No upgrade in base storage after ~6 years? Okay Apple.

[Howard2k]

When it comes to security, err on the side of being more secure. For routine folks there is no need to be super vigilant, but certainly it’s better to be cautious.

I don’t use cloud storage. It’s not that I never would, but given the choice I’d just rather keep my data at home. Except for the offsite backup. Admittedly encrypted. And except for the VPN into my home network, which is also something of a risk. Am I better at securing my network than Apple is at securing theirs? Probably not. But with me being a nobody there’s a fair degree of security through obfuscation too.


Most of us are probably at greater risk of social engineering.

It's the performance of the cloud for storage that is more a concern to me than security.

 

[motrek]

I think we will just need to agree to disagree and move on. My point is that you don't give-up all hope, but you take reasonable precautions (such as two factor authentication) with iCloud. I perceive the other securty/privacy risks that I encounter in everyday life to be an order of magnitude greater than the risk I take backing up my phone with iCloud. So, I am not going to deny myself the convenience of using the Cloud for a minuscule amount of marginal risk compared to other stuff.

Two quick things.

1. Two factor authentication is great, but it's access control. It's basically a fancy password. So you're making the false equivalency that "the cloud has a password, and local storage has a password, so they're probably about the same." That's ignoring the fact that in the cloud, your data is being stored in a location that you have no control over, and transferred to/from that location over connections that you have very little control over. It's all probably fairly secure, but still exponentially less secure than just keeping your data local and encrypted.

2. I disagree about the risks involved. If somebody got ahold of my phone data, in the wrong hands, that could be absolutely catastrophic to me in a short amount of time. Access to my emails and contacts and messages would easily allow a bad actor to steal my identity and probably transfer a lot of my assets elsewhere before I realized what was going on. (See the lawsuit about the guy who lost $1.8M in a matter of minutes just due to a SIM-swap attack.) Whereas if you look at the everyday risk you might have of, e.g., having your credit card stolen, who cares? All you do is report the card stolen, tell the credit card company which charges were fraudulent, and move on with your life...

 

[Mainsail]

Two quick things.

1. Two factor authentication is great, but it's access control. It's basically a fancy password. So you're making the false equivalency that "the cloud has a password, and local storage has a password, so they're probably about the same." That's ignoring the fact that in the cloud, your data is being stored in a location that you have no control over, and transferred to/from that location over connections that you have very little control over. It's all probably fairly secure, but still exponentially less secure than just keeping your data local and encrypted.

2. I disagree about the risks involved. If somebody got ahold of my phone data, in the wrong hands, that could be absolutely catastrophic to me in a short amount of time. Access to my emails and contacts and messages would easily allow a bad actor to steal my identity and probably transfer a lot of my assets elsewhere before I realized what was going on. (See the lawsuit about the guy who lost $1.8M in a matter of minutes just due to a SIM-swap attack.) Whereas if you look at the everyday risk you might have of, e.g., having your credit card stolen, who cares? All you do is report the card stolen, tell the credit card company which charges were fraudulent, and move on with your life...

1. Ok. So, let's say having local encrypted data is more secure. iCloud is still very secure if you use it properly. There are almost 800 million iCloud users. How often do you hear of stolen iCloud data from an account using two factor authentication?

2. You are confusing consequence with risk. Risk is Probability x Consequence. The probability of someone stealing my iCloud data is very low, so the risk is acceptable even if the consequence is high. Driving on the freeway with loved ones has potentially high consequence. But, most people deem the risk to be acceptable because they see the probability of an accident as being low. Also, I disagree with you about the consequence of everyday transactions. Indeed, losing a credit cards is low consequence. How about your social security number on a credit card application? How about a home loan application with your address, salary, bank account numbers, mutual fund account numbers, credit card numbers, and other detailed itemized assets and liabilities along with your social security number? Bundled together, this information is very consequential. Yet, millions of people apply for mortgages every year and hand a file full of their info to the receptionist at the local brokers office. Why? Because they perceive the probability (and therefore the risk) of theft or fraud to be relatively low.

 

[motrek]

1. Ok. So, let's say having local encrypted data is more secure. iCloud is still very secure if you use it properly. There are almost 800 million iCloud users. How often do you hear of stolen iCloud data from an account using two factor authentication?

Just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it can't happen. Or it might have happened and we don't know about it. Probably a lot of stuff seems pretty secure until it doesn't. It's an incontrovertible fact that having data in the cloud increases your attack surface.

Also, you're talking about hacking. What about the [many?] thousands of times that Apple has been legally compelled to hand over peoples' phone data (via iCloud backups) by the governments of various countries? And now Apple has moved Chinese accounts to Chinese servers to comply with government requirements. Even if you aren't worried about the US government spying on you (and why wouldn't you be, after Snowden), if you travel to foreign countries, you might run the risk of being in a country where the government can compel Apple to turn over your data for some reason that you don't agree with.

