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SSDs are a waste of money at this point. For smaller systems where every extra bit of speed and performance is crucial (netbooks, nettops, etc.) then a small SSD is better than an HDD. Those systems tend to store very little data.

For bigger systems like desktops and full feature laptops, SSDs are a waste of money. It offers very little performance gains. All the benchmarks I've seen simply state "I can open X number of apps in like 1 second!" or something along the lines. There are no real world performance gains. If I open Word in 0.5 seconds as opposed to 10 seconds even, would I pay more than 5x the cost per GB? No.

I can get a nice 1TB HDD for about $100. I don't have to worry about disk space constraints. For the same $100, I can't even get an 80GB SSD. I'm no power user but I'm currently using about 100GB out of my 320GB HD. I don't have a photo library either.

Conclusion: If I were smart, I'd put that $100 into a better processor or graphics card. Or even better, into a bank account.

What do you consider as "real world performance gains"? It's not just opening apps, everything is faster using an SSD. If you use your computer all day for productivity, everything adds up at the end of the day. Luckily, I was "smart" and invested in an SSD which allows me to use "my" computer in a more efficient way. Your needs might be completely different, hence the justification of SSDs as "waste of money", and I'll respect that...
 
Although you have some valid points, this is the most "pessimistic" post regarding SSDs. You make it sound like HDDs come with zero issues, they dont fail and require any maintenance. Both SSDs and HDDs have pluses and minuses. The second generation Intel SSDs resolve most of what you are describing above (e.g., garbage collection, Mac compatibility, etc). If you worry about hard drives, having an SSD vs. HDD should not make any difference.

Didn't mean to sound 'pessimistic'.
I am not otherwise I would not have purchased two SSDs myself.

HDDs fail, but the percentage of SSDs failing due to driver and other issues seems lots higher.
And yet for the price you are paying you'd expect the product to be a lot better - which it isn't, stability wise.

Even your cited second gen Intel drive managed to fry a few Windows 7 users with the latest Intel driver update - which was quickly pulled.

In a nutshell I still believe that for the average consumer who just wants an easy life with a super fast drive SSDs are not ready yet.
Give it another 2 years.
 
I was going to post this. 160GB for me is wayyyy too small. I would love to have an SSD but I rather have a 500gb 7200 RPM drive because of the simple fact that in today's software technology (photography/video) 7200RPMS is sufficient.

For a standalone PC, they do have even faster HD's (i.e. Raptor Drives) that are like 10,000RPM's

The point I'm making is, right now 160GB seems to be capped at what people can afford. Going 500GB SSD drive would be like an arm and a leg, and possibly an unborn child. There isn't really any current software technology out there that you can say will require an SSD. Of course SSD will benefit any software today but not necessary. Who cares if you can open Safari 2 seconds faster.

For me, I have several terabyte external drives (Drobo and the like) and even if I had an SSD, I would only be able to launch the application and work through the application a bit faster but it still needs to write files back and forth to my external drives.

It's like sprinting a few yards and then walk, sprint, walk. versus constantly pacing.

Now...if there were 500GB SSD or even a terabyte, now we're talking because then all my 10meg photographs I can actually keep on my MBP and everything will be sprinting!

Agreed. The SSD is worth it in the MacBook Pro, because thankfully, you can do the Optibay mod and put in a 500GB drive in it, and then you won't have capacity issues.

If there's a situation in which you cannot put additional storage in your system because the SSD is too small, it's not worth it. Performance wise, the SSD is great, and it's a vast improvement over a regular 7200rpm laptop drive.
 
I was looking to get an SSD last week and did some research and from all i read...its still largely an enthusiast's product. Capacities are small for the most part (you will still need an ext HDD), longevity is very much questionable, it really is high maintenance...you have to do stuff a certain way and OS/Hardware support is still iffy (TRIM anyone?). Add that to the premium and the question quickly becomes...why?

7200 RPM drives are still the way to go in terms of performance/price/practicality IMHO.

However SSD tech continues to mature everyday so maybe...hopefully by mid - late 2010 then things would be more reasonable
 
I was looking to get an SSD last week and did some research and from all i read...its still largely an enthusiast's product. Capacities are small for the most part (you will still need an ext HDD), longevity is very much questionable, it really is high maintenance...you have to do stuff a certain way and OS/Hardware support is still iffy (TRIM anyone?). Add that to the premium and the question quickly becomes...why?

