employee discount wiped out the taxes and fees plus a bit more.)

 

[Septembersrain]

I'll do the same as I've always done. I'm okay with paying full price. I do that anyways.

 

[aneftp]

No, I wasn't. Because they weren't a good deal. This one is.

My iPhone was grandfathered unlimited, the wife's was a 5GB plan, and the two daughters' phones were 3GB plans. We were on a 700 minute, unlimited texting family plan with 4 separate data plans.

The total out the door on my last month on the previous plans was $289.58. On the new plan it was $158.82. (Wife's employee discount wiped out the taxes and fees plus a bit more.)

When was the last time you used your 4 full subsidy upgrades?

 

[Deguello]

When was the last time you used your 4 full subsidy upgrades?

I never have.

I used one on the iPhone 5 which is about a year and a half old. The change is saving me from $18.75 to $25 a month from now until September, depending on how you want to discount to get to my current $15 a month service.

The wife's G3 is about a year and four months. About 8 months of the same savings. She previously had a phone through her employer, now we pay and they reimburse.

The daughter's phones will be one in May. These are their first smart phones. Over a year of those savings x 2.

 

[aneftp]

I never have.

I used one on the iPhone 5 which is about a year and a half old. The change is saving me from $18.75 to $25 a month from now until September, depending on how you want to discount to get to my current $15 a month service.

The wife's G3 is about a year and four months. About 8 months of the same savings. She previously had a phone through her employer, now we pay and they reimburse.

The daughter's phones will be one in May. These are their first smart phones. Over a year of those savings x 2.

Confided. U said u were paying for 4 data plans. But now say these are ur daughters first smart phones.

 

[Deguello]

Confided. U said u were paying for 4 data plans. But now say these are ur daughters first smart phones.

Yeah. They've had them since May and I've been paying for them since May. Is that confusing to you?

Edit:

My first smart phone was the 3GS.
My wife was on her employer's plan until November, 2012.
My daughters had dumb phones until May, 2013.

I've always had a data plan. We started paying for the wife's in November 2012. That makes two data plans. We started paying for the daughters' when they got smartphones in May, 2013. That makes 4 data plans on the bill since last May.

So, yes, I was paying for four data plans and, yes, these are my daughter's first smartphones. I'm not sure why you see a contradiction.

 

[aneftp]

Yeah. They've had them since May and I've been paying for them since May. Is that confusing to you?

You said u had 4 data plans. But u said your daughters are just getting their first smart phones.

So you which phones were you using for the four data lines? You only mentioned yourself and your wife.

Edit. Gotcha. Read your post.

Question. Since 3 of your 4 lines are not upgrade eligible.

Now if I spun the situation around and if you had 4 lines immediately subsidy elgible. Would you switch?

 

[Deguello]

You said u had 4 data plans. But u said your daughters are just getting their first smart phones.

So you which phones were you using for the four data lines? You only mentioned yourself and your wife.

I said, quote, "The daughter's phones will be one in May."

That means we bought them last May, so they will be one year old this May (in two months).

Nowhere did I say they "are just getting their first smart phones."

 

[aneftp]

I said, quote, "The daughter's phones will be one in May."

That means we bought them last May, so they will be one year old this May (in two months).

Nowhere did I say they "are just getting their first smart phones."

So 3 out of your 4 lines are not upgrade eligible.

The people who are getting the biggest bang for then buck are someone like a co worker who just upgraded 5 lines in the the past 3 months. She's making off like a bandit switching to the new mobile shares since she's barely 2-3 months into her subsidized contract.

For those who have 3-4 lines upgrade eligible. It's doesn't make much sense at this time.

 

[Deguello]

You said u had 4 data plans. But u said your daughters are just getting their first smart phones.

So you which phones were you using for the four data lines? You only mentioned yourself and your wife.

Edit. Gotcha. Read your post.

Question. Since 3 of your 4 lines are not upgrade eligible.

Now if I spun the situation around and if you had 4 lines immediately subsidy elgible. Would you switch?

Yes. The subsidy is less than the $25 per month per phone I save by being off contract.

For the sake of simplicity, let's say we had 4 x 16GB iPhones that were eligible for an immediate subsidy upgrade.

On Next, the cost for a 16GB 5s on a 12 month plan would be $32.50 per phone. So, $32.50 times 20 (so we own the phones outright) would be $650, plus tax, so $703.63 here.

On subsidy, the cost would be 24 x $25 (the difference in service cost between the subsidy price and the Next price for the length of the contract), or $600. Add $199 plus tax for the subsidized phone, $215.42, to get $815.52. Add $36 for the activation fee, $851.42.