I will agree that the chance of us having our data hacked is low, and if I have to put data in the cloud, I trust Apple to keep it secure and private more than most other companies. But if I can avoid the whole risk altogether, and ensure my own privacy just by plugging my phone into my computer once in a while to do a local backup, why wouldn't I go that route??

... How about your social security number on a credit card application? How about a home loan application with your address, salary, bank account numbers, mutual fund account numbers, credit card numbers, and other detailed itemized assets and liabilities along with your social security number? Bundled together, this information is very consequential. Yet, millions of people apply for mortgages every year and hand a file full of their info to the receptionist at the local brokers office. Why? Because they perceive the probability (and therefore the risk) of theft or fraud to be relatively low.

Sorry, I misread your previous post. I thought you said you encountered greater risks every day, instead of in "everyday life." So I will agree that there are probably greater risks to your privacy than iCloud backups. But it's not every day that you do stuff like apply for a mortgage. Maybe I'm lucky but I can count on one hand the number of times that I've been required to hand over an uncomfortable amount of personal information in order to do something like get a mortgage. I don't see a reason to increase that number by a significant percentage by storing private data in the cloud, when the alternative is so ridiculously simple.

 

[Mainsail]

Just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it can't happen. Or it might have happened and we don't know about it. Probably a lot of stuff seems pretty secure until it doesn't. It's an incontrovertible fact that having data in the cloud increases your attack surface.

Also, you're talking about hacking. What about the [many?] thousands of times that Apple has been legally compelled to hand over peoples' phone data (via iCloud backups) by the governments of various countries? And now Apple has moved Chinese accounts to Chinese servers to comply with government requirements. Even if you aren't worried about the US government spying on you (and why wouldn't you be, after Snowden), if you travel to foreign countries, you might run the risk of being in a country where the government can compel Apple to turn over your data for some reason that you don't agree with.

I will agree that the chance of us having our data hacked is low, and if I have to put data in the cloud, I trust Apple to keep it secure and private more than most other companies. But if I can avoid the whole risk altogether, and ensure my own privacy just by plugging my phone into my computer once in a while to do a local backup, why wouldn't I go that route??



Sorry, I misread your previous post. I thought you said you encountered greater risks every day, instead of in "everyday life." So I will agree that there are probably greater risks to your privacy than iCloud backups. But it's not every day that you do stuff like apply for a mortgage. Maybe I'm lucky but I can count on one hand the number of times that I've been required to hand over an uncomfortable amount of personal information in order to do something like get a mortgage. I don't see a reason to increase that number by a significant percentage by storing private data in the cloud, when the alternative is so ridiculously simple.

Again, we are talking about probability of consequence. A killer Tornado hasn't hit California, but it could happen. Should I dig a shelter under my house just in case. There are millions of acceptable risks we take with high consequence but low probability. Flying in an Airplane. Driving on a Bridge. As for government conspiracies to obtain my data, I will absorb the risk on this one. Will I stop using ETCs for road and bridge tolls and sit in traffic because I am afraid the government is tracking my movements? What about using GPS on my phone for navigation? Is sky net tracking me? Also, I see the odds of Apple handing over my data to a foreign government as being extremely low.

You keep saying that using iCloud significantly increases the risk of data being stolen, but when asked how many times it has happened with two factor authentication, the answer is "well but it could". This is not a logical way to manage risk. If we avoided all of the things in life that could happen, we would not get out of bed in the morning. Hypothetically, let say the probability of data being stolen using iCloud is 10 times greater than local storage. So, the probability goes from 1 chance in 100 million to 1 chance in 10 million. That means there would be like 50 occurrences of stolen iCloud data from people using two factor authentication......not sure there are any such cases but let's be generous. The risk is still acceptably low. You have already rationalized a similar risk with mortgages applications. You accept the risk because you don't do it very often. This isn't because the consequence of compromising this data is low. It is because you do it infrequently, which lowers the probability of the consequence and makes the risk acceptable to you.

 

[motrek]

Again, we are talking about probability of consequence. ... You have already rationalized a similar risk with mortgages applications. ...

Well, when I drive over a bridge or apply for a mortgage, I'm getting some kind of benefit. So if I'm doing some kind of benefit vs. risk analysis, it's non-zero. Whereas I can't think of a single benefit that backing up my phone to iCloud gives me.

- My computer is the primary way that I charge my phone (for a number of reasons) so I'm plugging my phone into my computer multiple times per day, so my local backup of my phone is always extremely up-to-date with me going to literally no extra effort beyond what I would usually do to charge my phone. Probably almost always more up-to-date than if I did iCloud backups.

