Ok guys. Let's do a little mental experiment

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by Ghost31, Oct 30, 2016.

  1. Ghost31 macrumors 68000

    Ghost31

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2015
    #1
    I wanted to take a break from thinking SO negatively since its been a total bummer around here since the keynote.

    So you are time traveled 3 years into the future. USB C is ubiquitous. The macbook pro prices have FINALLY come back down. The pricing tier is now:
    • Macbook without touchbar $1099
    • Macbook 13 WITH touchbar $1299
    • Macbook 15 $2099
    We have seen every important app for mac os utilize the touchbar in a useful way. There is also a matte black version of the macbooks. The iphone is now sold with a usb cable that has USB c on the other end. Wireless is ubiquitous in a big way

    How do we feel? Do we look back on today and still feel pissed about what apple pulled on us? Do we move on and be happy with the current setup? Do we decide either way, Apple is still fallen behind and lacks innovation?

    Personally...i just dont know how i feel. I might need more time to think this thought experiment through. On one hand, the new macbooks look like fine hardware. On another...Apple is getting ridiculously greedy and even if the prices come back down eventually, do i really wanna reward a company that puts profit over EVERYTHING like this? I dont know. Product good. Apple....meh.
     
  2. argentum47 macrumors regular

    argentum47

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2014
    #2
    Well, yeah. The laptop hardware is solid (despite the connectivity controversies at the moment).

    The only problem is that the Apple tax got even worse than before (bumped +$300), but we know they tend to start high on newly designed lines and slowly lower the prices. After the price cut, they will be very solid laptops for the price, I think. Similar to how we loved the rMBPs in 2014~2015.
     
  3. leman macrumors G3

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2008
    #3
    I really don't understand why so many people say that Apple puts profit over everything else. Ok, to put it differently, Apple does put profit over everything else, its well known and has always been like that. But what you get here is not some sort of bland computer who's only job is to sell enough units (I'm looking at you Dell XPS 13"). They give you a visionary machine that packs insane performance into a very compact chasis, without sacrificing battery. They make a number of unpopular moves (like going next-gen connectivity), perfectly knowing that it would piss off some users. They also attempt to add a new element of man-machine interaction. Sure, its expensive. But honestly, I would be very surprised if Apple earns more on these computers than on any Mac before that.

    Do you remember first unibody models? Where a 15" MBP with mediocre specs started at $1999, an insane money for those times? That was dropped $300 next year. This launch pricing follows exactly the same pattern. Cutting edge tech costs money, because its more difficult to make. Look at the MS surface with performance base — same prices.
     
  4. cyb3rdud3 macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    Location:
    UK
    #4
    I have no issues with the spec at all, to me it is just a mental barrier to get over the 2K mark when in my mind I thought I could stay under it. In reality I use mine professionally and the difference is only a couple of hours of work, but for some reason it is a real mental barrier to me.

    I'm sure that once I see them, and they become general available and I can clear make up my mind between the 13 and 15 all issues regarding pricing will be forgotten.
     
  5. leman macrumors G3

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2008
    #5
    Its a choice of being an really adopter or not: early adopters always pay more and get an product with more potential problems, but they also help to drive the industry forward. I've always been an easy adopter, but that my general dumbness :)

    For most 'normal' users out there, the reasonable thing is to wait. The prices will doubtless go down over time.
     
  6. haydn! macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Location:
    UK
    #6
    This is exactly where I'm at. Six months ago, I was planning to buy whatever model was going to replace the £1999 - going off Apple's past trend of maintaining price points. Then in September when the iPhones launched with higher prices because of currency fluctuations, I expected an increase so changed my plan to buy the £1599 model with a few upgrades because > £2k just seems too much.

    Then. The entry model starts at £2349, £750 more than where I expected to be and £349 above where I wanted to be. Compared to previous Window machines I've owned, a MacBook does give better long term value for money - it's last twice as long as any Windows machine. That will be still be the case with increased prices... so I'm edging towards a new entry level 15" still. Just might need to be post Christmas now rather than today.
     
  7. boilingDream macrumors newbie

    boilingDream

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2016
    #7
    To me the one big problem is the keyboard. Tried the Macbook and couldn't live with it. I will of course try the keyboard on the new machines, but I suspect I will not like it. In fact I do not find the keyboard on the 2015 Air I am writing this on very pleasant, due to its short key travel.

    In three years all laptops from Apple will presumably have the new flat keyboard. I use my laptops mainly for writing, so by then I will probably have switched to a Dell or a Lenovo laptop.
     
  8. David58117 macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2013
    #8
    My 3 year prediction:

    Same processor, slightly thinner MacBooks, and we all become sensitized to the new price scheme.
     
  9. urkel macrumors 68030

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2008
    #9
    How about this 3yr scenario...

    2016: Apple gets rid of Tim Cook and Jony Ive. Cook makes Pepsi profitable and Jony Ive wears tight suits to fashion shows.

    2017: Apple makes a thicker MacBook Pro that once again focuses on Pro needs (Multi bay Storage options. Higher Max Ram. Ports that people use. Etc. Heck, I'll even say a tilting iMac touchscreen.) Apple remains profitable but now has a product line that covers both Pro and Consumer market.

