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OLED Displays in iPods?

Re: In typical Apple fashion...

Originally posted by Sayer
In typical Apple fashion, everyone else will be using OLEDs in their products months before Apple.

DELL and Gateway will introduce computers/displays/devices with OLED screens right before Apple making Apple's use seem reactionary and not revolutionary as usual.

And Apple's prices will be higher than anyone elses further driving people AWAY from Apple products.

Learn Steve, sometimes it pays to be FIRST and CHEAPER than the competition. Imagine the shock and awe of having an ultra thin flat panel display with an Apple logo being the ONLY OLED display you can buy for a few months.

Ditch ADC and make it with DVI and you could actually sell them to non-Mac users! Imagine that! It could even be compatible with third party wall-mounting hardware so it could be MORE USEFUL and have MORE VALUE and possibly sell MORE UNITS!
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I would not be suprised... at all... Even though many people on these forums have a biased opinion when it comes to apples and PC's, when looked at logically, PCs get the newer stuff, cheaper, before macs get them. There are a few exceptions to this, but this is what happens in most cases. That is why I won't be suprised if apple releases an OLED display later then Dell/other PC manufacturers and have it priced 'less competitively'.

Sounds like a great technology, let's hope my LCD holds up till these are released in high resolution LCD displays. :)
 
Let's stay consistent

A number of people have mentioned that these would be good for video iPods - let's remember that Steve recently was quoted as saying that video iPods are most likely not on Apple's to-do list
 
Re: Let's stay consistent

Originally posted by joelc
A number of people have mentioned that these would be good for video iPods - let's remember that Steve recently was quoted as saying that video iPods are most likely not on Apple's to-do list
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I saw all the interview bits after that and I just have to say that it's a shame. I really am in love with this product.

http://www.smartdisk.com/Products/DigitalMultimedia/FlashTrax.asp#Tech

If the iPod could do what it does I would have it in a heart beat. The main reason I love it is that I can take the CF cards right out of my digital camera and stick them in it and copy my images over and then put the card back in my camera. I wouldn't need a bunch of huge CF cards for a trip I could just take my 30GB portable storage device and my camera and carry them both in my pockets.
 
it may very well happen that PC companies will be the "first" to adopt OLED technology, but Apple will be the ones who actually do something useful and cool with it.

and as soon as early 2004 for a OLED iPod!!! :D

another reason why PC companies might be quicker to adopt a new technology is because PC people are only interested in the latest stuff (generally speaking). if Apple isn't the first out with OLED it will probably be because they are ironing out bugs with them. PC companies will be happy to release cruddy hardware and start making money off it, but as we all know, Apple usually releases products of very high quality.
 
Originally posted by shecky
i had a Motorola Timeport phone also, with the OLED display. i got rid of it because you can not see it in direct sunlight. i can only hope this issue is resolved before Apple uses the technology.
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Well, there's about no color display that can actually be seen in direct sunlight. I cant even see may CRT when it reflects direct sunlight.
 
OLED's WEB SITE - check it out

Try this URL,

http://www.universaldisplay.com/


I think the battery time increase will be about
three times the current capacity, at least.

OLEDS are microscopically thin (1/50,000 of an inch) layers of ink that shines WITHOUT NEED OF A BACKLIGHT, when exposed to an electric field. This uses much less energy than current backlights use.

"STACKED OLED's" have RED, GREEN and BLUE
sub-pixels on top of each other FOR EACH PIXEL site : not side-by-side (s-b-s).

These columns of stacked sub-pixels are transparent.

So each individual pixel can have any hue (e.g., pink, purple, white, etc.)

Traditional s-b-s subpixels yield washed out colors by comparison. For example, a red image would have its green and blue pixels in a dark state --- that's a loss of 2/3 of your pixels
and, therefore, 2/3 of your color saturation.

STACKED OLED displays would, instead, have shoulder-to-shoulder red pixels for an image of a cherry, and shoulder-to-shoulder pink pixels for an image of a strawberry milkshake.