- iCloud backups aren't complete. They only back up your "most important" data, as specified by apps themselves. This probably isn't a big deal, but if you have the option to easily back up all your data via local backups, why not just do that.

- I'm pretty sure I'd run out of free iCloud space if I backed up my phone to iCloud, so then I'd have to start paying a monthly fee for more iCloud storage. For what benefit?

- And as mentioned, while the risk of somebody stealing my iCloud data is low, probably extremely low, it's not non-zero. My data is unquestionably more secure by doing local backups.

So I'm looking at the benefits and disadvantages of iCloud backups vs. local backups: iCloud backups aren't any more convenient, they're less complete, they're going to be slightly less current, they'd take longer to access the data when doing a phone restore vs. from a local backup, I'd probably have to pay a monthly fee for iCloud data, and backing up iCloud would expose me to a small by extant security risk.

So when I drive over a bridge, it's a risk, but I get a benefit from it. If I were to back up my phone to iCloud, I see no benefit, but I'm still taking a risk. So the benefit vs. risk value is lower for iCloud backups even though the risk is very small.

I've seen iCloud backups as a backup-option-of-last-resort for certain subsets of the population. Maybe old people or teenagers who are trying to get through life just with a cell phone. And people who are so absent-minded that they can't remember to plug their iOS devices into their computers once in a while. If you don't fall into these categories I'm not sure why you would ever want to use iCloud backups.

 

[Mainsail]

So, you don’t sync your devices to iCloud? I get a huge benefit having all of my devices up to date and in sync. There is no additional risk involved in backing up to iCloud, since all of my files, contacts, calendars, etc are already sync and saved to iCloud. I pay a pittance 99 cents per month for additional storage.....big deal.

I would hate to plug in my phone every time I added a contact or made a grocery list on my computer before I left the house with just my phone. What a pain. So, if you are syncing to the Cloud, I don’t get the benefit of not backing up to the Cloud. If you aren’t syncing to the Cloud, you are really missing out on a huge convenience. Definitely a good risk reward benefit, since we both agree the probability of something bad happening is extremely low. Frankly, I don’t know anyone who doesn’t sync their info to the Cloud, since almost everyone has multiple devices.

 

[iluvmacs99]

I have a 2014 MacBook Air (11"), base model, 4GB RAM, 128GB SSD.

It has gotten to the point where I'm frequently running out of RAM. It's a shame. For 4+ years I was able to run Safari and XCode at the same time comfortably but I guess software just gets bigger. Annoying, but here we are.

So now I'm looking at a 2019 MacBook Air and see that the base model has 8GB RAM (probably enough for a while) but still only 128GB of storage.

WTF? No upgrade to the base model after 5-6 years? I have to pay $200 extra to get some more storage? I know Apple's MO is to cheap out on storage space but this seems ridiculous.

People complain about how much storage the base models of iPhones had (16GB was ridiculous towards the end) but the longest it took between doubling their storage was 4 years (iPhone 5 to iPhone 7).

You'd think that after waiting 5-6 years to buy a new laptop I could expect some more storage. The new MBA has a bigger screen, twice the screen resolution, twice the RAM, a processor that's 30% faster (well, okay, that's not that impressive)... and exactly the same storage. Great.

I know this is an old-man-yells-at-clouds post, thanks for humoring me.

Most people who are buying the base model Air is basically using the Air to surf the net and do cloud computing. In fact, quite a fair number of them I might add. Your needs are different and unique, but that doesn't mean that many others must accept your needs and pay extra that they won't use. People just need a modern machine that allows them to get on websites, have the latest security patches and is nice and light and slim. The base Air is basically a portable html terminal and that has enough ram and storage to hold websites, tabs and security patches until the machine stops receiving updates. By then, it become disposable. Apple does sell other stuff that will meet your needs, but it will cost you more.

 

[Mainsail]

Most people who are buying the base model Air is basically using the Air to surf the net and do cloud computing. In fact, quite a fair number of them I might add. Your needs are different and unique, but that doesn't mean that many others must accept your needs and pay extra that they won't use. People just need a modern machine that allows them to get on websites, have the latest security patches and is nice and light and slim. The base Air is basically a portable html terminal and that has enough ram and storage to hold websites, tabs and security patches until the machine stops receiving updates. By then, it become disposable. Apple does sell other stuff that will meet your needs, but it will cost you more.

In addition to the net, I would add that the MBA is capable of also locally running most popular software, productivity apps (iWork & MS Office), iMovie, etc.. For many students, business people, and home users, this is all they need.

