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No PC Laptop rivals the MacBook Pro's ... of course it's worth the wait!

entatlrg

entatlrg

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Mar 2, 2009
3,385
6
Waterloo & Georgian Bay, Canada
It's interesting reading some posts from people disappointed there's no MBP updates yet and in turn are going to buy a PC notebook .... for better / more up to date spec's.

But, why? I can't think of a PC even with better spec's or more ports or whatever that is overall 'better' to use. Sure, maybe some are better on paper -but- do you really even notice it for 95% of the tasks most people do.

If you aren't going to buy a MBP, what are you going to buy, a Latitude, Thinkpad, HP? They're nowhere near the quality of the MBP's from a day to day user experience, keyboard, screen quality, build quality, weight etc, there is no rival to the MBP in the PC world...

After using Thinkpad's and Latitude's for years and now owning a number of Mac's there's no way I'd ever buy a new released PC over a MBP that hasn't been updated for 8 months, to do so would be a major downgrade, imo. Unless I'm missing something, there's no new pc notebook yet that's a reasonable alternative, not even the new T510/410's or the Latitude Z's, I'd take the current MBP hands down even though it's 8 months since an update. All this isn't considering the OS of course, add that in and it's an easy decision I'd think?
 
The Sony Vaio Z is every bit the build quality of the Macbook Pro's and the Asus UL series continue to push the extremes of design/performance/aesthetics in laptops.
 
I bought the ASUS UL80Vt a few months ago when my 3 year old Sony VAIO died. Despite the pretty pictures, the UL80Vt is a nightmare (aesthetically). The lid is brushed aluminum, and the interior of the laptop is glossy black plastic. While it looks fine when you take it out of the box (though I personally hate glossy plastic), use it for a few hours and there will be fingerprints and smudges EVERYWHERE. Then I started experiencing build quality issues - the right palm rest creaked, the front edge of the laptop came slightly apart when pressure was applied and was quite sharp. Finally, three months after buying it, my hard drive failed. I've now sent it in for repairs and will be selling it as soon as I get it back. Luckily I've received an excellent offer so that I am actually making a profit on it.

But as my first ever experience with ASUS, I am very disappointed. I will never buy anything made by ASUS again, if I can help it.
 
If you're going to count 'build quality' in, it's hard to say whether a Thinkpad or MBP is built better. A Thinkpad is like a tank, it's able to take lots of abuse such as tossing it around and pouring orange juice in it and it'll still work. The MBP may be able to withstand more damage compared to cheap plastic laptops, but it's nowhere near the durability of a Thinkpad.

Also, with regards to the Vaio Z and the MBP, the Vaio Z completely beats the entire Mac notebook lineup. The best model (VPCZ11Z9E) comes configured with a Core i7-620M processor and Nvidia 330M, and a 1920x1080 resolution on a 13" screen. All this, and yet it only weights 1.45kg. Even the MBA which is completely out of the Vaio Z's league in hardware is heavier than it at 1.65kg. (oh, and the Vaio Z can be configured with an internal Blu-Ray drive)

With it's carbon fibre casing, I'm pretty sure it can withstand a hit just as well, if not better than the unibody Macbooks.

So, in short, it's more powerful than a Macbook Pro 17" yet lighter than a Macbook Air, while having a similar build quality.
 
entatlrg said:
If you aren't going to buy a MBP, what are you going to buy, a Latitude, Thinkpad, HP? They're nowhere near the quality of the MBP's from a day to day user experience, keyboard, screen quality, build quality, weight etc, there is no rival to the MBP in the PC world...
Click to expand...

If you ever owned a thinkpad you would know that Thinkpads have the best laptop keyboard. Also I own a Thinkpad T60 and a uMBP. I use my laptop every day on the move. When I dropped thinkpad nothing happened, just a minor scratch. But on uMBP i have an ugly dent from a 20cm fall(in a protection sleeve).

New T510 and W510(core i5 i7) have at least as good screen as current MBPs. Thinkpad T60 had an IPS screen. The first mac ever to rival that screen might be iPad.

I havent used Dell od HP, but please leave Thinkpads out of this, or at least do some research before you start critisizing.
 
Apple hardware is nice, but I really only buy it for Mac OS X. If I could run Mac OS X flawlessly on a $500-$600 generic laptop I'd do it in a heartbeat. It would run just as well too - you can get $600 laptops with C2D, 2GB RAM, the whole nine yards - the same major specs as the bottom-end MBP at half the cost. However, upping the processor to Core i5 and the RAM to 4GB (which I suspect the next update will) puts it in ~$800 territory. Still less expensive to go generic, but no longer by the ridiculous 2:1 margin.

