Because Nokia has to die as a company or start making something worth buying and using, because after iPhone changed everything in 2007 Nokia didn't get the message. And their cheap phones really suck, had like 30 different models.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Nokia Files iPhone-Related Suit Against Apple Regarding Wireless Patents
- Thread starter ChazUK
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Because Nokia has to die as a company or start making something worth buying and using, because after iPhone changed everything in 2007 Nokia didn't get the message. And their cheap phones really suck, had like 30 different models.
the chances of an injuction is very very remote. a judge usually will just accept appeal after appeal if it ever gets to that point. and apple will never give nokia squat of their patents.
in general...the company filing the suit (nokia) usually never wins in the end when taking into consideration all of the legal fees, human capital, etc. Relying on your patents is a tough business. You have to rely on innovation to drive you forward with patents used to protect obvious threats to your business.
If this is a hardware patent (or set of hardware patents) I'll actually be surprised it Nokia *does* have a case. There's a concept called 'patent exhaustion', which basically means once you've licensed someone to produce something using the patent, you don't get to charge *their* customers a license fee for using that product.
If Apple's supplier doesn't have a license to use the technology when producing the phone's radio, then they might be in trouble. If their supplier *does* have such a license Apple is in the clear.
If Apple's supplier doesn't have a license to use the technology when producing the phone's radio, then they might be in trouble. If their supplier *does* have such a license Apple is in the clear.
This is just a ploy for Nokia to get a cross-licensing agreement so they too can enable multi-touch and other Apple-related patents into their wares.
Regardless, Nokia is going to be toast in 5 years unless Microsoft makes good on their deal, ports Office to Symbian [don't we all remember Ballmer talking out his a$$ in the same manner in 2000 about porting to PalmOS?], takes an equity stake in Nokia, and integrates Symbian platform to work best with Exchange.
Maybe it'll be a combo meal deal with Nokia going down in flames and burning a few billion of Microsoft's monopoly cash pile too. One can hope.
Edit:
But this is really due to the blundering of Apple not purchasing Palm when it was nearly a penny stock. That would've given Apple an even larger patent portfolio covering PDAs and mobile phones to leverage against the likes of Nokia. Plus, they could've gotten around the AT&T exclusivity contract by "licensing" the iPhone to wholly-owned Palm to market through the other carriers [ a la the Atari/Key Games strategy of 1974]...
Motorola didn't get the message up until recently. They always made great phones - except for the ROKR series - but had the worst software possible. Now that they are embracing Android, I certainly expect them to rise from the dead. Hell, even SonyEricsson might as well. I still think both of those companies should merge. I would love to see HTC and the other jenky mobile phone companies driven from the market...
Regardless, Nokia is going to be toast in 5 years unless Microsoft makes good on their deal, ports Office to Symbian [don't we all remember Ballmer talking out his a$$ in the same manner in 2000 about porting to PalmOS?], takes an equity stake in Nokia, and integrates Symbian platform to work best with Exchange.
Maybe it'll be a combo meal deal with Nokia going down in flames and burning a few billion of Microsoft's monopoly cash pile too. One can hope.
Edit:
But this is really due to the blundering of Apple not purchasing Palm when it was nearly a penny stock. That would've given Apple an even larger patent portfolio covering PDAs and mobile phones to leverage against the likes of Nokia. Plus, they could've gotten around the AT&T exclusivity contract by "licensing" the iPhone to wholly-owned Palm to market through the other carriers [ a la the Atari/Key Games strategy of 1974]...
Motorola didn't get the message up until recently. They always made great phones - except for the ROKR series - but had the worst software possible. Now that they are embracing Android, I certainly expect them to rise from the dead. Hell, even SonyEricsson might as well. I still think both of those companies should merge. I would love to see HTC and the other jenky mobile phone companies driven from the market...
Yeah because we all know how that Palm Lawsuit went.
Apple is in uncharted waters with these smartphones and regardless there we can do whatever we want attitude is and will catch up. Palm and Nokia both hold TONS of IP and patents that I am sure Apple conveniently ignored.
