NYPD Abandons Paper Memo Books for New iPhone App

[konqerror]

But unless it's backed up by some biometrics, there is no real way to know who used the app and when. Leave your phone unlocked on a bar counter and someone can edit you right into jail etc etc

All I'm saying is some wheels don't need reinventing. Sometimes just minor tweaks are enough.

When you finish an entry, you electronically sign it with a PIN, password, or biometrics. That's how electronic lab notebooks and medical records work. This is similar to a paper notebook where you draw a line then sign/initial each entry, and if it's critical, you have a witness sign it.

 

[Mansu944]

Big mistake.

 

[dan110]

I anticipate stories of bad cops hiring hackers to tamper with the data.

 

[konqerror]

I anticipate stories of bad cops hiring hackers to tamper with the data.

Which is a big improvement in security over leaving blank spots on the page to fill in later, or simply writing down entries with a different time.

 

[BF1M]

When you finish an entry, you electronically sign it with a PIN, password, or biometrics. That's how electronic lab notebooks and medical records work. This is similar to a paper notebook where you draw a line then sign/initial each entry, and if it's critical, you have a witness sign it.

I'm familiar with how some of them work. It's similar yes but not the same. There is something to be said about a physical record that could be stored indefinitely. Data can't be held, can't be watched, can you really vouch for the chain of custody? All questions that have to be asked and answered. If you think the ACLU wouldn't attack the first weakness in this....

 

[konqerror]

I'm familiar with how some of them work. It's similar yes but not the same. There is something to be said about a physical record that could be stored indefinitely. Data can't be held, can't be watched, can you really vouch for the chain of custody? All questions that have to be asked and answered. If you think the ACLU wouldn't attack the first weakness in this....

Data is cryptographically signed and timestamped. There is no guarantee that somebody didn't simply write in a number on paper later. Again, ImClone/Martha Stewart.

You place way too much trust in paper, simply because it's old. As I said, there have been many many scandals with falsification of paper records to the point that the government has mandated electronic records in some industries, particularly with the FDA.

Besides, it's wrong to think paper records can be preserved better than digital ones.

National Personnel Records Center fire - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[4jasontv]

Until autocorrect changes something and the interview notes don't align with testimony...

 

[BF1M]

Data is cryptographically signed and timestamped. There is no guarantee that somebody didn't simply write in a number on paper later. Again, ImClone/Martha Stewart.

You place way too much trust in paper, simply because it's old. As I said, there have been many many scandals with falsification of paper records to the point that the government has mandated electronic records in some industries, particularly with the FDA.

Besides, it's wrong to think paper records can be preserved better than digital ones.

National Personnel Records Center fire - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

None of those examples you mentioned, FDA, VA etc have anything to do with due process issues. That’s the rub.

oh and for what it’s worth my Grandfather lost records in that fire and had a hard time getting continued benefits because. You know how they were able to fix it? More paperwork kept along the way. It’s not that it’s old why I put faith in it, it’s because it works. It’s tangible. Evidence that can be presented, held, passed around.


If something like this isn’t rolled out correctly and people aren’t properly educated then it’ll just set the whole science/idea back years. Remember the DNA fiascos in the early years? OJ etc.

 

[djgamble]

Be interesting to see if this has any positive side-effects.

When I was arrested and charged with a crime that literally nobody committed (false complaint) the cops wrote down a heap of notes. From my observation they then went back to the station, agreed on their version of facts with the other officers and scribbled everything else out so that a bunch of inconsistencies (which I could partly read through the scribble) were never written down.

Their case against me fell over because it was absolute garbage but IMO it was pretty dodgy of them to do this. Wonder how the notebook will operate... IMO a core function of it is to get what the cops saw/heard at the site without any later tampering. I'd like to see a tamper-proof app where you can't discuss the facts with your mates and scribble everything out.

 

[konqerror]

None of those examples you mentioned, FDA, VA etc have anything to do with due process issues. That’s the rub.

They are more important because they can execute a single criminal, but when drug data is falsified or defective drugs are manufactured, hundreds of people have died.

oh and for what it’s worth my Grandfather lost records in that fire and had a hard time getting continued benefits because. You know how they were able to fix it? More paperwork kept along the way. It’s not that it’s old why I put faith in it, it’s because it works. It’s tangible. Evidence that can be presented, held, passed around.

