Non OS X Alternatives to OS X Yosemite

[grahamperrin]

Beginning today I have, for evaluation purposes, a new MacBookPro11,4 (MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, mid 2015).

Now using Yosemite to download the most recent installer for PC-BSD. I'll see how that OS behaves with the hardware …

… and then attempt installation of Mavericks. If the firmware will allow it. Fingers crossed.

 

[Altemose]

… and then attempt installation of Mavericks. If the firmware will allow it. Fingers crossed.

I am not sure Mavericks would even boot let alone install on that machine...

 

[grahamperrin]

MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, mid 2015) versus PC-BSD

… I'll see how that OS behaves with the hardware …

No go.

PC-BSD on an Ergo Vista 631

Fun. Here are some screenshots from mid-June.

System Monitor



KDE



Lumina



Openbox

 

[grahamperrin]

Minimalism

From a topic about OS X:

… auto-hiding menu bar …

In El Capitan can auto-hide the menu bar | Apple Developer Forums (2015-06-15), RedBear wrote:

… This is the Holy Grail for those of us who like to minimize visual distractions and unnecessary stuff being displayed on the screen, but still want to work with multiple windows at the same time and use all available screen space. …

lefrax0412 replied:

… I really love this new feature giving me a clean and empty desktop.

– more from @RedBear (presumably the same person) at https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/21462440

The Openbox desktop environment, shown in my previous post, is very minimal. I don't expect it to appeal to Mac users but it's thought-provoking. A simple comparison …

• OS X: key a shortcut (e.g. Command-Space) for Spotlight, enter all or part of the word firefox
• Openbox: right-click, xterm, enter firefox

MATE Desktop Environment



The title bar intrigued me.

Firefox, with a preference to draw tabs in the title bar, but that preference can not override the standard appearance of the bar that's drawn by MATE:



Web, a new window, not maximised –



– and maximised:



Pointing at a normal header bar of GNOME Web; that's below a title bar:



An address, clicked:



My home directory:

 

[grahamperrin]

Midori in MATE with the BlackMATE theme:

 

[lowendlinux]

Mate is my desktop of choice I've even run it on a few older Mac's I have laying around

 

[RedBear]

Minimalism

From a topic about OS X:

In El Capitan can auto-hide the menu bar | Apple Developer Forums (2015-06-15), RedBear wrote:

lefrax0412 replied:

– more from @RedBear (presumably the same person) at https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/21462440

How dare you presume that I am the same person as myself. Why, I've never heard of such a thing. I'm outraged by the very implication. In all my days I've never been the same person. Not even once. I utterly reject the possibility.

Land sakes, what is this world coming to? I tell you what.

 

[grahamperrin]

… my desktop of choice …

With MATE with PC-BSD, I can't find an option to suspend. Maybe in a future release.

From the Yosemite area:

… I have seen design ideas in some Linux distros that I like, such as those in Elementary, Ubuntu, even SUSE. …

… You can now make your Windows PC look just like Yosemite!

http://www.thememypc.com/yosemite-transformation-pack-2-0/

…

With a mutual understanding that I might like PC-BSD to appear traditionally Mac-like (not like Yosemite), I wondered: Which desktop environments might suit a Mac-like appearance? (Like elementary OS).

The keyword is probably Pantheon. Any other suggestions?

 

[grahamperrin]

Openbox with Plank:

 

[2984839]

With MATE with PC-BSD, I can't find an option to suspend. Maybe in a future release.

From the Yosemite area:





With a mutual understanding that I might like PC-BSD to appear traditionally Mac-like (not like Yosemite), I wondered: Which desktop environments might suit a Mac-like appearance? (Like elementary OS).

The keyword is probably Pantheon. Any other suggestions?

There are OS X themes for many popular windows managers or desktop environments, of varying quality. There is one for Enlightenment, but it was buggy IIRC. XFCE has one that looks decent. I believe someone made one for KDE as well. If you install what you want, then Google for OS X themes, you should be able to find one or two.

Are you running PC-BSD on the MBP?

 

[throAU]

So with that said, what are the latest/greatest versions of alternatives to Macs? One nice thing will be not having to pay through the teeth for Apple hardware.

What is your use case?

If you need to do anything serious with audio or video, your only other real alternative that has professional quality apps in that space is Windows.

