No user-accessible SIM?

Discussion in 'iPhone' started by joeshell383, Apr 9, 2008.

  1. joeshell383 macrumors 6502a

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    Sep 18, 2006
    #1
    It would not surprise me if the next iPhone does not have a user-accessible SIM, due to the current ratio of unlocked iPhones to total iPhones.

    Apple and its partners want you to use their networks, even while out of the country, and this might be the perfect way to stop unlocking, or at least present a significant hurdle for many would-be unlockers.

    I certainly wouldn't put it past Steve.

    What do you think?
     
  2. nomar383 macrumors 65816

    nomar383

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    #2
    I think technically GSM phones have to have a SIM card, but I could be totally wrong, can anyone think of a single GSM phone from any manufacturer that does not include a SIM card?
     
  3. Raikun macrumors regular

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    Apr 8, 2008
    #3
    would be very good for stolen phones and jailbreaking/unlocking

    I know for a fact japan uses this system (japanese ^^) and i find that the stolen phone trade is a lot more under control there, its much easier to block a phone and trace one.

    but very bad for transferring contacts and the like, and for people to be able to upgrade to the iphone within carriers (eg. moving up at an upgrade period)
     
  4. nick9191 macrumors 68040

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    #4
    Apple couldn't give a toss, they still get paid. AT&T O2 and TMobile are the ones who are annoyed.
     
  5. 7on macrumors 601

    7on

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    #5
    expect for, of course, Apple's monthly cut of iPhone contracts.
     
  6. nomar383 macrumors 65816

    nomar383

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    #6
    Which is how much compared to the sale of the physical phone? I'm just saying I would bet they make much much more money on the initial hardware sale than the slice of cash out of the contracts. I would like to see some real statistics on how much they make off of contracts vs how much profit they make from hardware.
     
  7. 7on macrumors 601

    7on

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    #7
    I've heard over $400 over the 24 month iphone contract.
     
  8. alansmallen macrumors 6502a

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    #8
    I don't think they'll do this because, "What if you need to get a new iPhone?". AT&T will have to support telephone numbers through iTunes, not SIM cards.

    I think if Apple does anything against unlocking, it'll be software related.
     
  9. Reaktor5 macrumors 6502a

    Reaktor5

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    #9
    That's what I heard too.
    But it probably depends on which plan.
     
  10. avaloncourt macrumors 65816

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    #10
    I would seriously doubt that. They have actual money involved in the manufacturing of the phone. They have nothing invested in the residuals created by phone contracts and renewals. AT&T has to provide the technical infrastructure, the support and the billing. Apple sits back and collects a check. There will be far more money beyond the phone.
     
  11. memesmith macrumors regular

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    Sep 14, 2007
    #11
    According to rumour, Apple make around $500 from their cut of the CHEAPEST O2 contract, so its not inconsiderable. However, an unaccessible sim would be illegal in France, and even the UK (where telcos must remove barriers to customers swapping providers at the end of the contract period.
     
  12. skubish macrumors 68030

    skubish

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    #12
    Won't happen. SIM cards fail sometimes. I had one fail on me before. I don't think ATT/Apple are going to want to exchange iPhones because of a bad SIM card.
     
  13. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

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    Grand Rapids, MI, USA
    #13
    They all have SIMs, but the SIM need not technically be removable or user accessible...

    I'd tend to agree... the hassle and cost associated would probably be enough to dissuade them. If not, I'm sure that within 15 minutes of the iPhone being available, a video showing how to use a putty knife and open it and change the SIM will be on Youtube. ;)
     
  14. nomar383 macrumors 65816

    nomar383

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    #14
    Lets do some math here. I have a $20 iphone plan with AT&T. Lets give Apple a GENEROUS $10 a month from that. Over the course of two years thats only $240, IF they actually score $10 a month of it. The iPhone plans are almost identical to the rest of the media services they offer, so I don't see Apple being able to demand much of that $20. How do you guys figure the contractual payments to Apple work out math wise?

    PS - I know this thread is getting just a wee but hijacked by this lol
     
  15. mrkramer macrumors 603

    mrkramer

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    #15
    They can't sell the iPhone in as many places if they were to do this. If they didn't allow user access to the SIM then how would they sell them unlocked in France? and I'm sure other European countries have similar laws.
     
  16. Michael CM1 macrumors 603

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    #16
    I highly doubt it since one of the features I have heard possible is memory card slot for expanding the storage.

    I also think there are so many problems that are just SIM card related to do such. I had a problem with my first Cingular phone that was fixed by just replacing the little plastic SIM card. That's much cheaper than sending an entire phone back for refurbishing, so equate that into the bottom line.
     
  17. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

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    #17
    I think that might be an approximately reasonable number, although you're right, probably high.

    But now, you have to put that number in perspective. The iPhones cost $400-500 new. The margins are probably on the order of 50%, and the actual profit probably ends up closer to 25-30% if you account for advertising, R&D, etc. If you do the same accounting on the money coming in from AT&T's contracts, that still means that Apple makes as much from the contract as they do from the iPhone itself.

    So, if they sell, say, five million iPhones, and make about $100 in profit off the phone and another $100 in profit off the contract (over two years, but still based on that unit sold, so estimate very roughly for a minute by accruing all profits at the end of the two years), they make $500M in profits if the phone is not activated and $1B in profits if it is.

    Half a billion in profits at Apple's size is a significant amount of money.
     
  18. nomar383 macrumors 65816

    nomar383

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    #18
    See that's what I'm talking about! That all makes pretty good sense to me. After much thought I think they probably even out between contracts and hardware, especially considering they can get people to buy each new generation and keep renewing the stupid contract. It's like a wonderful deathtrap for my money.

    Also, I think we have determined that the SIM card is a necessity, and will always be changeable somehow.
     
  19. NeoMayhem macrumors 6502a

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    Aug 22, 2003
    #19
    I think apple gets at least $20/month from each iPhone plan on ATT. I am guessing 20 because that is the amount of my corp discount for 450min/1500sms/unlimited data on ATT. If I were to get an iPhone plan, that 20 bucks would goto apple and ATT would be making the same amount off me each month.

    I dont plan on getting a 3g iPhone for a while, but I am sure it would be hacked, even with an integrated sim card.
     
  20. nomar383 macrumors 65816

    nomar383

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    #20
    iPhone plans and standard data plans are almost identical. Assuming AT&T actually does have some sort of infrastructure costs to handing out data, wouldn't giving $20 a month to Apple be putting AT&T in the negative? Why on earth would they do that? I am sure not THAT many people are switching to AT&T solely for the iPhone (especially when it is now so easily unlocked), so what wold be AT&T's motivation in making a deal with Apple at all?
     
  21. senorFunkyPants macrumors 6502

    senorFunkyPants

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    #21
    The Three network tried glueing in their Sims in 2006 but the negative customer response caused them to reconsider. AFAIK they no longer glue the sims in.
     
  22. macbookhamburg macrumors regular

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    Jan 3, 2007
    #22
    never

    why would thy want to do this ... apple doesn´t care if your phone gets stolen... well, they might because you´re probably gonna buy a new one...if it´s gone...good for apple
    apple doesn´t care either if you unlock it because if they really cared they would just do it like here in germany where you have to sign the contract before you even get the phone... so there really is no use in unlocking (glad they don´t do it in the us otherwise i still wouldn´t have one):)
     

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