And the onus was on you, and you happened to have the paperwork. Meanwhile in the digital age, the data is copied to two geographically independent datacenters with at least 3 different copies the moment you create it, then the same day, is written to WORM media and then taken offline for archival. That's basic cloud storage facilities.

 

[alien3dx]

Any idea how much of a pain in the ass it is to take serious notes on a smart phone? I don't care how good the app or interface is anything more than 'jotting down' a phone number is maddening.

I guess I am old.

use neebo for ipad.. it convert your hand writing to normal text.

 

[CarlJ]

I'm going to put money on a lot of speech-to-text use, which is a good thing!

That raises some interesting privacy questions - if Apple is getting audio of officers dictating the details of criminal cases. Is there some law enforcement equivalent of HIPPA laws?

 

[dontwalkhand]

Cool. This is actually better, AND far cheaper than those Panasonic Toughbooks.

 

[cmaier]

Columbo does not approve.

 

[Tech198]

Sounds like a good idea. however let the police do what they want. Everyone still needs paper at some stage... digital is just asking for trouble when it gets "miss-placed" or you can't turn on your phone because....

 

[dontwalkhand]

This will not bold well.

Considering they have had successful rollouts with smartphones since 2015 and recently iPhone (since Windows phone went bust) I think they beg to differ.
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Sounds like a good idea. however let the police do what they want. Everyone still needs paper at some stage... digital is just asking for trouble when it gets "miss-placed" or you can't turn on your phone because....

You still have the computer in the car, and you can always handwrite it and then type it in the app later once you charge the phone.

 

[cmaier]

This will not bold well.

Maybe. But it will italic just fine.

 

[dontwalkhand]

Seems like a good and logical step forward.

Reminds me of Estonia ePolice project from 2017 -

All that stuff looks like what US PD Toughbooks can do right now. I guess all NYPD is putting all that inside of an iPhone instead

 

[cmaier]

Sounds like a good idea. however let the police do what they want. Everyone still needs paper at some stage... digital is just asking for trouble when it gets "miss-placed" or you can't turn on your phone because....

Is “miss-placed” when you leave your phone at an unwed female’s house?

Columbo was always losing his pencil, so it’s not like paper was foolproof either.

 

[dontwalkhand]

That raises some interesting privacy questions - if Apple is getting audio of officers dictating the details of criminal cases. Is there some law enforcement equivalent of HIPPA laws?

I believe Apple does not keep or even hear these recordings
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I wonder if this will change law enforcement's position on creating a back door into iPhones.

These iPhones are enrolled in an MDM solution like AirWatch etc, so this is already possible from an IT standpoint with these iPhones.

 

[cmaier]

That raises some interesting privacy questions - if Apple is getting audio of officers dictating the details of criminal cases. Is there some law enforcement equivalent of HIPPA laws?

Not necessarily using apple’s back end for any dictation support?

 

[Ruggy]

Am I the only person here that uses voice to text?
Yes, it makes mistakes but so does autocorrect and it gets better the more you use it.
If this is available, I would have thought this would be brilliant for the police. I think in many case they use a dictaphone for notes anyway don't they?
I am slow to type on the phone but voice to text, and a bit of correction is really fast.
The daughter of a friend however showed us how how she can type at over 80 words a minute (and no mistakes!) holding the phone under the table so the younger generation- or maybe just some people- are better at this.
And it sounds like the advantages of centralised data, searchable etc far outweigh the disadvantages.

 

[icanhazmac]

I personally can type 10x faster on an iPhone than I can wrote and I may even type faster than on a standard computer keyboard but I imagine alot of old cops with fat fingers not wanting to give up writing.

Perhaps your fingers should diet as well!

 

[MRrainer]

And surely, they rely on the security, confidentiality and non-repudiability provided by Apple's cryptographically secured iPhone, that another department of the NYPD wants to have a backdoor to.

 

[konqerror]

And surely, they rely on the security, confidentiality and non-repudiability provided by Apple's cryptographically secured iPhone, that another department of the NYPD wants to have a backdoor to.

As has been pointed out, they're undoubtedly running a MDM solution that gives them a corporate backdoor. You would be screaming if police officers could use their phones and block access by Internal Affairs.