Active matrix displays , of course, need individually addressable transistors at each cross-roads of the array. But they can be extremely small, and so can the ink-spots. So
resolution will be limited mainly by the processor and memory capacity.

The manufacturing process may become as simple as printing (one sample was done on a modified ink-jet printer) substrate by the roll
and then cutting to size !

Prices will be in the hundreds instead of the thousands, for large screens.

By using mirrored substrate , a transflective display will cure sun-washout.

THE PROBLEM HAS BEEN --- keeping the organics safe from oxidation in the atmosphere: Plastic coats are permeable.
Glass kills the "ruggedness" promise of an all-plastic display...

WHERE IS SCOTTY AND HIS TRANSPARENT ALUMINUM WHEN WE NEED HIM ?!!

But even glass may not need to be the terribly expensive "mother glass" used in LCD's now.


Beam me up Spock ...


---gooddog
 
There is little doubt that OLEDs will become the defacto standard in the years to come and should be better then the current line of displays in every way. Though there we are going to have to wait a least a couple years for the bugs to be worked out. That was the first time I heard about the stacked pixes with OLED that is really cool. Just imagine having 3 times the resolution on your display because they don't have to make room for all those damn red, green, blue pixels side by side.
 
MANY COOL POSSIBILITIES -- IN A CAR

Imagine a transparent sheet overlay built into your windshield that , with McWorth eye-tracking sensors, will project a 3D navigation heads-up display and even an infra-red enhanced scene for missing those pedestrians in the fog .

... built-in rear-view patch instead of the
head bangger mirror now in use...

And night-vision views... make headlights less crucial --- maybe only running lights and some powerful/invisible IR floods.

With appropriate software, the scene out the front could be magnified and tailored to compensate for any number of problems -- including night blindness, tunnel vision, color blindness, etc....

Then park and enjoy a great flick --- like
your own Drive-In --- how nostalgic !

And , eventually , a toggle on-off billboard scene so that physical billboards and ads need not clutter the neighborhoods.

Or how about a dark spot only exactly where the setting sun appears in your field of view.

Oh, well !!!!

Let's wait and see.

---gooddog
 
Re: MANY COOL POSSIBILITIES -- IN A CAR

Originally posted by gooddog
Imagine a transparent sheet overlay built into your windshield that , with McWorth eye-tracking sensors, will project a 3D navigation heads-up display and even an infra-red enhanced scene for missing those pedestrians in the fog .

... built-in rear-view patch instead of the
head bangger mirror now in use...

And night-vision views... make headlights less crucial --- maybe only running lights and some powerful/invisible IR floods.

With appropriate software, the scene out the front could be magnified and tailored to compensate for any number of problems -- including night blindness, tunnel vision, color blindness, etc....

Then park and enjoy a great flick --- like
your own Drive-In --- how nostalgic !

And , eventually , a toggle on-off billboard scene so that physical billboards and ads need not clutter the neighborhoods.

Or how about a dark spot only exactly where the setting sun appears in your field of view.

Oh, well !!!!

Let's wait and see.

---gooddog
Click to expand...

That would indeed be very useful. I would love to see all that in a car's front window; very very cool! I've been reading up a lot about HU displays lately and have to say they have a future, but not with today's display technology. But this OLED thing might do the trick! Very impressive what it can do...
 
The general idea of a fully interactive car windshield is neat, though there's a few problems with implementation.

1. What if the display's OS crashes, and you're going 70 mph with The Godfather II covering your windshield?

2. replacing headlights with night vision wouldn't be a good idea, since pedestrians (read: dark country roads) don't have night vision.

3. Toggled windshield billboards would be horrible once they got mainstream. You'll have X10 on the highways. If you mean highway road signs, and not ads, well, read [1].

The overall idea is awesome, but I don't think full-windshield implementation would be good.

But, I can see non-static billboards (OLED screens as billboards). Those'll be cool. and wouldn't it be great if NYC replaced the Time Square bigscreens with OLEDs? In the words of Crush the Turtle: "Sweet."
 
