o2 remove 'purchase of new iPhone' clause from Terms

[mudaudio]

Hi,

I purchased my iPhone on the first day of sales in the UK. At the time I wondered if I would be able to buy the next iPhone when it came out, so I check the contract terms. Here's the relevant paragraph:

8.3 If this Agreement is ended during the Minimum Period, you may be required to pay us the monthly subscription charges up to the end of that Minimum Period. This does not apply if you end the Agreement for the reasons in paragraph 8.4 or if you purchase a new iPhone from us, but in this case you agree that a new Minimum Period will apply.
​

So, at that time, the answer was yes.

It is now clear that o2 have removed that get out clause:
http://www.o2.co.uk/termsconditions/iphone

Quite a change.... Do you think this warrants a 'change to your significant disadvantage'?

Or, are those of us who bought iPhones before the change in terms going to get shafted when the next iPhone comes out?!

Thanks,
Chris

UPDATE: 'Official' repsonse from o2:

"Hello Chris. Thank you for emailing us about buying an iPhone. If you buy a new iPhone you'll be charged for the iPhone as well as an early termination fee. The termination fee is the line rental till the end of your contract, the minimum period quoted is 18 months."

ps. I wonder if o2 either a) lost the iPhone deal for iPhone 2, and hence that clause is irrelevant, or b) they have received word a new iPhone is on it's way, and want to prevent recent and future buyers taking advantage of this clause...

 

[Project]

Keep us posted.

I am under the impression that I can easily upgrade to iPhone 2 by paying the price of the phone and starting the 18 months again

 

[aphexacid]

this is what i hate most about the iphone. when the new one comes out, i cant just take out my sim and pop it in the new one, and carry on my way.

why the hell do we need a contract extension

 

[Floop]

That's nuts. I am about to get an iPhone on O2 and this does make me stop and think. Actually, I had thought that if I bought a new iPhone and then a later model came out, I should just be able to attach the new iPhone to the old iPhone's contract, without penalty or contract extension.

Bah.

So confusing.

 

[jimN]

I get the impression that this clause was in place to cover the circumstances where a new phone is bought to replace a broken one without taking a new contract. They probably put it in to cover like for like replacement without considering what it might mean for those people replacing the phone with a newer model. As it stands I would wait and see rather than grumbling about something that is far from set in stone.

 

[emotion]

this is what i hate most about the iphone. when the new one comes out, i cant just take out my sim and pop it in the new one, and carry on my way.

why the hell do we need a contract extension

Because, essentially, the price charged by Apple for the phone is subsidised by the income from an 18 month contract. If the buyer does anything different to that then Apple lose out.

 

[mudaudio]

Because, essentially, the price charged by Apple for the phone is subsidised by the income from an 18 month contract. If the buyer does anything different to that then Apple lose out.

True, but I signed up based on the terms as of 9 Nov. That was that I could buy a new iPhone (next gen etc), as long as I signed a new 18th month contract.

I would have thought twice about buying version 1 (due to some drawbacks of the device), if I'd known they would change this so readily.

Personally, I'm not complaining about the minimum term and appreciate that Apple and o2 need to make their money... but as I see it that is a 'signficant change to my disadvantage'.. i.e. it will cost me hundreds to get out of contract to buy an new iPhone, when before it would be free.

As a result, I hope that o2 reply to my email saying those that signed up when the old terms were in effect will be OK to upgrade without penalty. Anything other than that wouldn't be right....

In fact, I think o2 have been great so far. Let's hope this doesn't change my perspective!

 

[Archie-]

Because, essentially, the price charged by Apple for the phone is subsidised by the income from an 18 month contract. If the buyer does anything different to that then Apple lose out.

I thought the iPhone was unsubsidized. Are you telling me Apple is making a loss on a $600 phone?

 

[emotion]

True, but I signed up based on the terms as of 9 Nov. That was that I could buy a new iPhone (next gen etc), as long as I signed a new 18th month contract.

Yep, me too.

I agree with all your points too. I'd like to hear what O2 have to say on this.

I think I'll be most of the way through my 18 months when version 2 of the hardware surfaces. As much as I'd like 3G I don't think O2 are ready for that in their 3G network coverage at this moment. Who knows though, and I'd like the option to upgrade. Apple/O2 would be foolish to not cater for willing customers like us.

btw. I think v2 of the iPhone will be mostly a software upgrade (the hardware might get a storage bump to 16GB).

 

[emotion]

I thought the iPhone was unsubsidized. Are you telling me Apple is making a loss on a $600 phone?