 

[motrek]

Most people who are buying the base model Air is basically using the Air to surf the net and do cloud computing. In fact, quite a fair number of them I might add. Your needs are different and unique, but that doesn't mean that many others must accept your needs and pay extra that they won't use. People just need a modern machine that allows them to get on websites, have the latest security patches and is nice and light and slim. The base Air is basically a portable html terminal and that has enough ram and storage to hold websites, tabs and security patches until the machine stops receiving updates. By then, it become disposable. Apple does sell other stuff that will meet your needs, but it will cost you more.

As I've already written in a bunch of posts, this wasn't always the case. Up until a year or so ago, the base model MacBook Air was perfectly capable of being an iOS developer's only computer. Able to run XCode, a browser with a number of tabs open, and the other usual stuff (Mail, Messages, etc.) all at the same time.

Your idea that any computer that Apple sells might only be appropriate for surfing the web seems pretty wrong-headed to me. These things cost over $1000. If all you're doing is surfing the web then you'd be better off with almost any other kind of laptop/computer, or even just one of Apple's other devices like an iPad.

And if these base-model configurations are just supposed to be for surfing the net and "cloud computing" then why do they have 8GB of RAM? They'd only need 4, really. But Apple spends the extra few dollars it costs to put 8GB of RAM in the device... just not the extra few dollars it would cost to put 256GB of storage. Disappointing that the company has lost its way so recently.
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So, you don’t sync your devices to iCloud? I get a huge benefit having all of my devices up to date and in sync. ...

Let's not go down this strawman route. Of course I use certain cloud services. (A few of Apple's, a few of Google's, a few others.) Just because I use some services doesn't mean that I should use all possible services, and just because I put some data in the cloud doesn't mean that all data is equally private and I shouldn't mind putting any of it in the cloud regardless of what it is.

Also, there's enormous benefit to having e.g. my calendar in the cloud. Like you said, it allows all my devices to be in sync. What's the benefit of having a backup of my phone in the cloud?

 

[iluvmacs99]

Many people have no issues paying for an iPhone 11 Pro; in fact it sold pretty well for as much as a Macbook Air base model. When you have a lot of tabs open, like 20 plus, you need a min of 8Gb. And Catalina demands 4Gb as the minimum config, so 8Gb is just about right for starters.

Apple is simply addressing the demand. It is making millions and just look at the stock price; it shoots up like a Saturn rocket from the lows of $158US at the end of 2018. If people had bought a ton @ $158US, you would have made money, because Apple made money. Somehow I sense that a company who makes a lot of money is a poor company that can't do good business and people complain that their stuff is overpriced and underpowered. Well, we live in a democracy and I know you can vent.

But just like in Jerry Maguire -- "Show me the money!!" Can you show me that you can make better money than Apple by your decision?

 

[motrek]

...
But just like in Jerry Maguire -- "Show me the money!!" Can you show me that you can make better money than Apple by your decision?

No, I never had "a decision" and I never claimed that anything I wanted would make Apple more money than they're making. Asking me to argue that makes it look like you've won some sort of argument when you've done nothing of the sort.

I do know that until recently, Apple was basically keeping pace with general advances in technology and keeping rough pace with their competition in the PC world. They saw fit to double the amount of RAM in base-model MacBooks with the 2018 redesign when the arguably didn't strictly have to. But for some reason they didn't double the SSD. Seems like this is a pretty valid thing to be annoyed by, no?

 

[Mainsail]

Let's not go down this strawman route. Of course I use certain cloud services. (A few of Apple's, a few of Google's, a few others.) Just because I use some services doesn't mean that I should use all possible services, and just because I put some data in the cloud doesn't mean that all data is equally private and I shouldn't mind putting any of it in the cloud regardless of what it is.

Also, there's enormous benefit to having e.g. my calendar in the cloud. Like you said, it allows all my devices to be in sync. What's the benefit of having a backup of my phone in the cloud?

I really don't understand what type of security risk you think you are avoiding by backing up your phone to your computer if you are using Cloud services anyway. You must have important work files or documents that you want to have access to when you are away from your computer, so you can forward them or reference them from your phone or another mobile device. Do you have to manually plug-in all of your mobile devices and sync them to your computer every time you update or edit a document so it is accessible when you are away from the computer? If so, what a pain in the butt! If not, and you use Cloud services for these important documents, then what exactly are you protecting by manually backing up your phone to the computer? Recognizing, as you already have done, that the probability of iCloud security failure using two factor authentication is incredibly small. I don't get it.

 

[motrek]

... If not, and you use Cloud services for these important documents, then what exactly are you protecting by manually backing up your phone to the computer?

