One more test, before returning the MM

[circatee]

Since Tuesday I've owned my Mac Mini. During that time I've dealt with a few issues: Bluetooth mouse issues (even with the OS update). A few HDMI issues, now resolved. With the mouse issue, apparently some are experiencing this issue even with a dongle, versus Bluetooth. I will perform a few tests. But, if it persists, it might be time to return the MM...

The idea behind the purchase was to merely learn Mac OS, and possibly learn iMovie. Here we are 4 days later and I feel I just exhausted with the unit. To me, it has not been fun dealing with the issues. Thus really haven't had a moment to just enjoy the unit.

Again, if my dongle test fails, I'll stick with Windows and try Mac again later in the year or something.

A shame really...

 

[Berries-A-Million]

I just installed my new Mac Mini M1, and no issues with my Logi keyboard or Mx mouse using the Logi dongle.

 

[circatee]

I am now connected with my Logitech Keys keyboard and MX Master, via the dongle (borrowed it from my Windows PC). And, NO stuttering or anything!

Now the challenge is do I merely purchase another mouse and keyboard setup for my Windows PC, or struggle with Bluetooth. Hate to 'throw' money at an issue...

 

[Berries-A-Million]

Not sure which ones you have exactly, but I know on my logi keyb and mx master mouse, I can switch between 1-3 devices. So if you connect your keyb and mx to the windows pc bluetooth on device 2 on each, it can be used that way and use the dongle on the mac as device 1.

 

[ForkHandles]

If I bought a Mac mini could I use my 2011 iMac as a monitor?
it has a Thunderbolt port and is a great 27” screen. I just want a snapper processor.

 

[circatee]

Not sure which ones you have exactly, but I know on my logi keyb and mx master mouse, I can switch between 1-3 devices. So if you connect your keyb and mx to the windows pc bluetooth on device 2 on each, it can be used that way and use the dongle on the mac as device 1.

I understand your idea. However, on my PC, no bluetooth. Currently, I merely have the keyboard and mouse connected like this:
- Mac Mini, dongle for both keyboard and mouse
- Windows PC, another dongle (had a spare), for both keyboard and mouse

Over the coming days, I will test using both systems, and see how it goes. During my test of posting this message, from the Mac Mini, all seems okay. No stuttering per se' on the mouse. But, still not 100% as smooth as it is on the Windows PC. Albeit, that could be OS related...

 

[Partron22]

I keep my Minis on a nice 3/4-1" board or chunk of aluminum. Seems to help with Bluetooth troubles. -Raises the antenna a bit.

 

[circatee]

I keep my Minis on a nice 3/4-1" board or chunk of aluminum. Seems to help with Bluetooth troubles. -Raises the antenna a bit.

Hmm, interesting idea!

 

[Fishrrman]

Bluetooth is almost always going to be "problematical" on the Mini.

This is due to the limitations of the hardware design, and I predict it will not be "fixed" so long as the Mini retains its current form factor.

Perhaps the only way to make bt "stable" with a Mini is to buy a 3rd party bt adapter, and a USB "extension cable", and locate the bt adapter "away from the body of the Mini" somewhat.

Do not expect to buy another Mini, and not experience the same issues...

 

[svanstrom]

If I bought a Mac mini could I use my 2011 iMac as a monitor?

Use your iMac as a display with target display mode

Target display mode is a feature available with certain older Mac models.

support.apple.com

 

[circatee]

Bluetooth is almost always going to be "problematical" on the Mini.

This is due to the limitations of the hardware design, and I predict it will not be "fixed" so long as the Mini retains its current form factor.

Perhaps the only way to make bt "stable" with a Mini is to buy a 3rd party bt adapter, and a USB "extension cable", and locate the bt adapter "away from the body of the Mini" somewhat.

Do not expect to buy another Mini, and not experience the same issues...

Hmm, interesting. So, the issues with Bluetooth are not 'new' per se', they have always been there?
If so, rather weird...

 

[DJLC]

Hmm, interesting. So, the issues with Bluetooth are not 'new' per se', they have always been there?
If so, rather weird...

I've got the 2019 Intel Mac mini, and the problems I hear about with BT on the M1 are almost exactly the same as what mine does... random disconnects of BT devices, randomly slow WiFi. The idea that it's a design flaw in the chassis makes sense to me.

 

[Hessel89]

2,4 Ghz wifi networks will screw with your Mac mini's bluetooth. This has been the case with my 2012, 2018 and M1 Mac mini's.