No.

You are missing the point. Apple view a new sale without a 18 month (24 for ATT) contract a loss of earnings. To all intents and purposes this represents subsidisation.

If they didn't do it the way they do then they'd charge more. Simple as that.

It's amazing how few people understand this on here.

 

[Archie-]

No.

You are missing the point. Apple view a new sale without a 18 month (24 for ATT) contract a loss of earnings. To all intents and purposes this represents subsidisation.

If they didn't do it the way they do then they'd charge more. Simple as that.

It's amazing how few people understand this on here.

I think Apple's greed is well understood actually.

 

[Ramchi]

“I think Apple's greed is well understood actually.” Absolutely, Apple is selling the device to the respective owners by charging them whatever they want to. Apple shall not take control of the equipment that they have sold to the customer and dictate terms on how long they can use, how much they should get - other than providing normal support related services like releasing patches, fixing issues etc…
I can understand if the operators indulge in such practices to a limited extend since they may be subsidizing the mobile phones. In the iPhone context, I don’t see that possibility with the price tag of $600. It is just that Apple wanted to make MORE money by taking its customer to ransom.

 

[emotion]

I think Apple's greed is well understood actually.

Apple are a business. You don't like the terms on which they offer their products? Go buy from a competitor (Google's Android is only around the corner).

Apple have always commanded a premium for their products. Why should this be any different?

 

[t0mat0]

Hi,
I purchased my iPhone on the first day of sales in the UK. At the time I wondered if I would be able to buy the next iPhone when it came out, so I check the contract terms. Here's the relevant paragraph:

8.3 If this Agreement is ended during the Minimum Period, you may be required to pay us the monthly subscription charges up to the end of that Minimum Period. This does not apply if you end the Agreement for the reasons in paragraph 8.4 or if you purchase a new iPhone from us, but in this case you agree that a new Minimum Period will apply.
​

So, at that time, the answer was yes. It is now clear that o2 have removed that get out clause: http://www.o2.co.uk/termsconditions/iphone

The link:

8.3 If this Agreement is ended during the Minimum Period, you must pay us the monthly subscription charges up to the end of that Minimum Period. This does not apply if you end the Agreement for the reasons in paragraph 8.4.
8.4 You may end this Agreement by giving us written notice if:
1. we break this Agreement in any material way and we do not correct the situation within 7 days of receipt of your written request;
2. we go into liquidation or a Receiver is appointed over our assets; or
3. we increase charges for calls, messages or data that form part of your inclusive allowance or your Line Rental Charges, or change this Agreement to your significant disadvantage, in accordance with paragraph 9.2 of the General Terms, provided you give us a minimum of 30 days' written notice (and provided you notify us within one month of our telling you about the changes). This does not apply where the increase or change relates solely to Additional Services in which case you may cancel, or stop using, that Additional Service.​

Till it happens, we're being kept in the quiet. having seen the dust rise from being told a new model is coming, I would imagine they don't want to give any too many details regarding the new version, and what happens to current customers (their upgrade options).

 

[zetsurin]

No.

You are missing the point. Apple view a new sale without a 18 month (24 for ATT) contract a loss of earnings. To all intents and purposes this represents subsidisation.

If they didn't do it the way they do then they'd charge more. Simple as that.

It's amazing how few people understand this on here.

24 months?!?!?! That's diabolical. I thought 18 months with O2 here was bad enough. In fact, that's why I decided to hack my iPhone instead of going with O2 as I consider 18 months unacceptable for a device that required a £260 upfront payment. Honestly, 24 months is taking the piss and I can't comprehend how so many people would gleefully enter that arrangement. However after the sub-prime credit crisis in the US nothing would surprise me now.

Actually, Android should be the name applied to Apple apologists who try to defend even the absurd that comes out of Cupertino. And such people wonder why Apple owners/defenders are derided by so many.

 

[emotion]

Actually, Android should be the name applied to Apple apologists who try to defend even the absurd that comes out of Cupertino. And such people wonder why Apple owners/defenders are derided by so many.

Please don't assume I'm an apologist for Apple's business practices.

I make no comment on whether I think they are good or bad. They are what they are.

Personally I'd like to see OSX on all PCs (or at least on 'clones'), I'd like to see the iPhone unlocked and totally open to development, I'd like to see a bluetooth enabled iPod Touch with tethering allowed etc etc. All these are technically possible but due to business strategy won't happen.

