iPhone SE (2016) Not upgrading to SE 2020 because it's too big?

[hipnetic]

So I was really starting to get excited about the new SE. I was following the threads the last few days, and excitedly jumped over to Apple.com when it was officially unveiled. I had already prepared myself for the rumored likelihood that it wasn't going to be as small as the old SE and was basically going to be an iPhone 8 with new internals, and yet I was still excited about it.

After upgrading from a 5 to a 6s, I held onto that for a few years before finally upgrading to the XS, and then "downgrading" to an SE when I decided that the XS was just too big and heavy, and I didn't love FaceID, either.

So, because I had used a 6s for a few years, I figured the size of the 8 (same as 6/6s/7) would probably be "fine". But then I clicked on the "Why Upgrade" link on Apple's site, which brought me to this page:

iPhone SE

A superpowerful chip. A superstar camera. A leap in battery life. A fast 5G connection. A pocket-size 4.7” design. All for $429.

www.apple.com

And, wow, it really drives home the fact that the size difference between the old SE and the new one is significant. And then I tried to remember back when I was using my 6s (and previously my 6) and tried to remember just how "happy" I really was with it. And I remembered that I was actually still pretty frustrated with the decreased one-handed usability of it when I switched from the 5 to the 6. I remembered trying out the reachability feature, and remembered that I thought it was actually a pretty bad/lame workaround.

A couple of days ago I was sure that I was going to upgrade, primarily to get a better camera. I missed the PQ of my XS, but didn't want the increased size/weight (and FaceID) of the XS. But is the smaller size/weight of the new SE (compared to the XS) going to feel "small/light enough"? Or am I going to find myself feeling mostly the same as I did with my XS, and looking over at my old SE and thinking, "That old SE's size/weight was perfect...why did they do this?...screw the camera, I'll be happier using that old SE for a while longer."

Anyone else feeling as conflicted as I am?

 

[mattopotamus]

It really does suck that "phones" do not really exist anymore. Like you, I would love nothing more than the SE (2020) in the OG SE shell.

 

[BugeyeSTI]

I think hard core 4 inch users won't be happy with the larger form factor and loss of headphone jack among other reasons

 

[hipnetic]

It really does suck that "phones" do not really exist anymore. Like you, I would love nothing more than the SE (2020) in the OG SE shell.

Unlike a lot of folks, I'm actually not even that much in love with the old SE design. I think it's quite beautiful (if a bit dated now), but I find the sharp edges to be a bit uncomfortable. I'd actually like a more comfortable-to-hold design, with no sharp edges and a case/back that is made out of a grippier plastic/rubber material, that is also more durable, such that I wouldn't need to use a case and wouldn't worry about it getting damaged if I dropped it.

FWIW, I've actually been using my old SE with no case, since the purchase price was low enough that I didn't worry too much about the possibility of it breaking and needing to be fixed/replaced. So it allows me to truly maximize the smaller size and weight that it offers. But, like I said, it's not ideal, as the sharp edges make it less-than-comfortable to hold, and the slippery metal back increases the risk of dropping it.

I think hard core 4 inch users won't be happy with the larger form factor and loss of headphone jack among other reasons

Everyone's needs are different, but for me, the lack of a headphone jack isn't a concern. I have AirPods and a CarPlay head unit in my car, which I plug in via lightning to keep the iPhone's battery charged.

 

[oVerboost]

It really does suck that "phones" do not really exist anymore. Like you, I would love nothing more than the SE (2020) in the OG SE shell.

And there will be people with old flip phones and Nokia's that say the SE was never a "phone" either.

Times change! People's needs change. Do you not think Apple did research? Did a market risk assessment with the new device and forecasted sales?

If everyone with a 4" iPhone is so happy with their devices, keep them! They still get support, and updates. They will likely be getting iOS14 as well due to how buggy iOS13 has been - buy a new battery and enjoy them.
You can still buy a brand new original SE if you know where to look, and for hardly any money at all.

