Nvidia is threatening Mac computers?

Discussion in 'Apple, Inc and Tech Industry' started by mavericks7913, May 28, 2019.

  1. tranceking26 macrumors regular


    Apr 16, 2013
  2. ActionableMango macrumors G3


    Sep 21, 2010
    What do you mean Apple should allow Nvidia driver support again...MacOS drivers require Apple's permission? When did this happen?

    Every KEXT out there has Apple's permission? Even the little open source stuff like generic USB and Webcam drivers?
  3. mattspace macrumors 65816


    Jun 5, 2013
    According to Nvidia, graphics drivers now require Apple to sign the kernel extension, which Apple is not obliging - that's their stated reason why there's no RTX drivers.

    From Apple's perspective, this might be because Nvidia's drivers reportedly were over-represented in kernel panic logs, and Nvidia wouldn't put sufficient resources behind fixing them. Or it might be because Nvidia refuses to optimise for Metal, so Metal gets equivalent performance to CUDA etc.

    IIRC there was a major reworking of the macOS graphics driver system a few months ago, might have something to do with it.
  4. SoyCapitanSoyCapitan macrumors 601


    Jul 4, 2015
    This pitch is desperate.

    macOS and Windows provide the APIs and SDKs for machine learning etc. Third party apps are using them and are free to use their own APIs.

    Apple isn’t standing in Nvidia’s way. Third parties can release their products and drivers for Mac, Windows, Linux. If anything is standing in your way it is the fact that Nvidia won’t list support on their own driver page for anything after Kepler. The only thing we heard was one little blog post about beta support for Maxwell.

    From Yosemite to High Sierra they had ample opportunity to come out of beta and announce which GPUs they would provide support for. Nothing was stopping them from updating the driver download page for the last 4 years.

    This tells us that maybe Nvidia were targeting the Hackintosh users where everything is in the gray area of piracy and unsupported and try to use performance stories on Hackintosh to win contracts back from Apple.

    Anyway, it’s always less problems when Apple controls the graphics drivers. The Kepler driver that comes with macOS had less problems than the web driver.
  5. H2SO4 macrumors 601

    Nov 4, 2008
    From what I can gather Nvidia want their driver to be included/natively supported in the MacOS. An 'It just works' scenario for want of a better term. Whether Nvidia are putting in enough effort themselves is a different matter that I suspect you don't have the answer to.
    I believe that they will require the permission/input/assistance from Apple in that regard. Sometimes you come across as deliberately blinkered.
  6. throAU macrumors 603


    Feb 13, 2012
    Perth, Western Australia


    Apple need a good kick in the backside.

    I dislike Nvidia as a company, but any competition that forces Apple to take a good hard look at their product lineup and improve it is a good thing.

    Right now the only reason to really buy mac hardware is if you are "in the ecosystem" and not because of the actual hardware any more.
  7. deconstruct60 macrumors 604

    Mar 10, 2009
    Nvidia going this route probably would have happened regardless of they were not in a finger pointing exercise with Apple. This is basically an evolution of their Max-Q campaign to put "bigger' GPUs into not quite as thin as Macbook Pro systems. Nvidia pushing to expand the range and depth of Windows laptops was going to come regardless.

    It isn't like they are releasing their own laptops. This studio campaign is out via multiple Windows PC system vendors. Nvidia is just doing some common branding ( like Max-Q) here but not actually doing the systems themselves. They are helping to pay the marketing costs so vendors jump on board. Even if they were selling more GPUs to Apple they'd still would be doing this on the Windows side.

    Even if Apple was taking Nvidia mobile GPUs in this class, Apple still wouldn't take the Nvidia co-marketing branding anymore than Apple takes the "intel inside" stickers for MacBook Pros.

    The issue for Apple is whether it would it be worth putting some feature distance between some of the Mac laptops. Instead of the whole line up piling into a general MB Air "as thin as possible" boat, that they perhaps expand on the variance of the MacBook Pro line up. A function-key retreat back to previous thickness and incrementally higher weight by 13 and 15 models. And keep the thinner lighter TouchBar line up. Some folks would use the "closer to a desktop replacement" and others the more mobile version.

    The broader set of laptop implementation is always going to be there on the Windows side. Too many "sell everything to everybody" vendors over there. Also niche fillers that fill out the competition.
  8. ActionableMango macrumors G3


    Sep 21, 2010
    If that's true, then it is anti-competitive behavior which hurts everyone, including AMD users.

    If Nvidia is not allowed to compete in MacOS, then AMD doesn't have to compete in MacOS.
  9. deconstruct60 macrumors 604

    Mar 10, 2009
    If that counts then so was kneecapping OpenCL and very few complained about that from the Nvidia camp.

    It isn't anti-competitive. Apple isn't blocking Nvidia to put in their own part. Apple isn't obligated to sign any driver that anybody submits without any cause for defect or non compliance. Normally when Apple doesn't sigh something a developer submits it means that there is a rules violation somewhere.

    Even if this was a skew by Apple's part toward AMD part selection. AMD has no were near anything like a monopolistic present in the GPU market. Apple choosing something that is NOT the monopoly part is miles away from being anti-competitive. The reverse might be he case; choosing Nvidia over AMD due to some bundling kick-back Nvidia offered.

    The fact Nvidia makes no mention of what the rules violation might have been is more suggestive that this a public relations finger pointing exercise. "Don't look at me, it is their fault".

    Nonsense. The vast majority of Mac do not ship with AMD GPUs. So again there is nothing to support the "monopoly" threshold necessary to invoke the statues.

    The biggest spend of GPU dollars that Apple makes in the Mac product line up is to Intel ; not AMD.

    That Intel is ramping up a discrete GPU business means there are multiple vendors even without Nvidia. If Intel pushed their dGPUs in bundling deals to squeeze AMD the rest of the way out in a couple of years ... that might meet the "smell test" of a anti-competitive case.

    If Apple tells Nvidia they have to jump over 5 hoops to win a design bake off and they tell Apple to "jump in the lake. I'm not doing that" then Apple that isn't the sole blocker.
  10. ActionableMango macrumors G3


    Sep 21, 2010
    Your post is a strawman argument based off of me claiming a monopoly, which I didn't say. I'm so sick of you putting words in my mouth and then attacking the words that you put there.

    An anti-competitive practice and a monopoly are two different things. Get a dictionary.
  11. mode11 macrumors regular


    Jul 14, 2015
    At the end of the day, AMD still have to compete with Nvidia in the PC market, so it's not like AMD can take their foot off the gas with GPU development. Macs will still benefit from the rising tide, even if they only ever use AMD GPUs.

    I'd like to see Nvidia on the Mac as much as anyone, but I can see why Apple doesn't want CUDA to get a lock-in with pro apps on the Mac, preferring to push their multi-vendor Metal API instead. Otherwise, Apple would essentially be forced to always offer Nvidia GPUs in their Pro machines.

    RTX is the same thing - Nvidia are clearly trying to establish their proprietary solution for ray-tracing now, to freeze out the competition in the future.

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11 May 28, 2019