Nokia says: "Without Nokia iPhone would be only iPod"

Hellhammer

Moderator emeritus
Original poster
Dec 10, 2008
22,076
580
Finland
Finland's technical's academy's technology professor Jukka Manner says that Apple's popular iPhone wouldn't even be a phone without Nokia's patented inventions.

All patents are about radio communication and wireless data transfer and simply phone doesn't work without them.

Apple seems to be underdog in patent dispute because 40 other mobile phone companies have agrees Nokia's contract terms and paid the money.

In worst scenario, Apple would have to pay 12$ per sold iPhone which would be 408 million dollars at the moment.
 

ctt1wbw

macrumors 68000
Jan 17, 2008
1,729
0
Seaford VA
It took Nokia three years to figure this out? So a company waits until something gets popular and threatens its income then decides to sue them?
 

Flhusky

macrumors 6502a
Aug 28, 2007
628
0
Florida
Apple thumbed their noses @ Nokias' patents, refusing to play the game. As with any legal issue it takes time to get moving. Little impact on the the end users so I doubt we hear much till its settled.
 

OllyW

Moderator
Staff member
Oct 11, 2005
16,747
6,364
The Black Country, England
It took Nokia three years to figure this out? So a company waits until something gets popular and threatens its income then decides to sue them?
No, they have been negotiating with Apple over licensing the patents for quite a while but couldn't come to an agreement, hence the lawsuit.

Apple would do exactly the same if any of their patents were being used in the same way.
 

matttye

macrumors 601
Mar 25, 2009
4,953
30
Lincoln, England
It took Nokia three years to figure this out? So a company waits until something gets popular and threatens its income then decides to sue them?
I couldn't find an up to date figure but Nokia had 36% of world market share for mobile phones at the end of 2008.

In April, Apple had 1.5% of world market share.

Yeah, I'm sure Nokia is quaking in its boots ;)
 

gloss

macrumors 601
May 9, 2006
4,811
0
around/about
I couldn't find an up to date figure but Nokia had 36% of world market share for mobile phones at the end of 2008.

In April, Apple had 1.5% of world market share.

Yeah, I'm sure Nokia is quaking in its boots ;)
According to this CNN Money blog, Nokia holds 40% of the world smartphone market (where Apple competes). This is down from 43% last year. Meanwhile, Apple's market share has doubled from 6% to 12% in the last year.

In the US, Nokia holds a measly 3% of the market, where Apple holds 22%.

So yes, Nokia is quaking in its boots. An upstart in the industry has visibly affected their market share after only a couple of years. That is very much something to worry about.
 

cube

macrumors P6
May 10, 2004
16,432
4,439
According to this CNN Money blog, Nokia holds 40% of the world smartphone market (where Apple competes). This is down from 43% last year. Meanwhile, Apple's market share has doubled from 6% to 12% in the last year.

In the US, Nokia holds a measly 3% of the market, where Apple holds 22%.

So yes, Nokia is quaking in its boots. An upstart in the industry has visibly affected their market share after only a couple of years. That is very much something to worry about.
Don't confuse total phone market share with smartphone market share.
 

gloss

macrumors 601
May 9, 2006
4,811
0
around/about
Don't confuse total phone market share with smartphone market share.
I'm not. But because Apple competes with them only in the smartphone market, it seems sensible to focus there. It's a high-cost, high-margin sector, and their precipitous and continuing drop in share thanks to Apple and RIM is no doubt worrisome.
 

mrochester

macrumors 68000
Feb 8, 2009
1,882
359
It'll be really interesting to see the outcome of this. Either way, I think Apple will lose out in some way, whether it be they cross-license some of their patents with Nokia, or have to pay out a lump sum to cover all iPhones that have been sold so far.
 

mgamber

macrumors 6502a
Jun 12, 2008
816
0
1966
It'll be really interesting to see the outcome of this. Either way, I think Apple will lose out in some way, whether it be they cross-license some of their patents with Nokia, or have to pay out a lump sum to cover all iPhones that have been sold so far.
And Apple should lose out. Last I read, Apple had just cracked 1% of the worldwide cellphone market while Nokia had 38.5%. Samsung was in second place with 16.5%. 38.5 to 1....maybe Apple should have thought things through before deciding the real world with laws and patents doesn't apply to them.

I'm citing overall cellphone shares because that's what counts. Limiting the numbers to only smartphones because that's all Apple has is meaningless. Nokia could stop selling all it's smartphones right now and still rake in enough money to grind Apple into the ground. And they'd still own the patents they're suing Apple over.
 

MacKiddyWiddy

macrumors 6502
Aug 18, 2009
359
0
i'd like to see the outcome of this... i can just imagine that apple will win and one day hoppefully nokia will just quit their constant winging about everything that isnt nokia
 

milani

macrumors 68000
Aug 8, 2008
1,665
0
Apple thumbed their noses @ Nokias' patents, refusing to play the game. As with any legal issue it takes time to get moving. Little impact on the the end users so I doubt we hear much till its settled.
Perhaps rightfully so. Nokia certainly wasn't putting any of those patents to good use in terms of innovation. The courts will settle it, but the damage has already been done. Nokia's marketshare is falling and will probably continue to do so - and rightfully so because they got comfortable and stopped innovating.
 

MikhailT

macrumors 601
Nov 12, 2007
4,332
827
Finland's technical's academy's technology professor Jukka Manner says that Apple's popular iPhone wouldn't even be a phone without Nokia's patented inventions.

All patents are about radio communication and wireless data transfer and simply phone doesn't work without them.

Apple seems to be underdog in patent dispute because 40 other mobile phone companies have agrees Nokia's contract terms and paid the money.