    2018: Mac Pro gets an update.
     
  10. wegster, Oct 30, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2016

    wegster macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2006
    #10
    I would hope in 3 years the iPhone or iWatch w/holo keys and 6G are happily wirelessly charging and only using a cable as a backup, but.. ;)

    It's not solely about the pricing. The touchbar will likely be useful for those whose primary interface is the MBP keyboard, but what of those using iMacs, or Mac Pros, or external keyboards? Ok, perhaps Apple will make an external KB. I use a split keyboard with mechanical switches - pretty sure I still have near zero benefit from the touchpad, although they can and should bake TouchID/ApplePay into the trackpad, then perhaps I'd imprint my forefinger to reach up only slightly.

    Zero concerns on USB-C, it's a temporary annoyance that leads us to good things in a majority of cases, although there is definite annoyance for casual to 'prosumer' photographers who don't upgrade their DSLR bodies on a yearly basis and actually still have SD cards. Meanwhile, single cord (oh, how I'd love it to be an Apple magsafe/USB-C variant...) for power and 'everything else' for most cases is quite nice, perhaps TB4 so able to drive a pair of 5K+ from a single connection + bandwidth to spare.

    More importantly will remain - what are we getting for the $?
    If your above is simply the MacBook lineup, and not the MacBook Pro lineup, well, I'm indifferent other than the Pro's would be even more. If implying it's the MBP lineup, it's still about performance or perceived value (does it increase my productivity in some way or is simply too cool to not have?) vs competition and pricing.

    Does the Surface line evolve to truly ditch my tablet while Apple is pretending that no one ever has a used to do pencil-driven markups in meetings or with customers, and that everyone should carry around both a tablet and a laptop, or do they evolve, and let me buy an iPad Pro 3 to replace the OEM magnetic display on the MBP with so it's my choice?

    Does Apple make useful innovation, that I can use, while remaining performance-relevant, or are they polishing last years CPU/GPUs in a pricy shell? How high is the Apple Tax for a 2 or 4TB SSD if they insist on them being non-user-replaceable?

    The pricing above is fine, assuming a min of 16GB with 32GB and possibly 64GB options (you did say 3 years from now), with a base 512GB SSD or larger by that time, and options for 2 or 4TB.

    I'm also hoping to see quad core in the current 13" footprint by then, and 6 cores should be in the 15, if not 8. We'll see (including what Intel's roadmap vs reality does.. ;) ). Was really expecting to see the 13" become a 12" but same screen width (less bezel) and the 15" to become a 14"...then maybe a 16" for former 17" lovers.
     
  11. ugru macrumors 6502

    ugru

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    Sep 8, 2002
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    Caput Mundi
    #11
    Fixed that for you
     
  12. Voley macrumors regular

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    Oct 24, 2013
    #12

    Thank god you are not anywhere close to apple management
     
  13. zhenya macrumors 603

    zhenya

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2005
    #13
    Interesting that this is pretty much what Dell, Lenovo, HP, etc. have been doing forever and only been moderately successful doing it. Apple continues to do exactly what they have done in the past - a method that has made them the most valuable company in the world. But to be clear, you want them to act more like Dell?
     
  14. Savor Suspended

    Savor

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2010
    #14
    I just buy whatever product suits my needs the best and don't really give a crap about my feelings for the company that brands it.
     
  15. satchmo macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2008
    Location:
    Canada
    #15
    I understand some the ports (mostly the SD for photographers) and keyboard issues. And the Touch Bar is likely here to stay...it remains to be seen how useful this will become.

    Personally for me, it's more about the cost. I can understand a small bump like $100. But we're talking $350-$1000 increase.

    The employee at my local Apple Store thought it was a big price jump and said it might be tough sell, even during the holidays.
     
  16. Queen6, Oct 30, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2016

    Queen6 macrumors 603

    Queen6

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2008
    Location:
    Putting out the fire with gasoline...
    #16
    To be fair the new MBP is likely to be a very good notebook, what is driving the anger is; Apple increasing emphasis on form over function on a "Pro" notebook and pricing, MBP could have been more, it`s not :oops:

    3 Years from now I don't foresee too much in the way of change, USB C will have a higher rate of adoption, fair chance Apple will "find" the power budget for 32Gb RAM, 460 or higher will be default dGPU with associated throttling as the limited thermal envelope is consumed ;) Pricing will remain, Apple & MS is pushing up their respective PC market. An aspect not often touched on is design, at this level it costs, and of course we may get Rose Gold if Tim blesses us :p

    More seriously the 12" rMB pricing has not dropped, so I feel this is a strong indicator of Apple`s intention. Apple will remain to produce the Mac, look to increase margin on a smaller number of units produce by upping the Mac`s status and producing extremely elegant hardware, however at the cost of some functionality & performance. Target audience is another aspect, the user the MBP is aimed at pricing not an issue, as either they have significant expendable income or can monetise the hardware cost or both. I know that sucks for many as they have literally been priced out of the MBP especially the 15", however Apple is not looking to sell as many units a possible, Apple is looking to extract the most margin off the line across a minimum of a 4 year period, and transition the Mac to another level...
     