With regard to the build quality, if the generic is half the cost it only has to last at least half as long to be more cost effective in the long run. Plus, upgrading every year/year-and-a-half keeps your technology more current.
 
Damn Sony Vaio Z looks bloody sweet!

ooh and with this post I shed the newbie tag :)
 
cathyy said:
If you're going to count 'build quality' in, it's hard to say whether a Thinkpad or MBP is built better. A Thinkpad is like a tank, it's able to take lots of abuse such as tossing it around and pouring orange juice in it and it'll still work. The MBP may be able to withstand more damage compared to cheap plastic laptops, but it's nowhere near the durability of a Thinkpad.

Also, with regards to the Vaio Z and the MBP, the Vaio Z completely beats the entire Mac notebook lineup. The best model (VPCZ11Z9E) comes configured with a Core i7-620M processor and Nvidia 330M, and a 1920x1080 resolution on a 13" screen. All this, and yet it only weights 1.45kg. Even the MBA which is completely out of the Vaio Z's league in hardware is heavier than it at 1.65kg. (oh, and the Vaio Z can be configured with an internal Blu-Ray drive)

With it's carbon fibre casing, I'm pretty sure it can withstand a hit just as well, if not better than the unibody Macbooks.

So, in short, it's more powerful than a Macbook Pro 17" yet lighter than a Macbook Air, while having a similar build quality.
Click to expand...

You may have just won me over. I never truly appreciated my VAIO until I bought an ASUS. I guess whichever of the two (MBP or VAIO Z) comes out first will be the one I buy.
 
entatlrg said:
It's interesting reading some posts from people disappointed there's no MBP updates yet and in turn are going to buy a PC notebook .... for better / more up to date spec's.

But, why? I can't think of a PC even with better spec's or more ports or whatever that is overall 'better' to use. Sure, maybe some are better on paper -but- do you really even notice it for 95% of the tasks most people do.

If you aren't going to buy a MBP, what are you going to buy, a Latitude, Thinkpad, HP? They're nowhere near the quality of the MBP's from a day to day user experience, keyboard, screen quality, build quality, weight etc, there is no rival to the MBP in the PC world...

After using Thinkpad's and Latitude's for years and now owning a number of Mac's there's no way I'd ever buy a new released PC over a MBP that hasn't been updated for 8 months, to do so would be a major downgrade, imo. Unless I'm missing something, there's no new pc notebook yet that's a reasonable alternative, not even the new T510/410's or the Latitude Z's, I'd take the current MBP hands down even though it's 8 months since an update. All this isn't considering the OS of course, add that in and it's an easy decision I'd think?
Click to expand...

+1 I have friends bragging to me all the time about their new speced out PCs but I could care less. If it doesn't have OSX on it I don't care much for it.

And as for Thinkpads, no clue why people like them. Trash IMO. I get a ton broken every day I have to fix. (Ok maybe not a ton but at least 2)
 
yeh, the new vaio z > any of the mbp's range. hell, it's a 13" screen!

i'm not in the price range though unfortunately. (not in aus anyway)

the new asus ul(jt) series look very impressive spec wise but if they are of any resemblance to the current ul(vt) build quality then i would NEVER waste my money on such a machine.

in store, it was possibly the worst built laptop i'd personally witnessed.

sony's are nice though. it would be mac or sony for me. i'm a low end 13" consumer and i have to say that at the moment the new sony S series is much better than the current MBP 13" low end model.

when the new MBP gets refreshed and it's not better than the low end S series, i'm not sure i want to buy mac.

why don't they just not rip us off and give us what we are paying for. i.e. match other notebooks!
 
fitto13 said:
why don't they just not rip us off and give us what we are paying for. i.e. match other notebooks!
Click to expand...

Because Apple actually spends money on R&D. How about Sony spends some money to innovate their chassis?
 
cathyy said:
If you're going to count 'build quality' in, it's hard to say whether a Thinkpad or MBP is built better. A Thinkpad is like a tank, it's able to take lots of abuse such as tossing it around and pouring orange juice in it and it'll still work. The MBP may be able to withstand more damage compared to cheap plastic laptops, but it's nowhere near the durability of a Thinkpad.
Click to expand...