$703.63 x 4 = $2,814.42 total phone cost on Next.
$851.42 x 4 = $3,405.68 total phone cost on subsidy.

The four phones would be $591 cheaper to own outright on Next than on subsidy.

 

[aneftp]

Yes. The subsidy is less than the $25 per month per phone I save by being off contract.

For the sake of simplicity, let's say we had 4 x 16GB iPhones that were eligible for an immediate subsidy upgrade.

On Next, the cost for a 16GB 5s on a 12 month plan would be $32.50 per phone. So, $32.50 times 20 (so we own the phones outright) would be $650, plus tax, so $703.63 here.

On subsidy, the cost would be 24 x $25 (the difference in service cost between the subsidy price and the Next price for the length of the contract), or $600. Add $199 plus tax for the subsidized phone, $215.42, to get $815.52. Add $36 for the activation fee, $851.42.

$703.63 x 4 = $2,814.42 total phone cost on Next.
$851.42 x 4 = $3,405.68 total phone cost on subsidy.

The four phones would be $591 cheaper to own outright on Next than on subsidy.

Again you have failed to recognize how terribly overprice mobile share plans are for people who have grandfathered plans.

$69.99 (2 lines). $9,99 extra line.

$90 for 4 lines. 700 min. With any mobile and rollover plus 10 home lines Essentially unlimited calling. Plus $25/2gb data x 4 plus $30 texting minus $(18.75 x 4 lines per month).

That comes out to $145/month adjusted for subsidy. Remember you can get the iPhone for much cheaper than $199. So the subsidy could be even more than $450.

Compared to $160/month new mobile sharing.

So you are still paying $15/more a month with the new "value mobile sharing plans"

The difference is even greater if you don't care for smartphones and just want flip phones where you aren't required to pay the $25/month data plans.

And for those with unlimited data plans it's an even worst deal.

 

[Deguello]

Again you have failed to recognize how terribly overprice mobile share plans are for people who have grandfathered plans.

$69.99 (2 lines). $9,99 extra line.

$90 for 4 lines. 700 min. With any mobile and rollover plus 10 home lines Essentially unlimited calling. Plus $25/2gb data x 4 plus $30 texting minus $(18.75 x 4 lines per month).

That comes out to $145/month adjusted for subsidy. Remember you can get the iPhone for much cheaper than $199. So the subsidy could be even more than $450.

Compared to $160/month new mobile sharing.

So you are still paying $15/more a month with the new "value mobile sharing plans"

The difference is even greater if you don't care for smartphones and just want flip phones where you aren't required to pay the $25/month data plans.

And for those with unlimited data plans it's an even worst deal.

You asked if I would switch. You didn't ask me to answer the question for every person in every circumstance.

I'm not trying to give the right answer for every situation. I'm giving the right answer for our situation. If it doesn't make sense for people with flip phones, people with flip phones shouldn't do it. That doesn't change the fact that it does make sense for some people.

Where can you get a new 5s iPhone for less than $199?

Maybe people with unlimited data plans who use a ton of data shouldn't change, either. Even then, it depends on circumstances and how much other people in their pool would use.

I don't know where you got the impression that I claimed switching to Next and/or Mobile Share was the right answer for every mobile phone user in the country. Certainly not from anything I actually wrote.

Did I make a math or logic error in my post laying out the costs?

 

[deeddawg]

You didn't ask me to answer the question for every person in every circumstance.

I think he's trying to make a case that AT&T has pulled the wool over everyone's eyes and is actually extracting more money for data/voice services from everyone's pockets.

Personally, I think he's arguing an irrelevant point. What is relevant to me (and most of us) is that I'm sending AT&T less money each month and will continue to do so given my upgrade and usage patterns.

For some people the new plans aren't a good deal. For others they are. All depends on the specific situations.

 

[Deguello]

I think he's trying to make a case that AT&T has pulled the wool over everyone's eyes and is actually extracting more money for data/voice services from everyone's pockets.

Personally, I think he's arguing an irrelevant point. What is relevant to me (and most of us) is that I'm sending AT&T less money each month and will continue to do so given my upgrade and usage patterns.

For some people the new plans aren't a good deal. For others they are. All depends on the specific situations.

I'm not sure what he is trying to argue. That some people are better off not switching to Next or Mobile Share? I must've missed wherever someone said everyone would be better off by switching.

