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Gold is crashing and Nvidia is climbing in unison… Interesting.

Looks like there is no safe haven for the incoming crash… That is interesting. Looks like could will be a real actual depression once the tariff consequences sink in for real.
It's interesting where you got that information.
Even if gold is crashing, that doesn't directly "trouble" the US dollar, as it is not based on anything. The trouble would start if (or when) foreign countries stop using the US dollar as the currency for transactions. And it seems they have already begun that trend, dealing with other countries using their own currencies, or, for example, the Yuan.
 
And everybody knows Nvidia will be the one hit hardest when the AI bubble pops. I would be selling Nvidia right about now.
Someone will enter the ranks of the world's wealthiest off the short position on Nvidia...and many more will go broke trying to time that position.
 
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People are confusing LLMs with AI.

There are different types of machine learning that aren't language based, nVidia's chips are Machine Learning hardware, not LLM hardware. Currently the AI trend is for LLMs which absolutely have a limitation and that bubble will burst. They won't go away, but they're not going to be 'THE' AI models we use.

AI involves things like Self-driving cars (not LLM), Image and Video analysis or generation (not LLM), coding generation, mathematics processing, physics simulators (not LLM).

OpenAI and Anthropic might disappear or get bought out by an AI company that does more than LLMs and they'll just become a small UI part of a much larger AI or AGI model. But all those other types of machine learning still need hardware to operate on, and nVidia's chips are still the best for that task.
Oh no I couldn’t function without Home Depot Magic Apron, or Amazon Rufus, plus the great phone customer service AI 🤣
 
People are confusing LLMs with AI.

There are different types of machine learning that aren't language based, nVidia's chips are Machine Learning hardware, not LLM hardware. Currently the AI trend is for LLMs which absolutely have a limitation and that bubble will burst. They won't go away, but they're not going to be 'THE' AI models we use.

AI involves things like Self-driving cars (not LLM), Image and Video analysis or generation (not LLM), coding generation, mathematics processing, physics simulators (not LLM).

OpenAI and Anthropic might disappear or get bought out by an AI company that does more than LLMs and they'll just become a small UI part of a much larger AI or AGI model. But all those other types of machine learning still need hardware to operate on, and nVidia's chips are still the best for that task.
I think there is a lot of truth to this, AI will live on regardless of LLMs, and so will Nvidia. Nevertheless, I think troublesome times are ahead. While Nvidia was already a sizable company before LLMs, its current extreme valuation is tightly tied to the downright gross hardware demands of the LLM hyperscalers. Most of AI does not need anywhere close to that power. When the LLM bubble bursts, Nvidia may have a cushion of regular AI demand to land on, but it will be a deep fall from the current altitude.

Furthermore, yes, people are confusing LLMs and AI, but the LLM giants are responsible for that, constantly equating the two in their hype. And I think there is a big risk that people will keep conflating the terms when the LLM bubble pops, that we will get years of "AI failed, AI never really worked out, remember all those trillions burned on AI..." Rational or not, this will affect the public perception of AI, and with it investments into the field, both commercial and research grants.
 
Do you really think people have that knowledge here or at least they want to get it? For most people here, AI is taking jobs away from people, and that's why they're against it. The steam engine and assembly line revolution all over again.
Only stealing our jobs? I think that there are a lot more to be worry that only our jobs.

You can check the AI Slop Is Destroying The Internet by Kurzegesagt.

Very interesting
 
I think there is a lot of truth to this, AI will live on regardless of LLMs, and so will Nvidia. Nevertheless, I think troublesome times are ahead. While Nvidia was already a sizable company before LLMs, its current extreme valuation is tightly tied to the downright gross hardware demands of the LLM hyperscalers. Most of AI does not need anywhere close to that power. When the LLM bubble bursts, Nvidia may have a cushion of regular AI demand to land on, but it will be a deep fall from the current altitude.

Furthermore, yes, people are confusing LLMs and AI, but the LLM giants are responsible for that, constantly equating the two in their hype. And I think there is a big risk that people will keep conflating the terms when the LLM bubble pops, that we will get years of "AI failed, AI never really worked out, remember all those trillions burned on AI..." Rational or not, this will affect the public perception of AI, and with it investments into the field, both commercial and research grants.

I don't disagree. But nVidia's market cap is based on their share price, not their actual revenue or profitability - which will remain unaffected by any drop in share price provided they're not over-leveraged with debt.

The people that will lose their money when the LLM bubble bursts are the idiot speculators that don't actually understand the technologies or companies they're investing in. They're not really investing, they're gambling so they probably deserve it.
 
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I think there is a lot of truth to this, AI will live on regardless of LLMs, and so will Nvidia. Nevertheless, I think troublesome times are ahead. While Nvidia was already a sizable company before LLMs, its current extreme valuation is tightly tied to the downright gross hardware demands of the LLM hyperscalers. Most of AI does not need anywhere close to that power. When the LLM bubble bursts, Nvidia may have a cushion of regular AI demand to land on, but it will be a deep fall from the current altitude.

Furthermore, yes, people are confusing LLMs and AI, but the LLM giants are responsible for that, constantly equating the two in their hype. And I think there is a big risk that people will keep conflating the terms when the LLM bubble pops, that we will get years of "AI failed, AI never really worked out, remember all those trillions burned on AI..." Rational or not, this will affect the public perception of AI, and with it investments into the field, both commercial and research grants.

