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Not again... (Mac vs PC re:$$$)

5300cs

5300cs

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Nov 24, 2002
1,862
0
japan
Ok, I hate these types of discussions as much as everyone else, but I wanted to get this out.

So I'm part of this computer club over here, and we had a tour today of 2 computer stores. I and one other guy are the only Mac users (there's another pseudo-Mac user, but he was absent today) everyone else is XP or 98 :rolleyes:

Anyway, we get to the Mac section and the president of the club says "Ok, you can give us a brief talk about Macs for us then." Ok, cool, I thought. I spoke for about 15 seconds telling people that just because it says 1.8Ghz as opposed to a Pentium 4Ghz, it doesn't mean that one is much faster than another (just go with me here.) Before I finished my sentence, the pres goes "Woah! ¥250,000 (standard price) for this sucker! That's a lot! For that price you get all this." I then told him that the monitor wasn't included, so he pointed to one of the aluminum studio displays and says "Jeez! It doesn't come with a bloody monitor! Another ¥150,000 for that! ¥400,000 for your whole setup. Well, I dunno what it does, but I guess it looks nice!" Then he laughed and led the group out of the Mac section to go look at pc notebooks.

I really could have cheerfully killed him at that moment. Don't you just really hate pc-bigots? The worst part is that he's one of those 'build-your-own-pc' types, so you can't argue with them about price :rolleyes:

Sorry, had to get that off my chest. It was pissing me off all day ... :(
 
That's when you sit down, pull out your powerbook, and play an arousing game of Halo.

lol, yeah - I've been fortunate enough not to run into to many PC bigots. I have some friends that like to kid me about it, but nothing major since they do ask me to fix their Windows computers every now and then (esp. during virus season - which ironically is usually during finals).

Next time just tell them more money = better computer just like more money = better car. A $300 PC won't be as good as a $3000 Mac the same way a $3000 car isn't as good as a $30,000 car.

Also, those Apple LCDs are the only LCDs I know of Graphic Designers using. Though most still stick to the CRTs.
 
Yeah, I've told them so many times how OS X is idiotically stable & secure compared to xp, and most of the club members listen (though they never buy anything Mac, which doesn't bother me.)

When I did my Mac presentation I put in a few Apple commercials. One of them was the iMac commercial where they show the back of a pc and the narrator says "the pc .. profusely corded ... physically conspicuous... particularly costly ..." etc and he was the only one to jump up and dispute what all the cables really did: "Hey!! That's not fair! There were 2 power cables!!" I was like chill, it's a commercial, not a documentary :rolleyes:
(Like the pc world portrays the Mac world correctly...)

I know Apple is trying to make $$$, but maybe it's not such a good idea to put the G5s out as the first thing people see. People see those price tags and go running for the hills. At least, that's what I noticed over here. You hit the Mac section and there's G5s all over the place, with the cheaper iBooks & eMacs tucked away almost out of sight. Just my 2 cents...
 
5300cs said:
I really could have cheerfully killed him at that moment. Don't you just really hate pc-bigots?
Click to expand...

Why didn't you? Oh wait......those silly laws. Too bad. ;) It almost sounds like he put you on the spot for 15 seconds just to humiliate you. A hobby of his, maybe? It could be something he does because he has a small penis and a shrew for a wife. Heck, maybe he should just kill himself! That'll save you the trouble!! [/wtf?]

One time someone asked me if that was a Mac I had on my lap, and I said "Yes", and he replies, "Oh.......cute." Condescending little mofo. :mad:
 
5300cs said:
Ok, I hate these types of discussions as much as everyone else, but I wanted to get this out.

So I'm part of this computer club over here, and we had a tour today of 2 computer stores. I and one other guy are the only Mac users (there's another pseudo-Mac user, but he was absent today) everyone else is XP or 98 :rolleyes:

Anyway, we get to the Mac section and the president of the club says "Ok, you can give us a brief talk about Macs for us then." Ok, cool, I thought. I spoke for about 15 seconds telling people that just because it says 1.8Ghz as opposed to a Pentium 4Ghz, it doesn't mean that one is much faster than another (just go with me here.) Before I finished my sentence, the pres goes "Woah! ¥250,000 (standard price) for this sucker! That's a lot! For that price you get all this." I then told him that the monitor wasn't included, so he pointed to one of the aluminum studio displays and says "Jeez! It doesn't come with a bloody monitor! Another ¥150,000 for that! ¥400,000 for your whole setup. Well, I dunno what it does, but I guess it looks nice!" Then he laughed and led the group out of the Mac section to go look at pc notebooks.

