Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

No user-accessible SIM?

J

joeshell383

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Sep 18, 2006
792
0
It would not surprise me if the next iPhone does not have a user-accessible SIM, due to the current ratio of unlocked iPhones to total iPhones.

Apple and its partners want you to use their networks, even while out of the country, and this might be the perfect way to stop unlocking, or at least present a significant hurdle for many would-be unlockers.

I certainly wouldn't put it past Steve.

What do you think?
 
I think technically GSM phones have to have a SIM card, but I could be totally wrong, can anyone think of a single GSM phone from any manufacturer that does not include a SIM card?
 
would be very good for stolen phones and jailbreaking/unlocking

I know for a fact japan uses this system (japanese ^^) and i find that the stolen phone trade is a lot more under control there, its much easier to block a phone and trace one.

but very bad for transferring contacts and the like, and for people to be able to upgrade to the iphone within carriers (eg. moving up at an upgrade period)
 
7on said:
expect for, of course, Apple's monthly cut of iPhone contracts.
Click to expand...

Which is how much compared to the sale of the physical phone? I'm just saying I would bet they make much much more money on the initial hardware sale than the slice of cash out of the contracts. I would like to see some real statistics on how much they make off of contracts vs how much profit they make from hardware.
 
nomar383 said:
Which is how much compared to the sale of the physical phone? I'm just saying I would bet they make much much more money on the initial hardware sale than the slice of cash out of the contracts. I would like to see some real statistics on how much they make off of contracts vs how much profit they make from hardware.
Click to expand...

I've heard over $400 over the 24 month iphone contract.
 
I don't think they'll do this because, "What if you need to get a new iPhone?". AT&T will have to support telephone numbers through iTunes, not SIM cards.

I think if Apple does anything against unlocking, it'll be software related.
 
nomar383 said:
Which is how much compared to the sale of the physical phone? I'm just saying I would bet they make much much more money on the initial hardware sale than the slice of cash out of the contracts. I would like to see some real statistics on how much they make off of contracts vs how much profit they make from hardware.
Click to expand...

I would seriously doubt that. They have actual money involved in the manufacturing of the phone. They have nothing invested in the residuals created by phone contracts and renewals. AT&T has to provide the technical infrastructure, the support and the billing. Apple sits back and collects a check. There will be far more money beyond the phone.
 
According to rumour, Apple make around $500 from their cut of the CHEAPEST O2 contract, so its not inconsiderable. However, an unaccessible sim would be illegal in France, and even the UK (where telcos must remove barriers to customers swapping providers at the end of the contract period.
 
joeshell383 said:
It would not surprise me if the next iPhone does not have a user-accessible SIM, due to the current ratio of unlocked iPhones to total iPhones.

Apple and its partners want you to use their networks, even while out of the country, and this might be the perfect way to stop unlocking, or at least present a significant hurdle for many would-be unlockers.

I certainly wouldn't put it past Steve.

What do you think?
Click to expand...

Won't happen. SIM cards fail sometimes. I had one fail on me before. I don't think ATT/Apple are going to want to exchange iPhones because of a bad SIM card.
 
nomar383 said:
I think technically GSM phones have to have a SIM card, but I could be totally wrong, can anyone think of a single GSM phone from any manufacturer that does not include a SIM card?
Click to expand...

They all have SIMs, but the SIM need not technically be removable or user accessible...

skubish said:
Won't happen. SIM cards fail sometimes. I had one fail on me before. I don't think ATT/Apple are going to want to exchange iPhones because of a bad SIM card.
Click to expand...

I'd tend to agree... the hassle and cost associated would probably be enough to dissuade them. If not, I'm sure that within 15 minutes of the iPhone being available, a video showing how to use a putty knife and open it and change the SIM will be on Youtube. ;)
 
Lets do some math here. I have a $20 iphone plan with AT&T. Lets give Apple a GENEROUS $10 a month from that. Over the course of two years thats only $240, IF they actually score $10 a month of it. The iPhone plans are almost identical to the rest of the media services they offer, so I don't see Apple being able to demand much of that $20. How do you guys figure the contractual payments to Apple work out math wise?