Well, I have a Thinkpad W500 (my work laptop) and a Unibody Macbook (the "collector's" edition) as my personal laptop. I'd say the Macbook is way more solid. I have dropped it several times and it is still as good as new. Whereas the Thinkpad is just a few month's old and already creaks and shakes, and it's DVD drive doesn't stay shut. And it hasn't even been dropped. Maybe elbowed a few times while in my backpack, when I was commuting to work on the bus.

simpleton said:
If you ever owned a thinkpad you would know that Thinkpads have the best laptop keyboard. Also I own a Thinkpad T60 and a uMBP. I use my laptop every day on the move. When I dropped thinkpad nothing happened, just a minor scratch. But on uMBP i have an ugly dent from a 20cm fall(in a protection sleeve).
Click to expand...

I prefer my Macbook's keyboard. And while the Thinkpad has a higher resolution, my Macbook beats it hands down for clarity and brightness. The Thinkpad does have better viewing angles, though.
 
hahahaha, almost agree but........

1st older style Macbook Pro, IMO the keyboard was shockingly poor and I had to have the power board changed on it in under a year and that was a mature product design!!
Then got my unibody for the better keyboard, but I only accepted the third one I got, first one had lots of lovely finger prints BEHIND the glass screen, second was the same and if I remember had some fluff behind the screen, third one was fine but the backlight leakage is crap. It's got worst over the year but has settle down. Very poor build quality for a machine costing over £1600 or more.

So whilst I would agree the thing feels likes solid granite, it does have some weak spots. You've also got to like Mac OS and not game. I tried Parallels 5 and the poor machine still can't play Crysis too well bless. Mac Pro's can, if I use bootcamp I can but that's a pain in the backside.

But, I would have to argue that the Alienware range are good solid build quality and if you game or need the power to run software they are hard to beat too.
 
scottness said:
The current MBP specs suck, but it still runs OSX. Easily. I think there's something valuable in that alone.
Click to expand...

My dell mini 10v does too ;) Sadly I use my macbook pro like once a week now because of it. (Taking a macbook pro to the bad side of town is asking for it... and I love not caring if i get scratches or damage something that's 250$)

But the key to macs is that you buy them to run mac os I agree. If you planned to run windows from the start, there are much better options. I do wish they would bump the res up on the 13 inch and give me discrete graphics.
 
Its not just the hardware but OSX too. I've used Windoze for 12 years before switching to a Mac in 2007, it was an otherworldly transformation !
 
fitto13 said:
why don't they just not rip us off and give us what we are paying for. i.e. match other notebooks!
Click to expand...

You realize what you're asking here right? Apple is about making profit on hardware... and boatloads of it. That's why the iPad costs 499 for 220$ worth of parts.

Sony sold the PS3 at major loss (~200$) at launch. That would be like them selling the ipad at 149$ to gain major market share... which would actually probably work.

The best part of old hardware to apple is that it's cheap. And if you can still sell it to people and have hordes of people defend you for it, while raking in the profit, the more power to apple. It's part of being a luxury brand. ie You will never see people complain when they pick up the 2300$ prada purse that's made probably out of 50$ worth of materials in a factory in china by children :p

And honestly don't knock IBM's laptops. The keyboards are still things that people swear by. And as for reliability

http://www.squaretrade.com/htm/pdf/SquareTrade_laptop_reliability_1109.pdf

It shows that premium laptops (surprise have less problems than cheap laptops) And since apple only sells premium laptops and no entry level or netbook level ones, they should have a low failure rate.

But oddly if you look at it... apple is 4th... behind.. Sony, Toshiba, and ASUS.
Now granted... Dell, Lenovo, ACER, Gateway... and hell HP are behind (and in HP's case catastrophically bad... why the heck would you even consider an HP in this case after seeing the numbers)
 
Interesting that you consider the T510 so inferior. I'd have to agree it's no MBP, but I was looking at it as an alternative. I'm going to need a notebook soon and i7 is a must. Check out my attached screenshot.. these T510's can be really cheap after discounts and nicely equipped.

The biggest problem with the T510 is the video card... it's total crap. I'm shocked they still use such low end video cards. Borderline deal breaker for me. This Lenovo deal ends on the 16th. Hopefully we get some substantial new rumors about the MBP's before then!
 