As for Android. I think I might wait for the first implementations of this platform before I jump on another iPhone. Things are just getting interesting.

 

[mudaudio]

Update from o2

Here is the response from o2.

"Hello Chris

Thank you for emailing us about buying an iPhone.

If you buy a new iPhone you'll be charged for the iPhone as well as an early termination fee. The termination fee is the line rental till the end of your contract, the minimum period quoted is 18 months."​

So either o2 have shafted us, or the representatibe fielding my call was unable to give anything but a generic repsonse. Probably both.

Lovely. Upto now I liked o2. Now I fear they have very severaly done me over. I hope I'm wrong.

Chris

ps. If anyone else cares to contact o2 about this issue, maybe they'll have better luck than me.

 

[emotion]

Thanks for reporting back. Doesn't sound good but personally I'm not worrying until hardware comes out.

Apple would be fool to exclude existing customers to this extent. It's the early adopters that could drive sales of the new model too.

 

[arkitect]

Here is the response from o2.

"Hello Chris

Thank you for emailing us about buying an iPhone.

If you buy a new iPhone you'll be charged for the iPhone as well as an early termination fee. The termination fee is the line rental till the end of your contract, the minimum period quoted is 18 months."​

So either o2 have shafted us, or the representatibe fielding my call was unable to give anything but a generic repsonse. Probably both.

Lovely. Upto now I liked o2. Now I fear they have very severaly done me over. I hope I'm wrong.

Chris

ps. If anyone else cares to contact o2 about this issue, maybe they'll have better luck than me.

Hummmm. Nasty if that is how Apple/O2 plan to play the game…

But what happens if my 1st gen iPhone gets lost or stolen? What if I then replace it by buying a 2nd gen iPhone? Makes no sense.

Anyway. So far it is all conjecture as no 2nd gen iPhone has been released… But thanks for keeping a look out!

 

[emotion]

Hummmm. Nasty if that is how Apple/O2 plan to play the game…

But what happens if my 1st gen iPhone gets lost or stolen? What if I then replace it by buying a 2nd gen iPhone? Makes no sense.

It makes sense if you consider the iPhone to be subsidised

I know, I'll stop banging on about that now.

 

[mudaudio]

So far it is all conjecture as no 2nd gen iPhone has been released…

Absolutely, it is indeed conjecture... And as emotion says I'll worry about it when it happens

It's just funny that, instinctively, I printed a copy of the o2 T&Cs as soon as I bought the iPhone. I had a feeling they would change it... I confess, I'm paranoid!

The big shame is that I'm programmed this way, to be cynical and paranoid about big business, their ways of doing things, and their potential to shaft you if they can!! OK maybe o2 wont, but it's happened to me too many times to think otherwise!

We'll see eh ;-)

 

[arkitect]

The big shame is that I'm programmed this way, to be cynical and paranoid about big business, their ways of doing things, and their potential to shaft you if they can!!

Basic survival tactics. Keep them honed!

 

[emotion]

The big shame is that I'm programmed this way, to be cynical and paranoid about big business, their ways of doing things, and their potential to shaft you if they can!!

I think that's a healthy approach. If this does play out how it appears I'll be sending a few emails to Apple to point out how daft this approach would be.

 

[mudaudio]

Basic survival tactics. Keep them honed!

Indeed, well put!

Going off topic a little, but I do have a funny story to tell of victory of the little man!

I was at uni living with friends, and one sunday my flatmate comes home and says 'you smell something funny'? It turns out we have BOTH a gas leak and carbon monoxide leak... Suddenly, my day-long headace makes sense to me. Two days later our letting agent produces a freshly printed gas safety certificate, which we've never seen before, in highly dubious circumstances (not least that the engineer that came to fix the thing claimed it had not been looked at in 2 years).... Anyway. We decide this isn't on, and to cut a long story short- 1) we call the papers, 2) they print a story 3) about 50 other people call to complain about similar problems with the letting agent 4) they print another story 5) the letting agency cuts their advertising in the paper for 3 months 6) 6 months later the letting agent goes bust!!

Anyway... Sorry, major off-topic rant there. The point is, sometimes I get a bee in my bonnet, and I fear that this may become one of those times!

 

[DogcowUK]

I really don't think it matters what the T&C's say at the moment, I can't see Apple wanting to p*ss off all the current "official" iPhone owners by telling them they can't get iPhone 2.0 without paying ridiculous charges.

I'm sure as soon as iPhone 2.0 is announced they'll also announce an upgrade path for current owners.