What should Apple have done? Not released a new budget phone at all? At least judging by forums, social media and even the Android forums and Reddit - the SE is going to be a massive success over a long period of time.
It will attract Android users, it will make people with iPhone 6, 6s, 7 and 8 to upgrade in most cases as well as those with even older devices who understand that technology and needs have shifted. This then ties people to Apple and their Apps, their services, their subscriptions, their ecosystem - a lot of which won't be compatible with the really old phones. That is going to be Apple's main money earner in the future, not hardware really.

How is giving a years Apple TV subscription to someone with a 4" screen worthwhile?! Seriously? It's not. But on a 4.7" screen it's watchable, at least for most.

The SE chassis has been out of production, as is the tooling etc. The 6,7,8 production line is ready to go, along with probably millions of screens, buttons and other stuff reducing costs, whereas developing a new small phone would have cost a lot of money, money that they would have then had to add into the cost of the device. It wouldn't be cheap, and it likely would have only pleased the same amount of people as the new model has.

The 5.4" iPhone coming later this year is the small device, it's been said many, many times already on these forums and in the tech media.

For me, something (the new SE) is a lot better than absolutely no price friendly device. Which Apple could have quit easily done, forcing people to either stick with their old iPhones, leave Apple (for some that wouldn't happen), or for a large amount - stretch their budgets and move up to a device that is either too big for them, or too expensive with features they would never use.

** I will add, I have an original SE currently and have actually had 4 of them! I think they are great devices, but I personally have ordered the new device because of the upgrades and benefits it brings over it not being small, with crap battery life that comes hand in hand when you have a device running latest software and apps that aren't optimised for a device made half a decade ago.

 

[mattopotamus]

And there will be people with old flip phones and Nokia's that say the SE was never a "phone" either.

Times change! People's needs change. Do you not think Apple did research? Did a market risk assessment with the new device and forecasted sales?

If everyone with a 4" iPhone is so happy with their devices, keep them! They still get support, and updates. They will likely be getting iOS14 as well due to how buggy iOS13 has been - buy a new battery and enjoy them.
You can still buy a brand new original SE if you know where to look, and for hardly any money at all.

What should Apple have done? Not released a new budget phone at all? At least judging by forums, social media and even the Android forums and Reddit - the SE is going to be a massive success over a long period of time.
It will attract Android users, it will make people with iPhone 6, 6s, 7 and 8 to upgrade in most cases as well as those with even older devices who understand that technology and needs have shifted. This then ties people to Apple and their Apps, their services, their subscriptions, their ecosystem - a lot of which won't be compatible with the really old phones. That is going to be Apple's main money earner in the future, not hardware really.

How is giving a years Apple TV subscription to someone with a 4" screen worthwhile?! Seriously? It's not. But on a 4.7" screen it's watchable, at least for most.

The SE chassis has been out of production, as is the tooling etc. The 6,7,8 production line is ready to go, along with probably millions of screens, buttons and other stuff reducing costs, whereas developing a new small phone would have cost a lot of money, money that they would have then had to add into the cost of the device. It wouldn't be cheap, and it likely would have only pleased the same amount of people as the new model has.

The 5.4" iPhone coming later this year is the small device, it's been said many, many times already on these forums and in the tech media.

For me, something (the new SE) is a lot better than absolutely no price friendly device. Which Apple could have quit easily done, forcing people to either stick with their old iPhones, leave Apple (for some that wouldn't happen), or for a large amount - stretch their budgets and move up to a device that is either too big for them, or too expensive with features they would never use.

** I will add, I have an original SE currently and have actually had 4 of them! I think they are great devices, but I personally have ordered the new device because of the upgrades and benefits it brings over it not being small, with crap battery life that comes hand in hand when you have a device running latest software and apps that aren't optimised for a device made half a decade ago.