Originally posted by iMook
The general idea of a fully interactive car windshield is neat, though there's a few problems with implementation.

1. What if the display's OS crashes, and you're going 70 mph with The Godfather II covering your windshield?

2. replacing headlights with night vision wouldn't be a good idea, since pedestrians (read: dark country roads) don't have night vision.

3. Toggled windshield billboards would be horrible once they got mainstream. You'll have X10 on the highways. If you mean highway road signs, and not ads, well, read [1].

The overall idea is awesome, but I don't think full-windshield implementation would be good.

But, I can see non-static billboards (OLED screens as billboards). Those'll be cool. and wouldn't it be great if NYC replaced the Time Square bigscreens with OLEDs? In the words of Crush the Turtle: "Sweet."
Click to expand...

There are quite a few motion billboards in the Tacoma area and the problem is that the accident rate has gone up dramatically near them. The problem is they don't just rotate from one static image to the next. The advertisements are just like commercials on TV requiring and even insisting people pay attention.

I do think though that a few small displays in an out of the way place on the windshied would be great to give you information about your speed and the motor and the car radio etc.. Combine the radio display with voice control like on the new Lexus RX and you have a great system.
 
Re: Re: Let's stay consistent

Originally posted by MacBandit
I saw all the interview bits after that and I just have to say that it's a shame. I really am in love with this product.

http://www.smartdisk.com/Products/DigitalMultimedia/FlashTrax.asp#Tech

If the iPod could do what it does I would have it in a heart beat. The main reason I love it is that I can take the CF cards right out of my digital camera and stick them in it and copy my images over and then put the card back in my camera. I wouldn't need a bunch of huge CF cards for a trip I could just take my 30GB portable storage device and my camera and carry them both in my pockets.
Click to expand...

Have you seen the battery life?

What is FlashTrax’ battery life?
It depends on what you’re doing: For MP3 playback, it’s about 3 hours. When using the LCD to view photos, it’s about 2 hours.
Click to expand...

Whats the point of the MP3 player if its only able to play for 3 hours? You may as well get an iPod and keep your camera with you all the time to view the pictures. Yes, it looks impressive on the outside, but I think this is like those Rio MP3 players; too much, too soon. As said before, the OLEDs will allow longer battery lifes (due to the omission of the backlight) and probably thinner and lighter devices due to advances in hard drive minaturisation. The type of innovation and style attempted by FlashTrax is, at this moment of time, only visible in companies such as Sony and Apple, and one of them will do something like the Flash Trx properly someday.
 
Not a problem ...

There would be no physical billboards , animated or otherwise, on the road side.

The density of virtual ads on the windshield would be regulated as billboards' density is now.

The size and location, on the windshield, as well as animation etc. would all be regulated more easily in a virtual world than they are now. And you could switch them all or some to a separate display on the dash so as to drive with *more* safety, not less.

The legal battles might parallel those currently being fought over ad-skipping Tivo's, spam, etc.

I am confident a good deal could be reached vís-a-vís the ad industry.


Flip ads on, and get a discount on hydrogen for your fuel cell, or other bonus.

If the windshield display crashes at 70 mph, it reverts back to clear glass...pull the plug :)

Pedestrians could use beautiful features for landmarks and they could also have handheld ( ultra-light, flexible) receivers
as well as very small wooden signs for landmarks -- like they mandate in up-scale neighborhoods .... nothing new.

Headlights would not be eliminated --
they would be replaced with dimmer "running lights" -- beautiful , colorful, and not pointed at our faces. With coming LED technology and current translucent plastics, we could make the whole vehicle glow softly over an extended area of the visual field : I think the dim-but-huge lights on old Mercedes' cars are much easier on the eyes of on-coming traffic than the latest beady-eyed super bright point lights (the bluish ones) on the road. And the total flux of light can be equal.

