NVidia 7800 GT Option, More Dual Core G5 Benchmarks

[Zoowatch]

I thought I read that the Quad is, in fact, liquid cooled. Am I misremembering this?

i have not seen Apple mentioning this anywhere that the Quad is liquid cooled...

i am also 99% sure that it is cooled by fans

 

[wibbly_pig]

UK store is down. Perhaps the 7800 is finally arriving here too? Or something more interesting?

 

[agreenster]

Will the 7800 work in the first generation dual 2gig G5s?

Where could I buy it stand-alone?

 

[gugy]

From AppleInsider:

Apple's new high-end Power Mac G5 Quad and NVIDIA's GeForce 7800 GT graphics card are both in the final testing stages at Apple and could begin shipping in the second half of November, according to reports.

Apple's online store currently lists lead times of 3 to 4 weeks for the Power Mac Quad and 6 to 8 weeks for the NVIDIA 7800, but Apple representatives recently told an AppleInsider correspondent that the company hopes to ship the first batch of both products in mid-to-late November.

Power Mac G5 Quad Ultimate configuration

In the weeks that will follow, Apple retail stores nationwide will begin to stock a special Power Mac G5 Quad configuration that will include the 7800 GT as standard, according to reliable sources. The configuration will be called the "Power Mac G5 Quad Ultimate" and will retail for around (US)$4000 with 1GB of DDR2 RAM and other component upgrades.

NVIDIA GeForce 7800 GT delays

Slowing the release of the 7800 appears to be a stringent set of Apple acoustic guidelines which the graphics cards must meet before they can be included inside the new Power Macs. Since the 7800 packs its own fan in addition to its 256MB of GDDR3 SDRAM, Apple wants to be sure the cards do not contribute significantly to the noise already produced by the Power Mac's own cooling system.

Apple reportedly uses a sophisticated set of software algorithms to active or deactivate specific fans inside the Power Macs depending on the type and size of the data being processed. In addition to the two inlet and outlet fans present in each Power Mac G5, the Power Mac G5 Quad requires a liquid cooling system to help regulate the temperature inside the computer.

Liquid Cooling System

Once again, it appears that Apple has tapped Troy, Mich.-based Delphi-Harrison for the cooling systems, which are manufactured in Mexico and flown to Apple's manufacturing facilities in the Far East. The cooling systems resemble an automotive radiator and consist of approximately 80% water with an added mixture of corrosion inhibitors and bacterial growth preventatives.

Though it's uncertain, reasonable speculation suggests that the Power Mac G5 Quad may be seeing delays associated with its few specialized components -- mainly the liquid cooling system and faster 2.5GHz IBM PowerPC 970MP processors.

Apple performance benchmarks

Although Apple has not shipped any Power Mac G5 Quad systems that could be used to perform benchmarks calculations, tests run by the company in September show the Quad to be 88% faster in double-preciscion math calculations than the previous-generation Power Mac Dual 2.7GHz model. Likewise, the Quad proved to be 39%, 55% and 85% faster than the Dual in BBSv3 multiple-processor tests, Cinebench multiple-processor rendering tests, and floating-point calculations, respectively.

Power Mac G5 Quad vs Power Mac G4 Dual

Apple also compared the performance of the Power Mac G5 Quad to the Power Mac G4 Dual 1.42MHz in a series of software tests. According to the results, the Quad performed a 45-filter Photoshop CS2 test 184% faster than the Power Mac G4. In After Effects 6.5.1 the Quad faired even better, completing a visual effects rendering test 272% faster than the G4.

Real-world benchmarks

However, the only real-world Power Mac G5 Quad benchmark comes from Luxology, developers of the Modo surface modeling environment. According to a recent posting by the company's Allen Hastings, the Power Mac G5 Quad renders over twice as fast as Apple's previous Power Mac G5 Dual 2.5GHz systems.

"We had the opportunity to try one of the new quad G5s with modo 201 and I must say I was impressed with its speed," Hastings wrote in a message to the Luxology online forum. "As an example, it rendered the global illumination test image shown above in 17 seconds flat. The scene includes 244,000 polygons with 8 sample antialiasing and 200 indirect rays."

By comparison, Hastings said the Power Mac G5 Dual 2.5GHz took 38 seconds to render the same scene.

That's great news.
I can't wait to get this machine. I changed yesterday my order to add the GT card. I think the quad with GT will be a great machine for the next 2 to 3 years until Intel revB comes along. Then I think will be safe to upgrade.

Look forward to get it by end of November!

 

[Modano]

So the Quad is liquid-cooled. That should make it fairly quiet, right?

 

[JCT]

That's great news.
I can't wait to get this machine. I changed yesterday my order to add the GT card. I think the quad with GT will be a great machine for the next 2 to 3 years until Intel revB comes along. Then I think will be safe to upgrade.

Look forward to get it by end of November!

I'm with you...I held off ordering until the 7800GT showed up and then pulled the trigger. Quad Ultimate indeed! 😀

And my EDU rep seemed to think that it wouldn't take 6-8 weeks to arrive. Though it will be my luck for it to show up in the middle of my teaching schedule.....