No, I actually don't really have "important documents" that I need to access from my phone in addition to my laptop or desktop computer. Maybe once in a while, in which case I can email the document to myself so I can easily access it from my phone. Not really a big deal.

And you're again making the false equivalency that if I'm willing to have one piece of important information in the cloud, that I might as well put all my important information in the cloud. How does that track?

Surely you understand that people have different amounts of privacy that they want for different things. Just because I don't mind putting a random grocery list in a less-secure secure place means that it logically follows that I might as well put all my recent vacation photos in a less-secure place.

Recognizing, as you already have done, that the probability of iCloud security failure using two factor authentication is incredibly small. I don't get it.

You have to get off this two-factor authentication kick. Every time you talk about security of stuff you mention TFA. TFA is great, everybody should use it, but it only addresses one pretty specific attack (somebody getting/guessing your password). That attack is probably the least of my worries re: the security of my data in the cloud. There are many other attack vectors and opportunities for the data to be accessed in undesirable ways.

EDIT: Actually I'm curious and I'll flip this question back to you. You're asking why not back up my phone to iCloud. My question is, why SHOULD I back it up to iCloud? Again, what benefit would it give me? I back up my phone to my computer effortlessly every single time I plug it in to charge. Just tell me what I would gain by backing up to iCloud.

 

[iluvmacs99]

No, I never had "a decision" and I never claimed that anything I wanted would make Apple more money than they're making. Asking me to argue that makes it look like you've won some sort of argument when you've done nothing of the sort.

I do know that until recently, Apple was basically keeping pace with general advances in technology and keeping rough pace with their competition in the PC world. They saw fit to double the amount of RAM in base-model MacBooks with the 2018 redesign when the arguably didn't strictly have to. But for some reason they didn't double the SSD. Seems like this is a pretty valid thing to be annoyed by, no?

A company makes money on products people buy. You are questioning basically on Apple's 6 years decision in keeping the base storage the same. You are just arguing a point based on your personal opinion what Apple should do and yet you offer no proof that Apple's decision is at fault, because I said the share price reflects the health of the company and the profitable decisions and yet you offered no supporting point to show that Apple's decision to keep their Macbook designs the way they did have in anyways compromise the price earning ratio and the cashflow position of the company itself. Talk is one thing, but proof in the numbers is facts. I am aware you are trying to make a compelling case, but you offered no such facts that their decision compromised their earnings and you offered no compelling proof that other companies that offered what you thought would be a better choice made more money than Apple did.
This is synonymous with someone who claims he is a better swimmer than Michael Phelps and yet offered no physical proof in terms of times and medals that he is. Anything that person said is just an opinion of his own.

8Gb of ram is pretty much a standard configuration for most laptop; be it Macbook or PC. Chrome and tablet varieties may be able to get away with less; but 8Gb is thus far a good sweet spot. 128Gb SSD is simply a cost cutting decision, but also because most people use Google Drive, Drop Box, Synology/Qnap NAS and iCloud. That's how people store data and share these days. They can modify their data in the cloud on any platform.

Apple's margin on computers have traditionally been higher than comparable PCs. That's their way of making money and customers approve of that. PC makers can't get away with this. They had to offer larger capacity drives and sometimes better build quality and sound engineering to lure potential buyers who might otherwise buy a Mac. I know that there are some people out there who make videos demonstrating the poor engineering design of Apple Macbooks. But then, what's their angle on this.

It's like the scene in the movie "The Big Short" where the character who was portraying Steve Eisman went to see Moody and complained why the rating agency didn't downgrade the bonds? The lady kindly replied; what's your angle on this huh?

I wonder what is your angle on this?

 

[valkraider]

Talking about storage sizes, what about a crappy 5 gigs on iCloud. All the other providers offer more for free.

That’s because other providers sell your user data.

If the service is “free” then *you* are the product.

 

[Mainsail]

No, I actually don't really have "important documents" that I need to access from my phone in addition to my laptop or desktop computer. Maybe once in a while, in which case I can email the document to myself so I can easily access it from my phone. Not really a big deal.

And you're again making the false equivalency that if I'm willing to have one piece of important information in the cloud, that I might as well put all my important information in the cloud. How does that track?

Surely you understand that people have different amounts of privacy that they want for different things. Just because I don't mind putting a random grocery list in a less-secure secure place means that it logically follows that I might as well put all my recent vacation photos in a less-secure place.



You have to get off this two-factor authentication kick. Every time you talk about security of stuff you mention TFA. TFA is great, everybody should use it, but it only addresses one pretty specific attack (somebody getting/guessing your password). That attack is probably the least of my worries re: the security of my data in the cloud. There are many other attack vectors and opportunities for the data to be accessed in undesirable ways.

