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I must be crazy, i think the older model MBP sucks big time!! It looks outdated, awkward, and has a dim screen. I no have the new UBMP and its simply unbelievable!!!!!! There's a reason no one complains about the glass screen on the iphone. Stop resisting change, and be open minded. With time, EVERYTHING gets better.

Smaller glossy screens aren't as bad because there isn't as much glass to receive the glare. It's easier to find a position where there isn't a huge reflection. The 13" MB didn't bother me at all. Anything larger than that is a problem.

With time everything gets better? I doubt that's true. If it was true then there wouldn't be the axiom "they don't make them like they used to". I think you need to me more objective instead of loving everything Mac puts out, just because it's Mac.

I'm a wow'er myself and am having an issue with the game. this MBP doesn't run WoW half as good as my black macbook did. I really think apple needs to come down on nvidia for this as the chips seem to be defective. Barring that issue I happen to love the new design and if this video card issue gets cleared up then I can go back to being a happy apple user.

I'm running wow faster myself. I can run with 2x antialias, advanced shadows, full resolution, full screen glow comfortably (about 50+ fps). Maybe you did what i did and forgot to put the graphics system in performance mode via the system preferences? It's set to econo mode by default.
 
I came to this forum really looking g into a mac book pro. After reading everyones co plaints I might stick with dells. Ihave had good luck with them in the past although they don't seem to last too long, I don't think a mac would be any more reliable. Especially since they use the as e parts as a dell, they just cost alot more for gimics like cheep grades of metal for the chassis. I really just want the operating system.
 
I came to this forum really looking g into a mac book pro. After reading everyones co plaints I might stick with dells. Ihave had good luck with them in the past although they don't seem to last too long, I don't think a mac would be any more reliable. Especially since they use the as e parts as a dell, they just cost alot more for gimics like cheep grades of metal for the chassis. I really just want the operating system.

Start small then...get a mini or low-end macbook and go from there.

Then again you could do the hackingtosh thing...
 
Everything is glossy

Glossy screens achieve deeper blacks and better-looking colors. Thats why just about every type of flat-panel display has gone glossy...tvs, notebooks, desktop monitors, etc. I'm guessing that Apple made this decision based on market research...people like glossy. In fact, I remember Jobs saying, "People love glossy displays" when the new iMac was 1st introduced. The previous gen MBP matte option was likely available to see which sold better, and guess what? I bet the glossy screens sold so much better that it didn't make sense to continue offering them. I'm sure the folks at Apple had many long meetings before this decision was made. The glossy revolution is industry-wide and isn't going away soon. Anyway, there's clearly a market for glare-reduction add-ons, and I'm sure we'll see some more options soon.
 
I don't think a mac would be any more reliable

The one thing I tell my customers when they're debating Mac vs PC for music production, relates to reliability. When software and hardware manufacturers test for bugs on their products, it's almost impossible to test all combinations of hardware and other software on a PC. There are just too many variables to be properly proactive.

However on a Mac, there is a smaller handful of units to test for. Plus, the same company makes the hardware and the operating system. It is for these reasons why Mac is theoretically more reliable. You could consider this when making your decision - not to mention that Macs almost never get viruses.

When I list my complaints about the MBP, I'm comparing it to a PC standpoint. It's still better than most if not all of the PC laptops I've owned. You're right though, the operating system is the big thing. It absolutely kills Windows hands down. A funny story I'd like to add regarding my new Microsoft Bluetooth mouse. I plugged it in and it worked instantly on Mac OSX, but I couldn't get it to work in Windows even though Windows detected it was there. I followed the instructions perfectly. That incident reminded me of why I chose Mac.

Glossy screens achieve deeper blacks and better-looking colors. Thats why just about every type of flat-panel display has gone glossy...tvs, notebooks, desktop monitors, etc. I'm guessing that Apple made this decision based on market research...people like glossy. In fact, I remember Jobs saying, "People love glossy displays" when the new iMac was 1st introduced. The previous gen MBP matte option was likely available to see which sold better, and guess what? I bet the glossy screens sold so much better that it didn't make sense to continue offering them. I'm sure the folks at Apple had many long meetings before this decision was made. The glossy revolution is industry-wide and isn't going away soon. Anyway, there's clearly a market for glare-reduction add-ons, and I'm sure we'll see some more options soon.