So If you can, switch your router to 5Ghz.

 

[circatee]

Honestly, I simply never knew that the Bluetooth 'issue' was a thing on the Mac Mini. And, here I was thinking that it was merely the M1 edition. But, nope...

 

[svanstrom]

Honestly, I simply never knew that the Bluetooth 'issue' was a thing on the Mac Mini. And, here I was thinking that it was merely the M1 edition. But, nope...

Back in the day when all wifi was fighting over the same frequencies as bluetooth it could be a real problem; early enough days and running a microwave could cripple both your wifi and bluetooth.

 

[MacCheetah3]

Back in the day when all wifi was fighting over the same frequencies as bluetooth it could be a real problem; early enough days and running a microwave could cripple both your wifi and bluetooth.

Don't forget cordless (home) telephones. ? Same thing. They could cripple your Wi-Fi or sometimes the Wi-Fi would create call problems.

Any who... To the original problem...

If you can't connect your Magic Keyboard, Magic Mouse, or Magic Trackpad to your Mac

Try these steps to resolve issues with your Magic accessories.

support.apple.com

Also, I don't know if it's mentioned in the above document but do check your USB 3.0 devices.

Shielding Resolves USB 3.0 Conflict with Bluetooth

We set out to find a resolution to the problem - one that fixes things not just for the miniStack, but for all USB 3.0 drives used with a Mac mini.

eshop.macsales.com

...Which is indeed a hardware conflict(/flaw?) and not platform specific...

Fix Bluetooth problems in Windows - Microsoft Support

Learn how to troubleshoot Bluetooth problems in Windows. Resolve issues connecting a Bluetooth device or accessory.

support.microsoft.com

• Make sure your Bluetooth device is in range. If your Bluetooth device is unresponsive or sluggish, check to make sure it’s not too close to any other USB device that’s plugged into a USB 3.0 port. Unshielded USB devices can sometimes interfere with Bluetooth connections.

One more thing... You can view BT signal strength/quality for devices: RSSI

Either look within the Bluetooth section of System Information or hold the Option key while clicking on the Bluetooth menu bar item, hover over a Bluetooth device name to show the submenu.

 

[circatee]

Don't forget cordless (home) telephones. ? Same thing. They could cripple your Wi-Fi or sometimes the Wi-Fi would create call problems.

Any who... To the original problem...

If you can't connect your Magic Keyboard, Magic Mouse, or Magic Trackpad to your Mac

Try these steps to resolve issues with your Magic accessories.

support.apple.com

Also, I don't know if it's mentioned in the above document but do check your USB 3.0 devices.

Shielding Resolves USB 3.0 Conflict with Bluetooth

We set out to find a resolution to the problem - one that fixes things not just for the miniStack, but for all USB 3.0 drives used with a Mac mini.

eshop.macsales.com

...Which is indeed a hardware conflict(/flaw?) and not platform specific...

Fix Bluetooth problems in Windows - Microsoft Support

Learn how to troubleshoot Bluetooth problems in Windows. Resolve issues connecting a Bluetooth device or accessory.

support.microsoft.com

One more thing... You can view BT signal strength/quality for devices: RSSI

Either look within the Bluetooth section of System Information or hold the Option key while clicking on the Bluetooth menu bar item, hover over a Bluetooth device name to show the submenu.

So this Bluetooth issue on the Mac Mini has been happening for years. Curious why Apple have not 'officially' addressed this; or have they? Hmm...

 

[pmiles]

Apple addresses issues when the bean counters say it will cost them more in lawsuits to not fix the problem than it will to fix it. If an issue has been on-going over multiple models... and there is a work-around that they can convince you to do, they won't bother fixing it. Apple loves it when DIY types figure out how to avoid a problem without actually fixing the problem. The masses drop their pitchforks and forget that they are the ones that are making the device work, not Apple.

You have your "wait and see" types who hold out hope that it will be fixed in some future update and you have your "ship it back" types who will exchange a device indefinitely thinking that somehow a new one will be different than the last. Considering all the hoops early adopters have jumped through... there is an even number of both... which doesn't tip the scales for the bean counters.

 

[MacCheetah3]

So this Bluetooth issue on the Mac Mini has been happening for years.

Yes.

Curious why Apple have not 'officially' addressed this; or have they? Hmm...