Our cell bill went from nearly $300 a month to about $160. I gave up "unlimited" data and, theoretically, we have a smaller total data pool. Practically, the smaller data pool is enough, since we had to overbuy on individual plans, and is more efficient.

Once Mobile Share dropped the price to $15 for off-contract service, it made sense for us. If it doesn't make sense for others, they shouldn't switch plans.

 

[mantan]

Seems like AT&T has put together a fairly reasonable model to move to off the subsidized model and join the rest of the world where people actually pay for their phones.

By changing the data rate for 'service only' smartphones and throwing the financial incentive of moving everyone to 'service only' pricing with the switch (even if they bought a subsidized phone 3 months ago), they made it a cost effective deal.)

The people who will get sticker shock when they upgrade will be the ones who truly thought their $700 device cost $200.

As nefarious as the NEXT program is made out to be some people, it's probably the best model that would fly in the US to get people to buy their own phones.

1. It's no money down (you know us Americans don't want to layout money for stuff)
2. You have the flexibility of trading out early...(you know for the must upgrade NOW crowd)
3. You can still sell your own device if you wait out the term. (for the 'I'm gonna use the funds from my old phone to buy a new one crowd)
4. You don't get hit with the same $30 usage fee for an 'out of contract' phone that you had before.

Some of people who think AT&T has some nefarious plot to trick them into a significantly higher bill are the same ones who think they had a constitutional right to lifetime unlimited data at $30 a month, the ability to upgrade before they honored their contract and get any fee waived 'because I'm been a customers for X years.'

Now everyone still has to figure out if it works for them. If you're a family that upgrades multiple lines at the same time...it'll cost you more. Or if you're a light user and/or have a mixture of feature/smart phones, it may not make sense to change either. But for a large part of the customer base, it's a nice fair way to move from the subsidized model. I'd LOVE to hear someone come up with a better plan. (other than dropping the service only fee to $10...which is where it probably should be.)

It's a HELLUVA lot better than the program Verizon has doing these days.

 

[sage31]

Everyone is acting like if you utilize this new pricing, you're not eligible for a subsidized upgrade in the future. However, I just checked my account (after switching to the new pricing), and I can still get a subsidized phone. It's just that it's $40/month instead of $25/month. So you're paying an extra $15/month for the subsidy, which is $18.75/month ($450/24). (Makes more sense for me than other options due to how I get reimbursed at work.)

Did I miss something?

 

[deeddawg]

3. You can still sell your own device if you wait out the term. (for the 'I'm gonna use the funds from my old phone to buy a new one crowd)

Or even pay it off early... (Yes, I know this goes against the typical American consumerism... )

Now everyone still has to figure out if it works for them.

You have much more faith in the analytic capacity of the typical consumer than I do, sir.

----------

Everyone is acting like if you utilize this new pricing, you're not eligible for a subsidized upgrade in the future. However, I just checked my account (after switching to the new pricing), and I can still get a subsidized phone.

Yes, there is much misinformation floating around.

For the 10GB mobile share plans the subsidized upgrade is a non-starter since you end up paying $800 for a $650 phone due to losing the higher $25/mo discount.

 

[sage31]

Yes, there is much misinformation floating around.

For the 10GB mobile share plans the subsidized upgrade is a non-starter since you end up paying $800 for a $650 phone due to losing the higher $25/mo discount.

Correct, it definitely doesn't make sense for the 10GB plans, but for those with the lower data tier plans, it's still an option. Thanks for the reassurance! I really thought I was missing something.

 

[Deguello]

If you're a family that upgrades multiple lines at the same time...it'll cost you more.

I don't think it will.

Do you have an example/some math that shows this?

 

[mantan]

I don't think it will.

Do you have an example/some math that shows this?

The average monthly cost for a NEXT upgrade will cost more than what customers spent per month under the current plan. But...

1) There is no money down, if you consider the $200-$400 that was spent initially over the cost of the term, the monthly spend gets a lot closer. For example, if you buy a 32 gig phone under the NEXT 12, the $299 you would have spent upfront would equate to $14.95/month over the 20 months of the plan.-

2) If users covert now, they will likely save enough money to offset the increase when they upgrade.

So if a family upgrades to 4 of the latest/greatest handsets every September, their monthly spend will likely be more than they are paying under their current mobile share plan. But when considering the factors above, it's not a huge difference.

The many customers will lose sight of is the fact they have to buy their phones in the future. Some people will expect to walk, pay $199 and keep paying the $15/month rate they have now.

 

[Deguello]

The average monthly cost for a NEXT upgrade will cost more than what customers spent per month under the current plan. But...