7200 RPM drives are still the way to go in terms or performance/price/practicality IMHO.

However SSD tech continues to mature everyday so maybe...hopefully by mid - late 2010 then things would be more reasonable

Believe me, SSD's is the next best thing. It's in iPhone, iPod touch and several other devices out there. Unfortunately, the cost of SSD's are high that the demand for them is low. Everyone wants one but like current mechanical HD's 50 gigs used to be in the thousands.

SSD's will be everywhere by mid 2010, if not, replacing all mechanical drives.
 
Believe me, SSD's is the next best thing. It's in iPhone, iPod touch and several other devices out there. Unfortunately, the cost of SSD's are high that the demand for them is low. Everyone wants one but like current mechanical HD's 50 gigs used to be in the thousands.

SSD's will be everywhere by mid 2010, if not, replacing all mechanical drives.

I know what you are referring to, but there IS a difference between an SSD drive and Flash drive. Flash is more like data storage on a RAM chip, while SSD is more like a complex chip array system in a hard drive size. No moving parts, but it's different from the Flash memory system that the iPod touch/iPhone uses.
 
I know what you are referring to, but there IS a difference between an SSD drive and Flash drive. Flash is more like data storage on a RAM chip, while SSD is more like a complex chip array system in a hard drive size. No moving parts, but it's different from the Flash memory system that the iPod touch/iPhone uses.

If iPhone used SSD they would be thick and bulky but we would have a 256GB iPhone already.
 
I was looking to get an SSD last week and did some research and from all i read...its still largely an enthusiast's product. Capacities are small for the most part (you will still need an ext HDD), longevity is very much questionable, it really is high maintenance...you have to do stuff a certain way and OS/Hardware support is still iffy (TRIM anyone?). Add that to the premium and the question quickly becomes...why?

7200 RPM drives are still the way to go in terms of performance/price/practicality IMHO.

However SSD tech continues to mature everyday so maybe...hopefully by mid - late 2010 then things would be more reasonable
You can do all the research and reading about it, but in the end if you decide not to get one you really don't know how utterly different they are in practice to a HDD. How could you? It is a quantum leap, not an incremental performance boost like when one moves from a 5400rpm to a 7200rpm HDD. Capacity too small? That's also incremental, relative. After all only a few years ago, 120GB was huge on a notebook! What has changed? Maybe media files and how many. You may want 500GB, but do you NEED it? Not unless you have scores of big media files everywhere you go. And why 500GB? Why not 1TB, or 5TB, 100TB? I know plenty of people who need 5TB and more! Why? They store DVD's. It is just an amount that creates its own new uses. My last notebook lasted 5 years, and started with a 60GB HDD, and ended with a 120GB. Did I really need 120GB? Not really. It was only half full. Plenty of room for three operating systems plus 10 years of data files. Most of my files are word and web documents. I have 100's of high quality photos too. But how many is a lot? How long is a piece of string? How far is a star? It isn't a jukebox. My new notebook came with a 160GB 7200rpm HDD. Did I really need the extra space? It was now half full plus another 40GB spare space free for filling, that's all. The extra space didn't make any difference. It did no harm; no good. What did I notice? The speed of the faster-spinning HDD and improved acoustics of a more modern drive. How can one notice the addition of space one doesn't yet need? I swapped for a 120GB SSD. 120Gb was just as much enough as it had been on the old machine. Still plenty; plenty to spare. The spare one doesn't notice. To me the more storage you have the more you can (and probably will) suddenly lose; and the more you have to back up on yet another drive. What is nice is a silent, none-vibrating, cool-running, SSD, impact-resistant. Would it be nice to be 250GB? Sure. Essential? No. (and of course, most SSD's come in 250GB as well as 120GB) Maintenance? Even if these things went at half speed, they would still blow any HDD out of the water. Has there been any difference in the performance of my SSD in 5 months continuous use? None that is noticeable. SSD's are no more essential than a new gpu or cpu or lots of storage space, or lots of ram. A 10-year old computer still does lots of things just as well as the latest. I have one. But is an SSD ready for ordinary use? Sure it is. I can't recall the same amazing leap since going from floppies to HDD's. :)
 
If you've never actually used an SSD, then quite frankly, you have no idea what you're talking about in terms of the performance upgrade. I've owned computers for 20 years and the SSD upgrade has made the most noticeable difference to my every day computing tasks out of any upgrade i've ever done.