If not, some variant of Linux (pick the desktop environment of your choice, they all run the same kernel).

Be aware that running Linux inevitably ends up with a collection of inconsistent apps using 3 different toolkits, key shortcuts, etc. on your desktop that each do maybe 70% of what you want to get a typical job done. How much that annoys you only you can decide.

Personally, IMHO OS X is going to have to drop a LONG way to make me start considering Linux on the desktop again (and I've been there, done that regularly since the mid 90s).

There are things in OS X that annoy me, but i'm not giving up the integration, battery life, UI consistency, etc.

Plenty of Linux desktops try to mimic the OS X GUI on the surface, but the underlying platform is just nothing like Cocoa and the quality of the applications available reflects this.

 

[grahamperrin]

… PC-BSD on the MBP?

No; please see above.

OS X … UI consistency …

For me that ended with Yosemite; https://diigo.com/075ikk

Plenty of Linux desktops try to mimic the OS X GUI on the surface, but the underlying platform is just nothing like Cocoa and the quality of the applications available reflects this.

There are plenty of mediocre or poor quality apps for OS X and it's increasingly, absurdly difficult for good apps to gain recognition in the App Store.

Is there a shortage of good quality apps for third party alternatives to the Yosemite DE?

 

[throAU]

There are plenty of mediocre or poor quality apps for OS X and it's increasingly, absurdly difficult for good apps to gain recognition in the App Store.

Is there a shortage of good quality apps for third party alternatives to the Yosemite DE?

Sure, there are crappy apps on the Mac.

My point is that the state of toolkits on Linux means that writing a decent app for that platform is a lot more difficult.


And if you think UI consistency is bad in Yosemite... lol. Seriously dude. Use Linux for a few weeks. Discover that to get anything done you'll be using apps written with completely different toolkits... there are no standard keyboard shortcuts across toolkits.

Never mind that the free software world is full of applications that start with the best of intentions until things get too hard, the developer doesn't maintain the app any more and then someone else starts a replacement and reinvents the wheel... gets to the same point, it gets too hard, rinse repeat... Linux isn't a heap better on the desktop as far as applications go in 2015 than it was in 2000. Because the developers keep trashing stuff that works to reinvent it - rather than refining what is actually being used.

If you want to ditch OS X and actually have useful software, unless you're a network admin or like putting up with half-assed stuff, your best bet is unfortunately Windows.

Don't get me wrong. The linux kernel is great. But a lot of the stuff on top of it (X11, applications) is rather sketchy.

I mean quite often even basic stuff doesn't work. Like for example your application may or may not be able to see network shares when opening a file. Drag and drop from the network may not open from the network... but copy the entire file to the local system before opening, etc. Which sucks if you want to watch a 4 gig DVD rip off a network share for example. Rather than opening immediately, you're waiting for a copy over WIFI. Why is this? Because the libraries are not there. OS X has system libraries to handle this stuff in an OS-wide consistent manner. Linux? Every app/toolkit re-invents the wheel in inconsistent ways. So sometimes your file-open box will show the network. Sometimes it won't. Depends who wrote the app and what tools they used.

Those are just a few examples of stuff that is still broken in 2015, depending on the app under Linux. A lot of the basic stuff you take for granted just doesn't always work.

I say all this as someone who started with Linux on the desktop in 1995 and got sick of waiting for things to be fixed. I've seen 2 steps forward, 2 steps back for about 20 years now.

 

[grahamperrin]

no standard keyboard shortcuts across toolkits

So far, with the DEs in PC-BSD I have wished for only two shortcuts: Show Next Tab and Show Previous Tab. I choose to not learn until after I have chosen the browser that best suits my needs.

(With OS X I still use the shortcuts originally given by Apple; not the ones that appear in the menus.)

Postscript

In LXTerm I see Control-Page down and Control-Page up.

 

[lowendlinux]

Minimalism

From a topic about OS X:



In El Capitan can auto-hide the menu bar | Apple Developer Forums (2015-06-15), RedBear wrote:



lefrax0412 replied:



– more from @RedBear (presumably the same person) at https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/21462440

The Openbox desktop environment, shown in my previous post, is very minimal. I don't expect it to appeal to Mac users but it's thought-provoking. A simple comparison …

• OS X: key a shortcut (e.g. Command-Space) for Spotlight, enter all or part of the word firefox
• Openbox: right-click, xterm, enter firefox

MATE Desktop Environment

View attachment 563856

The title bar intrigued me.

