No PowerBook Updates Before 2005

[JFreak]

I thought 2004 was announced as the year of the portable or something to that effect. I haven't been impressed. No real revolutionary products have been put out this year.

no, it was 2003 that was touted as "the year of the laptop". oh yeah, we saw aluminum powerbooks finally in the 15" enclosure, too, but otherwise it just meant that apple now sells more laptops than desktops. steve is more excited about it than you and i

 

[earthtoandy]

That can't happen. They can't have a Rev B unless they have a Rev A first. So if they went straight to a Rev B, that would actually be the Rev A.


Now that I think about it, your probably werne't being serious, huh?

yeeeah.. that was a joke

 

[Dalriada]

I can probably agree that for some people there's not much difference...., the 12" PB still has
...vs. the 12" iBook

Is the display on the 12"PB now identical to the latest 12" iBook ? No advantage for the PB ?

 

[cb911]

well i'm not too surprised about this. the rate that things were going, it would only have been a speed bump, probablying only a few hundred MHz.

but the dual-core G4 was reported to only be ready for sampling, not production, early next year. makes you wonder, what Apple's going to do...

hopefully by next year there will be significant upgrades available, not just a speed bump.

 

[AidenShaw]

In all fairness, Aidan, I'm willing to concede that Microsoft has hit the 64-bit marketing point first. However, this single link is the only one with any credibility as being even remotely a consumer release of the operating system. The others are all enterprise level software, and probably priced to match that expectation.

Uh-oh, does this foreshadow another campaign like the G5 intro's "first 64-bit desktop computer" - a big lie unless you redefine the meaning of the word "desktop".

Will Apple announce the "first 64-bit desktop operating system" - and ignore the fact that Linux 64-bit desktops are shipping today, as well as the various UNIX and Windows releases?

As to "enterprise level" - don't overlook that you need to add $3720 (Dell) to $4650 (PM G5) of additional memory to actually *use* the chief feature of a 64-bit operating system - the ability for a single process to address more than 4 GiB of RAM in a flat address space. That price tag would surely eliminate most "consumer level" users!

Well, I certainly hope that their "true 64-bit source code that's been shipping for over 3 years" is better than their patchy, hole-ridden lack of security that they've been shipping since God only knows when.

The fact that code is older doesn't really prove anything except its age, and it certainly doesn't attest to any kind of value.

After all, Microsoft has been in the game about as long as Apple, and yet they've still clung to the same horrible security model the whole time, only just now getting to a point where they might even consider the possibility of altering it to escape the morass of viri, trojans, worms, exploits, and backdoors that they created for themselves.

Right, Apple's never had a security patch, and certainly wouldn't ship something with a buffer overflow bug so that simply looking at a picture file could allow a bad guy to take over your machine.

And I believe that you are wrong that the experience of shipping 64-bit operating systems for 3 years doesn't prove anything. With Windows 64-bit, you'll know that the core 64-bit functionality has had a lot of testing and refinement. With OS X, you'll be getting Version .0 of 64-bit code.

And, your comment "[MS] might even consider the possibility" is disingenuous. SP2 is proof that they not only considered, but in fact implemented and shipped some significant improvements to the security model.
______________________


Let's not get too far off on this tangent though - my argument is directed at the claim that Jobs said that OS X had a 1 to 3 year head start over Windows in the 64-bit arena.

That statement seems rather ludicrous when you look at the facts.

.

 

[clabbe deinum]

as many have said, the p-m is getting better end better.. and powerbook have to be uppgraded i dont want a g5 but at least a hotter g4, im in for the small ones and I just found a nice sony vaio

13,3 tft wide
p-m 1.8
512
80
1.9 kg
wlan
bt

i cant remember all stats but i got really turnd on by it;-P so i hopa apple do something soon som my money dont have to go a pc... couse i need a laptop about yestarday...

 

[VicMacs]

as many have said, the p-m is getting better end better.. and powerbook have to be uppgraded i dont want a g5 but at least a hotter g4, im in for the small ones and I just found a nice sony vaio

13,3 tft wide
p-m 1.8
512
80
1.9 kg
wlan
bt

i cant remember all stats but i got really turnd on by it;-P so i hopa apple do something soon som my money dont have to go a pc... couse i need a laptop about yestarday...

god help him....

 

[awesomebase]

Why say it?

