MP 6,1 Official macOS Support for the 6,1 ends with Monterey

[MisterAndrew]

Looks like

I'm confused, there are claims Ventura boots fine on a cMP 5,1 while the world fails on [EB|#LOG:EXITBS:START].

[macOS Ventura 13.0] Booting issues · Issue #2038 · acidanthera/bugtracker

Hi there, I'm opening this issue to keep track of the bugs and future development of OpenCore as well as the kexts, in terms of macOS Ventura 13.0 support. I'm not there to hurry the devs up keep t...

github.com

That's awesome if that's true. I was just quoting what people have listed on the forum here. I'm not a code person or hacker. I guess I won't be able to run it on the 6,1 anyways since it has AppleCare+ and Apple can see what version of macOS it's running.

 

[Dayo]

I won't be able to run it on the 6,1.

Does the trashcan only allow one OS version at a time? That is, does it have a single disk with no options for multi booting or something like that? Perhaps it could still be run from an external disk even if so.

 

[MisterAndrew]

Does the trashcan only allow one OS version at a time? That is, does it have a single disk with no options for multi booting or something like that? Perhaps it could still be run from an external disk even if so.

Another macOS seems to run fine on an a separate APFS partition.

 

[fiatlux]

We’re still 3-4 months away from the actual release of Ventura, so the MP6,1 will have been supported by current OS releases for 3 years after end of sale, or 9 years after release. And we likely get two more years of security fixes for Big Sur Monterey (I got confused, maybe yearly updates are too much indeed 😉).

That’s not too bad in my books and if you depend on key legacy apps, you’ll often stick to an older OS release anyway.

The grass is not necessarily greener on the other side: Windows 11, which was released in October 2021, theoretically requires a much more recent 8th generation Coffee Lake CPU.

The biggest issues I have with the MP6,1 are more hardware-related: fragile memory slot pins, rapidly obsolete Thunderbolt 2 (Thunderbolt 3 arrived just 2 years after), no GPU upgrade path and limited number of PCIe lines going to the SSD.

The same machine with Thunderbolt 3, more PCIe 3.0 lines for the GPU and SSD, and perhaps MXM GPU slots for (limited) GPU upgrade options would have been so much better. For those that require much more GPU power nothing beats a MP7,1 of course, but for others the trashcan design could have delivered much more.

Time to move on and that gap is now filled by the much more efficient and effective Mac Studio. Moving from my MP6,1 to a Studio Max was such a relief!

Still curious to see if OC will make Ventura run smoothly on the MP6,1. I will probably keep mine in the family and it will remain handy for the odd Windows app I need to run under VMware Fusion.

 

[avro707]

Does the trashcan only allow one OS version at a time? That is, does it have a single disk with no options for multi booting or something like that? Perhaps it could still be run from an external disk even if so.

Some people have the add on that allows it to take another two drives (nvme). But it isn’t common.

For M.2 PCIe SSD modules (Mac Pro (Late 2013) cylinder) |

www.amfeltec.com

I have made the choice to go 7,1 - a fairly high spec machine at a large cost. But the 6,1 works nicely in Monterey so far - as it should, mine is the maximum spec.

I won’t use open core on the 6,1, that isn’t always used by me. I don’t want to be doing extra IT support stuff.

 

[startergo]

Still curious to see if OC will make Ventura run smoothly on the MP6,1

Ivy bridge processors do not support AVX-2 instruction set.

Not officially supported in macOS Ventura, but currently not or only partly capable of running it

• Machines without AVX2 support will no longer boot
  • If you're unsure whether or not your Mac supports AVX2, type in this command into Terminal sysctl -a | grep machdep.cpu.leaf7_features | grep AVX2. Getting AVX2 printed out it means your system has a (decent) chance to run Ventura in future.
• Devices with Ivy Bridge CPUs and older, basically all Macs older than Late 2013 do not support AVX2 natively.
• Support of these systems would require an opcode emulator to work around it, a complex piece of software.
• GPU drivers from before Kaby Lake (Intel) or Polaris (AMD) are removed
• Even if you can boot, you might not have GPU acceleration

Developers will investigate readding support. No guarantees

By the way as far as windows 11 is concerned I am running it on my Ivy Bridge CPU PC even in Legacy boot mode and it runs fine despite the processor incompatibility.

 

[0xCUBE]

Ivy bridge processors do not support AVX-2 instruction set.


By the way as far as windows 11 is concerned I am running it on my Ivy Bridge CPU PC even in Legacy boot mode and it runs fine despite the processor incompatibility.

this is very different from the windows incompatibilities. macOS is also a lot more locked-down and harder to patch on the kernel level. Just because you were able to install windows 11 doesn't mean that the same will be true for Ventura.