Yes, they are expensive and small in capacity, but my G2 intel 160GB drive is plenty for me. I don't have an external drive at all.

And yes, there's a lot of crap on the market for SSDs (true for everything) and of course it is up to the buyer to his or her research, but let's not pretend that SSDs are some misunderstood and nascent technology where the manufacturers have no idea what they are doing. Go with an intel, and yes, you can expect it to behave as stably as a HDD.

And to the person who said you have to worry about "driver issues" with SSDs, just stop posting in this thread because you really have no clue what you're talking about.
 
I've used an SSD. I used to own a MBA...i know the performance gain but i also know the technology isn't quite there yet/hasn't reached tipping point yet IMHO


I appreciate that 128GB may be enough for you and a significant number of people but it simply doesn't come close to being enough for me. Its not even about having un-necessary large capacity...i simply have data larger than 128/160GB. 256 would be a minimal requirement and even then things would be tighter than usual which is why i'm waiting for 320GB drives to show up
 
So I see a lot about the Intel SSD, but any feedback on Crucials? I'm looking to pick up the 256gb one around Christmas and drop it into my uMBP 17"

I'm just a speed hog..
 
So I see a lot about the Intel SSD, but any feedback on Crucials? I'm looking to pick up the 256gb one around Christmas and drop it into my uMBP 17"

I'm just a speed hog..

Crucial is actually a good drive...its not as fast as Intel though
 
I appreciate that 128GB may be enough for you and a significant number of people but it simply doesn't come close to being enough for me. Its not even about having un-necessary large capacity...i simply have data larger than 128/160GB. 256 would be a minimal requirement and even then things would be tighter than usual which is why i'm waiting for 320GB drives to show up
I entirely agree that if you absolutely need 320GB+, then best wait a bit. But the original question was an "average user" with 160GB. I would think they would be deliriously happy with a 160GB Intel SSD after using a 160GB HDD - just as I was moving from a 120/160GB HDD to a 120GB SSD. The abiding issue, and it is for most average users the only sticking point, is cost per GB. Performance will gradually increase even further, but the biggest increase will be in affordability. It is the unaffordability for the average user of bigger SSD's (like 250GB) that leads many of us to remain with "small" SSD's, or else stick with medium size (compared to desktop 3.5" HDD's) HDD's.
 
Basically anytime your mac needs to use the hard drive to find a file, page in/ outs, application it does so, so much faster. Its like night and day! When I go on a brand new Windows pc with a standard HDD its so unbelievably slow.

There is no harm in maxing out the ram too, can be picked up cheap from many online stores. In relation to the RAM & SSD working together it must have some speed increase.

brand new windows SSD is slower than my 2.66 MBP with 320GB HDD! i couldnt belive what i saw, but it's true. 4 sec faster boot time for my MBP
 
And to the person who said you have to worry about "driver issues" with SSDs, just stop posting in this thread because you really have no clue what you're talking about.
The Internet is full of posts by people who had issues with Intel's latest SSD drivers and Windows 7.
One thread e.g. from Intel's own forums:
http://communities.intel.com/thread/7693?start=0&tstart=0

I really recommend people read up in SSD forums about what issues other people encounter as they might have similar setups than you.
Here're two for OCZ drives:
http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=186
http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=237
There are many messages of people having issues with drivers.

When was the last time you upgraded your OS and your HDD driver caused issues and needed updating? (And that update later got pulled by the manufacturer...)
How can you say SSDs 'behave as stably as a HDD'? Not even Intel's SSDs do.

Maybe your experience was flawless, good for you then.
I have 2 SSDs and one of which died due to driver issues. My experience is not flawless. YMMV of course.
 
just stick with HDD for now.. im tempted too to also get SSD but ima be patient and wait until SSD almost becomes standard
 
The Internet is full of posts by people who had issues with Intel's latest SSD drivers and Windows 7.
One thread e.g. from Intel's own forums:
http://communities.intel.com/thread/7693?start=0&tstart=0

I really recommend people read up in SSD forums about what issues other people encounter as they might have similar setups than you.
Here're two for OCZ drives:
http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=186
http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=237
There are many messages of people having issues with drivers.