PS - I know this thread is getting just a wee but hijacked by this lol
 
They can't sell the iPhone in as many places if they were to do this. If they didn't allow user access to the SIM then how would they sell them unlocked in France? and I'm sure other European countries have similar laws.
 
joeshell383 said:
It would not surprise me if the next iPhone does not have a user-accessible SIM, due to the current ratio of unlocked iPhones to total iPhones.

Apple and its partners want you to use their networks, even while out of the country, and this might be the perfect way to stop unlocking, or at least present a significant hurdle for many would-be unlockers.

I certainly wouldn't put it past Steve.

What do you think?
Click to expand...

I highly doubt it since one of the features I have heard possible is memory card slot for expanding the storage.

I also think there are so many problems that are just SIM card related to do such. I had a problem with my first Cingular phone that was fixed by just replacing the little plastic SIM card. That's much cheaper than sending an entire phone back for refurbishing, so equate that into the bottom line.
 
nomar383 said:
Over the course of two years thats only $240, IF they actually score $10 a month of it.
Click to expand...

I think that might be an approximately reasonable number, although you're right, probably high.

But now, you have to put that number in perspective. The iPhones cost $400-500 new. The margins are probably on the order of 50%, and the actual profit probably ends up closer to 25-30% if you account for advertising, R&D, etc. If you do the same accounting on the money coming in from AT&T's contracts, that still means that Apple makes as much from the contract as they do from the iPhone itself.

So, if they sell, say, five million iPhones, and make about $100 in profit off the phone and another $100 in profit off the contract (over two years, but still based on that unit sold, so estimate very roughly for a minute by accruing all profits at the end of the two years), they make $500M in profits if the phone is not activated and $1B in profits if it is.

Half a billion in profits at Apple's size is a significant amount of money.
 
mkrishnan said:
I think that might be an approximately reasonable number, although you're right, probably high.

But now, you have to put that number in perspective. The iPhones cost $400-500 new. The margins are probably on the order of 50%, and the actual profit probably ends up closer to 25-30% if you account for advertising, R&D, etc. If you do the same accounting on the money coming in from AT&T's contracts, that still means that Apple makes as much from the contract as they do from the iPhone itself.

So, if they sell, say, five million iPhones, and make about $100 in profit off the phone and another $100 in profit off the contract (over two years, but still based on that unit sold, so estimate very roughly for a minute by accruing all profits at the end of the two years), they make $500M in profits if the phone is not activated and $1B in profits if it is.

Half a billion in profits at Apple's size is a significant amount of money.
Click to expand...

See that's what I'm talking about! That all makes pretty good sense to me. After much thought I think they probably even out between contracts and hardware, especially considering they can get people to buy each new generation and keep renewing the stupid contract. It's like a wonderful deathtrap for my money.

Also, I think we have determined that the SIM card is a necessity, and will always be changeable somehow.
 
I think apple gets at least $20/month from each iPhone plan on ATT. I am guessing 20 because that is the amount of my corp discount for 450min/1500sms/unlimited data on ATT. If I were to get an iPhone plan, that 20 bucks would goto apple and ATT would be making the same amount off me each month.

I dont plan on getting a 3g iPhone for a while, but I am sure it would be hacked, even with an integrated sim card.
 
NeoMayhem said:
I think apple gets at least $20/month from each iPhone plan on ATT. I am guessing 20 because that is the amount of my corp discount for 450min/1500sms/unlimited data on ATT. If I were to get an iPhone plan, that 20 bucks would goto apple and ATT would be making the same amount off me each month.
Click to expand...

iPhone plans and standard data plans are almost identical. Assuming AT&T actually does have some sort of infrastructure costs to handing out data, wouldn't giving $20 a month to Apple be putting AT&T in the negative? Why on earth would they do that? I am sure not THAT many people are switching to AT&T solely for the iPhone (especially when it is now so easily unlocked), so what wold be AT&T's motivation in making a deal with Apple at all?
 
The Three network tried glueing in their Sims in 2006 but the negative customer response caused them to reconsider. AFAIK they no longer glue the sims in.
 
never

why would thy want to do this ... apple doesn´t care if your phone gets stolen... well, they might because you´re probably gonna buy a new one...if it´s gone...good for apple
apple doesn´t care either if you unlock it because if they really cared they would just do it like here in germany where you have to sign the contract before you even get the phone... so there really is no use in unlocking (glad they don´t do it in the us otherwise i still wouldn´t have one):)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back