 

[ian87w]

It's been obvious that Apple wants to ditch Intel ASAP. Expect the next few macOS releases to be massacres as well until it's Apple Silicon only.

Yup. Ventura already at 2017/2018 Macs. That's just 2 years from the introduction of the M1 Macs. Apple can simply drop 2017-2019 consumer macs by next year, leaving maybe just the 2019 cheese grater Mac pro and 2020 intel macs as the last remainder intel macs being supported. And by 2024, they get cut altogether.

 

[startergo]

Just because you were able to install windows 11 doesn't mean that the same will be true for Ventura.

I did not claim that.

 

[Hunter5117]

We’re still 3-4 months away from the actual release of Ventura, so the MP6,1 will have been supported by current OS releases for 3 years after end of sale, or 9 years after release.

Not in all cases. I have probably a unique situation. I bought my MP 6,1 in 2020 and it is still covered by AppleCare until July 2023. If Apple, as they have in the past, decides to issue apps with Ventura that are not compatible with older versions aka Monterey on my 6,1, is that an AppleCare support concern. I use iCloud syncing extensively every day. I spoke to an Apple rep about that question and he didn't have an answer. Nothing to do but wait and see in the fall.

 

[SpotOnT]

Not in all cases. I have probably a unique situation. I bought my MP 6,1 in 2020 and it is still covered by AppleCare until July 2023. If Apple, as they have in the past, decides to issue apps with Ventura that are not compatible with older versions aka Monterey on my 6,1, is that an AppleCare support concern. I use iCloud syncing extensively every day. I spoke to an Apple rep about that question and he didn't have an answer. Nothing to do but wait and see in the fall.

Where did you purchase your Mac Pro in 2020?

I think your iCloud syncing will continue to work fine across all devices for a while yet. I have my Mac Pro running Sierra and most ecosystem based functionality still works fine with that. Even updates to Final Cut, Pages, etc. tend support the last few versions of macOS.

 

[Hunter5117]

Where did you purchase your Mac Pro in 2020?

I think your iCloud syncing will continue to work fine across all devices for a while yet. I have my Mac Pro running Sierra and most ecosystem based functionality still works fine with that. Even updates to Final Cut, Pages, etc. tend support the last few versions of macOS.

I am more concerned if they do something like they did with Notes a few versions back. Only the newest version supports tagging which I use a lot for keeping my data sorted and searchable. However, those only work with I think Catalina or maybe Big Sur and newer. If I was not paying for support then I would not complain, but if something like this comes up then I will definitely get back with them.

PS I bought mine at Micro Center, they found one in their stock room almost a year after they thought they sold the last one.

 

[huge_apple_fangirl]

Yup. Ventura already at 2017/2018 Macs. That's just 2 years from the introduction of the M1 Macs. Apple can simply drop 2017-2019 consumer macs by next year, leaving maybe just the 2019 cheese grater Mac pro and 2020 intel macs as the last remainder intel macs being supported. And by 2024, they get cut altogether.

They're going even faster than I expected. I mean, they were selling the ancient Mac Mini until like 2018- thought they'd be forced to give longer support. Either way it's clear that cutoff dates are being influenced more by ditching Intel than actual specs.

 

[prefuse07]

for anyone wondering -- @Jazzzny has managed to get Ventura running on a cMP, with OCLP. (though "not very stable" as he put it) although Ventura IS currently in Beta 1 stage, so we have that.

 

[th0masp]

I am more concerned if they do something like they did with Notes a few versions back. Only the newest version supports tagging which I use a lot for keeping my data sorted and searchable. However, those only work with I think Catalina or maybe Big Sur and newer. If I was not paying for support then I would not complain, but if something like this comes up then I will definitely get back with them.

PS I bought mine at Micro Center, they found one in their stock room almost a year after they thought they sold the last one.

I've never had AppleCare but does it really entitle you to more than a 'supported' version of the base OS you run on?

Somehow hard to imagine they'd have to guarantee that each and every tool that ships in newer versions of their OS also has to 100% work on an older OS just because the system its installed on is still under warranty and can't be upgraded.

Especially when your machine is such a strange case of a computer they somehow kept selling way past its due date.
I mean at least since the Imac Pro they have done their best to hide it on their website, never mention its existence unless forced at gunpoint and generally discourage you from buying it, didn't they? 😉

 

[Dayo]

Some people have the add on that allows it to take another two drives (nvme). But it isn’t common.

Thanks.

Abandoning attempt at supporting the Trashcan as it appears to be even more limited than I thought.

 

[Hunter5117]

I've never had AppleCare but does it really entitle you to more than a 'supported' version of the base OS you run on?

I guess it is like buying a car with an extended warranty, then the manufacturer stops making parts for it. Manufacturer provided software is basically the "parts" that keep the computer working in sync with the rest of their system. If my example should happen, can they just say "sorry your warrantee isn't valid because we decided to stop making those parts?"

