Apple definitely needs to put MORE RAM in the computers by standard. 128 mb don't go long these days. I'm sure ram is the biggest bottleneck in most new Apple computers.
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Open letter to Apple: What I need to stay with Apple in 2K4
- Thread starter MorganX
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
>>1. Your letter would get tossed in the trash can for the simple reasons that you sound like your 15 years old and hangout on mac rumor sites. For example: FP iMac (professional letter would read Flat Panel or even current iMac), BS (thats professional), 17" or 19" (maybe a 19" screen isn't possible so don't jump to conclusions on things that don't even exist).<<
Chuckle, my letter was on a mac rumor site. Do you really think I would send a letter to Apple with SJ from a "Customer wants" perspective. I'd have the secretary write it and wouldn't disclose it on a mac rumors site.
Having said that, given the culture that is supposed to exist at Apple, I would have no qualms whatsoever about writing and informal letter to them.
You can do a lot more as a customer as opposed to being a business associate.
>>2. You said you'd pay 20% for certain upgradable parts. If you're willing to spend extra, get a power mac. It will cost the same by the time you get done with it.<<
I don't want a PowerMac even with all those things.
>>3. The Office software thing. Microsoft makes it and it works just fine. If not, you can use a few others. Why does Apple have to make it?<<
Becasue they are already making it and if they can do it with the style and elegance of Keynote, I'll be one happy mac user. If they make it, and don't really finish it, like Keynote (don't ask me, if you have it and are realistic you know the things that are missing or need fixing.)?
This one I'll withdraw, I won't not purchase an iMac in 2k4 if Apple doesn't have their Office Suite together.
>>4. you don't need firewire 800. Even if you could buy a camera or what ever that suppots fw800, your imac wasn't designed for those needs. It will happen eventually but not in 2004.<<
This is a problem that hopefully someone will start a thread on. It would be a thread I would enjoy reading. This pro/con-sumer designation can't continue IMO.
>> 5. The bus thing. Well Apple depends on others companies for processors and since the bus and processor have to work together, it will be out of Apples hands for right now.<<
I disagree. Apple can ensure this in their selection of their next-gen architecture. The only thing that will stop it is the pro/consumer tiering practice.
>>6. Bluetooth mouse keyboard. Logitech makes them (although radio not blue tooth) and they work fine. The mouse actually has 4 buttons and a scroll wheel to boot.<<
Still desired, from Apple, but withdrawn. This wouldn't keep me from purchasing another iMac.
>>So lets say your wish list doesn't come true. Are you going to jump ship and go with Dell, Gateway, Micron?<<
For personal use I've never purchased and name brand PC in 15 years. If I can't get the iMac I want, I'll probably build a dual processor PC with widescreen display wait for longhorn, I'll keep the iMac or give it to a loved one.
>>When you write your letter to them, how are you going to ask them to make anything on your list? They don't make mice, keyboards, motherboards, office software, or Firewire built in (on a compariable consumer machine)?<<
I loved my iPod on my PC first. $35 3 Firewire 2 USB 2.0 ports. Taht's a whole different, story. There are those who want a bare-bones PowerMac for just such easy to implement consumer coponents.
>>Apple has created a experince with there computers and software. When people see a Apple computer/ipod/OSX, they are in awe.<<
Awe is a little strong, but I do "love" my iPod. But not the new one ;>
Fortunately for Apple there's no competitor better than or as good as my current 5G.
Chuckle, my letter was on a mac rumor site. Do you really think I would send a letter to Apple with SJ from a "Customer wants" perspective. I'd have the secretary write it and wouldn't disclose it on a mac rumors site.
Having said that, given the culture that is supposed to exist at Apple, I would have no qualms whatsoever about writing and informal letter to them.
You can do a lot more as a customer as opposed to being a business associate.
>>2. You said you'd pay 20% for certain upgradable parts. If you're willing to spend extra, get a power mac. It will cost the same by the time you get done with it.<<
I don't want a PowerMac even with all those things.
>>3. The Office software thing. Microsoft makes it and it works just fine. If not, you can use a few others. Why does Apple have to make it?<<
Becasue they are already making it and if they can do it with the style and elegance of Keynote, I'll be one happy mac user. If they make it, and don't really finish it, like Keynote (don't ask me, if you have it and are realistic you know the things that are missing or need fixing.)?
This one I'll withdraw, I won't not purchase an iMac in 2k4 if Apple doesn't have their Office Suite together.