Not faulting Apple one single bit. You don't get rich catering to the niche.

 

[oVerboost]

Not faulting Apple one single bit. You don't get rich catering to the niche.

Sorry, I re-read that and it looks like the whole thing was aimed at you - it wasn't lol. Just the bit about people wanting decent flip phones and old Nokias that went away when smartphones took over.

 

[mattopotamus]

Sorry, I re-read that and it looks like the whole thing was aimed at you - it wasn't lol. Just the bit about people wanting decent flip phones and old Nokias that went away when smartphones took over.

It's all good. I appreciate the follow-up though. We need more of that haha

 

[rui no onna]

And there will be people with old flip phones and Nokia's that say the SE was never a "phone" either.

Lol, with the upcoming Verizon CDMA shutdown, replacing our emergency flip phone is actually an issue. It's on a defunct Pay As You Go $0.10/min plan and replacing the phone would up plan pricing to at least $20-30 per month. That one has amazing standby battery life, too (only needs to be charged once a month).

If everyone with a 4" iPhone is so happy with their devices, keep them! They still get support, and updates. They will likely be getting iOS14 as well due to how buggy iOS13 has been - buy a new battery and enjoy them.
You can still buy a brand new original SE if you know where to look, and for hardly any money at all.

Bought two 2016 iPhone SE BNIB sealed on eBay last year and neither one would activate. Never again.

 

[hipnetic]

If everyone with a 4" iPhone is so happy with their devices, keep them! They still get support, and updates. They will likely be getting iOS14 as well due to how buggy iOS13 has been - buy a new battery and enjoy them.
You can still buy a brand new original SE if you know where to look, and for hardly any money at all.

This thread is not intended for people like you. I did not buy the old SE because of price. I bought it because of its smaller size. There are some number of other people out there who, like me, would actually pay a *premium* for a high-end iOS device that had a high-end camera, but which was in a smaller body...a device that could be comfortably used one-handedly.

Everything larger than the 5/SE is clumsy (and even dangerous) to use with one hand. It could even be argued that the 5/SE is a little too big, and that the 4-series before it was the ideal size for one-handed use. And, no, to proactively counter an erroneous claim that is often made: My hands are not small. I'm 6'2", and even if my hands were slightly "below average" size for a person of my height, I'd be willing to bet that my hands/fingers are probably longer than the average person's hands, since the average height of a person is considerably shorter than 6'2".

Some will claim that the new SE, the 11 Pro, the 11, and even the 11 Pro Max are perfectly usable one-handed. I disagree. *Can* you use any of those with one hand? Sure. But it requires shifting the phone around in your hand as you use it to reach things in different places, which with how slippery these phones are, combined with the fact that using a large device with one hand makes it "top heavy", you're not only using it in an uncomfortable manner, but you're also more prone to drop it.

Aside from one-handed usability, a larger phone is also more uncomfortable to carry in your front pants pocket, unless you're someone who wears cargo pants exclusively.

I get that a smaller phone can also mean decreased battery life and less "room" for other circuitry (e.g., a high-end camera, or even multiple cameras). I personally would be willing to have the phone be a bit thicker and heavier, to accommodate a larger battery and better camera(s). Other fans of a smaller phone may disagree on that.

BTW, I also reject this notion that Apple did "studies" to confirm that everyone wants larger phones. The majority may very well want larger phones, but I believe there's a large enough group of people out there that would love a smaller, but still feature-rich, iPhone. Enough for it to be profitable for Apple to offer it.

 

[rui no onna]

BTW, I also reject this notion that Apple did "studies" to confirm that everyone wants larger phones. The majority may very well want larger phones, but I believe there's a large enough group of people out there that would love a smaller, but still feature-rich, iPhone. Enough for it to be profitable for Apple to offer it.

Apple doesn't really need to do "studies", they just need to look at their sales distribution. The rumored revamp of 5.4/6.1 iPhone 12 and 6.1/6.7 iPhone 12 Pro suggests most people don't want to pay $1K for a 5.8" phone.