 

[th0masp]

I guess it is like buying a car with an extended warranty, then the manufacturer stops making parts for it. Manufacturer provided software is basically the "parts" that keep the computer working in sync with the rest of their system. If my example should happen, can they just say "sorry your warrantee isn't valid because we decided to stop making those parts?"

My expectation would be that you are only covered as far as keeping your machine operational (see driver certificate error for Nvidia in the other thread as an example).

But, good question I suppose.

 

[caner0]

I am also a proud owner of Mac Pro 2013, and I purchased it 4 years ago second-hand, still using it on my daily routine and it is turned on 24-7 running server apps. The biggest problem with these news is, this machine still performs pretty well. Unless you are going to spend a fortune for M1 Max and Ultra, a 2013 Mac Pro with 12 core Xeon has very similar performance compared with regular M1, and when compared with M1 Pro, it is just %25-30 slower in Multi Core.

So the question is, am I going to replace my perfectly running Mac Pro with a newer M1 Pro system by paying additional around 3500-4000 USD, and it is not even going to provide me the same RAM and expansion capabilities as Mac Pro? For me, it does not make sense, and I also believe that it is still way to early to replace this machine unless it breaks or not. I am not convinced to buy a new computer. I know that it is almost 10 years old, but it is still performing way too good for a 10 year old computer.

Only problem is, when there is a hardware problem, I am sure that I am screwed as it would be very, very expensive to get this GPU from somewhere. That's it.

 

[MisterAndrew]

Only problem is, when there is a hardware problem, I am sure that I am screwed as it would be very, very expensive to get this GPU from somewhere. That's it.

That's my concern. Since Apple is abandoning the system parts & repair won't be available from Apple in the near future. So if it has a problem there is no way to fix it.

Another way to look at the software support is that the 5,1 got 5 additional releases after it was discontinued (2014-2018), or more if it was a 2009 or 2010 model. The 6,1 got 2 (2020-2021).

 

[avro707]

I am also a proud owner of Mac Pro 2013, and I purchased it 4 years ago second-hand, still using it on my daily routine and it is turned on 24-7 running server apps. The biggest problem with these news is, this machine still performs pretty well. Unless you are going to spend a fortune for M1 Max and Ultra, a 2013 Mac Pro with 12 core Xeon has very similar performance compared with regular M1, and when compared with M1 Pro, it is just %25-30 slower in Multi Core.

So the question is, am I going to replace my perfectly running Mac Pro with a newer M1 Pro system by paying additional around 3500-4000 USD, and it is not even going to provide me the same RAM and expansion capabilities as Mac Pro? For me, it does not make sense, and I also believe that it is still way to early to replace this machine unless it breaks or not. I am not convinced to buy a new computer. I know that it is almost 10 years old, but it is still performing way too good for a 10 year old computer.

Only problem is, when there is a hardware problem, I am sure that I am screwed as it would be very, very expensive to get this GPU from somewhere. That's it.

I have the same worry as you with the 6,1.

Mine is very, very nice and really fast - but the GPU and other parts are so specialised to just that machine. I pulled mine apart and upgraded the CPU, it is impressive but frightening because it is so bespoke.

But it is the top spec and really is a lovely thing. The Studio was never an option for me.

So with my main 5,1 passing away, I had to order a 7,1 last weekend for AUD$15,000+, now I’m waiting for Apple to build and ship it.

How long do they take to “process” these orders? Does it really take 10 days to process it? I need that computer to arrive soon.

 

[flyingmanatee]

The die-off really seems to be centered around T2 and above. I have a feeling the next OS release or two probably will hover here as Apple seems whole hog on the T2 required features like PassKey.

 

[MisterAndrew]

The die-off really seems to be centered around T2 and above. I have a feeling the next OS release or two probably will hover here as Apple seems whole hog on the T2 required features like PassKey.

I was thinking that too, but it looks like the 2017 Macs don’t have that.

 

[tsialex]

I was thinking that too, but it looks like the 2017 Macs don’t have that.

It's not T-2 the cut-out. While back in 2017 the iMac Pro was the first Mac with T2, normal iMacs don't have it until the last Intel one, back in 2020.

 

[grouch]

Some people have the add on that allows it to take another two drives (nvme). But it isn’t common.

For M.2 PCIe SSD modules (Mac Pro (Late 2013) cylinder) |

www.amfeltec.com

I have made the choice to go 7,1 - a fairly high spec machine at a large cost. But the 6,1 works nicely in Monterey so far - as it should, mine is the maximum spec.

I won’t use open core on the 6,1, that isn’t always used by me. I don’t want to be doing extra IT support stuff.

I was recently quoted $487 for an AngelShark board, it isn't a particularly economical mod.