The billboards would have to look just like they do now -- no difference. Animated distractions would be legislated as they are now. But when you step out of the car, you get a clean landscape. These "signs" would be driver-specific ... but no porno , please !!! We would all die :)



Such things ( using wi-fi) are actually in the works now -- with audio and advertisements tailored to the I.D. of the driver -- each car gets ads on the radio tailored to their buying habits. This is a small improvement, IMO, since I often enjoy ads for things I want to buy. But I am sure there would be even better ideas coming.

Movies would work only while parked.

BTW, what if your current anti-skid system malfunctions at 80 mph and applies the brake to only your right front tire ???

... just a thought.

---gooddog
 
Re: Re: Re: Let's stay consistent

Originally posted by MOFS
Have you seen the battery life?



Whats the point of the MP3 player if its only able to play for 3 hours? You may as well get an iPod and keep your camera with you all the time to view the pictures. Yes, it looks impressive on the outside, but I think this is like those Rio MP3 players; too much, too soon. As said before, the OLEDs will allow longer battery lifes (due to the omission of the backlight) and probably thinner and lighter devices due to advances in hard drive minaturisation. The type of innovation and style attempted by FlashTrax is, at this moment of time, only visible in companies such as Sony and Apple, and one of them will do something like the Flash Trx properly someday.
Click to expand...

For me it's not about battery life. I would probably only use it as an MP3 player while in the car and the rest of the time it would be off. I would only turn it on to download the images from my camera to it. That would be the main purpose to hold the images not to view them. 30Gigs of hard drive is a lot cheaper then 1Gig CF cards at $200 a piece. It's kind of a mobile storage unit.

If you or anyone else knows of a portable hard drive that can be used to copy pictures over without a computer let me know.
 
Yeah, the military uses this stuff in maps and other stuff. We should look for these to replace regular tv's in about 5 years. Imagine just hanging a tv on your wall, or taking it with you by just rolling it up. pretty exciting technology.
 
Gooddog,
In regard to the permeability problem, there was a recent breakthough by Vitex (further research being funded by Samsung through Vitex) and a protoytpe developed and displayed at the recent SID for a flexible OLED display using Universal Display Corporation's PHOLED (PH implies Phosphorescent Doped) which is up to 4 times as efficient as regular flourescent OLED. The new barrier coating is highly impermeable and also rugged.

An additional breakthough was also demoed at SID by IBM/Chi Mei & and separately by AU Optronics/Universal Display Corporation for OLEDs printed on amorphous silicon backplanes.

Universal Display is working with Sony and Samsung in addition to AU Optronics and Dupont (which intends to develop and market a solution based version on Universal Display's materials).

I believe the manufacturing companies (I think Sanyo and Pioneer have been working with Kodaks materials & Phillips LG with CDT's)are all trying to enhance their brands and differentiate their products with OLED. AAPL is smart to be considering this new technology, especially for portable devices where the significantly lower weight, and power efficiencies will enhance the product. The lifetime of blue is a hurdle being tackled on many fronts. I have my fingers crossed that there will be a 10,000 hour blue by next year. Red and green are over 15,000 hours, which is important because they get the most usage in a color display. I think blue gets significantly lower use in real life so perhaps blue might last longer in actual use, than at full time burn at 200 nits.

It would be nice to see an OLED iPod. Sony's 13" prototype monitor certainly was certainly sleek.
 
Thanx BEGOOD !! Great news !!!

This sounds fantastic !


I had not kept up with developments.

Every time they have a demo, I have to be at work .

I guess the blue uses more energy
( Plank) and so it takes a greater beating.

If my G4 iMac could plug into the Apple
23" , I would have blown my savings on one by now; maybe good thing's-a-comin for those of us on a teacher's budget :)

One thing I do wish Apple would do is to make the displays serve as TV monitors for satellite HD TV ( the REAL 1080 progressive standard ) .

I just can't see me spending on such a big screen twice.

---gooddog
 
Originally posted by begood
I think blue gets significantly lower use in real life so perhaps blue might last longer in actual use, than at full time burn at 200 nits
Click to expand...

Not for OS X users who don't change the default background... :)

Dave
 
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