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Now that the M1 iMac does not allow booting from a clone, is there any advantage of CCC?
- Thread starter jaybar
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I don't have an M1 yet - but my understanding is that it is possible to clone a boot-able drive and even have it "incrementally update-able" but with some limitations and considerations - see this link
I am able to clone my Mid 2015 rMBP (not an M1) / Monterey / Beta 4 and have tested it - works fine
Beyond that - there are many benefits to using CCC over Time Machine
I am able to clone my Mid 2015 rMBP (not an M1) / Monterey / Beta 4 and have tested it - works fine
Beyond that - there are many benefits to using CCC over Time Machine
The document has conflicts. It clearly says the bootable approach is not reliable with silicone Macs and is not preferred
I use both Time Machine and CCC. I think there are some general advantages and some specific advantages.
General
- It is good practice to maintain two backups, with each made using different backup software, of important data.
- Time Machine is cobbled together and not well documented.
- I think Time Machine is best for quick recoveries from minor mistakes, such as accidentally deleting a file.
- CCC's developer is conscientious and engaged.
- CCC has extensive online help and FAQs on its website.
- CCC seems to have a very large user base.
if you're on Big Sur and/or M1, CCC is just a copy app of folders/data now. what's the point of a clone if you can't boot from it
i love CCC and have been using it for years but i've had an M1 since the Mini came out and CCC flat out tells you 'this is not a bootable clone' when i first ran it on my new Mini.
i have moved on to running a synology NAS and using that to house the backups of my mac and phones. i still use CCC since it's still a paid-for app, but just to backup user folder. once license runs its course and I have to pay to use it, that is when my CCC era ends.
i love CCC and have been using it for years but i've had an M1 since the Mini came out and CCC flat out tells you 'this is not a bootable clone' when i first ran it on my new Mini.
i have moved on to running a synology NAS and using that to house the backups of my mac and phones. i still use CCC since it's still a paid-for app, but just to backup user folder. once license runs its course and I have to pay to use it, that is when my CCC era ends.
Wow. What a bummer - and a pain in the ... for backup/emergency purposes.
I've personally never used CCC for anything else than cloning but I see it has functionality to only backup selected files. I suppose if you already have the license kicking around why not keep using it. But the killer feature is no longer there.
I've personally never used CCC for anything else than cloning but I see it has functionality to only backup selected files. I suppose if you already have the license kicking around why not keep using it. But the killer feature is no longer there.
"But the killer feature is no longer there."
I don't yet have an m-series Mac. I like Intel. So maybe I'm talkin' through my hat, but...
...It seems that others HAVE created external clones that DO boot m1 Macs.
There are threads posting such results here at MacRumors.
I sense the "killer feature" (being able to boot and run from a clone) is still possible on m-series (at least for now), but requires more work to "get it right".
Again, one of the reasons I intend to keep using an Intel Mac on my desktop for as long as possible is the "external cloned booting" feature.
I don't yet have an m-series Mac. I like Intel. So maybe I'm talkin' through my hat, but...
...It seems that others HAVE created external clones that DO boot m1 Macs.
There are threads posting such results here at MacRumors.
I sense the "killer feature" (being able to boot and run from a clone) is still possible on m-series (at least for now), but requires more work to "get it right".
Again, one of the reasons I intend to keep using an Intel Mac on my desktop for as long as possible is the "external cloned booting" feature.
According to CCC, the bootable option is not completely reliable, which they confirmed with Apple. They offer it, but not as a default and do not recommend it, as the Primary backup strategy. Again, for those with M1 Macs, where does that leave us about using the software? Are there clear advantages to continue to use it, or should we just use Time Machine?
I have the license. I am open to continue to use it. Their support has been great. Just not sure about its superiority to TM any more. TM has always worked will when I have gotten a new Mac. I assume that using multiple backup applications is advantageous in some way.
This was posted by the CCC developer:
Back in December I had a conference call with Apple about the reliability and functionality of ASR on macOS and regarding Apple Silicon Macs in particular. They indicated that they were working to resolve the ASR/Apple Fabric issue, but they made it very clear that copying macOS system files was not something that would be supportable in the future. Many of us in the Mac community could see that this was the direction Apple was moving, and now we finally have confirmation. Especially since the introduction of APFS, Apple has been moving towards a lockdown of macOS system files, sacrificing some convenience for increased security.
I don't have their new type of hardware myself but that sounds like external clones may for the time being still boot but only because Apple hasn't yet gotten around to implementing all of their master plan.
Also sure sounds like you could use more or less anything for backups now since the CCC backups are no longer 'special'. Personally I haven't used Timemachine ever, I'd probably go with Free File Sync because its familiar to me and does both straight mirroring and versioning.
the "bootable clone" issue started with Big Sur, also on Intel machines and it is due to changes Apple has made.
