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Odds for Apple dropping firewire?

N

ninecows

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Apr 9, 2012
770
1,263
Hi there

What do you think the odds are for apple dropping firewire on iMac 2012?

Right now I'm in the classic dilemma of waiting for the 2012 or buying the 2011. I have no problem waiting and will prefer to have the newest mac.

But... I have an old soundcard breakout box running on firewire and if they'll drop the firewire port the 2012 model would be useless for me :-(

If the new model is not what I need I could go for a 2011 refurb, but for some reason there are no refurb department of the official Danish apple store. Second; Danish consumer law is so much better than the the US one (and then there's the tax and all that if I import one), so I would prefer to buy it in Denmark.
 
Chances are still low, the Ethernet port is bigger and might be in more danger to be lost, though it is also used much more than the FW port.
When enough TB devices are available, Apple will ditch FW of course, though it might come sooner as one thinks.
 
simsaladimbamba said:
Chances are still low, the Ethernet port is bigger and might be in more danger to be lost, though it is also used much more than the FW port.
When enough TB devices are available, Apple will ditch FW of course, though it might come sooner as one thinks.
Click to expand...
For an iMac, the ethernet port has a very low chance of being dropped, some people don't use WiFi and of course for business use, some companies would not want to use WiFi.

ThunderBolt is rather expensive even compared to FireWire devices currently. A lot of people own a lot of FireWire devices, although hopefully most of them are not FireWire only. I'm thinking that USB 3.0 needs to be on Macs for a year or 2 before Apple could even think of starting to drop FireWire ports.
 
Bear said:
For an iMac, the ethernet port has a very low chance of being dropped, some people don't use WiFi and of course for business use, some companies would not want to use WiFi.

ThunderBolt is rather expensive even compared to FireWire devices currently. A lot of people own a lot of FireWire devices, although hopefully most of them are not FireWire only. I'm thinking that USB 3.0 needs to be on Macs for a year or 2 before Apple could even think of starting to drop FireWire ports.
Click to expand...

See, I didn't register the iMac part and was totally focused on MacBook Pros.
And yes, the chances of the iMac losing the Firewire port are even slimmer than the MacBook Pro losing it.
 
if thunderbold adapters prove to perform as reliable as onboard ports for things such as firewire audio interfaces... then yes, i could see it happening.
 
simsaladimbamba said:
Chances are still low, the Ethernet port is bigger and might be in more danger to be lost, though it is also used much more than the FW port.
Click to expand...

Not around here, the only thing that uses an Ethernet port is the Cable/DSL modems link to the WAP's/Routers


simsaladimbamba said:
When enough TB devices are available, Apple will ditch FW of course, though it might come sooner as one thinks.
Click to expand...

Maybe when high end cameras/devices put TB in place of FW, but should Apple drop FW they will upset a very large number of Apple users.

----------
product26 said:
if thunderbold adapters prove to perform as reliable as onboard ports for things such as firewire audio interfaces... then yes, i could see it happening.
Click to expand...


Yeah IF and I emphasize IF they can make a TB->FW adapter that functions 100% reliably.

FW is too broadly in use by too many users for Apple to just drop it for something else.
 
harcosparky said:
Not around here, the only thing that uses an Ethernet port is the Cable/DSL modems link to the WAP's/Routers




Maybe when high end cameras/devices put TB in place of FW, but should Apple drop FW they will upset a very large number of Apple users.

----------




Yeah IF and I emphasize IF they can make a TB->FW adapter that functions 100% reliably.

FW is too broadly in use by too many users for Apple to just drop it for something else.
Click to expand...

They already have these adaptors.
 
It was a broad question, any adaptor from a reputable peripheral manufacturer will do the trick.

Just something to show people that they are unreliable like you claim, I'm not on either side of the fence I just prefer facts instead of a internet forum person(s) making claims.
 
All Taken said:
It was a broad question, any adaptor from a reputable peripheral manufacturer will do the trick.

Just something to show people that they are unreliable like you claim, I'm not on either side of the fence I just prefer facts instead of a internet forum person(s) making claims.
Click to expand...


Well let's narrow the criteria.

I said that when they manufacture and sell reliable Thunderbolt To Firewire adapters Apple might migrate out the FW port.

You came back with the comment of .....

Originally Posted by All Taken
They already have these adaptors.
Click to expand...

Now I ask you to tell me which Thunderbolt To Firewire adapter you want test data for, you back up and say it was a broad statement.

Well I will be broad with my response and say .....

Give me the manufacturer and model of any Thunderbolt To Firewire and I will get test data on reliable functionality.

Basically what I am asking you here is this .....

What manufacturer is currently shipping a Thunderbolt To Firewire adapter?

You did say they already have them.




,
 
All Taken said:
http://www.sonnettech.com/product/echoexpresscard34thunderbolt.html

Now i've obliged please be so kind to give us all the facts as to why they're 'unreliable'

----------

You can buy it here: http://store1.sonnettech.com/product_info.php?products_id=392

Shows it has data rates as reliable as a PCI express interface. Pretty darn reliable.

My point was this: Why do people make claims like that without any facts behind them?
Click to expand...

Neither of the adapters you have provided links for are .....

Thunderbolt To Firewire


What I did say, and let me reiterate for you .....

when they manufacture and sell reliable Thunderbolt To Firewire adapters Apple might migrate out the FW port.
Click to expand...

All Taken said:
My point was this: Why do people make claims like that without any facts behind them?
Click to expand...

If anyone here is making claims without facts it would be you for claiming .....

Originally Posted by All Taken
They already have these adaptors.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
I'm not trying to he argumentative.

This thread is about the possible deletion of the FIREWIRE port.

