Norway To Pressure Apple To Change iTunes EULA?

[obeygiant]

This thread wins for the most boring.

 

[Doctor Q]

This thread wins for the most boring.

I find it quite interesting, not becaue of legal issues or politics but because of the technical and business questions.

Apple made compromises to get the record labels to play ball without totally alienating most of the music-buying public. They also made technical moves to favor their own iPod business.

Even though nobody is forced to buy their products, they are the 500-pound gorilla in this business and for some of us it's interesting to see who complaints about their business model and licensing for what reasons, and how Apple handles the challenges.

And the outcome could affect all of us who buy iTunes music.

 

[kaneda]

Microsoft

Mycrosoft is behind this...

 

[Lollypop]

Im behind Norway all the way If a company chooses to do business in a country they have to play fair and operate by that coutries laws. Apple chose to do business in Norway, when the decided to open international stores they had to know that this kind fo thing will happen. Apple shouldnt be surprised that they are now expected to do business they way other companies have to do business.

All apple needs to do is amend the EULA, make the user agree to apple changing the DRM, I hope that doesnt happen, but thats the most likely workaround in my mind.

 

[pianojoe]

Let's see, if I buy a CD in the store and lose it or break it, then the store I bought it from should replace it?

I don't think so.

Whatever

There's a very fine point involved. When you buy a CD, you get the physical merchandise, and also the right to listen to it — in private. You may not, for example, lend it (professionally, as in a library), or "perform" it to a public audience. You may not resell the CD abroad.

This is, obviously, a license contract.

How can the license be void when the CD becomes unplayable? Shouldn't you be able to replace the media at a reduced price because you'd only want the media since you already paid for the license?

 

[ts1973]

Especially the 3rd point is in my opinion spot on - and one of the reasons I've never purchased any songs through iTMS.

I think I'll stick to CD's for a couple more years

 

[longofest]

This thread wins for the most boring.

Hey... we DO have a poll in the thread

 

[Highland]

Actually it is much more like saying my Sony CD won't work in my Philips CD player, which is of course a ridiculous situation to be in.

Totally ridiculous. There is no technical reason why the files won't play--it's a designed intervention. It's impossible to imagine how anyone could think that this is a good thing for the music industry. It's certainly not good for the people buying the music.

...but I won't accept DRM on music I buy. I'm sticking to CDs. Even there I'm not safe. I keep discovering that what I thought was a CD, simply is a "CD-like" disc with stupid, non-working copy protection. There should be big warning stickers on those.

In some countries these are not considered to be "CDs" and can be returned as they are faulty (they don't comply to the CD red book standard).

Apple made compromises to get the record labels to play ball without totally alienating most of the music-buying public. They also made technical moves to favor their own iPod business.

Even though nobody is forced to buy their products, they are the 500-pound gorilla in this business and for some of us it's interesting to see who complaints about their business model and licensing for what reasons, and how Apple handles the challenges.

Very interesting. Apple has done well to find a good middle ground solution. I'd have to say that I think no DRM is the best way to move forward though.

And for those saying "we're not forced to buy music from iTMS" or "vote with your wallet" etc, fast forward a few years... Imagine record labels ditching CDs (they will) and only distributing via online stores (again, this will happen). Your choice will be to buy music with DRM or not buy music, meaning if you don't like DRM, then you can either not listen to it or you can download it illegally. That's not a good situation to be in. This is something that needs to be sorted out very soon. Globally.

It's also worth noting that iTunes really isn't being singled out... it's just being used as a test case because it is the market leader. Once the battle has been fought and won (or lost), then the other online music stores will have to follow suit.

 

[morespce54]

.... please..... dont you know that you can go to the check for purchases option and re-download music that you have purchased?

Maybe the problem here is stupid people and not Apple.

Well, this stupid person checked it out in iTunes and got the following message…

Jeez, I feel dumb.

exactly what I was about to post...

 

[itguy06]

So, you can burn to CD as many times as 7(?), and copy it to 3(?) computers. Wow, I'm impressed... not! Why should we have to put up with this on music we *bought and paid for*? It's not about that 7 burns or 3 computers should be more than enough to not run into the limitations, it's about why are people willing to accept *at all* these kind of stupid restrictions on what we buy.

For the last time:

YOU CAN ONLY BURN THE SAME EXACT PLAYLIST 7 TIMES. Delete the playlist and create another with the same order and the same songs and you get 7 more burns. Copy that burn in, say Toast, as many times as you want.

That "issue" is a non issue.....

 

[F/reW/re]

Norwegian newssites reports:

The next music store to hear from the Consumer Ombudsman is MSN Music with their "Play for Sure" technology. And other online music services after that..

Norway i love you!

btw:
Oslo (the capital of Norway) is the city in the whole world with the highest % iPods per inhabitant.

 

[Timepass]

Very interesting. Apple has done well to find a good middle ground solution. I'd have to say that I think no DRM is the best way to move forward though.

And for those saying "we're not forced to buy music from iTMS" or "vote with your wallet" etc, fast forward a few years... Imagine record labels ditching CDs (they will) and only distributing via online stores (again, this will happen). Your choice will be to buy music with DRM or not buy music, meaning if you don't like DRM, then you can either not listen to it or you can download it illegally. That's not a good situation to be in. This is something that needs to be sorted out very soon. Globally.

It's also worth noting that iTunes really isn't being singled out... it's just being used as a test case because it is the market leader. Once the battle has been fought and won (or lost), then the other online music stores will have to follow suit.