Firefox, with a preference to draw tabs in the title bar, but that preference can not override the standard appearance of the bar that's drawn by MATE:

View attachment 563855

Web, a new window, not maximised –

View attachment 563853

– and maximised:

View attachment 563852

Pointing at a normal header bar of GNOME Web; that's below a title bar:

View attachment 563851

An address, clicked:

View attachment 563854

My home directory:

View attachment 563857

Kupfer/Synapse set the launcher to alt space and you are golden.

Sure, there are crappy apps on the Mac.

My point is that the state of toolkits on Linux means that writing a decent app for that platform is a lot more difficult.


And if you think UI consistency is bad in Yosemite... lol. Seriously dude. Use Linux for a few weeks. Discover that to get anything done you'll be using apps written with completely different toolkits... there are no standard keyboard shortcuts across toolkits.

Never mind that the free software world is full of applications that start with the best of intentions until things get too hard, the developer doesn't maintain the app any more and then someone else starts a replacement and reinvents the wheel... gets to the same point, it gets too hard, rinse repeat... Linux isn't a heap better on the desktop as far as applications go in 2015 than it was in 2000. Because the developers keep trashing stuff that works to reinvent it - rather than refining what is actually being used.

If you want to ditch OS X and actually have useful software, unless you're a network admin or like putting up with half-assed stuff, your best bet is unfortunately Windows.

Don't get me wrong. The linux kernel is great. But a lot of the stuff on top of it (X11, applications) is rather sketchy.

I mean quite often even basic stuff doesn't work. Like for example your application may or may not be able to see network shares when opening a file. Drag and drop from the network may not open from the network... but copy the entire file to the local system before opening, etc. Which sucks if you want to watch a 4 gig DVD rip off a network share for example. Rather than opening immediately, you're waiting for a copy over WIFI. Why is this? Because the libraries are not there. OS X has system libraries to handle this stuff in an OS-wide consistent manner. Linux? Every app/toolkit re-invents the wheel in inconsistent ways. So sometimes your file-open box will show the network. Sometimes it won't. Depends who wrote the app and what tools they used.

Those are just a few examples of stuff that is still broken in 2015, depending on the app under Linux. A lot of the basic stuff you take for granted just doesn't always work.

I say all this as someone who started with Linux on the desktop in 1995 and got sick of waiting for things to be fixed. I've seen 2 steps forward, 2 steps back for about 20 years now.

I've been a desktop Linux user at home for 10 years and I've not had any of the issues you talked about.

 

[2984839]

Kupfer/Synapse set the launcher to alt space and you are golden.



I've been a desktop Linux user at home for 10 years and I've not had any of the issues you talked about.

Neither have I and I have used Linux and BSD exclusively since 2010. I've never owned a computer that ran OS X so I can't comment on that but generally, getting Windows to see other Windows computers or printers on the network is more of a pain than getting Linux or BSD to do the same in my experience.

 

[lowendlinux]

To show how far Linux has come with tool kits MakeMKV is the only QT app I have installed and it's been pretty well integrated into my GTK environment.

 

[throAU]

Kupfer/Synapse set the launcher to alt space and you are golden.



I've been a desktop Linux user at home for 10 years and I've not had any of the issues you talked about.

Then perhaps you aren't trying to do some of the basic things that work properly in other operating systems, they way they operate in other operating systems.

 

[lowendlinux]

Then perhaps you aren't trying to do some of the basic things that work properly in other operating systems, they way they operate in other operating systems.

Or perhaps I watch what the terminal tells me are optional depends so I can install them so it's works correctly

 

[throAU]

To show how far Linux has come with tool kits MakeMKV is the only QT app I have installed and it's been pretty well integrated into my GTK environment.

View attachment 564980

Yes there is some progress. But try and drag/drop some media from your KDE file explorer to VLC for example and watch it copy over the network to a temporary location before playing.

Or perhaps I watch what the terminal tells me are optional depends so I can install them so it's works correctly

Well perhaps some distributions need to fix their default out of the box environment.