 

[oVerboost]

This thread is not intended for people like you. I did not buy the old SE because of price. I bought it because of its smaller size. There are some number of other people out there who, like me, would actually pay a *premium* for a high-end iOS device that had a high-end camera, but which was in a smaller body...a device that could be comfortably used one-handedly.

Everything larger than the 5/SE is clumsy (and even dangerous) to use with one hand. It could even be argued that the 5/SE is a little too big, and that the 4-series before it was the ideal size for one-handed use. And, no, to proactively counter an erroneous claim that is often made: My hands are not small. I'm 6'2", and even if my hands were slightly "below average" size for a person of my height, I'd be willing to bet that my hands/fingers are probably longer than the average person's hands, since the average height of a person is considerably shorter than 6'2".

Some will claim that the new SE, the 11 Pro, the 11, and even the 11 Pro Max are perfectly usable one-handed. I disagree. *Can* you use any of those with one hand? Sure. But it requires shifting the phone around in your hand as you use it to reach things in different places, which with how slippery these phones are, combined with the fact that using a large device with one hand makes it "top heavy", you're not only using it in an uncomfortable manner, but you're also more prone to drop it.

Aside from one-handed usability, a larger phone is also more uncomfortable to carry in your front pants pocket, unless you're someone who wears cargo pants exclusively.

I get that a smaller phone can also mean decreased battery life and less "room" for other circuitry (e.g., a high-end camera, or even multiple cameras). I personally would be willing to have the phone be a bit thicker and heavier, to accommodate a larger battery and better camera(s). Other fans of a smaller phone may disagree on that.

BTW, I also reject this notion that Apple did "studies" to confirm that everyone wants larger phones. The majority may very well want larger phones, but I believe there's a large enough group of people out there that would love a smaller, but still feature-rich, iPhone. Enough for it to be profitable for Apple to offer it.

If you post on a public forum, expect to get public replies! It is intended for everyone to use, read and reply as they wish.

I think you are wrong. Plus your not even reading my reply. You say you will pay a premium for an SE sized device when I just said there will be one! The 5.4" is literally a couple of mm larger all round than what the SE is. They cannot get todays tech into anything smaller.

People have different sized hands, so saying even a SE is too large and "dangerous" to use is ridiculous. I can genuinely use a 6/7/8 one handed without a single issue. As can many others. You say you have "long fingers" compared to most, yet find even the SE too large? Doesn't add up I'm afraid.

Also as a side note, you say the new generation of phones are slippery - that's not actually the case. The glass backs actually give the phone grip against the skin compared to simply cold metal.

A large phone is uncomfortable to carry, I agree. But the 6/7/8 in my pocket feels hardly any different to my SE does because it is also thinner, and it has curved edges which aren't sharp when the device is used for any period of extended time.

If you think that Apple didn't do any market research your delusional. You think they just produce something, throw it onto the market and hope for the best? Seriously, they wouldn't be the success they are if that was their practise. If it were, you'd have new "innovations" every year that were simply gimmicks that they hoped would sell. That never has been Apple's business strategy.

I never said that Apple think EVERYONE wants larger phones, in fact they've done this to offer the smallest from anything else they offered, 8 aside which they could have just pulled from the line up anyway with no other option forcing many to buy the XR or 11 as the next cheapest option, or the 5.8" Pro model as the smallest offering. How much do you think producing a new small phone would cost? Including new tooling, testing, sourcing new materials and time on designs etc? More than you probably even realise. Where as the new SE enabled them to make it for next to nothing in comparison, and pass that saving onto the customer.

As an example, if Apple could (they can't) fit the later camera tech, improved modem, updated the processor and GPU and other bits - yet it came out in the same old SE form factor, how many do you think would buy it? Would it attract buyers over from Android devices or make people consider replacing their older 6,6s,7,8 devices? No it wouldn't. It would cater for the small amount who love the SE, and they are right to love it, it's a great device as I've already said. But your looking at it from your own personal wants, not the masses.

