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That an ellegant All-in-one would have worse thermals than a desktop tower PC? Yeah, it is obvious, I guess.

Oh, not at all! I was saying it's obvious that a case and cooling design from 2012 for 2012 components including a 1440p screen wouldn't be sufficient for their current tech and 5k screen.
 
Oh, not at all! I was saying it's obvious that a case and cooling design from 2012 for 2012 components including a 1440p screen wouldn't be sufficient for their current tech and 5k screen.

And you base that on.... what exactly? Because my 5K iMac works perfectly when I use Photoshop or Zbrush or 3ds Max in bootcamp. I think the cooling is great, because my 2011 iMac would get quite loud while working in Zbrush, and my 5K stays silent.
 
And you base that on.... what exactly? Because my 5K iMac works perfectly when I use Photoshop or Zbrush or 3ds Max in bootcamp. I think the cooling is great, because my 2011 iMac would get quite loud while working in Zbrush, and my 5K stays silent.

I'm basing the design year on a calendar and the cooling on not your particular usage.
 
no reason to upgrade if you already have last generation 5k imac !
the cpu is the same..the gpu the same
there is a difference only if your last generation has i5 and you want i7, and if you have M290 and you want M395x
 
In other words: gaming.

Sigh.

You don't need to type out your physical actions, I can tell when someone is holding themselves in a higher regard via their arrogant typing. I waited 25 minutes for an edit, is there a point to this post?
 
I'm really not sure which way to go. I was about to purchase a brand new iMac with the Skylake CPU, 32GB ram, 4GB VRAM and 1TB SSD, and then I saw Apple reforms of the same spec, using the older CPU and GPU (Late 2014 spec), at a cost difference of €800.
So, the question is, are the performance gains of the newer spec worth €800. Ok, so i get a newer mouse and keyboard design with the late 2015 spec, but that's no deal maker. Both will have an Apple warranty, both eligible for AppleCare.

Which way would you swing??
 
I received my iMac. Top 2015 iMac 5K scores 50% better than my old top 2011. So I got enough difference to make me happy about update. The new display is gorgeous, feels like it only is worth the money spent on this new computer. 64bit multi-core is about 18000 point on Geekbench
 
You don't need to type out your physical actions, I can tell when someone is holding themselves in a higher regard via their arrogant typing. I waited 25 minutes for an edit, is there a point to this post?

I don't hold myself in a higher regard, the 'sigh' was because the iMac wasn't built as a gaming machine (but it actually runs games quite well for what it is) and that all the "fan-noise-thermal-throttling-gpu-is-crap" crowd are gamers bashing this amazing computer because it gets a bit louder and warmer when they run benchmarks on it. People come here for advice but get completely confused with messages like "the M395X is crap" or "the new model is a joke" etc. because "QQ it throttles in Valley QQ". But you're right, this really has no point. It's not like you guys will ever accept this. Every popular product on this planet has a small but loud crowd saying it's "totally unacceptable because of X".
 
I don't hold myself in a higher regard, the 'sigh' was because the iMac wasn't built as a gaming machine (but it actually runs games quite well for what it is) and that all the "fan-noise-thermal-throttling-gpu-is-crap" crowd are gamers bashing this amazing computer because it gets a bit louder and warmer when they run benchmarks on it. People come here for advice but get completely confused with messages like "the M395X is crap" or "the new model is a joke" etc. because "QQ it throttles in Valley QQ". But you're right, this really has no point. It's not like you guys will ever accept this. Every popular product on this planet has a small but loud crowd saying it's "totally unacceptable because of X".

I understand your point from your perspective however I have more of a broad view on the subject. First saying an iMac isn't a gaming machine is typically fluff for saying it's not a powerful machine since that is basically what a gaming machine is (an machine designed to handle constant graphical task as fast as possible). I agree with you for what it is, the iMac does pretty well however I would say more accurately OS X isn't built for gaming. For an all in one the iMac does alright.

I have absolutely no problem with that. However like my initial point was if you can make it thermal throttle under a sustained load then what is the point? Why pay a premium price for a feature that will retard its performance when you need it the most? Some will argue that even throttled performance is better then the lower graphics cards but I feel that's a scapegoat.

With the 2012 design in the past you were able to max out the GPU and CPU with cooling capacity to spare. My 2013 is a prime example, if I encode a video and play a game (ESO for example) I can't get above 95 degrees with the fan at ~1400 RPM. Yes game performance sucks and the encode is slowed to a crawl but it's not limited by it cooling design, it's limited by the actual hardware. IMO for an all in one that is impressive and illustrates the perfect combination in engineering of form and function.