So its ok for Apple to sue people for IP (they do it all the time), but when someone does it to Apple they are losers. Get real. Apple has been hitching a ride on others innovation for a long time and I am glad people are willing to be simply bought out by Apple.
That is different. Apple is not trying to run Nokia's software on iPhone or iPod.
The posters belittling Nokia need a bit of a reality check.
This isn't Psystar we're talking about, it's a $50 billion dollar company with a lot of money in the bank and very good lawyers of their own who aren't suing because they're desperate for cash but rather to protect their patents.
I can't believe how many people are siding with Apple just because they make your computer/phone/portable music player of choice...
This isn't Psystar we're talking about, it's a $50 billion dollar company with a lot of money in the bank and very good lawyers of their own who aren't suing because they're desperate for cash but rather to protect their patents.
I can't believe how many people are siding with Apple just because they make your computer/phone/portable music player of choice...
Nokia sells way more smartphones than Apple does so your argument is a little silly.
Also, the loss Nokia made was entirely in it's Nokia-Siemens division which does back end infrastructure and has been a complete shambles - nothing to do with their handsets.
Time to take it to court
Good for Apple to not just pay, take it to court, lets see how these patents stand up to scrutiny. I just started to study about Patents and Copyright Laws, and dam are they a convoluted. Lots of large companies have patents that are so broad that they explain nothing and bring nothing new to what was already know but because they got there first and made it so broad they can keep these patents going for ever.
Go for it apple let see how far they can get in court. Lets see if we can get new real laws to fix these Laws, even if I have to study it again.
Good for Apple to not just pay, take it to court, lets see how these patents stand up to scrutiny. I just started to study about Patents and Copyright Laws, and dam are they a convoluted. Lots of large companies have patents that are so broad that they explain nothing and bring nothing new to what was already know but because they got there first and made it so broad they can keep these patents going for ever.
Go for it apple let see how far they can get in court. Lets see if we can get new real laws to fix these Laws, even if I have to study it again.
So, no Nokia phone will ever have touchscreen or use of fingers to scroll, or pinch effect to zoom in or out, or virtual keyboard on any of their branded phones, or app store, regardless of the OS like Google's Android, HTC Touch... because they will be riding on the backs of Apple's innovation without just compensation...
C'mon Apple Legal... Steve, start defending those patents you talked about at the iPhone's introduction several years back!
C'mon Apple Legal... Steve, start defending those patents you talked about at the iPhone's introduction several years back!
I wonder if Apple has any patents on Newton, precursor of PDA and smart phones.
Do you think apple goes to the patent office, reads nokia's patents, and copy it?
Those patents seem overly broad. The system is broken.
FYI, Apple typically always acquire the proper agreement when it comes to intellectual property, but Apple typically rather fight patent trolls when it comes to obvious technology.
I wonder, other than Apple, is there any other company out there that you actually like? Or is it all **** to you?
Welcome to the church of apple.
They are blind to the fact apple has its own history of stealing ideas if it can not buy them. If some one does not agree to what apple says it is worth apple turns around and copies them and gives them nothing.
I could be wrong, but with Apple developing it's own operating system and software solutions it's far more likely that Apple came up with their own code to execute the functions Nokia is claiming infringement on. One of the main differences between a computer company entering the market and a company that has no OS development expertise entering is that the OS company's main area of competency is making operating system code work with various hardware without having to cherry pick ideas. I think Nokia just wants to pull Apple into a long expensive legal battle versus watching their patent portfolio get berated and plummet in value over the next decade. I also thikn that they don't have a clear idea about how Apple's technologies work and win or lose they could, through legal exploratory processes, find out more about Apple's technologies. Either way, my sense about it is that this will not turn out the way Nokia would like it to.
That's not the way it works. It first can take a while to figure out the infringement, and then you don't sue until after another year or so of negotiations.