Think about it this way... if Apple make such as successful phone that offers great specs for a small amount compared to the flagships, it's only going to mean that they won't be able to increase the prices so easily on the next line of phones as the gap won't be big enough to warrant the price difference for many. This will also mean that Apple are catering for more people's wants, including original SE owners by offering the 5.4" phone later this year! It will have all the latest tech, and probably be around $650-$700 but with a squared design very similar to the original SE. Surely that is good enough for the people who want small? I don't see any one else offering anything similar in the market that anyone would genuinely buy and trust to last long term.

 

[Infinite Vortex]

My impression is that the SE 2020, like the original SE, is more about being cheaper than the flagships (basically everything else) rather than specifically being about being small. If the focus was really about being small it wouldn't be sporting the re-used shell of the iPhone 8. We're well past this.

 

[oVerboost]

My impression is that the SE 2020, like the original SE, is more about being cheaper than the flagships (basically everything else) rather than specifically being about being small. If the focus was really about being small it wouldn't be sporting the re-used shell of the iPhone 8. We're well past this.

Yep. SE stands for Special Edition. Not Small Edition - regardless of the keynote that used small as a selling point when reality was they needed to maximise profit from the older form factor and because the 6s wasn't selling as well as they had hoped at the start, I think too many people are just stuck on SE standing for small - when it doesn't.

 

[hipnetic]

If you post on a public forum, expect to get public replies! It is intended for everyone to use, read and reply as they wish.

I didn't say you weren't allowed to post here. I said that the post was not intended for people like you (who like the new SE because it's priced cheaper). So commenting here when you're coming from that angle, just clutters up the discussion (no offense) for people who *do* view the old/new SE from that perspective. So, yes, you're absolutely free to participate in this thread. But just know that if you spend most of your words disagreeing with people who want a smaller phone, it will just come across as trolling.

If you think that Apple didn't do any market research your delusional.

And, again, you're misinterpreting what I stated. Per my first comment, I'll just leave it at that.

As for the rumored 5.4" device, it's still just that: a rumor. If it comes to fruition and is physically only slightly larger than the old SE, then Apple will likely be getting my money. Even though I prefer TouchID over FaceID, I can live with FaceID if I have to (others may disagree). But, as of today, that rumored 5.4" model isn't something any of us can buy today.

 

[Brien]

Meanwhile I yearn for a 7” iPhone.

 

[NewUsername]

I used to have an SE and thought it was the perfect size; now I have an iPhone 8 and I actually prefer the new size. I would advise you to get the new SE and get used to it. It's not a big deal.

 

[Septercius]

Not faulting Apple one single bit. You don't get rich catering to the niche.

Yet Apple produces the Mac Pro, iMac Pro and Pro Display XDR. Aren't those niche products?

I wonder what drives the trend towards bigger and bigger phones - is it customers or manufacturers?

I used to have an SE and thought it was the perfect size; now I have an iPhone 8 and I actually prefer the new size. I would advise you to get the new SE and get used to it. It's not a big deal.

What makes you a barometer for public opinion? Are we forced to like something because you do? Because that's what your post reads.

 

[oVerboost]

What makes you a barometer for public opinion? Are we forced to like something because you do? Because that's what your post reads.

I'm not saying this to be a dick, genuinely... but your original post at the start reads exactly the same!

There's not much point making a post on a forum and shutting down every single reply that doesn't fit your own personal narrative.

 

[akash.nu]

Yet Apple produces the Mac Pro, iMac Pro and Pro Display XDR. Aren't those niche products?

I wonder what drives the trend towards bigger and bigger phones - is it customers or manufacturers?

Macs and iPhones aren’t the same and the target markets aren’t the same either. That comparison is moot.

