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velocityg4

macrumors 604
Dec 19, 2004
7,329
4,717
Georgia
To all those saying that making a hackintosh is illegal and a copyright violation. I would consider that a false assumption. Apple's EULA has not yet been contested in court yet for a decision to be reached.

However given that:

The Copyright office stated: “while a copyright owner might try to restrict the programs that can be run on a particular operating system, copyright law is not the vehicle for imposition of such restrictions.”

The Library of Congress: "The Librarian of Congress has announced the classes of works subject to the exemption from the prohibition against circumvention of technological measures that control access to copyrighted works. Persons making non-infringing uses of the following six classes of works will not be subject to the prohibition against circumventing access controls (17 U.S.C. § 1201(a)(1)) until the conclusion of the next rulemaking . . ."

The Federal Appeals court stated in regards to "keys" and "dongles": “The owner’s technological measure must protect the copyrighted material against an infringement of a right that the Copyright Act protects, not from mere use or viewing,”

Federal Regulators stated: “the activity of an iPhone owner who modifies his or her iPhone’s firmware/operating system in order to make it interoperable with an application that Apple has not approved, but that the iPhone owner wishes to run on the iPhone, fits comfortably within the four corners of fair use.”

I would consider it safe to say Apple no way of preventing hackintoshes other than attempting to block it in the OS. If contested in court the hackintosh would be considered legal as long as the software was not pirated. Nor would workarounds like the Chameleon boot loader, DSDT settings, modified kexts &c. The purpose of copyright is to protect against unauthorized reproduction and sale of works not how those works are used by the end user.

As for a sub forum for hackintoshes I am all for that. I know there are sites dedicated to that. There are also sites dedicated to digital audio, iphones, classic apple collecting &c yet Macrumors has forums for those. I would prefer using Macrumors for hackintosh help. As the community is much more helpful. When I was quite interested in building a hackintosh insanelymac was useless. No one would respond to threads I started with well thought and specific questions. I also think there should be a Windows forum as there are a lot of users here with loads of Windows experience but no appropriate place for questions.

Edit: Before Psystar is pointed out. They were making profit through unauthorized use of Apple's software. These rulings are in reference to the end user.
 
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OneMike

macrumors 603
Oct 19, 2005
5,814
1,795
I'm sorry, but i dont think this should be in the Mac Pro/ PowerMac forum. Put that stuff in some other catergory.

If it was up to me I wouldnt allow it period. Just like roms or pirated software talk. If there was any other pirated software discussion it would not be ok.

Yada yada. It's not up to you and I see nothing wrong with them.
 

KeriJane

macrumors 6502a
Sep 26, 2009
578
1
ЧИКАГО!
Just a moment....

Assuming Apple makes the strategic mistake of selling OSX separate from a computer, which they have.... and an enterprising enthusiast buys it and tricks it into working on non-Apple Hardware....

1- The software has not been pirated, but is being used in a way contrary to the license agreement which means...
2- The EULA has been broken which is of questionable legal merit and may or may not be enforceable...

But doesn't building a Hackintosh in the first place constitute pirating proprietary Apple HARDWARE?
Is it possible for Apple to prosecute on the hardware end of things?

Just curious. Any thoughts on the hardware end?

Have Fun,
Keri

PS> I don't see the point of building a Hackintosh.... seems like a waste of time and money to me. But that's besides the interesting legal aspects presented here.
 

roadbloc

macrumors G3
Aug 24, 2009
8,784
215
UK
PS> I don't see the point of building a Hackintosh.... seems like a waste of time and money to me. But that's besides the interesting legal aspects presented here.

Whereas I think the rest of your thread brings up an interesting point, I think that part of the post is simply ridiculous. The whole point in a hackintosh is to get OS X at a cheaper price, hackintosh's save the buyer lots of money since they don't have to pay the apparent tax Apple put on all their products.

As for time, that's subjective as well. Sure, it will take more time than just going to Apple.com and picking one you choose and waiting for it to turn up; but say you spend an afternoon building a hackintosh, you could quite easily spend just as long in an Apple Store deciding what you would like and conversing with the Genius Bar.
 

LucasG

macrumors regular
Aug 4, 2010
192
3
So it actually illegal to run a hackintosh in a commercial environment? As long as you purchase the Mac OS X retail DVD?
 

weckart

macrumors 603
Nov 7, 2004
5,835
3,514
But doesn't building a Hackintosh in the first place constitute pirating proprietary Apple HARDWARE?
Is it possible for Apple to prosecute on the hardware end of things?

What proprietary hardware did you have in mind? Intel and AMD cpus? ATI and nVidia gpus? Hard drives from whatever manufacturer - ditto RAM? Generic cases to put the whole shebang in?

I am genuinely curious as to what part of the hardware - save the logic board - you consider proprietary in any Mac. Everything else is bought by Apple from suppliers to the general public and other assemblers like Dell and HP.