EDIT: Actually I'm curious and I'll flip this question back to you. You're asking why not back up my phone to iCloud. My question is, why SHOULD I back it up to iCloud? Again, what benefit would it give me? I back up my phone to my computer effortlessly every single time I plug it in to charge. Just tell me what I would gain by backing up to iCloud.

Well, if you don't have important documents that you need to sync and use across multiple devices, then that's great. But, most workin folk do. People are using the cloud to sync their important documents so they can access them on their mobile devices, and therefore, already have Cloud exposure for the most important information. There really is nothing on my iPhone that I back up to iCloud that is more sensitive than the documents I sync to the cloud anyway. My vacation photos are not top secret sensitive information, and I sync the photos too because I like to instantly access them on my other devices (i.e. Apple TV). So, the photos are in the Cloud anyway. I can't think of anything of importance on my phone that I don't have synced via the cloud. So, backing up my phone to iCloud is no marginal risk because everything is already synced to the Cloud to facilitate my access across multiple devices.

Meanwhile, it is an incredible convenience to have everything synced on my devices and to just charge the phone at night and have it all backed-up automatically.

 

[motrek]

A company makes money on products people buy. You are questioning basically on Apple's 6 years decision in keeping the base storage the same. You are just arguing a point based on your personal opinion what Apple should do and yet you offer no proof that Apple's decision is at fault
...
I wonder what is your angle on this?

What do you mean, what's my angle? I've written many posts about this. Can't you read? My angle is that I'm locked into the Apple/iOS ecosystem and thus I'm forced to buy a MacBook for a laptop. The base-model configuration has been more than good enough for me for 10+ years but now it no longer is, because Apple hasn't kept up with technology trends and increased the storage for the base model. They used to in the past, now they don't. So I'm disappointed. That's as clearly as I can spell it out for you. I don't know which part you have trouble understanding?

I'm not saying that Apple HAS to do anything differently, or that they would make more money doing something differently, so stop putting words in my mouth.
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Well, if you don't have important documents that you need to sync and use across multiple devices, then that's great. But, most workin folk do. ...

Oof. Really? The companies where I've worked, if they found out you put an internal document on an iCloud server, you'd get s**tcanned so fast your head would spin. I've worked at a number of high-tech companies and what you're describing is strictly verboten by all of their infosec policies. Now I'm curious, what industry do you work in where something like that would be considered okay?!

My vacation photos are not top secret sensitive information,

I think there are different dimensions to evaluate information. One is security/safety, and another is privacy. Something you've mentioned before is your social security number. Ideally I would want my social security number to be private for security and safety reasons. A bad actor might do something bad with the number. So I want that to be private. Sure.

But I also want my vacation photos to be private. Not for any security or safety reason. If a stranger saw them then nothing really bad could happen from that. But I consider it private information and I don't want people to see those photos if I don't show the photos to them. If you don't understand that aspect of keeping stuff private then I don't know what to say. I think most people understand that but if you don't, then I can see why you're writing the posts that you're writing and I will agree that we simply disagree about this.

Meanwhile, it is an incredible convenience to have everything synced on my devices and to just charge the phone at night and have it all backed-up automatically.

Again, you're conflating file storage with device backup. Is it convenient to have certain data synchronized between devices? Yes. But irrelevant to my point, that I don't see any benefit to backing up my phone to the cloud. You can make the case that having your calendar, contacts, certain documents, etc. in the cloud is super awesome until you're blue in the face and your fingers are bleeding but that has nothing to do with any point I'm making, which is that I don't see any advantage to having your device backup stored in the cloud.

 

[Plutonius]

I have a 2014 MacBook Air (11"), base model, 4GB RAM, 128GB SSD.

It has gotten to the point where I'm frequently running out of RAM. It's a shame. For 4+ years I was able to run Safari and XCode at the same time comfortably but I guess software just gets bigger. Annoying, but here we are.

So now I'm looking at a 2019 MacBook Air and see that the base model has 8GB RAM (probably enough for a while) but still only 128GB of storage.

WTF? No upgrade to the base model after 5-6 years? I have to pay $200 extra to get some more storage? I know Apple's MO is to cheap out on storage space but this seems ridiculous.

People complain about how much storage the base models of iPhones had (16GB was ridiculous towards the end) but the longest it took between doubling their storage was 4 years (iPhone 5 to iPhone 7).

You'd think that after waiting 5-6 years to buy a new laptop I could expect some more storage. The new MBA has a bigger screen, twice the screen resolution, twice the RAM, a processor that's 30% faster (well, okay, that's not that impressive)... and exactly the same storage. Great.

I know this is an old-man-yells-at-clouds post, thanks for humoring me.

I agree.