Sorry but i have to add my not-so-humble opinion here - and people may disagree or outright reject what i have to say so take it for what it's worth. IMO, glossy screens are for consumer computers and for those who are persuaded by curb appeal and not practicality. IMO (again) glossy screens are great for watching movies, and playing video games (consumer stuff) but not as good as a professional tool. It artificially hypes the colours and makes things harder to see. In the 90s we would buy big, ugly anti-glare shields for our monitors to stop this from happening. Now we're voluntarily adding this to our displays? Honestly, the next time you pick up a book and read it, take a pane of glass and put it over the book and see if it makes things easier to read. Probably not. Because the glossy screens appeal more to consumers (which is a larger demographic) compared to professionals, they can make more money and sell more units.

To further the debate of the designs of apple (I'm sorry but I'm trying to look at things objectively rather than simply love everything apple does), I'd like to comment on their new cinema screens. Yesterday I got fed up with my work area and wanted to increase its functionality and efficiency. After getting used to the glossy screen on my MBP I thought it would advantageous to pick up the 24" cinema so I could use the "docking" features. Well, i get the thing home and put it on my desk. It is absolutely HUGE! It seems however with glossy screens that the larger it is, the more it's affected by glare (the glossy screens on the 13" hardly bother me at all). I can hardly use this thing without closing my blinds. It's almost like sitting in front of a mirror when the screen is off. My 20" matte cinema can be used even with the blinds raised - no problem. However at night, it's awesome for playing games and watching movies! I really liked the fact that it had internal stereo speakers and an internal power supply (a cinema screen doesn't have to be THAT thin Apple - balance functionality with design please!!).

I'd really like if Apple made a 20" cinema with the same features. The 24" dwarfs everything else on my desk and more looks like an entertainment center than a workspace. I haven't decided if I'm going to keep it yet as it really isn't necessary to have a 24" screen to do what I do. I'd rather take the $999 (CDN) and buy a new HD tv for the living room!

I'm not sure why Apple is obsessed with size. I thought the 17" iMacs were perfect for the desktop. If your computer is supplemental to your work, why would you need to waste such a big footprint with a 20"? Seems a little too Freudian to me - that bigger is always better. I thought the 12" Powerbook was one of the coolest laptops ever made.

To each their own I always say. There are different groups competing for the features that suits them the best. Therefore people might not always get what they want and you will always have unsatisfied customers.
 
Sorry but i have to add my not-so-humble opinion here - and people may disagree or outright reject what i have to say so take it for what it's worth. IMO, glossy screens are for consumer computers and for those who are persuaded by curb appeal and not practicality. IMO (again) glossy screens are great for watching movies, and playing video games (consumer stuff) but not as good as a professional tool.

Professional tool for what? Not color work. Matte screens have a texture on them that makes the image washed out and less sharp. When people talk about Glossy improving an image what they really should be saying is that it shows the true image and matte distorts it. Using a glass LCD screen for the first time was like putting on glasses after living with myopia for seven years.

Photos are glossy, magazines are glossy, comic books are glossy, TVs are glossy, other people's monitors are glossy. What matte surface is the "color pro" trying to match exactly with his/her matte screen?
 
How did we ever manage all those years when we didn't have glossy screens? :eek: I guess we weren't really doing anything important in the publishing world... thank God Apple rescued us with glossy, reflecto screens..! :cool:

They could have revised the Classic style with unibody construction, leaving the signature Mac look, instead of adopting the PC look.
 
I can't believe how well they're holding their value - some are selling for only 200-300 dollars below what a new one would cost. Apparently there is still a demand for the old 15"s. I wonder why that is? (grin)

That's because people hate change and regardless to how good an item is they are adverse to trying it because CHANGE IS SCARY.

People are also idiots, to use your example, why else would they pay 1700-1800 for a MBP when they can get a refurb for 1350? Probably not the best example of intelligent consumerism eh?
 
To the OP. I agree with you completely. Apple is finally getting bigger than they can handle and it is starting to go to their head. They are slowing dropping their 'purpose and reasoning' behind their decisions and design methods, and are simply appealing to the general population in order to make more cash.

There are a lot of people around here who come on with there only mac-unibody-glossy- screen and think its the best in the world. But do they know about previous computers/screens/builds/qualities? No. There is a VERY LARGE group of people with opinions like you, who understand and simply dont need to come on and agree. Its the ones that dont agree that will post like crazy.