It may have already been said, but this is just typical Apple. They go ahead officially with the policy that they do not comment on future products, yet they basically say hey, there is no update coming for the PowerBook. Isn't that breaking their own policy? As much as I love their products, I have to say that it is an extremely difficult relationship. On the one hand, they produce awesome products. On the other hand, their update cycles are at best slow to come and below expectations (mind you, many of those expectations are too much for ANY company). Of course that means they're good at keeping things under the radar, but, I think Apple really misses the boat when it comes to providing Windows users with what they want.
In the Windows world, prices are adjusted practically every week on systems. People that buy Windows PCs are generally inclined to watch for sales, get plenty of useful promos, periodic and frequent price adjustments, etc. Apple I think, really misses the boat here. If they don't update their main "Professional Product" for anywhere between 9 months to 1 year or more, how do they expect "switchers" to buy? They don't even do a periodic price reduction taking into account things like severe price drops in memory, processors, etc. It would have been much more to their favor if, after the iBook updates, they simply dropped the price on the PBs by $200, $300, and $400 for the 12", 15" and 17" PBs respectively (or some other amounts) instead of basically telling everyone, hey, there are no new PBs coming in the forseeable future. Well, I don't think that kind of statement will bring about switchers to the PB line at all, and Apple needs to get that kind of market share instead of trying to sell just iMacs and iBooks. Have a one-day sale on their products for once! I honestly believe that Apple's market share will not increase until they make a determined effort to understand the buying habits and incentives of people in the Windows world. Saying they're not coming out with new updates to their pro-line of laptops just a couple of months after saying that a PB G5 is a LONG way off hardly enforces any kind of reassurance or certainty in the purchasing decision, especially for those outside the Mac community.
Having said that, here are some things I would like to see in new PBs if we get them sometime next year:

• Increased screen resolutions on all models (at least as an option)
• Increased standard memory to minimum of 512MB (this is the pro line after all)
• Scroll feature on the touchpad
• Widescreen aspect ratio for the 12" PB (even if it means going to 13" to do it)
• Glowing keyboard on all models
• Better power-cord connector (stronger too)
• More video card options available (128MB and 256MB if possible)
• This is perhaps the most important one for me personally - PLEASE INTRODUCE AN APPLE DOCKING STATION FOR ALL MODELS!!

That would be my wishlist...

 

[Diatribe]

It may have already been said, but this is just typical Apple. They go ahead officially with the policy that they do not comment on future products, yet they basically say hey, there is no update coming for the PowerBook. Isn't that breaking their own policy? As much as I love their products, I have to say that it is an extremely difficult relationship. On the one hand, they produce awesome products. On the other hand, their update cycles are at best slow to come and below expectations (mind you, many of those expectations are too much for ANY company). Of course that means they're good at keeping things under the radar, but, I think Apple really misses the boat when it comes to providing Windows users with what they want.
In the Windows world, prices are adjusted practically every week on systems. People that buy Windows PCs are generally inclined to watch for sales, get plenty of useful promos, periodic and frequent price adjustments, etc. Apple I think, really misses the boat here. If they don't update their main "Professional Product" for anywhere between 9 months to 1 year or more, how do they expect "switchers" to buy? They don't even do a periodic price reduction taking into account things like severe price drops in memory, processors, etc. It would have been much more to their favor if, after the iBook updates, they simply dropped the price on the PBs by $200, $300, and $400 for the 12", 15" and 17" PBs respectively (or some other amounts) instead of basically telling everyone, hey, there are no new PBs coming in the forseeable future. Well, I don't think that kind of statement will bring about switchers to the PB line at all, and Apple needs to get that kind of market share instead of trying to sell just iMacs and iBooks. Have a one-day sale on their products for once! I honestly believe that Apple's market share will not increase until they make a determined effort to understand the buying habits and incentives of people in the Windows world. Saying they're not coming out with new updates to their pro-line of laptops just a couple of months after saying that a PB G5 is a LONG way off hardly enforces any kind of reassurance or certainty in the purchasing decision, especially for those outside the Mac community.
Having said that, here are some things I would like to see in new PBs if we get them sometime next year:

• Increased screen resolutions on all models (at least as an option)
• Increased standard memory to minimum of 512MB (this is the pro line after all)
• Scroll feature on the touchpad
• Widescreen aspect ratio for the 12" PB (even if it means going to 13" to do it)
• Glowing keyboard on all models
• Better power-cord connector (stronger too)
• More video card options available (128MB and 256MB if possible)
• This is perhaps the most important one for me personally - PLEASE INTRODUCE AN APPLE DOCKING STATION FOR ALL MODELS!!

That would be my wishlist...

You forget that not adjusting the prices results in a much higher (resale)value of the products, which is why a lot of people by Macs also.

 

[adamjay]

They managed the iMac G5 down to 2" thick, but that's twice the size of a PB. Eek!

isnt much of that due to the 3 times thicker desktop 3.5" hard drive?