I really could have cheerfully killed him at that moment. Don't you just really hate pc-bigots? The worst part is that he's one of those 'build-your-own-pc' types, so you can't argue with them about price :rolleyes:

Sorry, had to get that off my chest. It was pissing me off all day ... :(
Click to expand...

if one is a pc bigot due to price, it still makes some sense

but building your own pc, these days, is a sure way to spend more money than just buying a major brand pc who gets the same parts and software for just a fraction of what any individual can get stuff for...for instance, windows os costs the major manufacturers just 40 dollars a copy

so if he's willing to spend more, in some cases much more, by building a pc and buying parts/software a la carte for more money, he should just spend the extra money on a mac

the only way for a pc person to see the value of a mac is to own one and use it daily...it's those people who never return to the world of windows but it takes that initial investment to get that mac and it's hard to have people pay out 800 dollars or more to get a computer with an unfamiliar operating system and a one button mouse

put yourself in the shoes of a pc person who is used to the two button mouse, windows, and microsoft office and the exact placement of every icon on those programs

that's why i think it's crucial for schools to have macs so the kids can get used to the mac experience early on
 
Heh, so much truth in that sentence. ;)

I don't know a single person who has a licenced purchased copy of Windows XP unless it came with a newly purchased system. Since my friends don't buy computers often (they're not computer nerds, nor do they really care about getting the latest and greatest OS and patches and such), I guess its fair to say that I only know one person with a purchased copy of WinXP, and only because he bought a new machine 8 months ago.

Just go to any Uni residence and ask someone if they have a copy of WinXP that you could borrow. Too easy. :D

If he actually purchases a copy of WinXP for his self-built PC, it'll be expensive.
 
edesignuk said:
I don't know anyone who builds their own PC's who has a licensed copy of XP though :eek: :D
Click to expand...

i know a lot of people used pirated windows, but realize there's a ton of software bundled with any major brand pc, granted only 40-60 percent of that is good for my purposed, but it's still hundreds of dollars of stuff and not as easily pirated as windows

i have some good connections if i want to build a pc...i get software discounts by being a microsoft certified professional and a microsoft tech net developer...i live in the svr (silicon valley region) and parts are cheapest here...and local circuit cities and fry's and office depots put cheap stuff here not nationally advertised and ship it all to the silicon valley stores to move it FAST...there is no place in the world that has the deals that my area has for building a pc from scratch...check out office depot or circuit city and look at those nationally advertised prices...now deduct 10 to 40 percent from those prices, especially for parts if you buy here...one of the good things at working in office depot in northern california was the close proximity to the major pc companies and the extra deals they gave only our districts knowing that it would sell/move in silicon valley...if it can't sell here then it won't sell anywhere...every baby born here has an electronic engineering degree as a default setting in their brain ;)

but, it still does not offer the advantage of being the big four...hp/compaq, emachines, ibm, and dell in the sheer volume, and volume discounts these makers get...and the big boys have it down where they can get lots of stuff cheap and having decent to excellent quality

better manufacturing, robotics, better trained staff, and the gradual weeding out of shoddy manufactuers has made the big boys privy to a waterfall of basically fail safe hardware...now software, well, on the pc side, there is still a ways to go to have all that pc bundled software work seamlessly with windows...but it is better now than in the days of windows ME and 2000 where very little worked that well with the os if it related to higher end multimedia

but higher and multimedia and mac hardware/mac os...that was a match made in heaven from day one and is one of the things one should mention to a pc user...us mac types have a good working relationship with the workings of macromedia and adobe stuff...and the mac os has more control on the backend of that software which is crucial and time saving for graphics and sound professionals

in the long run, a mac, for creative types, pays for itself and is cheaper to use than a pc...pre press houses will charge extra for files submitted that were made on a pc due to extended back end tweaking on their part

unfortunatley, os x does not have the total control os 9 had on the back end but i have high hopes for tiger...we need to have os x have true back end font management and it should have been worked out at least a couple of years ago