With that said, I currently have both a glossy and a matte (SR MBP) the matte wins, but the glossy is not toooo bad.
 
I just ordered a Moshi Clearguard and quite frankly, I am not too fond of it so far. My speed of typing has greatly been reduced, and I think I am going to sell it soon. Great concept, and the thing looks awesome, but its not for me.

Hm, doesn't affect my 80 wpm at all.
 
I don't get it...

Why are people still beating this old horse?
I think the horse has taken more than it's fair share of beatings, of late... don't you?

Seriously... It's becoming long in the tooth. Don't get me wrong, but there will always be people who'd prefer one over the other, it's called personal preference and from Apple's understand, if they gotten it wrong this time, on the next revision they will correct it. That's always been the case for them. There isn't a single company in the world that can design a product to please 100% of it's users, on any release.

I think, people who moan about the glossy or glassy screens, well... there are anti-glare sheets available. Why can't they just buy one of those and erm.. attach it to the display? Is it really that difficult? Alternatively, buy a used machine from the like of ebay or amazon. I'm pretty sure there are satified users who are offloading their old machine...
 
my experience

I moved from a Powerbook G4 to a unibody MacBook, and I really enjoy the new computer. As for the screen, I really appreciate the ambient light sensor and how it adjusts the screen brightness and backlighting for the keys. There was clearly some attention to detail and the unibody construction feels very solid.
 
There are a lot of people around here who come on with there only mac-unibody-glossy- screen and think its the best in the world. But do they know about previous computers/screens/builds/qualities? No. There is a VERY LARGE group of people with opinions like you, who understand and simply dont need to come on and agree. Its the ones that dont agree that will post like crazy.

With that said, I currently have both a glossy and a matte (SR MBP) the matte wins, but the glossy is not toooo bad.

I think it depends on your vision too. I better people with better vision have less problem with it.
 
I don't get it...

Why are people still beating this old horse?
I think the horse has taken more than it's fair share of beatings, of late... don't you?

Seriously... It's becoming long in the tooth. Don't get me wrong, but there will always be people who'd prefer one over the other, it's called personal preference and from Apple's understand, if they gotten it wrong this time, on the next revision they will correct it. That's always been the case for them. There isn't a single company in the world that can design a product to please 100% of it's users, on any release.

I think, people who moan about the glossy or glassy screens, well... there are anti-glare sheets available. Why can't they just buy one of those and erm.. attach it to the display? Is it really that difficult? Alternatively, buy a used machine from the like of ebay or amazon. I'm pretty sure there are satified users who are offloading their old machine...

I noticed you mentioned "if they gotten it wrong this time, on the next revision they will correct it". If we don't give Apple feedback on how we feel about the products, how will they know what to correct? It's important that we voice our criticisms, as long as they're constructive and not destructive. Where would our societies be if nobody objected to the higher powers?

Indeed I am looking for an older model right now, but the newer models are indeed faster and snappier. My problem is not with what's on the inside, but what's on the outside. Hopefully they will address some of the complaints (matte option, bezel the edges of the chasis etc).

FYI, after combing through Ebay I'm seeing a trend. More people are bidding on the matte screens and the glossy screens are relatively untouched.
 
That's because people hate change and regardless to how good an item is they are adverse to trying it because CHANGE IS SCARY.

People are also idiots, to use your example, why else would they pay 1700-1800 for a MBP when they can get a refurb for 1350? Probably not the best example of intelligent consumerism eh?

Apple consumers are well known for going out and buying anything new that Apple releases. If this is true, then your statement would be false.
 
I think, people who moan about the glossy or glassy screens, well... there are anti-glare sheets available. Why can't they just buy one of those and erm.. attach it to the display? Is it really that difficult? Alternatively, buy a used machine from the like of ebay or amazon. I'm pretty sure there are satified users who are offloading their old machine...

I like my "glassy" MBP, but I bought one of those anti-glare sheets. It was difficult to apply and it didn't look good. Just sayin'
 
I like my "glassy" MBP, but I bought one of those anti-glare sheets. It was difficult to apply and it didn't look good. Just sayin'

Which one did you use?

There's so many of them on the market now, often it's fairly difficult for a user to find one that's perfect IMO. In the past I've used the Anti-glare sheet by PowerSupport but I believe this product is expensive and difficult to purchase outside of Japan.
 
There will always always always be people that complain when change happens even for better... I know this I was in politics.