That'll be it really. And Altman will be the face of it all.

I would however hope most people here are computer-savvy enough to not confuse machine learning with the recent genAI hype. But after three and a half years of this show I'd say we've had our experiences and are in a position to better gauge just how disruptive genAI is in the workplace.

The magic trick is not so impressive anymore and it's what all the fuss seems based on. And we're not getting an artificial mind out of the current approach either (thank god - wouldn't want that bunch to 'own' it).

NVidia will be an interesting stock for sure to again invest into going forward. But it's going to have a serious price correction first.
 
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Does anyone else miss the good old days of tech? I miss all the competition, all the new products and different approaches to things. I miss when everything wasn't a bubble of crap.
 
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It is interesting, I've read it, but it's nothing really new. Dead internet theory is a concept for almost a decade even without AI.

In my opinion, the threat that the AI means is much much highter than other threats in the past. This death internet theory can be more than a theory in the next years.

Let's see how this continues over time. For me, I try to not use AI at all but that just my way to see it.

Also, thank you for the link. I didn't know about that theory.
 
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I kind of agree with this. Both things can be true at the same time. This has all of the feel of a bubble, and AI can still be a major disruptor that will result in large profits for the companies that succeed to the top of this space.
I see it as similar to the dot com bubble.

Crazy things happened like AOL and Time Warner 'merging' because Time Warner thought that AOL was the future. Hard to believe, I know.

Plus loads of other web companies crashing and burning at the time.

Plenty of people thought it was a bubble at the time of the crash and it was time to get back to linear TV and print and stop being silly.

Yet... Who can say now that the Web is not extremely important and transformative?

I think that the AI bubble will be very similar to this.
 
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And speaks to Apple, under Cook (starting in 2011, the vertical blue line below), giving happy repeat customers what they want. Year after year after year. Jobs... not so much.


View attachment 2573896
Apple was destined for repeat customers and a stock increase regardless if Tim was there or not. Even then, it took until mid 2016 for Apple to begin pushing the stock up significantly. Without Jobs, Tim doesn’t have a CEO job for as long as he has.
 
I don't disagree. But nVidia's market cap is based on their share price, not their actual revenue or profitability - which will remain unaffected by any drop in share price provided they're not over-leveraged with debt.

With a substantial drop , the profitability will likely sag some.

They are not entirely decoupled. Three things. A substantial portion of the demand is driven by "FOMO" (fear of missing out). The stock price increases is substantive contributing factor to stoking that fear. Tech companies throwing billions at Nvidia like drunken sailors on shore leave after 4 month long cruise. Some of what is going on here is buying up data center chips so that almost nobody else can get them. That is going to lead to higher profits than a properly functional (i.e., rational) market. Once the hype ( "company X is loosing simply because they are not buying NVidia training chip services" ) dies down , the price power also fades a bit.

Second, Nvidia paying customers large sums of money to buy their gear that suggests that customer really , really, really, don't want to pay that much for this stuff. That is a bit of 3 card monty where Nvidia books it as 'profits' in year n and then shovels the money back to the companies to buy more stuff in year n+1. Even if they get to keep that cycle going for 2-3 years, it is also a 'leaky' cycle. (gets lots more leaky if there is a mania collapse).


Third, All the large hyperscalar services vendors have their own inference SoC projects. AWS Inferentia (and Trainium ) , AZURE Miaia. Google Tensor somewhat predates Nvidia's data center efforts . China somewhat banned them (the USA is kneecaping them so two way effort there).

The more ML models get standardized , the easier they will be to port. CUDA has pragmatically a moat for Nvidia . Moats for fixed fortifications. "Fixed fortifications are monuments to the stupidity of man" -- George Patton

That moat isn't all that uniformly deep. The specific 'syntactic sugar' elements of CUDA can be wiped away with a decently trained ML tool to HIP or SYCL (or some other standardized portable format). The underlying algorithm will just come over.


The people that will lose their money when the LLM bubble bursts are the idiot speculators that don't actually understand the technologies or companies they're investing in. They're not really investing, they're gambling so they probably deserve it.


Nvidia doesn't has as much traction in inference as they do in training. ( auto ML market ... Nvidia isn't untouchable dominant. Smartphone market ... nope. PCs ... most deployments not there. etc. ) The notion of creating models so big that they 'have to' go to mega datacenters is also flawed. Making larger and larger models at some point hits diminishing returns.



That really isn't true at this point. The market indexes are really even weighted indexes. Many indexes are weighted to capture higher market cap stocks that are moving up. So when irrational speculative moves push too hard on a stock for long enough , it then tends to capture the index market funds also. The corporate board could be complete horse poo ( e.g, Tesla) and indexes will just keep blindly buying it up at distortional numbers because it hasn't tanked yet.
 
In my opinion, the threat that the AI means is much much highter than other threats in the past. This death internet theory can be more than a theory in the next years.

Let's see how this continues over time. For me, I try to not use AI at all but that just my way to see it.

Also, thank you for the link. I didn't know about that theory.
Death of the internet, and possibly civilization, will happen because people are basically stupid. Social media has given a worldwide microphone to share that stupidity anonymously. Techbros quickly saw the cash cow.
 
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