The best assumption is that Apple has refused to come to terms, and needs a nudge.
Companies have to protect their IP. Just like Apple suing Psystar. Or did you think Apple was desperate, too?
Bs
I call BS on Nokia's suit. I don't have a lot of info to go off of here, but based on reports so far... BS. First of all, Apple & Lucent brought WiFi technology to market, so Nokia can't say anything about that. Second, to my knowledge cellular radios existed long before Nokia did, so I don't think they can say anything about that either. I think they're just pissed that Apple is building a better phone than they are, and instead of putting more effort into making a better product, they're asking the court to eliminate their competition.
I call BS on Nokia's suit. I don't have a lot of info to go off of here, but based on reports so far... BS. First of all, Apple & Lucent brought WiFi technology to market, so Nokia can't say anything about that. Second, to my knowledge cellular radios existed long before Nokia did, so I don't think they can say anything about that either. I think they're just pissed that Apple is building a better phone than they are, and instead of putting more effort into making a better product, they're asking the court to eliminate their competition.
Which patents?
Which patents are Nokia saying they are violating?
Nokia is generally doing OK, so I doubt this is just another SCO-type case. This could be a ploy to get Apple to cross licenses its iPhone patents with Nokia in a settlement. http://www.mad4mobilephones.com/the-21-most-important-iphone-patents/562/
Which patents are Nokia saying they are violating?
Nokia is generally doing OK, so I doubt this is just another SCO-type case. This could be a ploy to get Apple to cross licenses its iPhone patents with Nokia in a settlement. http://www.mad4mobilephones.com/the-21-most-important-iphone-patents/562/
Funny! Nokia wakes up two years later and... hey why aren't we selling any phones?
disagreement over terms
A lot of folks here are assuming either that Apple won't pay up like everyone else or that Nokia is out to get Apple. The info in the article was so vague that we can't really figure out which it is. Most likely, though, Apple intended to play along but Nokia set up some special terms and conditions for Apple that they are unwilling to concede. Apple is probably willing to say, "we'll pay this much, b/c that's what you charge others," but Nokia probably wants a cost-sharing model or, more likely, patent concessions.
A lot of folks here are assuming either that Apple won't pay up like everyone else or that Nokia is out to get Apple. The info in the article was so vague that we can't really figure out which it is. Most likely, though, Apple intended to play along but Nokia set up some special terms and conditions for Apple that they are unwilling to concede. Apple is probably willing to say, "we'll pay this much, b/c that's what you charge others," but Nokia probably wants a cost-sharing model or, more likely, patent concessions.
Sorry, but no.
I actually own Nokia devices.
All of the Symbian ones run Opera-mini (no webkit).
All of the Maemo ones (N800, N810, soon N900) run Opera-mini or Mozila microb (precursor to fennec) (again, no webkit).
They might have an add-on for a webkit based browser, or they may have shipped some models with a webkit based browser ... but the claim that they'd have NO browers on their phones at all, if it weren't for webkit, is 100% pure BS.
The original iPhone changed nothing much. At least for countries with vaguely good mobile networks that subsidised very expensive phones (e.g. not the US). It was incredibly overpriced and lacked a whole host of features in both the hardware and software departments. The only thing it had going for it was the screen and the UI.
Apple have done three things since then: Corrected most of their initial mistakes, created a way to keep total control of the phone but allow applications to run (App Store) and marketed the hell out if it.
I don't expect that to reach many on here. When you have Apple lemmings at keynotes giving applause for "MMS" and "Copy & Paste" for this phone that "Changed Everything" you do wonder for the sanity of some people.
Nokia have every right to go after Apple. I bet if Nokia were suing a Windows Phone maker you wouldn't give a crap. If it's Apple you must draw your swords and defend them to the death.
Oh and Nokia's "Web" website browser uses WebKit. Not that is matters since WebKit isn't really "Apple" as it's OpenSource. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_Browser_for_S60 . Newer devices might use something different mind. It'll also depend on mobile network branding and the like too.