Again I have no problem with the 295/395x overall performance, it is what it is. Nor have I mentioned fan noise. I'm talking purely about thermal throttling and the fact in real world circumstances it could arise AND it hasn't always been that way.
 
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I don't know why people are surprised/complaining about the CPU.

The 6700k and 4790k are the fastest quad core desktop chips Intel has to offer. We didn't use to have the option for the fastest chips in the iMac, I remember how excited I was last year when I saw Apple put the 4Ghz 4790k in there.

Would I (and the majority of the target market for theses chips) be happier if Intel dropped the igp for 2 extra cores? Of course! But for a variety of reasons, that won't happen (at least not until Intel decides 6 cores is the new mainstream sweet spot).

Would I be happy if Intel actually seemed to be trying to improve high end desktop performance? Hell yeah I would. But until either AMD steps ups its game or ARM chips start to encroach on the desktop space, it's unlikely. There's just way more money to be made in low power igp integrated chip sales.

Is any of this Apple's fault? Not really. If you wanna be mad at Apple for this years iMacs there's plenty of reasonable reasons, from the lack of dgpus in the 4K, the rebadged AMD gpus in the 27, or shafting users by withholding the latest IO.
the CPU choice however really isn't one of em...

Unless of course you were hoping Apple would shift the high end to 6 cores :)

Good point. People forget that the iMac is essentially a large laptop from a design/component standpoint. Its pretty remarkable that they can fit (and safely run) a top of the line desktop processor in it.
 
Sorry to basically repost what you did. Sometimes I just read the OP and feel inclined to point out the obvious without reading any further.

On that note, am I the only one that finds that thermal throttling in an iMac is inexcusable? If you built a PC and it did the same thing then you did it wrong. Usually this means you need to check your layout, fans and how well the thermal paste was applied. But you do not leave it like that, thats the point of running a stress test after a build. I understand that an all-in-one has its limitation but either the components need to be picked better to match the case or the case needs to be engineered to match the components.

I hear you on this one. Personally I could care less if the iMac has such a small profile. I would rather they had stuck with the same thickness as the previous iteration and instead focused on better thermals and a desktop GPU.
 
Lol. The day apple puts usb c ports only in these iMacs, millions of people are gonna bitch about the lack of USB ports on a desktop computer.

And when they don't, people bitch about not having it.

The Internet is hard to please

Ya, Apple has some thick skin. Or rather they have 'we don't care because your gunna buy our products no matter what we do' skin...
 
I don't hold myself in a higher regard, the 'sigh' was because the iMac wasn't built as a gaming machine (but it actually runs games quite well for what it is) and that all the "fan-noise-thermal-throttling-gpu-is-crap" crowd are gamers bashing this amazing computer because it gets a bit louder and warmer when they run benchmarks on it. People come here for advice but get completely confused with messages like "the M395X is crap" or "the new model is a joke" etc. because "QQ it throttles in Valley QQ". But you're right, this really has no point. It's not like you guys will ever accept this. Every popular product on this planet has a small but loud crowd saying it's "totally unacceptable because of X".

Agree with you. If you are buying this machine or want this machine to be built for serious gaming, your wrong. I laugh at gamers bashing it. It truly is an incredible machine that happens to run games decently.
 
Here's what I did in response to Apple's failure to offer real performance at a reasonable price: I bought a Core i7 machine, but not from Apple. I assembled a box with a 3.0 GHz eight core i7-5960X (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117404) using a mainboard which can handle up to 128 GiB DD4 RAM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132506) which I loaded with 64 GiB (for now) plus a mid range video card and a few other necessities. Now I have a machine which outperforms the eight core Mac Pro at less than half the price. It's not thin or shiny, though. It runs Linux and is usually operated remotely with its applications being controlled through a web interface or via terminal emulation.
 
Here's what I did in response to Apple's failure to offer real performance at a reasonable price: I bought a Core i7 machine, but not from Apple. I assembled a box with a 3.0 GHz eight core i7-5960X (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117404) using a mainboard which can handle up to 128 GiB DD4 RAM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132506) which I loaded with 64 GiB (for now) plus a mid range video card and a few other necessities. Now I have a machine which outperforms the eight core Mac Pro at less than half the price. It's not thin or shiny, though. It runs Linux and is usually operated remotely with its applications being controlled through a web interface or via terminal emulation.

Ok, that is all nice, but what if you DO want thin or shiny? As I said numerous times - if you want raw power and that's all you care about - there is PLENTY of choice in the PC world. Nothing wrong with wanting to have the best horsepower you can buy for the money.