While I can still create a bootable clone (on my iMac), if you continue backing up to it it will stop being bootable ...
I am currently not backing up my MBA as I do not have unique data on it and am running Monterey ...
I only got the CCC license about a month ago, I like how it works ...
I have been using TM for years and I am planning to continue using it but my external hard drives have been causing me problems that I need to resolve. TM has worked for me though I never had to do a full system restore, just occasionally some files.
I do like the idea of dual backup strategy using 2 tools, and then having multiple backups ...
While I can still create a bootable clone (on my iMac), if you continue backing up to it it will stop being bootable ...
I am currently not backing up my MBA as I do not have unique data on it and am running Monterey ...
I only got the CCC license about a month ago, I like how it works ...
I have been using TM for years and I am planning to continue using it but my external hard drives have been causing me problems that I need to resolve. TM has worked for me though I never had to do a full system restore, just occasionally some files.
I do like the idea of dual backup strategy using 2 tools, and then having multiple backups ...
It just makes me sad to watch Apple pushing the Mac further into a walled garden.
CCC has been my backup tool of choice for so many years and it never let me down. At least I'll continue using it for all kinds of scheduled incremental backups of my work data.
CCC has been my backup tool of choice for so many years and it never let me down. At least I'll continue using it for all kinds of scheduled incremental backups of my work data.
SuperDuper 3.5 beta 3 says it can create bootable backups for M1 Macs. I have that version and I am using it with my new M1 Mac Mini but so far I have not been able to see my SD backups when I open the Startup Disk preference. I only see the startup disk on my Mac Mini. Hopefully that will soon change. I'm surprised that no one has mentioned SuperDuper. I've used it for years with my Intel Mac.
I don’t think it will change, for the same reasons noted by CCC. An M1 Mac, according to Apple, can only boot from its internal drive. CCC seems to have explored this with Apple. It seems that the machine will not boot, even if there is a theoretical bootable clone, because it needs a partial boot sequence that must come from the M1 Mac’s internal drive. I may not be phrasing it exactly, but that is the general idea. If you M1 iMac fails, you cannot boot from an external boot drive.
While you can’t make bootable clones with it, it still is a very capable backup tool. I make clones of my data volume, and to copy smaller chunks of data. Better UI and scheduling than Time Machine.
I would agree. However I find the automatic backup feature of Time Machine compelling too. I use both. I like the simplicity of TM compelling. Set it up and forget it. Both have their advantage.
CCC is still nice for backing up externals but yes…the easy, emergency bootable clone seems to be kaput. Bombich has had a good run but unless something changes in their favor the demand for CCC will wane.
jtmacb wrote in #13 above:
"I am using it with my new M1 Mac Mini but so far I have not been able to see my SD backups when I open the Startup Disk preference. I only see the startup disk on my Mac Mini."
Could you try the following and report your findings:
1. Power down, all the way off
2. Connect the SuperDuper cloned backup
3. Press the power on button and hold down the option key until the startup manager appears (I'm guessing this still works on m1's)
4. Do you see the cloned backup now...?
5. If you DO see it, will the Mac boot from it?
(Note: for the above to work, I believe you must first boot to the recovery partition and DISABLE the settings in startup security to allow external booting [again, not sure how this works on m1 Macs])
We need "evidence" from users "in the field"...
One final thought:
If Apple's software designers knew they were creating a Mac (m1) that could not be booted from an external drive, WHY did they leave the "startup disk" preference pane so obviously "in place" ??
"I am using it with my new M1 Mac Mini but so far I have not been able to see my SD backups when I open the Startup Disk preference. I only see the startup disk on my Mac Mini."
Could you try the following and report your findings:
1. Power down, all the way off
2. Connect the SuperDuper cloned backup
3. Press the power on button and hold down the option key until the startup manager appears (I'm guessing this still works on m1's)
4. Do you see the cloned backup now...?
5. If you DO see it, will the Mac boot from it?
(Note: for the above to work, I believe you must first boot to the recovery partition and DISABLE the settings in startup security to allow external booting [again, not sure how this works on m1 Macs])
We need "evidence" from users "in the field"...
One final thought:
If Apple's software designers knew they were creating a Mac (m1) that could not be booted from an external drive, WHY did they leave the "startup disk" preference pane so obviously "in place" ??
As others have mentioned here, creating a bootable backup is only one use for CCC. In my particular use case (I'm a photographer), CCC is an indispensable part of my backup routine. My photos sit on external drives and I need to backup those external drives to other external drives (and often across multiple drives of various capacities), including and excluding specific files as I go. And ensure that any copies are bit-for-bit identical. I can't think of any piece of software better for doing that than CCC.
Of course, if your main use case is simply backing up your Mac, then Time Machine will probably do what you need.