Apple should increase the base amount of storage and increase the computer price accordingly.

People can then stop complaining about the base amount of storage.

 

[motrek]

I agree.

Apple should increase the base amount of storage and increase the computer price accordingly.

People can then stop complaining about the base amount of storage.

Sure. I'm pretty sure people would be happy to pay $10-$20 more for a base-model MBA if it meant twice as much storage.

 

[Plutonius]

Sure. I'm pretty sure people would be happy to pay $10-$20 more for a base-model MBA if it meant twice as much storage.

I was thinking more that Apple can eliminate the low base storage and offer their higher optional storage (as the new base storage amount) at the current higher storage option price (i.e. Apple will make the same money it does but the lowest option will be eliminated).

The increased cost of putting in a 256GB base drive instead of a 128GB drive would be $200.00 (current 256GB option).

 

[iluvmacs99]

What do you mean, what's my angle? I've written many posts about this. Can't you read? My angle is that I'm locked into the Apple/iOS ecosystem and thus I'm forced to buy a MacBook for a laptop. The base-model configuration has been more than good enough for me for 10+ years but now it no longer is, because Apple hasn't kept up with technology trends and increased the storage for the base model. They used to in the past, now they don't. So I'm disappointed. That's as clearly as I can spell it out for you. I don't know which part you have trouble understanding?

I'm not saying that Apple HAS to do anything differently, or that they would make more money doing something differently, so stop putting words in my mouth.
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Macbook Air 256Gb storage model is available for roughly an extra $200. People can mitigate this issue by buying refurbished by saving that $200. And you can always do a BTO for bigger storage space with Macbook Airs since 6 years ago for, again, an extra cost. Apple had always kept up with the storage trends; it is perhaps you who are now unable to keep up with Apple's inflation and rant here, because it's apparent it's a non issue with other Apple customers.

 

[Mainsail]

What do you mean, what's my angle? I've written many posts about this. Can't you read? My angle is that I'm locked into the Apple/iOS ecosystem and thus I'm forced to buy a MacBook for a laptop. The base-model configuration has been more than good enough for me for 10+ years but now it no longer is, because Apple hasn't kept up with technology trends and increased the storage for the base model. They used to in the past, now they don't. So I'm disappointed. That's as clearly as I can spell it out for you. I don't know which part you have trouble understanding?

I'm not saying that Apple HAS to do anything differently, or that they would make more money doing something differently, so stop putting words in my mouth.
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Oof. Really? The companies where I've worked, if they found out you put an internal document on an iCloud server, you'd get s**tcanned so fast your head would spin. I've worked at a number of high-tech companies and what you're describing is strictly verboten by all of their infosec policies. Now I'm curious, what industry do you work in where something like that would be considered okay?!



I think there are different dimensions to evaluate information. One is security/safety, and another is privacy. Something you've mentioned before is your social security number. Ideally I would want my social security number to be private for security and safety reasons. A bad actor might do something bad with the number. So I want that to be private. Sure.

But I also want my vacation photos to be private. Not for any security or safety reason. If a stranger saw them then nothing really bad could happen from that. But I consider it private information and I don't want people to see those photos if I don't show the photos to them. If you don't understand that aspect of keeping stuff private then I don't know what to say. I think most people understand that but if you don't, then I can see why you're writing the posts that you're writing and I will agree that we simply disagree about this.



Again, you're conflating file storage with device backup. Is it convenient to have certain data synchronized between devices? Yes. But irrelevant to my point, that I don't see any benefit to backing up my phone to the cloud. You can make the case that having your calendar, contacts, certain documents, etc. in the cloud is super awesome until you're blue in the face and your fingers are bleeding but that has nothing to do with any point I'm making, which is that I don't see any advantage to having your device backup stored in the cloud.

There are tons of independent and small business working preople that use iCloud. I am retired, but still do family real estate business. I sync everything to iCloud.

We have reached a brick wall. Time to move on. You believe that backing up your phone locally somehow gives you an advantage in security.....maybe it does. I receive no such benefit. All of my stuff (documents, photos, iMovies, mail, calendars, contacts.....everything) is already on the iCloud servers synced with my other devices, which is a huge convenience. There is no security downside to me backing up my phone to iCloud. None. The information is already there. So, for me, the Backup is simply a record of how I had my phone setup, which is basically how the apps are organized on the phone. A great big nothing burger in terms of security consequence and iCloud storage space. So, I saved local storage (which has a huge marginal cost to increase the size of an SSD) by using iCloud for Documents, Photos, Backups, etc... Yes, I pay 99 cents per month for the 50GB plan, but I would have had to pay this anyway even without the backup because everything is synced to iCloud, and I would have been over the 5GB Free storage.