But what if you want a slim, elegant, silent All-in-one computer with a beautiful 5K screen and that runs OS X? I somehow doubt your i7 fits in that category. I don't need 64Gb of RAM (since you do I am assuming you're doing some serious CG rendering or running multiple virtual machines) - I had 24Gb and returned 8 - as I found out that even 16Gb is overkill for my work. I don't need a 3Ghz i7. What I do need is a HiDPI screen that shows my illustrations in print-quality, that runs OS X (Windows....? Uh, just no.) and that - why not - looks great. As for reasonable performance - define reasonable. I don't measure performance in Mhz, I measure in productivity experience.

My question to you is - why are you here?
 
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I hear you on this one. Personally I could care less if the iMac has such a small profile. I would rather they had stuck with the same thickness as the previous iteration and instead focused on better thermals and a desktop GPU.

Previous iteration has the same thermals - in fact, the latest design has better cooling. If you want better thermals that is all fine and well, but the old design probably wouldn't help. You probably need something that is not All-in-one.

But seriously - if you don't care about things like small profile - why an iMac?? Why don't you just get a PC with a 4K 27" screen?
 
I understand your point from your perspective however I have more of a broad view on the subject. First saying an iMac isn't a gaming machine is typically fluff for saying it's not a powerful machine since that is basically what a gaming machine is (an machine designed to handle constant graphical task as fast as possible).

Fair enough. However, you're basically talking about sustained heavy-load performance. Most work that the iMac is popular for (design, photography, illustration, etc) requires burst type performance where throttling is not an issue. This is the reason why OS X users, when they need sustained power (for, say, video rendering) - they get a Mac Pro.

Now, I understand what you're saying - make the thermal properties of an iMac better (by changing the design) and you get better performance for - theoretically - the same price. But it's not that simple. The reason why Apple can offer this killer display and build quality is because the iMac is popular and they can produce it in larger volumes as it finds its audience. That means they have to provide a machine that will cater both to people that need performance and to people that actually care about design, size, general 'feel' of the computer. Apple has been working like this for years and years - they make something that has that "cool" factor. While making a computer that is thin and elegant may not mean much to you, it sure means a great deal to a lot of people who don't really measure heat of a CPU or GPU while running a benchmark. A computer you want would not seem magical and fancy and 'shiny' (or whatever derogatory term people use here to describe these things as if they don't matter to anyone - while, in fact, they do).

And, let's be honest, it's not as if the iMacs are not powerful. I mean, I'd totally agree with you guys if the iMac would barely run apps, but in fact they are really, really fast. All the reviewers say it's fast too, I'm not making this up. I have an i5 5K and I am yet to see how my computer is somehow slow in anything. As I said, I have large PSD files open all the time, I use Zbrush, I use 3ds Max (in Bootcamp) - the thing flies. 3ds Max is not a lightweight program, let me tell you. Sure, there are some workloads that require farms consisting of large towers - but what kind of work is too much for a new iMac? Seriously, I'm asking - is there anything, other than gaming, that you think the iMac is inadequate for?

The way I'm seeing, you're trading some benchmark-only performance in most of tasks for dramatic improvement in how the computer looks and feels. That screen, that futuristic look, that silence, that computer that looks like it's from the future - and that Apple can make because, you know, people will actually buy.

I don't know guys, I just love my iMac. For me, measuring the value of a computer by just looking at the specs is like valuing a car just based on the horsepower of it's engine. Sure - if you want to race - that is by far the most important thing. But for the rest of us, there's something to be said about how the thing looks and feels.
 
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Good points all around. In an ideal world, I would get an iMac, and a separate gaming rig. Unfortunately, I don't have that kind of extra money. A great gaming rig would cost roughly $800 plus a screen, and then the iMac is almost $3k by itself. Thus, in an ideal world considering my budget, the iMac 5k would also be awesome for gaming, so that I could "double up." Unfortunately, I don't think it is great for the modern games I would like to play. It seems it's totally fine for non-demanding games by Blizzard and the like. I am tempted to move to PC, but there is some audio hardware/software I'd like to get for work that is OS X-only, and I also like using OS X more than Windows. So, I am somewhat stuck in limbo here, and that is one of the reasons I'm now considering a hackintosh. I don't care much about thinness. Apple's sleekness is nice, but not a deal breaker for me, unlike the GPU.
 
Good points all around. In an ideal world, I would get an iMac, and a separate gaming rig. Unfortunately, I don't have that kind of extra money. A great gaming rig would cost roughly $800 plus a screen, and then the iMac is almost $3k by itself. Thus, in an ideal world considering my budget, the iMac 5k would also be awesome for gaming, so that I could "double up." Unfortunately, I don't think it is great for the modern games I would like to play. It seems it's totally fine for non-demanding games by Blizzard and the like. I am tempted to move to PC, but there is some audio hardware/software I'd like to get for work that is OS X-only, and I also like using OS X more than Windows. So, I am somewhat stuck in limbo here, and that is one of the reasons I'm now considering a hackintosh. I don't care much about thinness. Apple's sleekness is nice, but not a deal breaker for me, unlike the GPU.