In worst scenario, Apple would have to pay 12$ per sold iPhone which would be 408 million dollars at the moment.
Other than Apple losing some money due to this, nobody gives a crap about this. Apple will either pay a large fine or settle it and get granted a license. This crap happens all the time, it is of no issue for most of us.

Also this thread topic is misleading, some professor said this, not Nokia. This professor to me sounds like an idiot saying that iPhone is the result of Nokia and not Apple. Nokia could've come up with it's own iPhone years ago, and they may have but still failed to grab the public's attention the way Apple did. Nokia is losing a lot of money, so they resort to the only thing they can do, get it by suing and taking advantage of their patents instead of making their own competitor against iPhone.

I honestly still think software patents are hindering the innovation and the free market values and all hardware patents that's not being used or whatever should be revoked and placed in public domain. I don't give a crap that Nokia had a patent on some communication, if they don't do anything about it, I say revoke the patent and give it to the public domain so that any company can take advantage. The market will determine the rest. Also, don't care if Nokia spent billions on that patent either, somebody else could've come up with it and could've done something with it. Why should every company be prevented from inventing their own stuff just because somebody else came up with it first? This patent system is stupid.
 

mrochester

macrumors 68000
Feb 8, 2009
1,882
359
Nokia do do something with their patents - they make many millions of phones. If Apple wants to be in the phone Market, they need to play by the rules, even if that means paying Nokia a fee for each and every iPhone sold. If it wasn't for Nokias R&D, the iPhone wouldn't exist as we know it, so it's right for Nokia to be compensated in some way.

Other than Apple losing some money due to this, nobody gives a crap about this. Apple will either pay a large fine or settle it and get granted a license. This crap happens all the time, it is of no issue for most of us.

Also this thread topic is misleading, some professor said this, not Nokia. This professor to me sounds like an idiot saying that iPhone is the result of Nokia and not Apple. Nokia could've come up with it's own iPhone years ago, and they may have but still failed to grab the public's attention the way Apple did. Nokia is losing a lot of money, so they resort to the only thing they can do, get it by suing and taking advantage of their patents instead of making their own competitor against iPhone.

I honestly still think software patents are hindering the innovation and the free market values and all hardware patents that's not being used or whatever should be revoked and placed in public domain. I don't give a crap that Nokia had a patent on some communication, if they don't do anything about it, I say revoke the patent and give it to the public domain so that any company can take advantage. The market will determine the rest. Also, don't care if Nokia spent billions on that patent either, somebody else could've come up with it and could've done something with it. Why should every company be prevented from inventing their own stuff just because somebody else came up with it first? This patent system is stupid.
 

MikhailT

macrumors 601
Nov 12, 2007
4,332
827
Nokia do do something with their patents - they make many millions of phones. If Apple wants to be in the phone Market, they need to play by the rules, even if that means paying Nokia a fee for each and every iPhone sold. If it wasn't for Nokias R&D, the iPhone wouldn't exist as we know it, so it's right for Nokia to be compensated in some way.
I was talking about the patent system in general using Nokia as an example.

Also, Nokia should've play by the rule by filing a lawsuit against Apple years ago instead of now, waiting for an agreement with Apple isn't an excuse to hold Apple ransom for all their devices that were sold since.

We have seen many cases where companies intentionally wait until the product becomes so successful, they'll attack the companies with IP lawsuits to get the profits. It's far more profitable doing so, yet completely immoral.

Of course, there are bad things that Apple has done, i'm not defending them totally for this, I just hate Nokia more in this case because they waited this long to sue Apple. They can sue Apple 3 years ago and can settle at anytime, the negotiations isn't an excuse to delay a lawsuit.
 

rjohnstone

macrumors 68040
Dec 28, 2007
3,483
3,398
PHX, AZ.
I just hate Nokia more in this case because they waited this long to sue Apple. They can sue Apple 3 years ago and can settle at anytime, the negotiations isn't an excuse to delay a lawsuit.
You have no clue how the legal system works do you.

You don't sue someone WHILE your in negotiations. :rolleyes:

You sue them when the negotiations fail to produce a result.

I hope Nokia spanks Apple good for this.
Apple is riding on Nokia's R&D. Nokia should get paid.
 

fishmoose

macrumors 68000
Jul 1, 2008
1,658
41
Sweden
I don't see the big deal, I'm sure lawsuits like these goes around very often. It will be settled out of court and after that nobody will care. Patent lawsuits is probably more common then we can imagine.
 

MikhailT

macrumors 601
Nov 12, 2007
4,332
827
You have no clue how the legal system works do you.

You don't sue someone WHILE your in negotiations. :rolleyes:

You sue them when the negotiations fail to produce a result.

I hope Nokia spanks Apple good for this.
Apple is riding on Nokia's R&D. Nokia should get paid.
You misunderstood me, of course neither party is going to sue each other while in an on-going negotiations. What I meant was that Nokia did not have to wait three years to start suing Apple. Nokia did what many companies did, wait it out because they don't want to waste money on settling the case too early where the offenders could totally fail in the market, but once the offenders start to make serious progress with profit and market share, that's the time to hit them with a lawsuit. Why should the offenders pay for every sales when the original owners are aware and decides to wait it out to get more money? There should be a time limit between when a company can be sued for every sale and instead get a percentage of sales after the lawsuit, not before.

Neither one of us or anybody here knows what occurred between both companies in the last three years, that's a fact. So I could be wrong here, but that's beside the point.
 

aristotle

macrumors 68000
Mar 13, 2007
1,763
5
Canada
Frankly, I think the EU should investigate those firms who charging such a high fee for companies entering into the market later as it creates an unfair barrier for entry. It is anticompetitive and smells of price fixing to me.

Nokia should be investigated by the EU. I know it is not going to happen as their like to protect their own but, as an EU/Finnish citizen, I feel strongly that they should be investigated.