 

[adamjay]

I thought 2004 was announced as the year of the portable or something to that effect. I haven't been impressed. No real revolutionary products have been put out this year.

not on the mac side,
but AMD did ship their Athlon 64 3700 DTR. and it is QUITE impressive.

 

[clabbe deinum]

god help him....

i don't think he will, otherwise a uppgrade of the pb would happen today.. i never said i would buy the vaio, it costs about 2700$ in us (3100$ in sweden) so its out of my range.. but its a fast small computer, and they are getting closer than ever to the g4 pb.

 

[MacSA]

as many have said, the p-m is getting better end better.. and powerbook have to be uppgraded i dont want a g5 but at least a hotter g4, im in for the small ones and I just found a nice sony vaio

13,3 tft wide
p-m 1.8
512
80
1.9 kg
wlan
bt

i cant remember all stats but i got really turnd on by it;-P so i hopa apple do something soon som my money dont have to go a pc... couse i need a laptop about yestarday...

I bet there are quite a few people looking back to the PC Laptop market now - and not just potential switchers. If Apple are unable to make improvements to the Powerbooks for quite a while, they should at least have dropped the prices to make them more appealing.

 

[clabbe deinum]

I bet there are quite a few people looking back to the PC Laptop market now - and not just potential switchers. If Apple are unable to make improvements to the Powerbooks for quite a while, they should at least have dropped the prices to make them more appealing.

yeah that would, problably, make me buy right away..

 

[purplehaze]

WOW ....where did you get that from?

Believe it or not, I got it from an Aldi store in Glasgow. Up here we had some adverts in our Sunday papers a couple of weeks before they came out. After a quick look at the specs and price I knew I couldn't turn this one down.

It's a Gericom Ego - it was on limited release, so I think it might have gone by now, but you might want to try your local store or phone Aldi. Trust me, it's worth the money...

 

[rog]

Guess we're all stuck with 2002 era specs in powerbooks for the forseeable future. Ouch!

 

[AidenShaw]

Another reason *not* to want a 64-bit laptop

Even though 64-bit could mean faster if the applications are written (that is very important), that doesn't mean that equals faster....

Current 1GiB DDR400 SO-DIMMs have a maximum heat dissipation of 24 watts.
(http://www.samsung.com/Products/Sem...AMmodule/SODIMM/M470L2923BN0/M470L2923BN0.htm)


So, that 8 GiB you'd want to actually use 64-bit addressing would require up to 192 watts of power for the memory.

Hmmm, maybe the power consumption of the PPC970 wouldn't be the big problem after all....

 

[Furrybeagle]

With regards to your PowerBook dilemma, I'll give the same advice I'd give anyone looking to buy a computer. Unless you have inside information regarding product releases, buy what you need now and use it. If something far better comes along soon, realize that it doesn't make your machine any slower, nor does it remove what you can do with your investment. It just means that the top-end has moved somewhat.

Do you get mad if a car manufacturer releases a new model? If not, then why worry if your computer is "outdated" by a future release?

I'm looking to get this near the end of the year (if i do). Since that is off for me, that would give me some time to work with it and transfer over (i have over 15 gigs of documents on my pc to sort through, none of them are downloaded movies or software or even music for that matter). So I have to figure out what to mvoe and then move it, and that will require sometime.

And about getting disappointed when they come out with new hardware, I guess its a thing from the PC world, where you get about 2 weeks with a powerful system.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I agree that Apple should offer periodic sales, but that is not going to happen for just the PB alone until they update it. It would kill the iBook sales. Must I keep repeating this. Since the PowerBook is for Power users, and power users tend to get the hardware when they need it, that means they aren't all going to get the PB during the holiday season just because it is the holiday season. That means that the iBook gets much greater sales from the holiday season. That is why they can't kill the sales of the iBook with a PB price drop. That is all there is to it! (note the EXTRA emphasis)

 

[manu chao]

I agree that Apple should offer periodic sales, but that is not going to happen for just the PB alone until they update it. It would kill the iBook sales. Must I keep repeating this. Since the PowerBook is for Power users, and power users tend to get the hardware when they need it, that means they aren't all going to get the PB during the holiday season just because it is the holiday season. That means that the iBook gets much greater sales from the holiday season. That is why they can't kill the sales of the iBook with a PB price drop. That is all there is to it! (note the EXTRA emphasis)

Even if a price drop for the Powerbooks shifted some buyers from the iBook to the Powerbook (which is rather likely) what would Apple loose? It would have higher revenues, Powerbook prices will still be higher per unit than iBook prices, and maybe even higher profits. I would guess the margins on the Powerbook are higher than on the iBook, after a price drop on the latter they probably could do the same for the former without changing that ratio. Even if relative margins were the same (e.g. 25%), the higher prices for the Powerbooks would still mean higher profits, than they would have with selling iBooks instead of the Powerbooks.