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The Sony Z is an example of what potential a 13 inch laptops are capable of in the year twenty-ten. And it's not just a concept - the thing's coming out in March already!
I don't like how Apple's class of products caters for specific markets.
Take for example the current lineup of portables:
The MacBook only has basic connectivity thus crippling options towards those who may wish to cart around a firewire 800 based external drive and peripherals or similar;
The MacBook Pro 13" is hardly a 'Pro' machine since it too sports few ports (the combined audio in/out jack is very bad for musicians) and has the glossy screen with no option for matt. They are currently using a moderate C2D chip (the 2.53Ghz model), but looking at what Sony is capable of shoving into the 13' form factor, I would love to see the 'pro' status of this machine be revived back to 'PowerBook G4 12 inch' glory (for those who dont remember, the PowerBook G4 12' was the fastest laptop Apple produced given its size at the time. Competitors back in 2004 didn't even have a product that matched this class of computer);
The MacBook Pro 15" is aimed at the prosumer. It is the most capable Mac out there that is big enough to carry around and features the most ports - even though that still means only two USB ports. Heck some netbooks have three USB ports, eSata port AND a multi card reader. But the MacBook Pro perfectly suits students as well as professionals;
The MacBook Pro 17" caters a small minority of power users. But look at some of the specs of similarly sized Windows computers and boy do they have a dazzling array of technologies shoved into the 17inch form factor. Try dual graphics cards, dual disk drives, very good speakers (a small subwoofer on some models even) and a full keyboard with numpad. Sure these computers arn't solid like the 17" Mac but this model is supposed to represent Apple's most powerful advances in its technological arsenal.

Also shared amongst those computers is a lack of I/O, though Apple justifies it's butchering of ports and connectivity options to statistics; less than 8% of Mac users use the expresscard slot. But it is perhaps that 8% that are the most influential bunch of Mac enthusiasts who might wholeheartedly introduce Macs to their friends, family and workflow. And it is the hardcore, perhaps the most loyal fans of all, who press forth the the Mac platform and spread it across the mainstream.

There is an underwhelming sense of disappointment in today's Mac portable line with specs. Offcourse OS X is a given for greatness, but the company was once known to surpass the competition in both hardware and software solutions. It seemingly appears to be playing catch-up these days. I would hope that in either this upcoming revision, or before the year's end that Apple would allow more flexibility and options for each of the above mentioned machines to be fully customised by the user. Want a non-glossy super high res screen with SSD and the fastest i7 available as BTO option for the MacBook Pro 13"? Give them the choice. And here's hoping that the prebuilt baseline future Macs are impressive enough for the average human to walk out their local store with a state of the art computer bought at a compelling price.
 
As so many folks have already said, it's all about the operating system and I would say, the software.

With OS X, you get plenty of stuff in the iLife suite anyway when you buy a new Mac or to buy separately it's still very reasonable. iWork is *very* reasonably priced and and has replaced office for me 100%. When sending documents to PC / Windows people, I can export to MS office file formats, but perhaps even more usefully, I can natively export a PDF from iWork. This has been fantastic for me as I can get the benefits of nice presentation, fonts etc and guarantee the recipient will view the document exactly as I have designed it.

For Music people, logic is a bargain as well. Final Cut Studio is pricey but Express is still pretty powerful for the price. Then there's the wealth of third party software that's either free or very reasonably priced....Carbon copy cloner, superduper, Winclone to mention just a few.

Having come from a PC Windows background, I doubt I could be as productive or efficient for most things.
 
i have to agree that apple's products are by far superior to any other computers on the market today! as i am typing this reply from that 2004 12" PowerBook G4 1.33Ghz with 768MB of RAM (which should be a testament to apple's product quality) and its still my primary computer!

im hearing alot of people complain about how the aluminum laptops dent when you drop them! that is exactly what is supposed to happen! if the case doesn't dent then thats great, but if you drop any plastic laptop (to the breaking point) it will crack or break. the aluminum macbook pro's are meant to take the abuse and not crack or break! thats the benefit of aluminum! if you drop it, it will dent and not break!! personally i would rather have an aluminum cased laptop then any plastic cased laptop just for the simple fact that it may dent or get scratched when abused instead of having the case crack or the computer totally break!!

and for all of you people that think that the macbook pros' dont have enough usb ports, you forget that you can daisy chain up to 126 devices to a single port! so if you have 2 ports, that means that 250 possible devices, and if you have 3 ports (17"uMBP) thats over 400 usb devices that you can connect! stop whining about not having enough ports!!!

:apple::apple::apple:APPLE COMPUTERS ROCK:apple::apple::apple:
 
I think at 17 inches, the original poster is right. If you want a nice form factor, nothing comes very close.

however, in 13 inch. the sony Z has it beat...
also, what about adamo at 13 inches?
 
chrono1081 said:
+1 I have friends bragging to me all the time about their new speced out PCs but I couldn't care less. If it doesn't have OSX on it I don't care much for it.

And as for Thinkpads, no clue why people like them. Trash IMO. I get a ton broken every day I have to fix. (Ok maybe not a ton but at least 2)
Click to expand...

Corrected your post.
 
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