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Will macOS 10.14 support the cMP 5,1?


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    75

frou

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Mar 14, 2009
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My gut tells me that support is finished.

Though, since Apple more or less acknowledged to journalists recently that the nMP was a mistake, that implicitly admits that it's still valid to be running a cMP in production.

Your thoughts?
 

Synchro3

macrumors 68000
Jan 12, 2014
1,987
850
They wrote a new firmware for the cMP 5,1 (APFS support). I think the 5,1 will be supported at least up to macOS 10.15 (like the Mac Mini 2012).
 
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h9826790

macrumors P6
Apr 3, 2014
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I guess it may depends on the 2012 Mac Pro’s launch date.

e.g. 7 years support from it’s launch. Then, it may be softwarely supported until Jun 2019.

If this is correct, then 10.14 (expected arrive at late 2018) will be supported. But 10.15 (expected launch after Jun 2019) may not support the 5,1.

I believe Apple use the launch date to define the supportability, but not the last date they sold the computer. Otherwise, the Mac Pro 6,1 may be supported until 2025 (or even later), that doesn't make any sense to me.
 
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Naimfan

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Jan 15, 2003
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The Mac Pro 6,1 doesn't make any sense to me.

Fixed that for you (and everyone else).

Truly, on what planet did otherwise highly talented engineers think creating a very limited thermal box, with zero internal expandability, was a good idea for a flagship desktop?
 
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MisterAndrew

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Sep 15, 2015
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My guess is that the 2012 model will be supported, but not the 2010 model since it's now vintage/obsolete. The installer will probably check the serial number. The 2010 has an 11 digit serial number (with last 3 digits identifying it). The 2012 has a 12 digit serial number (with last 4 digits identifying it). You could change the serial number on a 2010, but it can't be random since it's checked with Apple for things like iCloud. It must be a valid non-duplicate serial that you own (e.g. cannibalized from a trashed 2012).
 
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nigelbb

macrumors 65816
Dec 22, 2012
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My guess is that the 2012 model will be supported, but not the 2010 model since it's now vintage/obsolete. The installer will probably check the serial number. The 2010 has an 11 digit serial number (with last 3 digits identifying it). The 2012 has a 12 digit serial number (with last 4 digits identifying it). You could change the serial number on a 2010, but it can't be random since it's checked with Apple for things like iCloud. It must be a valid non-duplicate serial that you own (e.g. cannibalized from a trashed 2012).
When has the installer ever checked the serial number? There isn't any problem with iCloud on a Hackintosh so why would there be on a 2010 Mac Pro?
 
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MisterAndrew

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When has the installer ever checked the serial number? There isn't any problem with iCloud on a Hackintosh so why would there be on a 2010 Mac Pro?

That's how it would be able to differentiate between a 2010 and a 2012. I don't have very much current knowledge about hackintoshing, but afaik a lot of custom settings need to be applied for iCloud services like iMessage to work properly and those settings could not be applied to a Mac Pro using hackintosh tools that are designed for a PC. Apple identifies your Mac by the serial number.
 

AlexMaximus

macrumors 65816
Aug 15, 2006
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That's how it would be able to differentiate between a 2010 and a 2012. I don't have very much current knowledge about hackintoshing, but afaik a lot of custom settings need to be applied for iCloud services like iMessage to work properly and those settings could not be applied to a Mac Pro using hackintosh tools that are designed for a PC. Apple identifies your Mac by the serial number.

WOW ! That is really new to me. Do you really think Apple is that picky to differentiate between 2010 and 2012 models? You might be right, but I really can't imagine that. If so, they will experience a big motivation for a work around, since the quantity of sold 2010 machines is significantly higher then the machines before and after that time frame. Does anyone have numbers how many machines have been sold of the model years 3.1 / 4.1 / 5.1
That would be for sure interesting! My gut feeling somehow tells me, the 2010 model year must be the largest of the classic ones.
 
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MisterAndrew

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WOW ! That is really new to me. Do you really think Apple is that picky to differentiate between 2010 and 2012 models? You might be right, but I really can't imagine that. If so, they will experience a big motivation for a work around, since the quantity of sold 2010 machines is significantly higher then the machines before and after that time frame. Does anyone have numbers how many machines have been sold of the model years 3.1 / 4.1 / 5.1
That would be for sure interesting! My gut feeling somehow tells me, the 2010 model year must be the largest of the classic ones.

Yes, because they already have. 2012 is supported and 2010 is vintage/obsolete. Even though the hardware is identical, Apple considers it a different model and it has a different support timeline. As we all know the 4,1 is basically a 5,1 also and 10.13 does not officially support it, just like how 10.14 most likely will not officially support the 2010 5,1.
 