 

[dcpmark]

Meanwhile I yearn for a 7” iPhone.

Why so small?? Just wait til you try the 7.9" iPhone.....I've been using one for years, and I could never go back to something as small as a 7" display.

 

[Lowhangers]

I am using an iPhone SE 32 GB and I still love it. I considered this Fake SE, but decided against it as I have dealt with larger phones before. Cook should have been honest and called this phone what it really is: The iPhone 8s.

As for me, I’ll stick with the real SE I currently own, the Fake SE is not my cup of tea. My battery is about 88 percent so I’ll need to get that replaced at some point, but other than the battery my real SE does everything I need it to do.

Your mileage may vary, and if you like the Fake SE then more power to you.
[automerge]1587169845[/automerge]

Unlike a lot of folks, I'm actually not even that much in love with the old SE design. I think it's quite beautiful (if a bit dated now), but I find the sharp edges to be a bit uncomfortable. I'd actually like a more comfortable-to-hold design, with no sharp edges and a case/back that is made out of a grippier plastic/rubber material, that is also more durable, such that I wouldn't need to use a case and wouldn't worry about it getting damaged if I dropped it.

FWIW, I've actually been using my old SE with no case, since the purchase price was low enough that I didn't worry too much about the possibility of it breaking and needing to be fixed/replaced. So it allows me to truly maximize the smaller size and weight that it offers. But, like I said, it's not ideal, as the sharp edges make it less-than-comfortable to hold, and the slippery metal back increases the risk of dropping it.

Everyone's needs are different, but for me, the lack of a headphone jack isn't a concern. I have AirPods and a CarPlay head unit in my car, which I plug in via lightning to keep the iPhone's battery charged.

Go on Amazon and you can find gel stickies to put on the back. They are grippy and will make it much easier to hold. Egrip or something like that I think they are called. Work very well.

Edit: Try this link, there are number of things here you can use to make it grippier:

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=as_li_...3ce3db3a8a5b2d9741f5732e698c82&language=en_US

UPDATE: I threw in the towel and ordered the new SE. Hypocrite! Well, yes that would be me. 😂😁🙄

 

[oVerboost]

I am using an iPhone SE 32 GB and I still love it. I considered this Fake SE, but decided against it as I have dealt with larger phones before. Cook should have been honest and called this phone what it really is: The iPhone 8s.

As for me, I’ll stick with the real SE I currently own, the Fake SE is not my cup of tea. My battery is about 88 percent so I’ll need to get that replaced at some point, but other than the battery my real SE does everything I need it to do.

Your mileage may vary, and if you like the Fake SE then more power to you.
[automerge]1587169845[/automerge]


Go on Amazon and you can find gel stickies to put on the back. They are grippy and will make it much easier to hold. Egrip or something like that I think they are called. Work very well.

Edit: Try this link, there are number of things here you can use to make it grippier:

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=as_li_...3ce3db3a8a5b2d9741f5732e698c82&language=en_US

Should have called your SE the 5ss by your logic.

SE stands for Special Edition; the latest tech into an older device at an affordable price. That’s it.

 

[Useless Touchbar]

If you prefer "cheap" phones, buy this new iPhone SE.

If you prefer smaller phones, I suggest you wait for the 5.4" iPhone 12. Sure it'll cost a bit more but I think that's the phone a lot of people really want. Only marginally bigger than iPhone 5/5S whilst having the latest tech.

 

[bombardier.v2]

I was looking forward to this announcement, but for me, it's too big but perhaps in a slightly different sense to some. My issue with my SE is that the resolution is so low (comparatively) that more often than I'd like I come across websites that are just not built with displays that small in mind. Even those built to be responsive might have a 'submit' button that I can't click on, or so much hidden by the keyboard that you can't move between fields etc. My issue with the SE2020 is that the resolution is not that much higher, so actual screen real estate isn't going to be that much greater, and that's perhaps what puts me off of getting one.