Not a good time to buy a Mac Pro?

[gundam789]

Sorry for starting a new thread on this but looking for some advice.
I was looking to buy a new Mac Pro 2009 but after reading few threads on this overheating problems all 2009 Mac's are having i'm not sure anymore on what to do.
I need this pc mostly for video editing , browsing , watching movies and playing world of warcraft.

 

[synth3tik]

If your worried about heat issues with the new Mac Pros, why not go for a previous gen? All Mac Pros (Even my 06) are perfectly viable computers.

 

[spinnerlys]

Common sense is that Apple will also release new Mac Pros in January or February, as that is Apple's normal update cycle for those beasts.

You can also have a look here: https://buyersguide.macrumors.com//

On those particular questions about overheating problems I can't give you an answer, but as you already pointed out, there are several threads regarding those.

Video editing is a broad field, so you might run into overheating problems if your MP is faulty and you edit advanced footage and with multiple effects.

Also consider, that this forum is mostly visited by people wit problems, the one who don't have any, which are in the vast majority, most probably don't show up here.

 

[kxfrog]

The overheating problem is not as bad as people say, it can be controlled and doesn't effect everything you do, You can control it with smcfancontrol or you can just do nothing. It isn't that bad, as long as it doesn't get over 67 celcius then you're fine. If you need a new MP then buy one now, if you don't hold out to buy a new one in feb or whenever they release the new ones.

 

[Max(IT)]

Sorry for starting a new thread on this but looking for some advice.
I was looking to buy a new Mac Pro 2009 but after reading few threads on this overheating problems all 2009 Mac's are having i'm not sure anymore on what to do.
I need this pc mostly for video editing , browsing , watching movies and playing world of warcraft.

And you're going to buy an expensive, huge and noisy (compared to an iMac) Mac Pro for this kind of use ?!?

 

[nanofrog]

And you're going to buy an expensive, huge and noisy (compared to an iMac) Mac Pro for this kind of use ?!?

Video editing does require power, but there's no indication as to what extent or how much time will be spent at it. The rest of it, not so much, and a Mini would suffice.

Seriously though, the new 2010 systems will have the same issues as the current models, as they'll ship with the same OS, use the same chipsets, and other parts/similar if not identical layout internally (physical space constraints). Simply put, most of the internals will be recycled, even if the logic board gets a couple of changes. So things like the DIMM count isn't likely to change, as it will be stuck using the daughterboard method (same CPU socket). Really all they'd have to do, is update the firmware, and drop in the new parts.

So the suggestion of an older system makes a lot of sense IMO. The '08 is the best value out there, as it's EFI64 (allows for future graphics cards and OS updates once it goes pure K64), doesn't have the heat issues, throttling of the ICH10R in Nehalem architecture, too few DIMM slots, or need an adapter if a 3rd party hardware RAID card is desired to be used with the HDD bays.

 

[Umbongo]

Common sense is that Apple will also release new Mac Pros in January or February, as that is Apple's normal update cycle for those beasts.

Apple's updates are based on Intel's product launches more than anything. August, April, January, March have been the dates for Mac Pros so far. The new processors won't be out until March. So it could be from February to June based on previous release dates compared to Intel launches.

 

[nanofrog]

Apple's updates are based on Intel's product launches more than anything. August, April, January, March have been the dates for Mac Pros so far. The new processors won't be out until March. So it could be from February to June based on previous release dates compared to Intel launches.

Apple's made a deal to get parts early again though, and is the reasoning for the earlier estimates for the 2010 models.

 

[Umbongo]

Apple's made a deal to get parts early again though, and is the reasoning for the earlier estimates for the 2010 models.

Wasn't this only rumor though? An easy rumor to make and not suffer any backlash from. If it's right then you get credibility, if it wrong its forgotten or you can push it off on a deal not going through, or Intel not being able to deliver.

Not saying it isn't the case, but people have always said the next Mac Pro was around the corner. They were expected in November 07 when the 5400 series came and people thought they'd come right after Core i7, until late Feb when it was clear no new processors until the end of march. I think better to be cautious than have the "next Tuesday" mentality all over the forum and "why aren't apple releasing them" dealing many threads.