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pl1984

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Oct 31, 2017
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Yes, because they already have. 2012 is supported and 2010 is vintage/obsolete. Even though the hardware is identical, Apple considers it a different model and it has a different support timeline. As we all know the 4,1 is basically a 5,1 also and 10.13 does not officially support it, just like how 10.14 most likely will not officially support the 2010 5,1.
One might argue the 4,1 and 5,1 are different because they at least contain different firmware whereas the 2010 and 2012 models have the same firmware.

However I'm not sure it matters as Apple clearly is not distinguishing between 4,1's which have been upgraded to 5,1 firmware and a genuine 5,1 when it comes to macOS Sierra / High Sierra. From what I've read Sierra / High Sierra installs /updates without issue on the former. Is there any reason to suspect Apple would change course with 10.14 and intentionally block an upgraded 4,1 model let alone a 2010 model?
 
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MisterAndrew

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One might argue the 4,1 and 5,1 are different because they at least contain different firmware whereas the 2010 and 2012 models have the same firmware.

However I'm not sure it matters as Apple clearly is not distinguishing between 4,1's which have been upgraded to 5,1 firmware and a genuine 5,1 when it comes to macOS Sierra / High Sierra. From what I've read Sierra / High Sierra installs /updates without issue on the former. Is there any reason to suspect Apple would change course with 10.14 and intentionally block an upgraded 4,1 model let alone a 2010 model?

That's good to know. Hopefully 10.14 won't differentiate between them then.
 

nigelbb

macrumors 65816
Dec 22, 2012
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That's how it would be able to differentiate between a 2010 and a 2012. I don't have very much current knowledge about hackintoshing, but afaik a lot of custom settings need to be applied for iCloud services like iMessage to work properly and those settings could not be applied to a Mac Pro using hackintosh tools that are designed for a PC. Apple identifies your Mac by the serial number.
Apple does not identify by the serial number for upgrades they look at the model number which is why a 4,1 that has been firmware upgraded to a 5,1 is able to run High Sierra.
 

MisterAndrew

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Sep 15, 2015
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Apple does not identify by the serial number for upgrades they look at the model number which is why a 4,1 that has been firmware upgraded to a 5,1 is able to run High Sierra.

That doesn't mean they won't use the serial number to differentiate between 5,1 models for 10.14. They have already decided to make the 2010 vintage/obsolete. There's nothing stopping them from enforcing that support decision for the future MacOS release.
 
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h9826790

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Apr 3, 2014
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That doesn't mean they won't use the serial number to differentiate between 5,1 models for 10.14. They have already decided to make the 2010 vintage/obsolete. There's nothing stopping them from enforcing that support decision for the future MacOS release.

Logically you are right. However, I just can't see why Apple suddenly so care about us, and willing to spend any resources to make their life harder.

The installation of MacOS is so different than iOS. The whole process can be done completely offline. And this is important, because some computer systems that required very high security may be completely isolated from the internet. So, require internet connection for MacOS installation seems not a good option.

If Apple want to implant the serial number check. The other way is to make the installer itself contain ALL the supported Mac's serial number, which is totally unnecessary. Also, even encrypted, still means ANYONE on the world can keep a copy of all those serial number (can they extract / decode it is another matter).

We know what Apple can do, but we also know the chance is extremely low. High Sierra also only officially support 2012 Mac Pro, but the fact is any Mac Pro with the 5,1 firmware can install it natively. I just can't see why Apple want to change this habit. At the end, cMP users are just a very very small group in the Mac eco system.
 

MisterAndrew

macrumors 68030
Sep 15, 2015
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Logically you are right. However, I just can't see why Apple suddenly so care about us, and willing to spend any resources to make their life harder.

The installation of MacOS is so different than iOS. The whole process can be done completely offline. And this is important, because some computer systems that required very high security may be completely isolated from the internet. So, require internet connection for MacOS installation seems not a good option.

If Apple want to implant the serial number check. The other way is to make the installer itself contain ALL the supported Mac's serial number, which is totally unnecessary. Also, even encrypted, still means ANYONE on the world can keep a copy of all those serial number (can they extract / decode it is another matter).

We know what Apple can do, but we also know the chance is extremely low. High Sierra also only officially support 2012 Mac Pro, but the fact is any Mac Pro with the 5,1 firmware can install it natively. I just can't see why Apple want to change this habit. At the end, cMP users are just a very very small group in the Mac eco system.