Speculating as I don’t have an M1 but maybe it is still there to select which internal partition to use if there are several O/S installed, assuming you can still do that? (Or whatever the right APFS term is now with containers etc.)
I haven't tried it on my M1 yet, but CCC was able to clone 11.5.1 easily on a Hackintosh I just upgraded to a larger NVME. So I would say on Intel it still works fine, which I know is not what the OP asked.
Bootable clones are definitely still possible with CCC, though they work differently than in the past. Currently, on Big Sur, when making a backup of your system drive it will only copy the data portion. Like others have mentioned above, the system files do not come along for the ride. After the CCC backup is complete, you can install Big Sur on top of the backup to make it bootable. Once this is done, you can continue to use CCC to keep the clone up to date.
The only difference in this process is that right after the CCC 'clone' has been completed, you have to take the extra step to install macOS on that 'clone' to make it bootable and get the system files on there. Due to the warnings against its use, I have not bothered trying the 'Legacy' cloning feature in CCC.
For functionality other than cloning, I am a big fan of CCC and use it to maintain a pretty big set of backups. One of the features I find indispensable, is the fact that it checks if files on cloud drives (like OneDrive) are actually there or just the placeholder file. It has saved me many times from thinking something was backed up when it wasn't.
The only difference in this process is that right after the CCC 'clone' has been completed, you have to take the extra step to install macOS on that 'clone' to make it bootable and get the system files on there. Due to the warnings against its use, I have not bothered trying the 'Legacy' cloning feature in CCC.
For functionality other than cloning, I am a big fan of CCC and use it to maintain a pretty big set of backups. One of the features I find indispensable, is the fact that it checks if files on cloud drives (like OneDrive) are actually there or just the placeholder file. It has saved me many times from thinking something was backed up when it wasn't.
I have been extremely pleased with CCC since version 1.0. The developers keep CCC well documented, and the help files are always extremely informative.
I have always liked to have cloned backups on external drives if needed in a pinch. It seems that Apple makes this more difficult with each version of macOS and each hardware update. The Mac mini M1 is a prime example. I have found that CCC can still make bootable clones to external drives using its "Legacy Bootable Backup Assistant." The only problem with it is that I usually have to use Disk Utility to erase and recreate the APFS boot volume first. But starting up from the external clone is not as easy as it used to be.
One can no longer go to the M1 Mac mini's System Preferences -> Startup Disk window and select to boot to an external clone. (In fact the cloned drive may not be displayed because of a macOS bug CCC has not worked around.) If one tries to select a cloned drive, an error message is displayed preventing the selection. One can't select the clone there!
One must start the M1 Mac mini and hold down the power button until the screen displays the "Startup Options." The external clone can be selected there. The M1 reboots, an "Authentication" window is displayed where an administrator name and password must be entered. Then a progress bar is displayed and the M1 appears to hang when the bar reaches its end. Let the M1 sit for a 10-30 seconds with nothing apparently happening. The M1 eventually reboots again and the boot from the external drive is finally completed.
This is far from ideal, but CCC has in fact created, and the user has, a bootable external drive.
YMMV
I have always liked to have cloned backups on external drives if needed in a pinch. It seems that Apple makes this more difficult with each version of macOS and each hardware update. The Mac mini M1 is a prime example. I have found that CCC can still make bootable clones to external drives using its "Legacy Bootable Backup Assistant." The only problem with it is that I usually have to use Disk Utility to erase and recreate the APFS boot volume first. But starting up from the external clone is not as easy as it used to be.
One can no longer go to the M1 Mac mini's System Preferences -> Startup Disk window and select to boot to an external clone. (In fact the cloned drive may not be displayed because of a macOS bug CCC has not worked around.) If one tries to select a cloned drive, an error message is displayed preventing the selection. One can't select the clone there!
One must start the M1 Mac mini and hold down the power button until the screen displays the "Startup Options." The external clone can be selected there. The M1 reboots, an "Authentication" window is displayed where an administrator name and password must be entered. Then a progress bar is displayed and the M1 appears to hang when the bar reaches its end. Let the M1 sit for a 10-30 seconds with nothing apparently happening. The M1 eventually reboots again and the boot from the external drive is finally completed.
This is far from ideal, but CCC has in fact created, and the user has, a bootable external drive.
YMMV
NC Bulldog, your post above effectively rebuts and disproves the title of this thread, which is:
"Now that the M1 iMac does not allow booting from a clone..."
Obviously, a false premise, because one still CAN create "a clone" and one still CAN get booted from it (albeit with a little more effort).
Thanks for posting.
"Now that the M1 iMac does not allow booting from a clone..."
Obviously, a false premise, because one still CAN create "a clone" and one still CAN get booted from it (albeit with a little more effort).
Thanks for posting.