Well, the Apple support article. Anything further? I'm not certain -- I can't identify the BT controller location in a teardown article. Nonetheless, presumably, the problem is multi-fold with @pmiles's gripes and conclusions having some validity.

1. There's clearly a potential conflict between USB, BT, and Wi-FI devices.

USB 3 and USB-C devices can cause problems with Wi-Fi and Bluetooth connections, but there's a solution

USB 3 and USB-C devices are everywhere, and they offer a great speed boost for peripherals and storage devices. But there's a possible downside that not many people are aware of -- they can have an adverse effect on Wi-Fi and Bluetooth connections.

www.zdnet.com

2. Low quality cables and devices are more likely to cause interference, thus, of course, be aware if you cheap out -- which goes for any category/department in electronics really: audio, video, etc.
3. There's evidence that Apple could (have) do(ne) more. From the OWC article linked in my previous post...

As it turns out, it seems to be just a matter of protecting the Bluetooth controller card from the USB 3.0 interference. On the Mac mini’s Bluetooth module, there isn’t a whole lot of shielding to protect against this interference – just some small metallic stickers. By wrapping a special foil around most of the Bluetooth controller card (effectively putting a larger shield on the module), we have substantially improved functional Bluetooth range to about 20 feet, though this can vary with each individual setup, dependent on a number of factors, including drive positioning, quality of cable shielding, and number/type of Bluetooth devices being used at once.

I received and had installed the Bluetooth Shielding Kit when I purchased the Data Doubler Kit to add a SATA SSD to my mini. In full disclosure, I wasn't even aware of the potential problem at that point, and hadn't experienced any such issues until last year. For about a week, my Magic Trackpad 2 would stutter than stop. I had no idea why. I had no USB 3 devices at that time, so it couldn't be that. In my case, it must have been my mini temporarily connecting to the 2.4GHz band of my Wi-Fi network -- I guess. The problem resolved itself as surprisingly as it began. I still don't know the cause nor experienced it since. However, I have read similar complaints involving the Magic Trackpad 2 and Logitech connectivity woes. Oddly, nothing about Apple keyboards that I can recall.

Suffice it to say, the problem has a lot of angles and my additional guess is Apple probably won't do a lot more because a) of the multiple possible causes, b) (some) third-party manufacturers can reasonably be in part to blame, and c) it may indeed be a small percentage of customers reporting -- one can't accurately gauge how widespread support problems are based on the ratio in a forum like this.

 

[circatee]

Yes.

Well, the Apple support article. Anything further? I'm not certain -- I can't identify the BT controller location in a teardown article. Nonetheless, presumably, the problem is multi-fold with @pmiles's gripes and conclusions having some validity.

1. There's clearly a potential conflict between USB, BT, and Wi-FI devices.

USB 3 and USB-C devices can cause problems with Wi-Fi and Bluetooth connections, but there's a solution

USB 3 and USB-C devices are everywhere, and they offer a great speed boost for peripherals and storage devices. But there's a possible downside that not many people are aware of -- they can have an adverse effect on Wi-Fi and Bluetooth connections.

www.zdnet.com

2. Low quality cables and devices are more likely to cause interference, thus, of course, be aware if you cheap out -- which goes for any category/department in electronics really: audio, video, etc.
3. There's evidence that Apple could (have) do(ne) more. From the OWC article linked in my previous post...


I received and had installed the Bluetooth Shielding Kit when I purchased the Data Doubler Kit to add a SATA SSD to my mini. In full disclosure, I wasn't even aware of the potential problem at that point, and hadn't experienced any such issues until last year. For about a week, my Magic Trackpad 2 would stutter than stop. I had no idea why. I had no USB 3 devices at that time, so it couldn't be that. In my case, it must have been my mini temporarily connecting to the 2.4GHz band of my Wi-Fi network -- I guess. The problem resolved itself as surprisingly as it began. I still don't know the cause nor experienced it since. However, I have read similar complaints involving the Magic Trackpad 2 and Logitech connectivity woes. Oddly, nothing about Apple keyboards that I can recall.

Suffice it to say, the problem has a lot of angles and my additional guess is Apple probably won't do a lot more because a) of the multiple possible causes, b) (some) third-party manufacturers can reasonably be in part to blame, and c) it may indeed be a small percentage of customers reporting -- one can't accurately gauge how widespread support problems are based on the ratio in a forum like this.

Touche'. Some valid points here, and from a support perspective, it certainly makes sense. Nothing worse that troubleshooting something that is not consistent across the board...