No, it wouldn't store all of the serial numbers. It would only check the model identifier portion of the serial number (last 3 digits for 2010, last 4 digits for 2012). That's how your Mac knows what to display in "About This Mac", etc. In Terminal you can find out the model by typing "
curl https://support-sp.apple.com/sp/product?cc=" followed by the identifier such as F4MH. 2010 model identifiers: EUH, EUE, EUF, EUG. 2012 model identifiers: F4MH, F4MG, F500, F4MF (Server), F4MJ (Server).
 

Demigod Mac

macrumors 6502a
Apr 25, 2008
838
288
Would be disappointed (but not surprised) if they ditched the 2010 but kept on with the 2012. No doubt there would be an easy way to hack it since the hardware is identical.

Might depend on if they have a MacPro7,1 ready to go in time for 10.14. Dropping support for the tower before a 7,1 is ready would be yet another incentive for creative pro holdouts to give up on Apple and switch to Windows.
 

AlexMaximus

macrumors 65816
Aug 15, 2006
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Would be disappointed (but not surprised) if they ditched the 2010 but kept on with the 2012. No doubt there would be an easy way to hack it since the hardware is identical.

Might depend on if they have a MacPro7,1 ready to go in time for 10.14. Dropping support for the tower before a 7,1 is ready would be yet another incentive for creative pro holdouts to give up on Apple and switch to Windows.

My gut feeling tells me, that the MP 7,1 will not even be ready for christmas. Don't forget, its start of new product segment, not just an a new facelift. We have the iMac Pro now in the old price-tag-slot. I think the new 7,1 will be very different. More different then most people think. RED price tag different.. ;) The enlightenment on the thermodynamic mistake done on the 6,1 came very late in the game at a time when all resources have been poured into the iMac, iMac Pro and the iPhoneX. However, Apple Politics will make sure to have enough "incentives" for a successful sales start of the 7,1 - and that means the majority of customer machines have to get degraded to the status vintage rather sooner then later. Greed runs the show, nothing else. To give those view remaining 2012 a couple more years is enough already for Apple political taste, so I think they will ax the 2010 software support soon or asap ..
 

AidenShaw

macrumors P6
Feb 8, 2003
18,667
4,676
The Peninsula
The enlightenment on the thermodynamic mistake done on the 6,1 came very late in the game
I think that the enlightenment on the "thermodynamic mistake" among the user base happened before MacWorld SF 2013 even closed.

The Amigos took a while longer to admit the mistake, and compounded it with the Imac Pro follow on mistake.
 
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frou

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Mar 14, 2009
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Might depend on if they have a MacPro7,1 ready to go in time for 10.14. Dropping support for the tower before a 7,1 is ready would be yet another incentive for creative pro holdouts to give up on Apple and switch to Windows.
For that reason, I'm selfishly hoping that the modular Mac Pro gets delayed until early 2019. I want the cMP's "forever-OS" to be one that supports Project Marzipan apps.
 
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rjtiedeman

macrumors 6502
Nov 29, 2010
337
66
Stamford, CT
I will be too old to use a computer. Time is a precious. There does not seem be be a urgent need to produce a new Mac for the 3% of users who will need one now. We may as well just let it go. In any case if you have to use a computer your probally one of the new working poor and will not be able to afford a modular MP. Big questions: 1. is it even a valid tax deduction anymore? 2.What Macs do russian oligarchs use to launder money?
 

frou

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Mar 14, 2009
1,337
1,874
I will be too old to use a computer. Time is a precious. There does not seem be be a urgent need to produce a new Mac for the 3% of users who will need one now. We may as well just let it go. In any case if you have to use a computer your probally one of the new working poor and will not be able to afford a modular MP. Big questions: 1. is it even a valid tax deduction anymore? 2.What Macs do russian oligarchs use to launder money?
You taken a hit from the modular glassware?
 
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flehman

macrumors 6502
Feb 21, 2015
352
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2 factors could lead to the 5,1s enjoying support under 10.14.

1) MP 7,1 timing. If the 7,1 isn’t ready in 2018, Apple might preserve the status quo for another year.

2) Apple’s stated intent to shelve new features and instead focus on stability/security in its new OSes this year could preserve the current universe of supported hardware.
 

frou

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Mar 14, 2009
1,337
1,874
2 factors could lead to the 5,1s enjoying support under 10.14.

1) MP 7,1 timing. If the 7,1 isn’t ready in 2018, Apple might preserve the status quo for another year.

2) Apple’s stated intent to shelve new features and instead focus on stability/security in its new OSes this year could preserve the current universe of supported hardware.

8 ball - signs point to yes.jpg


https://www.macrumors.com/2018/04/05/apples-revamped-mac-pro-to-launch-in-2019/

https://www.macrumors.com/2018/01/30/apple-focus-on-software-quality-extends-to-mac/
 
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