Merry Christmas to you and the other regulars offering good advice on here, your storage knowledge is a great resource for the community

 

[nanofrog]

Wasn't this only rumor though? An easy rumor to make and not suffer any backlash from. If it's right then you get credibility, if it wrong its forgotten or you can push it off on a deal not going through, or Intel not being able to deliver.

Not saying it isn't the case, but people have always said the next Mac Pro was around the corner. They were expected in November 07 when the 5400 series came and people thought they'd come right after Core i7, until late Feb when it was clear no new processors until the end of march. I think better to be cautious than have the "next Tuesday" mentality all over the forum and "why aren't apple releasing them" dealing many threads.

Merry Christmas to you and the other regulars offering good advice on here, your storage knowledge is a great resource for the community

It seemed to be credible though, as it's happened before, and the announcement on MR's front page didn't seem that iffy to me (I don't recall the source being highly questionable).

The biggest thing to me though, is it's happened before, and such an event repeating makes sense for both Apple and Intel IMO (Intel gets a faster cash infusion, and Apple gets a jump on the competition, not to mention presumably better than the standard 1k quantity pricing).

Now I'm not thinking next Tuesday, but the announcement is quite possibly going to be made in Jan IMO. With shipping to likely to begin in late February, maybe March, assuming the boat doesn't sink,...

This seems reasonable to me, as this is a Tick, not a Tock. The heavy design work has been done in the last revision, and this is just a shrink + 2 cores. The chipsets are the same as the existing models, so that's already available, as are the rest of the necessary parts to make boards. So I don't expect a gapping hole in parts availabililty, though I would expect a slow ramp-up of 32nm parts released (i.e. maybe only specific P/N's to start with).

 

[smacman]

The overheating problem is not as bad as people say, it can be controlled and doesn't effect everything you do, You can control it with smcfancontrol or you can just do nothing. It isn't that bad, as long as it doesn't get over 67 celcius then you're fine. If you need a new MP then buy one now, if you don't hold out to buy a new one in feb or whenever they release the new ones.

It amazes me what Apple customers will accept.

Most people look for a Mac Pro because they are looking for a well engineered, robust high performance workstation. The 09 models are flawed. Out of the box, simply playing audio in iTunes or copying files to a firewire drive will cause the CPU to exceed Intels thermal specifications. It will also cause 100% power draw, and a loss of 25% performance across the system. Now try using an app that pushes your CPU at the same time, and within minutes you'll probably see a kernel panic. As a previous poster pointed out, you can somewhat control this by installing smcFanControl, but even with that solution, temps are still way too high for this class of machine.

My advice is to avoid the Mac Pro altogether unless you can pick up an 08 model refurbished.

 

[nanofrog]

My advice is to avoid the Mac Pro altogether unless you can pick up an 08 model refurbished.

The best machine Apple's ever built IMO.

EFI 64 (allows future graphics cards and OS updates once OS X goes K64 only), doesn't have the specific issues the '09's do, and is a better price/performance = better value.

 

[smacman]

The best machine Apple's ever built IMO.

EFI 64 (allows future graphics cards and OS updates once OS X goes K64 only), doesn't have the specific issues the '09's do, and is a better price/performance = better value.

Yup.. I'm jealous..

 

[parakiet]

i almost bought an 08 'basic' mac pro back in those days
because they were at the end of their cycle i've waited
and still am waiting, lets see what 2010 brings

 

[nanofrog]

i almost bought an 08 'basic' mac pro back in those days
because they were at the end of their cycle i've waited
and still am waiting, lets see what 2010 brings

Unless you're using software that can actually use that additional pair of cores, I really don't think the 2010 models will have anything else that's going to be a game changer. The architecture is identical otherwise.