BTW - Emailing documents to yourself? Really? What is this the 90s? What a pain. This is exactly the reason people keep stuff in the Cloud. I will sometimes edit a document. Leave it. Refer to it at a meeting. Come back and edit again. Then, want to change it on the fly while mobile. Do I want to repeatedly email this thing back and forth to myself? No. So, I put it in the Cloud. Now, it’s there. So, backing up my phone to the Cloud is of no security consequence. And, by the way, most people use email services that are every bit as vulnerable as iCloud.....which we both agree us actually very secure.

 

[motrek]

I was thinking more that Apple can eliminate the low base storage and offer their higher optional storage (as the new base storage amount) at the current higher storage option price (i.e. Apple will make the same money it does but the lowest option will be eliminated).

The increased cost of putting in a 256GB base drive instead of a 128GB drive would be $200.00 (current 256GB option).

Why would they charge that when they have never done so in the past?

All the base configurations in all their product lines have gotten regular upgrades in storage since Apple started as a company, without increasing prices other than maybe for inflation.

The base model iPhone now has quadruple the storage of the 2014 model. The base model iPad has twice the storage. The base model iMac has twice the storage. The base model Mac Mini has less storage but has been upgraded from hard drive to SSD.

The base model MacBook... nothing since 2014. This is stupid. Software and files get bigger as the years go by. To have the same quality of experience as several years ago, people need more storage. But Apple isn't giving it to us.

The correct reaction to this situation is to be annoyed and disappointed. Most of the people on this thread have the correct reaction. If you don't, that's kinda weird.
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We have reached a brick wall. Time to move on. You believe that backing up your phone locally somehow gives you an advantage in security.....maybe it does. I receive no such benefit. All of my stuff (documents, photos, iMovies, mail, calendars, contacts.....everything) is already on the iCloud servers synced with my other devices, which is a huge convenience. There is no security downside to me backing up my phone to iCloud. None. The information is already there. ...

Fine, if all your stuff is in iCloud then I will agree that there's literally no security advantage for you to back up your devices locally.

Not everybody is in your same situation.

I notice that you've spent a lot of time arguing that there's no disadvantage to backing up your phone to iCloud but no time telling me what the actual advantage is. Because I'm pretty sure there is no actual advantage. Unless you consider it a chore to plug your phone into your computer once in a while... I do know people who, for some reason, prefer to plug their phones into wall chargers instead of their laptops even though the devices usually sit right next to each other. This, I don't understand. But oh well. It takes all kinds.

 

[Mainsail]

Why would they charge that when they have never done so in the past?

All the base configurations in all their product lines have gotten regular upgrades in storage since Apple started as a company, without increasing prices other than maybe for inflation.

The base model iPhone now has quadruple the storage of the 2014 model. The base model iPad has twice the storage. The base model iMac has twice the storage. The base model Mac Mini has less storage but has been upgraded from hard drive to SSD.

The base model MacBook... nothing since 2014. This is stupid. Software and files get bigger as the years go by. To have the same quality of experience as several years ago, people need more storage. But Apple isn't giving it to us.

The correct reaction to this situation is to be annoyed and disappointed. Most of the people on this thread have the correct reaction. If you don't, that's kinda weird.
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Fine, if all your stuff is in iCloud then I will agree that there's literally no security advantage for you to back up your devices locally.

Not everybody is in your same situation.

I notice that you've spent a lot of time arguing that there's no disadvantage to backing up your phone to iCloud but no time telling me what the actual advantage is. Because I'm pretty sure there is no actual advantage. Unless you consider it a chore to plug your phone into your computer once in a while... I do know people who, for some reason, prefer to plug their phones into wall chargers instead of their laptops even though the devices usually sit right next to each other. This, I don't understand. But oh well. It takes all kinds.

OK. We are good. Here is a question. Not intended to be snarking. When I look at my iPhone Backup it only takes up 4GB of iCloud space (probably because a lot of the data on the phone is already synced to iCloud), but the phone's local storage uses up 22GB. So, if I backed up to my phone to my computer, I assume I would not backup the OS and maybe the Apps, but wouldn't it be significantly more than 4GB? If so, I have to evaluate the marginal cost of 4GB of iCloud space vs potentially purchasing more local storage space on my computer because I am backing up closer to perhaps 16GB locally. This trade off will be different for each person. For me, I already purchased the 50GB of iCloud space so I could sync everything, so the iCloud backup is no big deal. However, if keeping a local backup on my computer compelled me to buy a 256GB SSD, that would come at a pretty steep price of $200.

On the other hand, I could see how someone might have a completely different situation. The marginal cost of more iCloud space would be significantly more than using available local laptop storage for backup.