well, nothing is perfect, but macs are far closer than any pc i know of ;)
 
there is no longer any financial angle to building your own pc...it just simply costs more these days...five years ago, it really made sense to save money and buy the parts a la carte...but times change

but it is still fun and people have done some of the strangest fun zaniest things...i know one gamer who put ten fans in his pc and it does run cooler and thus faster than any other pc with similar processors, video card, etc

some kinky techies here hooked up adult toys to their machines which would work on cue to a video cam and his partners identical setup so they can have a type of sex beyond phone sex...the networked machines work the "toys" remotely at the command of the users...it certainly got national attention and stands as one of the most creative pc computer mods ever made...last i checked, hp/compaq or dell does not have such a machine for sale ;)
 
jefhatfield said:
some kinky techies here hooked up adult toys to their machines which would work on cue to a video cam and his partners identical setup so they can have a type of sex beyond phone sex...the networked machines work the "toys" remotely at the command of the users...it certainly got national attention and stands as one of the most creative pc computer mods ever made...last i checked, hp/compaq or dell does not have such a machine for sale ;)
Click to expand...

LOL!
:D

"Try that on a Mac!" ;)

There is no ducussion or argument if you want to compare a Mac to a home-built PC without a licensed copy of Windoze. Just two totally different worlds. We all know about that by now, I hope.
Never try to convince cheap-high-end-gaming-PC zealots that a Mac is good value. They will laugh their a$$ off.
It's just like comparing "scrapheap challenge car which goes 200 mph" (= home built PC) to a BMW (obvious... a Mac) :p
 
5300cs said:
"Hey!! That's not fair! There were 2 power cables!!"
Click to expand...

Back when that ad was made, it was common for most PCs to have two power cables. One came in from the wall, and the other one powered the display. For some reason they don't usually have the 'output' one anymore.
 
How is it not fair? There's a cable that goes from your monitor to your surge protector, and from your PC to your surge protector. That's two cables.

:confused:
 
Easy answer to people like that. Ask them to find a laptop as good as an iBook for less. It ain't gonna happen.
 
The tour yesterday was in the hopes of buying parts and making a pc for under ¥20,000 ($200.) Comparing a do-it-yourself pc for that cheap (and I mean cheap in both senses of the word) and comparing it to a Mac is really unfair. It's like comparing a bag from Woolworths to a Gucci, or a Timex to an Omega. It really pisses me off when people compare the 2 :mad:

And I WAS going to show off the PowerBooks & iBooks but the group left before I could :mad: :mad:
 
Alienware computers are expensive but you get better components than a $599 Dell Pentium 4. Windows people that build their own PCs should know that the components can change the price of the computer a lot. Tell them the G5 is like one of those Alienware PCs. Low-end Macs start at $799 and include a nice software bundle and are more comparable to those cheaper PC brands. There is also a lot of software that is included with OS X that you don't see like CD imaging, speech, Applescript, free R/W MS Word support, stickies, development tools, FTP server, ssh server, firewall, web services, X windows, UNIX shell and utilities. To buy most of these tools for Windows would cost hundreds if not thousands of dollars.

I would consider iMovie a $99 dollar program and Garageband, iDVD and iPhoto too. It's nice that they are standard with every Mac purchase.
 
edesignuk said:
I don't know anyone who builds their own PC's who has a licensed copy of XP though :eek: :D
Click to expand...

Well, I do. :eek:

We need to run one stupid dongle protected program and it only runs on XP. It is pretty cool that most people coming in are used to Windows, but after a while most people wait to use the Macs for day-to-day tasks instead of having to use the Windows machine.
 
Yeah, This arguement is a little one sided as I build my own PC's for very little money and they do perform very well. I do have a liscensed copy of WinXP that I bought for $139. It's OEM so basically you can buy the full version of WIN XP Pro for $139 as long as you are buying new hardware (Hard drive, mobo, processor, etc. But it doesn't have to be all. You can buy just the OEM with a hard drive or anything like that.)

And as far as it goes where it is 'cheaper' to buy from a major resaler. That's total bs. Maybe if you wanted a $300 computer it is cheaper (with liscensed operating system) but the point of building your own computer is to build a higher end desktop for less money.