Some how I dont buy it that Apple had to make the agreement with the Music industry that stuff from the iTMS only will work on the iPod. It completely BS to say that apple had to agree to that. It that way only so they can sell more iPods and it hurts the music industry. They want to sell more music and by limiting to iPod only they cut into a lot of there sells since people with mp3 players that are not an ipod can not play the music from the iTMS so why buy from them if you cannt play it.

 

[081440]

There's a very fine point involved. When you buy a CD, you get the physical merchandise, and also the right to listen to it — in private. You may not, for example, lend it (professionally, as in a library), or "perform" it to a public audience. You may not resell the CD abroad.

This is, obviously, a license contract.

How can the license be void when the CD becomes unplayable? Shouldn't you be able to replace the media at a reduced price because you'd only want the media since you already paid for the license?

OMG!!

How about we actually encourage some self responsibility here!!!

You think a business wants to have to sell special CDs at a reduced cost for the idiots that loose or break one and don't want to have to buy a new one?!

Added to that the thoughts that Apple should not be allowed to change the contract even after you agree to allowing them to change it are bogus!!

Look if you don't like the rules or can't stand the thought of Apple having this control then don't buy the songs!
All businesses (except for utilities, i.e. power, water, and gas) should have the right to charge what ever they please for the goods and ask their costumers to sign any type of contract they want before a consumer can buy something. If you object to this then go somewhere else, that's the way to convince a company to change, just boycott them. But don't go around suing and complaining and wanting the government to do something because you want to burn those extra 3 CDs. TAKE SOME RESPONSIBILITY

 

[prewwii]

Finger pointing time.....

I don't know what they mean by the first line exactly, but second line is standard disclaimer in all software. I don't think it is reasonable, but if there was major damage and if you can show that software company had known about it and could have fixed it with reasonable effort, you might still be able to sue them....... snip

I am sure there are some who have managed software or hardware projects that encountered a problem and every group involved pointed to another group saying its their problem, followed by wonderful logic supporting their conclusion. Can you imagine taking a unstable operating system like Windows submitting it to the wrath of browsing the web and then without the aid of source code trying to determine who caused the problem so a court can understand the conclusion? That should bring back the Keystone Cops kind of antics.

Jim

 

[prewwii]

.....snip..... What has Norway done for us lately? EVER?

Sven, Tina and Ole jokes

 

[F/reW/re]

Sven, Tina and Ole jokes

The browser Opera.
The hack to remove the iTMS drm.
The hack to ripp DVD's..

USA keeps making drm's, norwegians keep cracking them.. I guess norwegians are just alot smarter than Americans..

During the New Orleans tragedy Norway provided USA with tents, medic personell and blankets for 5 million NOK.

Norway also provides USA with oil.. but I guess USA could manage without oil..? haha

 

[F/reW/re]

How on earth can someone justify this?

Apple give themself the right to change the rights of the music you have already bought. That means, eks; Apple can say, every song that has ever been bought on iTMS can only be used on 1 computer, can not be transfered to anything and can not be burned to a CD. How on earh can they give themself the rights to do whatever they want to a product you have already bought? Thats just sick!

 

[NickFalk]

We have brought Norway iTunes. What has Norway done for us lately? EVER?

I dunno. The paper-clip perhaps.

Oh and a little something called Object Oriented Programming.

 

[Kelmon]

As far as I am concerned I see 2 issues that I want to have addressed:

1. Listen from anywhere: I want to be able to listen to music that I've bought from the iTunes music store using any device that I want, i.e. license FairPlay to non-Apple devices. I really like the iPod and I hope I always will, but should Apple either stop innovating or the competition catches up then I want to be able to buy the best device to listen to my music on. Additionally, I'd also like to be able to pipe music around my house without having to base such a system on Airport Express stations.
2. Buy from anywhere: I want to be able to buy music from any music store (assuming a Mac-friendly interface) and listen to it on my iPod, i.e. license Windows DRM on the iPod. If Music Store A has a sale then I want to be able to buy from them rather than being locked-in to the iTMS.

This case hopefully will be a step in the right direction as the current situation is not good for the market.

 

[yoak]

Yeah, and how's Napster doing these days? They keep trying different stuff. Most of it bait and switch tactics like their current FREE concept. Their ploys just get you hyped and excited until you find out they're screwing you. THAT's the way to win customers!

We have brought Norway iTunes. What has Norway done for us lately? EVER?

Who are we?

 

[Doctor Q]

I dunno. The paper-clip perhaps.

Oh and a little something called Object Oriented Programming.

I've been to Norway and I've written a program in Simula 67. Does that make me fully qualified to make proclamations about Norwegian consumer and legal issues?

If so, I hereby rule that Norway should continue making Apple defend their licensing rules, to keep them on their toes, but then agree to accept the status quo so Apple can sell lots of iPods, which gives them more money they can use for R&D, which helps me when I buy my next Apple product.

It's all about ME, isn't it?

 

[Dr_Maybe]

I'm not convinced that IP rights are valid.

But when I buy music, I prefer CDs. DRM free, and I can rip those in whatever format I want.

 

[Highland]

Some how I dont buy it that Apple had to make the agreement with the Music industry that stuff from the iTMS only will work on the iPod. It completely BS to say that apple had to agree to that. It that way only so they can sell more iPods and it hurts the music industry. They want to sell more music and by limiting to iPod only they cut into a lot of there sells since people with mp3 players that are not an ipod can not play the music from the iTMS so why buy from them if you cannt play it.

Sorry, I wasn't saying that Apple had to agree to that.

Labels : "We want DRM!!! We want DRM!!!"
Apple : "Ok, we have our very own DRM here. It's great"
Labels : "That sounds great."
Apple : *and now we're not going to license it MMMWWWAAHAHAHAH*

You're right though, not being able to play all music on all players is bad for the music industry as a whole.