In my effort to stay on topic I mentioned that if and when a reliable THUNDERBOLT TO FIREWIRE adapter is manufactured and sold it is possible to see the FIREWIRE port fade away.

You made the claim they already have those adapters, and I asked who made them.

You provided links to THUNDERBOLT TO EXPRESS CARD 34 adapters, and for the sake of this thread those are no relevant.


EDIT: Sonnet is said to be working on one, and claimed it would ship Q2/2012, here we are in Q2/2012 and they are not shipping yet.
 
harcosparky said:
If and when a reliable THUNDERBOLT TO FIREWIRE adapter is manufactured and sold it is possible to see the FIREWIRE port fade away.
Click to expand...

This is what I don't understand, appreciate it's about thunderbolt to firewire but why? If the firewire port is removed what good is that convertor? It needs to be developed the other way so that firewire peripherals are still able to be used via a thunderbolt port instead???
 
All Taken said:
If the firewire port is removed what good is that convertor? It needs to be developed the other way so that firewire peripherals are still able to be used via a thunderbolt port instead???
Click to expand...

What good is the TUNDERBOLT TO FIREWIRE adapter if the FIREWIRE port is removed?

A THUNDERBOLT TO FIREWIRE adapter will CONVERT the TUNDERBOLT PORT to a FIREWIRE PORT and allow FIREWIRE devices to be use.
 
harcosparky said:
What good is the TUNDERBOLT TO FIREWIRE adapter if the FIREWIRE port is removed?

A THUNDERBOLT TO FIREWIRE adapter will CONVERT the TUNDERBOLT PORT to a FIREWIRE PORT and allow FIREWIRE devices to be use.
Click to expand...

So, the device I linked to earlier that requires a ExpressCard 34 Firewire to function would allow firewire to connect to a thunderbolt port?

In effect you have one firewire device connected to the convertor connected to the thunderbolt port on a mac.
 
Hopefully any ThunderBolt to FireWire adapter would actually be a FireWire hub and not just a single port. Preferably with 4 FW800 ports.

And of course a port to daisy chain another TunderBolt device.
 
Last edited:
All Taken said:
So, the device I linked to earlier that requires a ExpressCard 34 Firewire to function would allow firewire to connect to a thunderbolt port?

In effect you have one firewire device connected to the convertor connected to the thunderbolt port on a mac.
Click to expand...

Express Card 34 is NOT .... I emphasize NOT ..... FIREWIRE

Let's be clear ....

What you linked to is allows an EXPRESS CARD 34 device to be used in the THUNDERBOLT PORT.

It has nothing to do with a FIREWIRE.

In order to use the device you linked to with a FIREWIRE device you would need TWO adapters.

Adapter 1: Thunderbolt to Express Card 34
Adapter 2: Express Card 34 to Firewire

So it would look like this ...
Computer--> Adapter 1--> Adapter2--> Firewire Device

For ideal functional reliability you would want one adapter to go from Thunderbolt to Firewire.

So it would look like this ...

Computer --> Thunderbolt to Firewire --> Firewire Device


Now on to the reliability issue, having to use two adapters only increases the chance of a reliability problem.

When USB came out the RS-232 ports on computers began to disappear. If a person had any RS-232 hardware they needed to use a USB TO RS-232 adapter, and yes there were functionality issues with those adapters.

Over the years I have worked with so many interfaces and adapters and I am very familiar with the functional reliability issues associated with crossover adapters. Not all devices play well with adapters.

I have worked with cameras RS-232 / Firewire , test equipment ( IEE 488/HPIB ), Transmitter/Receiver Controllers ( RS-232 ), Printers ( RS-232 / Parallel ), scanners ( RS-232 / IEE 488 / USB )

I will reiterate my original statement...

When a reliable Thunderbolt To Firewire adapter is manufactured and shipped, manufacturers can begin to migrate the Firewire port out of their designs.

----------
Bear said:
Hopefully any ThunderBolt to FireWire adapter would actually be a FireWire hub and not just a single port. Preferably with 4 FW800 ports..
Click to expand...

I agree, and I'd like to see one that works reliably .... SOON

Nothing sucks more than beginning a one hour import of video only to have an adapter hiccup midstream and you have to restart that process.
 
That adaptor does work, yes it requires a Expresscard to function with firewire but it operates at full PCI Express speed. No reliability problems.

Why are you saying it's unreliable? It's really not, it operates at the full Bus speed.

I'll try in simpler terms.

If you have a PCI express firewire card installed inside a PC do you have reliability issues with transfers? No. The reason is that the device interfaces directly with the PCI bus.

Same for SATA.
 
Last edited:
All Taken said:
That adaptor does work, yes it requires a Expresscard to function with firewire but it operates at full PCI Express speed. No reliability problems.

Why are you saying it's unreliable? It's really not, it operates at the full Bus speed.
Click to expand...

I never said that adapter was unreliable.

In fact I never spoke about an Express Card 34 adapter at all.

Why would I? My concern is the discussion about the FIREWIRE port.

You are repeatedly trying to cloud the discussion of the FIREWIRE port removal by injecting this Express Card 34 slot adapter into the conversation.

Since you do not want to discuss the topic at hand .... the potential removal of the Firewire Port from the iMac ...... I see no need in responding to your irrelevant posts.

Have a nice day! :D







.
 
I wouldn't be surprised to see the Firewire port dropped, maybe with a bundled Thunderbolt to Firewire adaptor for 1 generation.
 
Geee! Thanks for the replies (eventhough it went a bit off topic ;-)).

I'll take it easy and wait for the 2012 as it seems the odds for that one having FW are pretty good. I wish you could just write and ask Apple about these things. It shouldn't harm their business answering these kinds of questions as I would buy EITHER the 2011 OR the 2012 model and their profit should be more or less the same either way.
 
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