No non-sense Windows / Mac Lossless Video Codec?

Discussion in 'Digital Video' started by Aea, Jul 25, 2007.

  1. Aea macrumors 6502a

    Aea

    Joined:
    May 23, 2007
    Location:
    Denver, Colorado
    #1
    I have a bit of an interesting problem, I have video files encoded in a proprietary format known as fraps, and I need to get these to a point where they're editable in OS X. The most important part is that they must be loss-less, as I will be doing all my editing on the OS X side of things. I'm using virtual hub, and I tried the "uncompressed" setting, but that ballooned a 3GB file to an enormous 22GB file, which is really unacceptable.

    Oh, and preferably free, I tried x264, but none of the GUIs for it work, and as far as I know its not lossless, I need something that's entirely lossless, but without creating 22GB files for 4 minutes of video.

    Thanks :)
     
  2. bigbossbmb macrumors 68000

    bigbossbmb

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2004
    Location:
    Pasadena/Hollywood
    #2
    try opening it with MPEGstreamclip (google it)... and using that to convert it to a QT movie using the DV codec (or something less compressed if you are so inclined).
     
  3. waricle macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2007
    Location:
    Sunny Queensland. Australia
    #3
    Ive got sort of the same problem only I am starting with mpeg 1 and trying to edit it in imovie, export to quicktime, then to mpeg streamclip and finally converting it back to mpeg 1 in video converter - for use on a windows server without loss on the process. But I always seems to lose resolution when being played back in windows. Is there an application that will allow me to do it properely?
     
  4. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    Nov 3, 2005
    Location:
    UK
    #4
    Lossless video formats are generally huge, you want to edit your project using the large file and then once you are finished compress it to a smaller format which isn't lossless.

    MPEG4 will play (well) on any player except Windows Media Player, or you could use H.264/x264 which is similarly supported. If you want to let Windows users play the video without having additional software then you'll need to convert to .wmv, though that will give subpar performance to Mac/Linux users.
     
  5. waricle macrumors newbie

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    Jul 10, 2007
    Location:
    Sunny Queensland. Australia
    #5
    I need the windows playback for a digital advertising clips in a movie cinema so the quality needs to be as high as possible- what do you reccommend is the best way to go starting from either mpeg-1 from a sony digital handycam and /or jpeg stills and finishing in a windows suitable format?
     
  6. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #6
    What software will they have for playback?
     
  7. waricle macrumors newbie

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    Jul 10, 2007
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    Sunny Queensland. Australia
    #7
    I,m not sure but all the files that are used on the server are mpeg- either mpeg1 or mpeg2.
    I will find out
     
  8. cdarlington1 macrumors regular

    cdarlington1

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    Jun 6, 2006
    Location:
    St. John's, Newfoundland
    #8
    lossless

    animation codec...lossless but vbr...and free...I use uncompressed 4:2:2 QT but file sizes are huge...

    H264, Mpeg4, DV are all compressed codecs...
     
  9. Aea thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Aea

    Joined:
    May 23, 2007
    Location:
    Denver, Colorado
    #9
    That's exactly what I plan on doing, but when I used the default "no compression" codec on Virtual Dub it took a 3GB lossless file to 22GB, I'll try MPEGStreamclip, as I understand it will still do some compression, but hopefully on the highest settings it won't be too bad. The reason I *need* lossless is because I'm recording from a game with a very thin and crisp UI, compressing more then once will have a major quality drop. I wish that fraps had a OSX codec, but unfortunately it doesn't.
     
  10. djrhettmc macrumors newbie

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    Jul 26, 2007
  11. Aea thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Aea

    Joined:
    May 23, 2007
    Location:
    Denver, Colorado
    #11
    Crashes, right off the bat as soon as I load the video. So does QT. I really need to find a good codec to do this :(
     
  12. waricle macrumors newbie

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    Jul 10, 2007
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    Sunny Queensland. Australia
    #12
    The theatre server uses windows xp proffessional
     
  13. FargoRoss macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2007
    #13
    If you want truly lossless, your filesize is going to be that big, period. if you want a high quality compression to edit in FCP, or wherever, exporting as DV50 (or DVCPRO50) will give you a 4:2:2 color space, and will look much better than a basic DV codec.
    Otherwise i've heard people making it work using an animation codec.

    Basically you want to stay away from any formats that are used for quicktime distribution on the web and such.. mpeg4, x264, etc.. not all of those are truly editable video. stick with a compression that is a high quality tape format.

    -Ross
     
  14. Aea thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Aea

    Joined:
    May 23, 2007
    Location:
    Denver, Colorado
    #14
    I'm totally clueless, but searching on google found lots of results saying that DV50 is just DivX, I have a problem with divx working, at least within virtual dub, complains about improper dimensions, video is recorded at 1440 x 900. I also tried xviD, it encoded fine, but the entire image is desaturated (playing the fraps encoded file yielded proper colors), I know that divx doesn't have this problem (encoded before on old machine), but I really don't want to change the dimensions, although I'm probably doing something wrong. I will look into the other one you've recomended though, I guess lossless isn't a complete requirement (although it would be nice, something that compresses well but still lossless, like corePNG, although I can't even get to their website, looks like it's dead.), but something very high quality is.
     
  15. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #15
    DVCPro50 is a Pansonic codec that's basically double pumped DV (definetly not DivX :)). Unfortunately I don't think there is a DVCPro codec for Windows.

    What are the dimensions of the file you are trying to work with?


    Lethal
     
  16. bobbyn macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2007
    #16


    I'd have to agree with some of the other postings... However, the fact is that you will never end up with something better than what you started off with. Unless you are generating new graphics (i.e. filters or motion graphics) you are not really creating/rendering video clips any better than what you started out with when you edit.

    Use a CODEC that is not too far from what your end product is going to be. If it's for DVD, mpeg is fine as well as sorenson 3. Run a few tests and it out to see what's better for you.

    I recommend using MPEG-4 because it's more universal than H.264 and so on. I also allows for the best sharpness and color PER megabyte. Just know that even IF you use an "uncompressed" codec, unless the video was captured as such, you will be wasting your hard drive space.

    Before anyone quotes me, Id like to say I have NOT mentioned anything about upconversion or anything like that. I'm just talking about CODECS.

    I have a blog that I use to talk about some video codec tools and whatnot.


    http://bobbynishimura.com/off-the-r...log/E6100CA5-71BA-47E3-B947-83C423446FCF.html
     
  17. ChrisA macrumors G4

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    Jan 5, 2006
    Location:
    Redondo Beach, California
    #17
    MPEG is a horrible format for editing. There is no way to edit MPEG without losing quality. The problem is that mpeg uses "key frames" which is just a still frame and then "differences" for some number of frames. When you cut the video the editor must create a new key frame at the cut point and this introduces loss in a big way. But worse, all the differences must now be re-computed from the new key frame. No matter what software you have the information is just not there and can never be reconstructed. Your only option is to record in a better format. MPEG was designed for distribution to an end user not for use as a working copy in post production.

    OK so you are stuck with your mpeg source. What to do? The best thing I've figured out is to get a DV camera and plug it into something that can play your mpeg media. Record the data onto DV tape. DV has much better resolution and less compress artifacts then mpeg or DVD. The little miniDV cams really do a good job of trans-coding to DV. Then do all you edit work in DV format. Finally when you are all done use a _quality_ compression program to encode the final result to mpeg.
     

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