JT

 

[chubad]

Does anyone think that this is the last upgrade to the Powermac line before the Intel switch?
I want to get a Powermac and avoid the first few years of the Intel thing. I want the Quad core G-5 but if there is one more update, even a small one, I could wait.🙂

 

[gugy]

it's very possible one more upgrade to happen. But I wouldn't expect anytime soon. It has been taking almost a year between upgrades for the G5, so maybe by end of next year we might see another upgrade for the PM PPC G5.

I think Intel PM will be here probably by beginning of 2007. So it wouldn't hurt to buy this Quad G5 now. It would take care of you until RevB Intel is launch.

 

[JCT]

I completely agree with gugy, I decided to get a Quad + 7800GT with the plan to keep it for a number of years. The PMs are rumored to be the last models to go to Intel and I want to avoid Rev A of anything.

I had the chance to see a Quad in action at the Photo Expo and it was impressive!

JT

 

[andiwm2003]

it's very possible one more upgrade to happen. But I wouldn't expect anytime soon. It has been taking almost a year between upgrades for the G5, so maybe by end of next year we might see another upgrade for the PM PPC G5.

I think Intel PM will be here probably by beginning of 2007. So it wouldn't hurt to buy this Quad G5 now. It would take care of you until RevB Intel is launch.

the buyers guide shows that the PM g5 where updated every 6 month except one update that took 10 month. so i fully expect one more update for the powermacs. but i don't expect it to be earlier than mid 2006. and i don't think it will be much more than a 10% speed bump with a moderate price drop.

in fact i think the people who bought a dual g5 6 month ago made a great investment because their machines are still top of the line. the same will be with the quads you buy now. they will be top of the line even if there is a 2.7ghz quad at some point. that 5% speed increase will not matter.

................... The PMs are rumored to be the last models to go to Intel and I want to avoid Rev A of anything.
................JT .

isn't the quad some sort of a rev. A?

 

[gugy]

I wouldn't put too much faith on IBM. Then have been very inconsistent delivering update chips to Apple. I believe we'll see another update but maybe no so impressive like the quad. So I think it's a safe bet to get the quad now if you need it.
Intel revA could be amazing. The problem will be the applications will run under Rosetta. native Intel apps might take a little longer to come so, I think is safer to wait revB of Intel. Hopefully by then we'll have almost all the apps native to Intel.

 

[AidenShaw]

isn't the quad some sort of a rev. A?

Actually, the quad is vaporware at this point 😱

Sometime in November or December, when they actually start shipping, you can call them Rev A.

(But you can call the other dual-core single chip systems Rev A - since they have new chips, new northbridge, new memory, new PCIe, new....) 🙄

 

[Eevee]

Just purchased the new dual core G5 2.0 Ghz with the 7800 Card with the 23" Display.😀 Now I have to wait till Dec 28th!!! 😱 Why such a long wait (sorry if this has been answered somewhere else)?

1) Is there a shortage of 7800 cards available for the new G5?
2) Is the 7800 not very compatible with the new G5? Heard the G5 is already noisy, and that adding the card increases the overall fan noise. Is this true?
3) Heard that Apple is trying to deactivate one of the fans on the new G5 when the fan on the 7800 card is activated.

Hmm...

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Hmm, seems like for once GPU availability isn't the culprit for the long lead times?

If I was running the show I'd look at total GeForce 6800/X800/X850 sales, increase that number by 10% and then plan on manufacturing that many 7800GT cards ASAP to avoid shipping delays. Oh, and I'd throw in some 7800GTX SLI cards for the gaming madmen!

Interesting question - when will we see SLI? If it is done Apple will probably have to do much of the work, which means never. ATI's dual card system may well be first to the Mac (if ever).

 

[andiwm2003]

Hmm, seems like for once GPU availability isn't the culprit for the long lead times?

If I was running the show I'd look at total GeForce 6800/X800/X850 sales, increase that number by 10% and then plan on manufacturing that many 7800GT cards ASAP to avoid shipping delays. Oh, and I'd throw in some 7800GTX SLI cards for the gaming madmen!

Interesting question - when will we see SLI? If it is done Apple will probably have to do much of the work, which means never. ATI's dual card system may well be first to the Mac (if ever).

how much faster is sli?

i remember somehow it is only 20% faster. in that case it would be a waste of money. probably depends on the system set up and the game/application of course.

 

[Tastannin]

how much faster is sli?

i remember somehow it is only 20% faster. in that case it would be a waste of money. probably depends on the system set up and the game/application of course.

The way I understand it is that the cards must be exactly the same, and that the game also must support SLI explicitly, otherwise it's not gonna work. Nvidia claims 2x the speed with 2 cards, and real-world speeds will range from 10% to 50% faster according to various sites I've googled.

Another con on SLI is the power draw. The Quad G5 will suck plenty of power with just a 7800 or Quadro card in there.

It's definitely a waste of money to get a 2nd high end video card for SLI and then once you've got both cards, your rig is only the best until the next high-end card comes out.