When was the last time you upgraded your OS and your HDD driver caused issues and needed updating? (And that update later got pulled by the manufacturer...)
How can you say SSDs 'behave as stably as a HDD'? Not even Intel's SSDs do.

Maybe your experience was flawless, good for you then.
I have 2 SSDs and one of which died due to driver issues. My experience is not flawless. YMMV of course.


Please learn to read, that is FIRMWARE upgrades firmware != driver. You never NEEDED to update the firmware, just that to get TRIM you needed it. It is like with anything, if you update the first day something is released, you take a chance. Or in Apples case, if you ever update the software/firmware you will have a non functioning product forever :)
 
Please learn to read, that is FIRMWARE upgrades firmware != driver.
Firmware is just a hardware 'driver' (a driver that resides and runs on the hardware). Let's not split hairs with definitions.

If your OS supports TRIM then you want this if you have an SSD.
It would be silly not to.

And when and how to upgrade SSD 'drivers' depends on the current version you use and how many known issues this one has.
For example OCZ Vertex 1.3 'drivers' have a known issue with garbage collection which can render the drive dead at any moment. If you are using 1.3 it is advisable to upgrade to 1.4 as soon as possible. Even if 1.4 has not proven itself yet.


if you update the first day something is released, you take a chance.
That's exactly my point with SSDs on the whole.
If you jump on a new storage device built on new controller chips with new hardware features (like e.g. garbage collection) then you take a chance.

Give it some more time and SSDs will be ready for the mainstream. 2 years I'd say.
Currently you take a chance. (Which might also be fine if you know that you're doing.)
 
That's exactly my point with SSDs on the whole.
If you jump on a new storage device built on new controller chips with new hardware features (like e.g. garbage collection) then you take a chance.

Give it some more time and SSDs will be ready for the mainstream. 2 years I'd say.
Currently you take a chance. (Which might also be fine if you know that you're doing.)

Theres a difference in updating the first hour a software/firmware update is released. And buying an SSD after they been around for a few years ;) By now I would say the SSD technology is pretty safe, I been looking to buy an SSD for about a year now, and I came into the game quite late.
 
Thanks for the link. Worth a read - even though it's a bit long.

A quote from page 2:
"[...]SSDs seem strangely plagued with launch bugs. From the first lifespan issues, through the JMicron controller scandal, OCZ's Core launch foibles, and Intel's three rounds of SSD firmware brickings, SSD launches simply aren't stable in the same way HDD launches are. This is probably due to the novelty and complexity of the operations going on in firmware to boost performance, and will abate over time."

My point exactly.

Even though flash storage has been around for ages (I had my first PCMCIA flash card back in 1995) it is only recently that SSDs really push performance (that PCMCIA card was dead slow).
And it seems the tricks used to push performance (from smart controllers, internal RAID setups to on-the-fly garbage collection on idle) are causing the issues.

I am certain that SSDs have a bright future, yet currently users have to be aware of these issues.
SSDs are not as stable as HDDs - yet.

They still provide a lot of speed so potential hassles are worth it for many.
But I doubt the average consumer would fall into that category.
 
They still provide a lot of speed so potential hassles are worth it for many.
But I doubt the average consumer would fall into that category.

Here's how the average consumer perceives an SSD:

A 160GB SSD, is close to $500.
A 500GB laptop drive costs $100.

500GB is worth my money and I'm not spending $500 for 160GB.

The average consumer could really care less how fast an SSD is. The average consumer looks at the price vs. capacity, and that's about it. In their minds, the HD wins.
 
I know what you are referring to, but there IS a difference between an SSD drive and Flash drive. Flash is more like data storage on a RAM chip, while SSD is more like a complex chip array system in a hard drive size. No moving parts, but it's different from the Flash memory system that the iPod touch/iPhone uses.

Actually SSD is flash, and flash is SSD. Flash doesn't use RAM, it's EEPROM. Which is the same as SSDs. The main difference here is A. BUS type. ie SSDs are built with PATA, SATA interfaces usually while usb flash is on USB, which is higher latency and slower access. Second the Flash controller is more optimized, (usually more power hungry) on SSDs because the emphasis is on speed, not cheapness. and finally the chips used in SSDs for the most part tend to be of a higher grade/faster than typically used in usb flash drives (because the bus bottleneck). It's the same system basically, with a faster controller and bus, and more expensive chips.
 
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