 

[Furrybeagle]

Supposing that they lowered the price of the PB to the price of the iBook, that would:

-Kill revenues for a system that they have just spent money updating.
-Lower resale value, making some customers angry.
-DECREASE profits.

The iBook is accurately priced. Despite how close the PB 12" is, it is still better in certain respects. Lowering the PB price would be giving people a better system at the same price as an iBook. And if the iBook, we all agree, is accurately priced, than that certainly doesn't mean that Apple is making profits on an underpriced machine.

Or to simply put it, when you say what does apple have to loose, they won't be profitting from a better system for the same price as a more average system.

Now for the 15" and 17" models, thats a completely different story. If I was Apple, I would:

-make all PowerBooks 1.5GHz across the board or something slightly higher that is over clocked.
-add higher resolution screens (1152x860 for 12", other models don't matter as much)
-and perhaps add lightup keyboard for 12" PB as an extra.

Doing this will one shut people up (to put it bluntly). It will be enough of an update to renew atleast part of the PB. What things do people generally want now in the PB. Lightup screen on the 12". Done. Higher Resolution Screens. Done. Faster Proccesors. Done (to a certain extent). It won't be anything new but it would satisfy people enough until Apple can get the new models out.

Now if Apple was really good, they would also upgrade the video cards in the machine. Increase the RAM size for the 12" to allow 128. And perhaps itroduce an updated GeForce FX. For the 15" and 17", either go 9800, x600 (or whatever is ATi's new mobile video card is) or 6600 (or whatever the new one is called). That would have me buying in an instant.

 

[sw1tcher]

yeah that would, problably, make me buy right away..

Same here. But Apple would have to drop the prices by at least $200 for me. Otherwise, I'm still going to wait it out until MWSF.

 

[Seanb23]

I'm telling y'all, there are lots of people out there who would happily snap up a bulkier, hotter, heavier 17" pbook with modern mobile hardware in it. I would be willing to tote around the extra weight, anyway, just to be able to have some damn headroom when running multiple heavy duty tasks...

 

[thediesel]

Regarding the next processor, I have been all over the place in terms of what I want over the past months, with the wishes of g5 shift to dual core g4, and so on. But realistically, it is seeming that dual core processors will not be ready in time, and the g5 will take a lot of work to efficiently squeeze into the powerbook.

What I am expecting is a pb update sometime in January or February. The upgrade might be a standard processor upgrade and such, the last revolution of the current line, or they will introduce the next revolution. If the next revolution is introduced, I do not expect the processor to be a g5 or labeled as a g4. For all we know, Freescale or IBM could be working on a mobile edition processor that is not heavily g4 or g5. I bet Apple would want it to be able to handle 64 bit, but it will probably not be the same as the g5. There have been rumors of a freescale processor similar to this in the works, and maybe it is something Apple has up its sleeve to make the powerbooks new again.

A year for an update is a long time. We all know how quickly technology progresses and Apple must capture this and show us notebooks that are a year newer than the current line. Regardless of what processor is in it (the current ones are quite fast, but there is more than speed in regards to a computer) there should be some significant changes. These may include better screens, better standard ram, improved video, or other little things that would make the overall package better. I will be purchasing an apple notebook in the next months, and I'm hoping that I will be able to get something on the cutting edge.

 

[themacman]

well in simple words this sucks.

 

[sw1tcher]

Supposing that they lowered the price of the PB to the price of the iBook, that would:

-Kill revenues for a system that they have just spent money updating.

I don't think a lower priced PB would kill revenues on the iBook since the PB has a higher sales margin than the iBook. And if priced carefully, the PB's may still have a higher margin than the iBook's even if they lowered prices on them. By lowering the PB's price, Apple may even end up increasing PB sales since they're already being viewed as overpriced by many people I know, not to mention a lot of people here.

-Lower resale value, making some customers angry.

Unfortunately, that's the way things usually are. Almost everything will have a lower resale value after it's been purchased. Apple's not in the business to make sure peoples hardware maintains a high resale value. It's just not possible.

-DECREASE profits.

Not necessarily so. A lower priced PB may still have a higher margin than the iBooks. If potential iBook buyers think the lower priced PB's are a better buy and they buy the PB's instead, Apple would benefit from the increased sales and higher margins of the PB's. Who knows how many people will buy PB's if their prices stay where they're at now.

What things do people generally want now in the PB.

On the 12" PB, a faster processor, a better GPU (with a 128MB GPU as a BTO option), a 60GB 5400rpm HDD as standard, and a lightup keyboard.