I like what I hear of ATI's SLI (different cards can be hooked up, etc) but haven't paid much attention to it lately. I'm more excited about HD hardware decoding and video encoding on the video card from ATI than I am about SLI. Hope Apple releases an ATI-based PCIe card sometime soon.

 

[andiwm2003]

.........................................

It's definitely a waste of money to get a 2nd high end video card for SLI and then once you've got both cards, your rig is only the best until the next high-end card comes out.

I like what I hear of ATI's SLI (different cards can be hooked up, etc) but haven't paid much attention to it lately. I'm more excited about HD hardware decoding and video encoding on the video card from ATI than I am about SLI. Hope Apple releases an ATI-based PCIe card sometime soon.

yeah, i got the same impression. it's probably better not to use sli and rather save the money and buy the next generation card.

i also hope that they bring the ati cards with h.264 acceleration. it seems to be only decoding. i hope they get hardware acceleration for encoding and decoding. the money would be btter spent on those cards than on a sli rig that helps with two games at best.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

I pretty much agree with you guys that SLI isn't worth the cost, especially since GPUs are still a long way off the clockspeed wall CPUs have already hit.

What I would like to see is one of the popular vidoe card manufacturers (like BFG or Sapphire) releasing a line of Mac compatible cards from ATI and NVidia that will cover the "extreme gamer" end of the line.

 

[dosers]

The Quadro 4500, on the PC anyway, is actually a BIT quiter. The 7800 GT doesn not have variable fan speed, while the 7800 GTX and Quadro does - making it a bit more efficient in fan control. Though it's possble Apple insisted on fan control on the Mac version of the card...

Cheers,
Dan

Well the 7800GT I have in my PC is certainly not silent! It's not massively noisy but as soon as there is a quieter cooler available (Arctic Cooling have one coming), I'll be replacing it. I would not be surprised if the Quadro card is worse.

 

[combatcolin]

I think we can take it as certain that the Mac version will.

And as Apple are paying, so i would also like a nice Apple logo'ed heat sink!

😎

 

[conradwt]

Switched 7800 GT back to the Standard Card in the Quad

Hi, I decided to buy a quad 2.5 but switched back to the standard graphics with the plan to upgrade the graphics card when it's available. Thus, my configuration looks as follows:

2.5GHz Quad-core PowerPC G5
2GB DDR533 NON ECC 2X1GB
500GB Serial ATA-7200rpm
16x SD DL(DVD-R/CD-RW)
NVIDIA GF 6600 256 SDRAM
23" Cinema HD Display
AirPort Extreme + Bluetooth
Apple Keyboard & Mighty Mse
Mac OS X-Multilingual
Country Kit

Thus, my estimated ship went from Jan 11, 2006 to Dec 6, 2005. I feel that I made the best decision for me based on the current situation. Just need to start doing work now and being productive for my clients; cannot wait until Jan 11.

-Conrad

Just purchased the new dual core G5 2.0 Ghz with the 7800 Card with the 23" Display.😀 Now I have to wait till Dec 28th!!! 😱 Why such a long wait (sorry if this has been answered somewhere else)?

1) Is there a shortage of 7800 cards available for the new G5?
2) Is the 7800 not very compatible with the new G5? Heard the G5 is already noisy, and that adding the card increases the overall fan noise. Is this true?
3) Heard that Apple is trying to deactivate one of the fans on the new G5 when the fan on the 7800 card is activated.

Hmm...

 

[Photorun]

Hi, I decided to buy a quad 2.5 but switched back to the standard graphics with the plan to upgrade the graphics card when it's available. Thus, my configuration looks as follows:

snip
NVIDIA GF 6600 256 SDRAM
snip

Thus, my estimated ship went from Jan 11, 2006 to Dec 6, 2005. I feel that I made the best decision for me based on the current situation. Just need to start doing work now and being productive for my clients; cannot wait until Jan 11.

-Conrad

Well it's not like you'll be let DOWN by the 6600!!! That's still a monster card. Unless you're trying to crank of crazy keyframes in Maya or heavy HEAVY duty FCP you're going to be just fine.

 

[conradwt]

Re: NVidia 7800 GT Option, More Dual Core G5

Hi, it seems that this configuration is doable from reading the information contained in section (5) of the following page:

http://www.apple.com/powermac/pciexpress.html

-Conrad

Are you sure they will both fit in the Quad? Don't both these cards require the only available 16x PCI Express slot in this machine?
I agree it's better to get the machine sooner and add the 7800 later, which is what I'm doing. It's worth the (say) $200 not to have to wait an 4-6 additional weeks, in my opinion.

 

[conradwt]

Hi, after switching my order on Novemeber 19th, my order shipped today, November 25th. Now, that's a huge change from January 11th if I would
have kept the 7800 GT graphics card option.

-Conrad

Well it's not like you'll be let DOWN by the 6600!!! That's still a monster card. Unless you're trying to crank of crazy keyframes in Maya or heavy HEAVY duty FCP you're going to be just fine.