 

[grahamperrin]

Four days ago (Saturday):

With what I expect to replace Apple software, I intentionally use hardware that's not entirely comfortable. Most recently: a mediocre trackball instead of a good mouse, a massive Macally ikey that's usually under the table or set aside on cushions, with the notebook (Ergo Vista) higher than I'd like and somewhat faraway (on a laptop stand, behind a MacBook Pro).

So when the time comes for replacement, I'll have not only the pleasure of the software; I can add the pleasure of appropriate hardware.

Since then at home I have had more free time than usual, so I literally brought forward the notebook with PC-BSD. Towards me, and down to desk level. First to my right, using it just occasionally. Discovering more about the desktop environments, window managers, web browsers, file managers and so on. At some point I set aside the Mac notebook and began treating PC-BSD as a primary system to see whether it's ready for me.

To my surprise, Firefox has become my preferred browser on this OS. MozTweak - Addons.Mozilla.Org Enhancer deserves a special mention. I'll add more thoughts about Firefox under What browser are you currently using?.

Much of KDE is simply gorgeous. The multiple desktops, hot corners, hot top and so on. No need for Plank, I have a panel to the left of the display.

I have not yet found a way to produce special characters from key combinations, but there's no rush.

If I need to use Citrix Receiver I might try it in Wine.

I have not yet found an acceptable file manager. Maybe because I'm addicted to Miller columns, I love Finder.

 

[grahamperrin]

Two days ago: Official PC-BSD Blog » 10.2-PRE-RELEASE and 11.0-CURRENT Images Available for Testing

Bleeding edge technologies are fine with me, so last night I stepped the 2009 notebook in the 11.0 direction –

sudo pc-updatemanager chbranch 11.0-CURRENTJULY2015

– then went to bed. This morning I accepted the invitation to restart. Phase two completed in thirty-two minutes. I should expect a more modern computer, with a hybrid or solid state drive, to complete much faster.

Recognising the hard disk drive as an occasional bottleneck, a few days ago I aimed to use opensnoop but the command wasn't recognised. This morning I realised: no DTraceTookit, so I used AppCafe for the installation.

There's the expected blood from some of the DEs, including GNOME – mayb but KDE seems fine.

Next up: an ssh daemon and VNC service, so that I can test and control remotely from the comfort of Mavericks. And figure out why I can't get the clock to show London time instead of Riga time. All done.

 

[grahamperrin]

Using KDE in PC-BSD … I imagined that it would be difficult to create shortcuts for the ellipsis character, en dash and so on. Eventually I found answers under a question in the Ask Ubuntu area of Stack Exchange:

• How can I input punctuation marks like ellipsis?

Then with that key phrase Compose Key I found more of what I wanted in the Input Manager pane of System Preferences:



I can change the key if I want, but I'll probably stick with the default Control-Shift.

Also without a system setting, I assigned Control-Space bar (traditionally associated with Spotlight on many Macs) to Kickoff Application Launcher.

… no standard keyboard shortcuts across toolkits …

True, but Control keys for next tab, previous tab and so on are reasonably consistent in most of the apps that I find myself using so I'm happy enough so far. Touch wood.

Next up for me: find a file manager that offers Miller columns …

 

[grahamperrin]

For people with an interest in icons in alternatives to Yosemite and/or El Capitan, here's a shot of KDE with:

• a multimedia category of apps
• PCManFM

The icons shown in my use of PCManFM differ significantly from those shown at http://wiki.lxde.org/en/File:PCMan_File_Manager.png :

There's parallel discussion of recent icons for iTunes and some other apps on OS X.


Postscript

This more recent screenshot (2015-07-12) fits with part of a topic about uBar:

 

[grahamperrin]

Development preview version 0.8.7 of the Lumina desktop environment (DE) includes:

• Insight file manager – vaguely comparable to Finder, but without Miller columns.

When Lumina is used with ZFS-based PC-BSD, there's an integrated timeline of automated snapshots of the file system. Comparable to Mobile Time Machine, but without requiring the star field to browse the past.

Two screen shots, the first of which shows an Insight window to my desktop as it was at 16:29 today – before I removed a file named 8.4.png –



What was removed can be opened, and so on.

Without browsing snapshots

Insight defaults to showing the file system in its current state:



Postscript

Sorry about the disappearance of attachments. It sometimes happens with some browsers with XenForo; the images are present whilst composing a post but missing when posted.