Also, another nice thing PC's have that Macs are just getting is standardization. I like being able to choose what Case I want and how big of a motherboard I want. The processor/heatsink/motherboard/ram/videocard. It's just nice to be able to COMPLETLY customize your own computer.

And as far as sticking 10 case fans in a case, That won't make your computer run faster. Just allow for a overall cooler system, which is good for overclocking which we PC people are also Way ahade in. For instance, we have phase change/water cooling systems that you can buy to cool your processor just to overclock.


I don't hate the mac's I really like macs. Just the PC guy is somewhat right and you are somewhat right. PCs are very hard to compair to macs. They both have their flaws.

Also I'd like to point out that Windows XP is very stable. I would say as stable as OSX. I'm not retarted and I know how to use my computer and keep it clean. Thus it stays stable.


Thanks.
 
BornAgainMac said:
Alienware computers are expensive but you get better components than a $599 Dell Pentium 4. Windows people that build their own PCs should know that the components can change the price of the computer a lot. Tell them the G5 is like one of those Alienware PCs. Low-end Macs start at $799 and include a nice software bundle and are more comparable to those cheaper PC brands. There is also a lot of software that is included with OS X that you don't see like CD imaging, speech, Applescript, free R/W MS Word support, stickies, development tools, FTP server, ssh server, firewall, web services, X windows, UNIX shell and utilities. To buy most of these tools for Windows would cost hundreds if not thousands of dollars.

I would consider iMovie a $99 dollar program and Garageband, iDVD and iPhoto too. It's nice that they are standard with every Mac purchase.
Click to expand...


What brand of hard drives do mac's use?

Western Digital and Maxtor are ****ty drives. Period.

Also, some of that stuff is trivial. It's just like buying a PC and having all this software preloaded that you may never use. I can never see myself using stickies. Not only that but we have things like sourceforge.net where most of that stuff can be had FOR FREE.


Also, on PC's if you want Unix or Xwindow just install Linux or Unix.
 
JeffTL said:
Easy answer to people like that. Ask them to find a laptop as good as an iBook for less. It ain't gonna happen.
Click to expand...



Well what are you basing that on?

I could say that a Dell D600 is a better laptop overall but I don't know what you're saying exactly.
 
5300cs said:
Hot and/or smart chicks dig Macs, only hefers like pcs :D
Click to expand...

Can't account for the hefers and PC's, but I know that a lot of chicks do dig the Mac's for some reason...well at least all the ones in the Design fields and a few have said my iBook was cute.

Mike
 
MrJohnson said:
but the point of building your own computer is to build a higher end desktop for less money.
Click to expand...

yeah, in the 90s what you say might hold true, but you can still find a higher end computer with os and software apps from a major maker cheaper...when and if you personally have the ability to buy parts by the tens of thousands and software titles too, then you can compete dollar for dollar

you can put hardware together for a good price and maybe even in the range of a major maker, but it's the software, title for title, compared to a major maker which will make you go way over budget compared to that major maker

but that being said, i believe all paid professional techies and many hobbyists should build a machine just for the experience...you can build a dell with so many different combinations that it will suffice for most pc users out there, but making a machine for yourself from individual parts does give you the advantage to add or subtract parts in any combination leaving the builder with a virtually endless list of possibilities

though i don't condone it, many techies steal software titles and make the software portion of their computer a no cost operation leaving all available money for hardware parts...many kids, and some adults, like to brag that they got the whole adobe software suite and gazillions of free tunes put on their machines for free and they don't see the harm in it

but for people like me who spend money to get technical training, become certified, get college and graduate degrees, and get business licenses all in the pursuit of being a techie/analyst/engineer/teacher/etc, it is a slap in the face when people steal software, and hardware, in order to get or make the coolest computer on the block for "cheap"

but on the other hand, it doesn't, however, justify the high prices the record industry tries to charge the consumer for music...which was the biggest factor in why people got into napster and other online forms of sharing and swapping music

it will be many years before a settlement will be made between all interested parties involved and at the end of the day, the record industry will no longer have the power they once had over our wallets ;)
 
Pretty men dig Apple iWhatevers.
5300cs said:
Then he laughed and led the group out of the Mac section to go look at pc notebooks. I really could have cheerfully killed him at that moment.
Click to expand...
He probably thinks you're not man enough to use a PC too, seeing how you got the cute Mac.
 
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