Considering that the usual p2p methods have not yet figured a way how to share hardware, how exactly do you pirate hardware?:confused:
 

KeriJane

macrumors 6502a
Sep 26, 2009
578
1
ЧИКАГО!
What proprietary hardware did you have in mind? Intel and AMD cpus? ATI and nVidia gpus? Hard drives from whatever manufacturer - ditto RAM? Generic cases to put the whole shebang in?

I am genuinely curious as to what part of the hardware - save the logic board - you consider proprietary in any Mac. Everything else is bought by Apple from suppliers to the general public and other assemblers like Dell and HP.

Considering that the usual p2p methods have not yet figured a way how to share hardware, how exactly do you pirate hardware?:confused:


Especially and particularly the bits of hardware that OSX uses to ensure that it is being installed on a Mac.
Maybe this would be Apple's proprietary EFI which is partly software isn't it?

Unlike OSX, the EFI code and/or hardware is definitively NOT for sale separate from buying the Mac... you can't buy it legally without buying a Mac and so emulating or copying it might be either Piracy or Patent Infringement. Or whatever else a creative law could dream up?

Maybe it would be considered as ROM or as a Hardware Dongle?

Have Fun,
Keri

PS. "Waste of time" = trying to get all of the hardware to operate and then playing cat and mouse with Apple's updates.

PS. "Waste of money" = Mac Mini or MacBook are good basic OSX systems, are often on clearance when new models come out and have good resale value while resale value on a Hackintosh = used component parts.

And of course if Apple ever gets all litigious about Hackintoshes.... paying lawyers to defend your actions could make a truckload of loaded Mac Pros look cheap..... even if you do eventually win.
 

Hellhammer

Moderator emeritus
Dec 10, 2008
22,164
582
Finland
PS. "Waste of time" = trying to get all of the hardware to operate and then playing cat and mouse with Apple's updates.

Do your homework well before buying anything and it won't be much different from setting up a real Mac.

PS. "Waste of money" = Mac Mini or MacBook are good basic OSX systems, are often on clearance when new models come out and have good resale value while resale value on a Hackintosh = used component parts.

What about those people who don't want to pay 699$ for Mac Mini when they can get a Hackintosh for the same money and it will run circles around the Mini? There are plenty of people who need/want more than Mini offers but cannot afford a Mac Pro. iMac is a compromised solution as it offers no upgradeability and is rather slow for gaming for instance.

There is no need to sell the Hack. If you need more speed, just upgrade the parts that need to be upgraded. You can still use the same case and all that.

And of course if Apple ever gets all litigious about Hackintoshes.... paying lawyers to defend your actions could make a truckload of loaded Mac Pros look cheap..... even if you do eventually win.

If cows had wings, they would fly too. Apple has not shown any interest to sue individuals that build Hacks for their own purposes. For commercial use it is a bit different. Like noted above, Apple's EULA has not been tested in court yet, at least not against an individual person.

Besides, Apple's EULA is not valid in Finland for example. It is completely legal to build a PC with OS X if you wish so. There is a company in Germany that has been selling Hacks for years and Apple hasn't been able to do anything about it, because it is legal.
 

steviem

macrumors 68020
May 26, 2006
2,218
4
New York, Baby!
The other problem is Apple is basically forcing a market to use 'hackintoshes' by discontinuing the XServe.

There are plenty of companies which need to have power redundancy, hot swap disks, rack mountable hardware which just isn't offered anymore.

Hopefully Apple will license future versions of OSX to vmware/parallels/hp for server purposes.
 

GFLPraxis

macrumors 604
Mar 17, 2004
7,152
460
Of course it's illegal. It's a violation of US copyright law. There's nothing criminal about it. Copyright violation is a civil matter. You won't be arrested for building a hackintosh, but it's illegal and Apple could sue you.

Explain to me where I violate copyright law when I purchase a legal copy of Mac OS X and install it on a Hackintosh.

I violated the EULA. I didn't pirate the disc or brand anything with an Apple logo.
 

dava4444

macrumors newbie
Jun 4, 2010
12
0
Hi guys

maybe it is legal, but socially immoral, or conversely illegal, but socially moral..

WE decide. by the Grace of God, WE do :)

Apple's EULA is worthless if we decide it is, the governments are there to represent us, much more than corporations.

Do you think they (Apple) should be rewarded for 1. nicking linux/bsd? 2.making it better?

the second one is easy, so....

I think they should be rewarded, but also punished for not keeping THEIR open source agreement with the FOSS community.

so again half-seys,.. how about if you/we put enough money in their pocket
that we know they are paid for their hard work (a couple of intels should do it YMMV) so then we are morally free to use OSX once, a one time Hackintosh install, and the rest of the Community is tolerant :S

of course there is Ubuntu (which i am a fan of) but thats maybe not the right thing to say here lol, but i would be remiss if i left it out.

notice they (Apple) did not honor there agreement, why should we?
Save the Lord.

peace

Dava


(thanks gorgeousninja, but ah wis puttin on ma fancie voice fur those who dinnae ken :D
 
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