  17. idunn, Oct 30, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2016

    idunn macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2008
    #17
    My crystal ball says Apple will be in turmoil in three years. Stock down, some plush retirements having been effected, and what worries them the most is the polished BS no longer having the same effect. Apple is publicly viewed as a company in an uncertain transition; with widespread opinion that the move into spaceship headquarters marked the onset of same.

    Of course I could be wrong about all this. But if not then most of it principally due the new realities in the smart phone market, where they are just another participant, rather than innovator and leader.

    The 2016 MacBook Pro will likely prove an afterthought, something most now view as largely regrettable and to be moved past. Whether it sees a significant re-design before four years is a good question. My feeling is it should be right now, today. But Apple may in its persistence still be trying to convince customers that it is what they should aspire to—and buy.

    Three years may be a bit soon, as present management seems dead set on dragging its customers into a dystopian 21st century future of mindless consumption. But perhaps not, as the market can be relentless. Most may not at least initially care that they are neutering towards eventual death the Macintosh. If one could argue that agenda has already born bad fruit, the results of which yet to be fully realized. It shows even now in a less than laser focus on their present flagship, the iOS lineup.

    The iPad is witnessing declining sales. The iPhone is floundering a bit, even with Samsung presently up in flames.

    My understanding that Tim Cook's core expertise is in logistics. Perversely he seems determined to prove how convoluted he can make their lineup—yet in the simple logistics of delivering product on time has failed.

    If their present profit centers dive, without a loyal core following for an excellent Macintosh line what have they got, emojis?
     
  18. baypharm, Oct 30, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2016

    baypharm macrumors 65816

    baypharm

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2007
    #18
    I will only feel good about Apple MBP's when they can be user upgradable again: ability to change out hard drive, ram, battery, etc. Apple has made their fortune from the iPhone and yet you cannot connect the two without first buying yet another cable.
     
  19. wegster macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2006
    #19
    QFT.

    If we do see a Rose Gold MBP, we'll know for sure the MB Air team has taken over the Pro line (already seeming likely).
     
  20. ssong macrumors 6502a

    ssong

    Joined:
    May 3, 2015
    Location:
    London, UK
    #20
    WROOONG I agree with everything but 'Jony Ive wears tight suits to fashion shows'. Laid off from Apple Jony Ive will go crazy with food and roll into fashion shows in a specially designed roller.
     
  21. Queen6, Oct 30, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2016

    Queen6 macrumors 603

    Queen6

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2008
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    Putting out the fire with gasoline...
    #21
    The "anger" is strong with this one :p Don't worry I am right behind you as it`s not entirely the way I hoped the Mac develop, equally it`s a one horse show, assuming you want stay with OS X. Me I am 50/50 planning for the worst, hoping for the best.

    Apple has to do something with the Mac, as the Windows OEM`s are snapping at the heels with well designed hardware that has far greater usability with an OS that is really starting to shape up on the productivity side, sadly we got macOS & emoji`s and lets not forget Siri; the fountain of all knowledge o_O

    Never-mind worse happens at sea....pours more whisky, tells Cortana to SFU, being only mildly smarter than Siri, considers life with the new MBP and "the hell of a thousand dongles" pours more whiskey :p

    Q-6
    --- Post Merged, Oct 30, 2016 ---
    New Apple Rose Gold, is code for Pink, new Apple more is less, and you better believe it; more of your money, less of everything else, Apple will be charging for the plastic bag & the box next o_O

    I want to like the 2016 MBP I really do, after waiting years & years for a meaningful update to the 15" MBP. Reality this is as good as it gets, before 2020 and Apple depreciates more features they "think" we don't need, solely to ensure their revenue & absurd margins, and feed Jony`s "thinner"habit o_O

    Methinks better stick to the whisky, Apple`s just give me indigestion these days :p whiskey finished, Siri still dumb as a post...

    Q-6
     
  22. haydn! macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Location:
    UK
    #22
    If the tide turns on Apple over this, they'll fix it pretty quickly with a price drop and speed bump at WWDC. Maybe it's worth holding out another 8 months if you're not happy.
     
  23. tubeexperience macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2016
    #23
    Time travel 3 years into the future.

    The base 12" MacBook is $1500, the base 13" MacBook Pro is $2000, and the base 15" MacBook Pro is $3000.

    Sale of Macs fell off a cliff.

    Tim Cook declares it the end of an era and Apple officially discontinues the Mac.
     
  24. Queen6, Oct 30, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2016

    Queen6 macrumors 603

    Queen6

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    Putting out the fire with gasoline...
    #24
    Correction; the Mac officially discontinues Tim Cook :) crowd goes wild :p

    Q-6
     
  25. kazmac macrumors 603

    kazmac

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    Location:
    On the sliver scream
    #25
    Even at the OP's price points I wouldn't budge. I may want simple, but not at the cost of practicality (ports, mag safe, rock solid OS), not to mention longevity. *Shrugs*
    --- Post Merged, Oct 30, 2016 ---
    Now you're talking. ;)

    If Cook, Cue, Ive and Schiller leave I'd happily stick around.
     

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