Right, because the political world is the only place where people lament change...

However, in this case the OP's quite right; many changes were certainly not for the better.

The only thing that in this case apple cares is that guys who dont like the change are a minimal %... which in this case I think it is...

Had a little trouble understanding you here, but there are many people who dislike the glassy/glossy screens.

And I never really understood why people hate so much glossy screens I work in all environments and well... doesnt make a difference to me...

Clearly it does to them..?
 
Apple consumers are well known for going out and buying anything new that Apple releases. If this is true, then your statement would be false.

Neither of my statements had to do with the new machines, only with the old ones.

First was a reason why people might avoid the new design and screen, change is scary.

Second had to do with people stupidly paying 1700-1800 for a used previous gen when they can get a refurb prev-gen for 1350.
 
Neither of my statements had to do with the new machines, only with the old ones.

First was a reason why people might avoid the new design and screen, change is scary.

Second had to do with people stupidly paying 1700-1800 for a used previous gen when they can get a refurb prev-gen for 1350.

Who says change is scary? I highly doubt that. People love innovative changes on Macs - I sure do, but the recent changes puzzle me:

* no firewire port on the Macbooks (MB buyers now have to buy a MBP)
* matte option only on the 17" uMBP (15" MBP buyers now have to buy a 17")
* dropping the 17" imac (now you have to pay more for a 20")
* sharp edges on the edge of the MB bodies (so you can easily slit your wrists when you get your Visa statement)

I've started using my Santa Rosa MBP again (matte screen) and my 20" cinema (matte) and I find I can work a lot longer without getting tired compared to my uMBP and 24" cinema (glassy). I experience a lot less eyestrain and fatigue which is great for me because I have to use my computer several hours a day.

To go off on a tangent, I was going to add the big clunky trackpad and it's lack of button, but I think that's more of a personal thing. When I use my laptop, I'll always opt for the button over the trackpad. The only time I'll use the trackpad is if I'm opening the laptop for something quick or forgot my mouse. Trackpads have always been quite awkward and slow compared to a mouse. What do you the rest of you think?

If most of us usually opt for the mouse whenever possible, what's the point of having a multitouch trackpad? I guess it would be cool for photo manipulation etc. I'm just thinking out loud here.
 
When I first heard from my home insurance I was getting the new UMBP I cringed. The keyboard looked very offputting as I preferred the older, brushed Alu look and feel.

The glossy or glassy screen didn't appeal to me much either but Seeing as I have been buying apple products since the 90s, and I love their OS and software I thought "meh give them the benefit of the doubt and go look at one"

I have to say that even though the keyboard still looks and feels hideous I love the new design especially when you can put an older MBP next to it, the older 2006 MBP looks clunky, feels squeeky and bloated compared to the new design.

However I am not going to complain or decide against buying a new mac because of aesthetics as I love what's under the hood and always have.

Overall apple has done a marvellous job With the new unibody chassis it's just a shame to see so many people buying the new machines only to change their mind and buy a dell all because they hate the aesthetics


Sure apple should have put a matte option on the screens but I don't mind glassy in fact I think they enhance color and graphics. I work in a dimly lit room anyway but for those on the go with their macs the glass is a bad idea on apples part

All in all apple have done great it's the lack of alternative options for the consumer that they failed on

I think what grinds my gears even more is all the new mac lovers who only buy a mac as an accessory or because it's "cool" to have one then they go return it to daddy and demand a windows machine as they don't realize that all it takes is less than 1 hour to learn how to use leopard and how much more stable and reliable the OS is compared to windows

Me I am a Linux lover and of course OSX, to me it's what's under the hood that counts , the design is an added bonus!
 
Speaking of glossy screens and impracticality,

I'm going to be buying Imacs for a class i'm teaching soon. I was originally going to purchase the White iMacs because they would be cheaper and because they have matte screens. Plus I liked the idea of using 17" because they were more portable. However, I like the idea of getting the aluminum ones since there is less change of having to upgrade, and they're more readily available if I have to add a seat.

I was looking at how hard it was to remove the hard drive. I couldn't believe how much more difficult it was with the iMac. You actually have to remove the glass and the screen whereas the white I mac it was just a few screws and you were inside.

However I did notice something interesting. If you remove the pane of glass, you then have a matte screen. If someone made a black bezel that went around it, you might be able to convert it into an "anti-glare" iMac.
 
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