 

[gundam789]

I honestly don't understand how can something like this hapen to a company like Apple.
We are not talking about Emachines , Gateway etc..... we taking about APPLE
I'm wondering if they even took the time to stress test this machines before putting them on the market.
It's to bad cause i really wanted to buy a MacPro but not going to spend 4000$ ( canadian $) on a machine with problems =/
I honestly think there is not much to be done to get Apple to fix this 2009 models since the 2010 models will be coming out in few months.
Best thing is to get this info out in the public and hopefully people will hold off from buying Mac's untill htis is fixed , I'm sure once sales at Apple drop they will do something about it.
This is really sad to me.

 

[parakiet]

Unless you're using software that can actually use that additional pair of cores, I really don't think the 2010 models will have anything else that's going to be a game changer. The architecture is identical otherwise.

it just didn't feel right to give that much money to an 'outdated' 2008 machine
either didn't i like the idea of spending more than 1500 euros on a second hand rig

 

[nanofrog]

it just didn't feel right to give that much money to an 'outdated' 2008 machine
either didn't i like the idea of spending more than 1500 euros on a second hand rig

If you can find a good deal, and make sure it's fully functional prior to payment, it's still worth it IMO.

And here in the US, there's still 3.2GHz '08 Octads in the Refurb store that have been selling for the same price as the base '09 Octad (2.26GHz), yet it beats the '09 base accross the board.

 

[cjmillsnun]

It amazes me what Apple customers will accept.

Most people look for a Mac Pro because they are looking for a well engineered, robust high performance workstation. The 09 models are flawed. Out of the box, simply playing audio in iTunes or copying files to a firewire drive will cause the CPU to exceed Intels thermal specifications. It will also cause 100% power draw, and a loss of 25% performance across the system. Now try using an app that pushes your CPU at the same time, and within minutes you'll probably see a kernel panic. As a previous poster pointed out, you can somewhat control this by installing smcFanControl, but even with that solution, temps are still way too high for this class of machine.

My advice is to avoid the Mac Pro altogether unless you can pick up an 08 model refurbished.

I honestly don't understand how can something like this hapen to a company like Apple.
We are not talking about Emachines , Gateway etc..... we taking about APPLE
I'm wondering if they even took the time to stress test this machines before putting them on the market.
It's to bad cause i really wanted to buy a MacPro but not going to spend 4000$ ( canadian $) on a machine with problems =/
I honestly think there is not much to be done to get Apple to fix this 2009 models since the 2010 models will be coming out in few months.
Best thing is to get this info out in the public and hopefully people will hold off from buying Mac's untill htis is fixed , I'm sure once sales at Apple drop they will do something about it.
This is really sad to me.

A bit of an overreaction.

It's obvious that this is a software problem. Mac OS X hasn't been sufficiently engineered to take full advantage of the Nehalem CPUs. Thankfully the Gulftowns are very similar in engineering terms. I suspect that 10.6.3 will address the problems directly and you will see the 2009 and 2010 systems fixed.

And the reason this wasn't dealt with before.

1) The engineers were working on Snow Leopard (which we know was rushed somewhat), so 10.5.8 didn't get these upgrades.

2) Because 10.6 was rushed, there followed 10.6.1 and 10.6.2 in short order, not enough in timescale to get the enhancements tacked on.

 

[parakiet]

If you can find a good deal, and make sure it's fully functional prior to payment, it's still worth it IMO.

And here in the US, there's still 3.2GHz '08 Octads in the Refurb store that have been selling for the same price as the base '09 Octad (2.26GHz), yet it beats the '09 base accross the board.

yup

if i lived in the usa or hong kong i probably had allrdy bought an refurb 8core, topped it off with lots of ram and rammed a ssd in there

i can't even ship a refurb from the UK, france or germany to here, although they are in a 95 miles radius


so i'm just checking the rumors daily.. one day.. one day my beast will arive

 

[nanofrog]

i can't even ship a refurb from the UK, france or germany to here, although they are in a 95 miles radius

Would it have been possible to take a drive for 95 miles to get one though?
(I've no idea as to the import restrictions, and presume you'd only need to pay the taxes upon re-entry during declaration).