Yes, if you need OS X and a gamer GPU - hackintosh may be your best and only option.

However - just a suggestion - why not do what I did? Get an iMac and for a price of a GPU upgrade - get a PS4. You'll be able to run PC only games like Blizzard titles and MMOs on the iMac just great and for modern AAA games the PS4 will be awesome (not to mention the exclusives).
 
Yes, if you need OS X and a gamer GPU - hackintosh may be your best and only option.

However - just a suggestion - why not do what I did? Get an iMac and for a price of a GPU upgrade - get a PS4. You'll be able to run PC only games like Blizzard titles and MMOs on the iMac just great and for modern AAA games the PS4 will be awesome (not to mention the exclusives).

That's a pretty good suggestion. In fact, I am planning on buying a PS4 (for the exclusives) on Black Friday, but I'd still like to be able to play other multi-platform games like Fallout 4 on PC. I just think it will be a better experience on the computer than on a console, but I could be wrong. I enjoy Fallout 3 more on my old PC than I did Skyrim on my Xbox 360. Granted, maybe it's not $800 better than the console experience.

I really wish I could just buy an Apple computer to satisfy all of my needs, but unfortunately, Apple doesn't make a computer for everyone (and I admit I'm being a little picky).
 
That's a pretty good suggestion. In fact, I am planning on buying a PS4 (for the exclusives) on Black Friday, but I'd still like to be able to play other multi-platform games like Fallout 4 on PC. I just think it will be a better experience on the computer than on a console, but I could be wrong. I enjoy Fallout 3 more on my old PC than I did Skyrim on my Xbox 360. Granted, maybe it's not $800 better than the console experience.

I really wish I could just buy an Apple computer to satisfy all of my needs, but unfortunately, Apple doesn't make a computer for everyone (and I admit I'm being a little picky).
A PS4, being a dedicated console, is a better deal overall for gaming than is any Mac or PC. No matter which platform is chosen, there will always be a few big titles not available; but I'd say that a PS4 suffers the least in this regard. Also, the big name console makers have all resolved thermal issues which are still not well addressed in the latest iMacs, although it took Microsoft a long time and many RRoD warranty repairs. And Microsoft did the right thing by increasing Xbox cooling capacity and not by throttling graphics performance.

The sad thing is that at one time Apple DID make a computer for (almost) everyone. They had the 400 MHz iMac Dv anh the 500 MHz iMac SE back in 2000 and 2001, I bought one of each as gifts. Apple had the 400 MHz G4 Power Mac back in 2001, and I bought one of those as well. I also bought a dual CPU 1 GHz PPC Xserve new in 2002. Each of these machines had easy expandable memory, easy drive upgrade/replacement, easy CMOS battery replacement, wireless upgrade/replacement (except the Xserve), easy video upgrade/replacement (except the iMacs). These were all state of the art machines and were competitive with any others in their respective classes. Further, the 400 MHz iMac is still running today, upgraded with AirPort, 1 GiB RAM, and a 120 GB drive. So is the 400 MHz Power Mac, upgraded with AirPort, 2 GiB RAM, two 120 GB drives, a beefier video card to drive a 1920x1200 display, and a DVD writer.

How do these machines compare with today's iMacs? On the 21" iMac, there are no upgradeable parts, and only the RAM can be upgraded in the 27" iMac. It didn't have to be this way, but Apple Computer morphed into Apple Jewelry and Fashion; all have lost because of this -- well, all except for short term stockholders. But even for them, the day is coming when the thin and shiny fad will at last run its course.
 
That's a pretty good suggestion. In fact, I am planning on buying a PS4 (for the exclusives) on Black Friday, but I'd still like to be able to play other multi-platform games like Fallout 4 on PC. I just think it will be a better experience on the computer than on a console, but I could be wrong.

The graphics are usually better on a PC, but nothing drastic because almost all games are made to work on consoles first, then get small upgrades for the PC. I always prefer playing on a big TV with a controller in my hand to playing with a slightly higher graphical quality. PS4 games look amazing and I don't have to tweak video settings and resolutions, they "just work". Like Apple :) In fact, PS4 is not just games and hardware - it's the whole service.

Also, the standby mode that gets me straight into a game at the exact place I left off in a few seconds after deciding to play is alone worth it. You'll definitely enjoy Fallout 4 on the PS4, don't worry about it.

This all is just my opinion, of course :) I'm sure there are a lot of PC gamers that disagree, but for me, I always prefer playing games on my PS4.
 
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