1) There is no money down, if you consider the $200-$400 that was spent initially over the cost of the term, the monthly spend gets a lot closer. For example, if you buy a 32 gig phone under the NEXT 12, the $299 you would have spent upfront would equate to $14.95/month over the 20 months of the plan.-

2) If users covert now, they will likely save enough money to offset the increase when they upgrade.

So if a family upgrades to 4 of the latest/greatest handsets every September, their monthly spend will likely be more than they are paying under their current mobile share plan. But when considering the factors above, it's not a huge difference.

The many customers will lose sight of is the fact they have to buy their phones in the future. Some people will expect to walk, pay $199 and keep paying the $15/month rate they have now.

Yeah, if four people upgrade every year, it will cost more. That's not really apples-to-apples with a two year contract, though.

Bottom line, the Next programs charges exactly what a phone would cost if you bought it straight from Apple. There is no markup at all. Unless you believe that AT&T was over subsidizing, the new plans are no worse than the old for that family scenario. Given that AT&T's subsidized service charges were higher than what was actually required to offset the cost of the phone (including the initial purchase price), the new plans are better for that family scenario on a two year upgrade cycle.

 

[rui no onna]

$90 for 4 lines. 700 min. With any mobile and rollover plus 10 home lines Essentially unlimited calling. Plus $25/2gb data x 4 plus $30 texting minus $(18.75 x 4 lines per month).

That comes out to $145/month adjusted for subsidy. Remember you can get the iPhone for much cheaper than $199. So the subsidy could be even more than $450.

Except he doesn't have 4x $25/2GB. He has:

unlimited (his): $30
5GB (wife): $45
3GB x2 (kids): $60
Total Data Cost: $135

Total Cost (700 min + unlimited msg): $255/mo before taxes
2-year Cost: $6,120
Plan Cost minus subsidy ($450 x 4 = $1,800): $4,320 or effectively $180/mo

Mobile Share 10GB Value with 4 lines: $160/mo

Even if he upgrades all 4 phones every 2 years, that's still a total $480 savings. Mind, this is all under the assumption that all 4 phones will be an iPhone or similar top of the line model ergo $450 subsidy. If he gets something like the Nexus 5, Moto X or Moto G, that's quite significant savings, too.

AT&T Next is not for everyone. It's definitely not for someone on the 700 minute rollover plan and 5 iPhones on $15/200MB. However, it does have the potential to save a lot of folks money.

 

[aneftp]

Yeah, if four people upgrade every year, it will cost more. That's not really apples-to-apples with a two year contract, though.

Bottom line, the Next programs charges exactly what a phone would cost if you bought it straight from Apple. There is no markup at all. Unless you believe that AT&T was over subsidizing, the new plans are no worse than the old for that family scenario. Given that AT&T's subsidized service charges were higher than what was actually required to offset the cost of the phone (including the initial purchase price), the new plans are better for that family scenario on a two year upgrade cycle.

Att and other carriers have been over subsidizing lines 2-5 for years. They all got caught with their pants down. No one would blink with lines 2-5. Because while those lines generated only $10/month extra. Those same lines could have gotten $450 subsidies.

It's line 1 that has been under subsdized. High end phones should be free for those in 2 year contracts.

These next edge jump programs are a backdoor away from trying to get away from the $9.99 add on lines that still get $450 subsidies.

 

[rui no onna]

Att and other carriers have been over subsidizing lines 2-5 for years. They all got caught with their pants down. No one would blink with lines 2-5. Because while those lines generated only $10/month extra. Those same lines could have gotten $450 subsidies.

It's line 1 that has been under subsdized. High end phones should be free for those in 2 year contracts.

These next edge jump programs are a backdoor away from trying to get away from the $9.99 add on lines that still get $450 subsidies.

That only works if those extra lines are basic phones only. If everyone on the plan has a smartphone, you're required to pay a $25 per line minimum ($10 add-on + $15/200MB). Yes, still significantly cheaper than Mobile Share but practically useless if you actually use cellular data.

I've done the numbers and breakeven point for 4 lines is at $235/mo on the old plans (upgrade fee not included in the calculations since you can have those waived). It basically boils down to this, if you pay less than $235/mo on the old grandfathered plans and don't get any data overages, then the old plans are better. If your bill is more than $235/mo and combined data usage for the family is 10GB or less, then you can save money by going with the new Mobile Share Value plans.

Here are the breakeven points for the MS Value 10GB plan depending on the number of lines:
2: $167.50
3: $201.25
4: $235.00
5: $268.75