>>4. you don't need firewire 800. Even if you could buy a camera or what ever that suppots fw800, your imac wasn't designed for those needs. It will happen eventually but not in 2004.<<
This is a problem that hopefully someone will start a thread on. It would be a thread I would enjoy reading. This pro/con-sumer designation can't continue IMO.
>> 5. The bus thing. Well Apple depends on others companies for processors and since the bus and processor have to work together, it will be out of Apples hands for right now.<<
I disagree. Apple can ensure this in their selection of their next-gen architecture. The only thing that will stop it is the pro/consumer tiering practice.
>>6. Bluetooth mouse keyboard. Logitech makes them (although radio not blue tooth) and they work fine. The mouse actually has 4 buttons and a scroll wheel to boot.<<
Still desired, from Apple, but withdrawn. This wouldn't keep me from purchasing another iMac.
>>So lets say your wish list doesn't come true. Are you going to jump ship and go with Dell, Gateway, Micron?<<
For personal use I've never purchased and name brand PC in 15 years. If I can't get the iMac I want, I'll probably build a dual processor PC with widescreen display wait for longhorn, I'll keep the iMac or give it to a loved one.
>>When you write your letter to them, how are you going to ask them to make anything on your list? They don't make mice, keyboards, motherboards, office software, or Firewire built in (on a compariable consumer machine)?<<
I loved my iPod on my PC first. $35 3 Firewire 2 USB 2.0 ports. Taht's a whole different, story. There are those who want a bare-bones PowerMac for just such easy to implement consumer coponents.
>>Apple has created a experince with there computers and software. When people see a Apple computer/ipod/OSX, they are in awe.<<
Awe is a little strong, but I do "love" my iPod. But not the new one ;>
Fortunately for Apple there's no competitor better than or as good as my current 5G.
I'll will, but I've done no work today thanks to this thread. I'll keep my Mac dreams to myself next time. I'll answer you later. Just promise not to give me the pro/consumer argument.
BTW, who needs an Infiniti FX 45 when you can get a Toyota Celica? <grin> No, that's not may answer.
-MoganX
52 replies in 4.5 hours.
My hat is off to you
I hope found some of the answers you sought.
52 replies in 4.5 hours.
My hat is off to you
I hope found some of the answers you sought.
NOTE: I POSTED THIS UNDER THE WRONG U/N. I AM REALLY FUNKYWHAT2. NOTICE THIS, PLEASE.
Which is what I said to do. Damn, you're a little whiny one aren't you.
If you want pro speed you need a PRO model. Hence their being considered PRO models. if you want raw power that you can get in a Wintel, get a Wintel. Apple's not going to notice if you didn't buy a computer from them, and we aren't going to care.
Morgan,
Glad to hear your willing to conceed to a few things. Makes for a good debate.
I didn't realise this letter was just to this board because it was addressed to Apple. But lets drop that now.
You said the consumer/pro lines need to mesh. I think from a business standpoint, that will never go away. Reasons why:
You would want apple to have all the high end compents in a box but that would mean there wouldn't be a $799 machine anymore. Having prices like that aren't for the idea of selling a ton of cheap machines. They price it that way so people look at they're system and then hope they'll upgrade to a more expensive machine. From computers to lawnmowers, this is how businesses get you in the door. So, what I'm saying is, Apple and everyone else, need to have the seprate lines.
The bus thing will still be a problem. -
Apple doesn't have the muscle to push ibm or moto around. This is quit relevant as the current moto processors aren't what Apple wants/needs. Trying to push ibm would get you in the same place. Lets just hope, if the ibm 970 is to come, that ibm will increease to power and technology like we want them to. It would be great to not have to talk about how sucky moto is and why we apple geeks are slower than intel.
As for building your own system -
I think you would be in the same boat because your not getting what you need/want. So i still don't think you'll be happy. So buy another imac so you can hang out in here and talk shop (as in, you'll still have a mac to look at and talk about).
As for ipods, I'm getting my first one on Saturday (30 gig from Best Buy) Never touched the new one yet so I'll let you know how it turns out.
Glad to hear your willing to conceed to a few things. Makes for a good debate.
I didn't realise this letter was just to this board because it was addressed to Apple. But lets drop that now.
You said the consumer/pro lines need to mesh. I think from a business standpoint, that will never go away. Reasons why:
You would want apple to have all the high end compents in a box but that would mean there wouldn't be a $799 machine anymore. Having prices like that aren't for the idea of selling a ton of cheap machines. They price it that way so people look at they're system and then hope they'll upgrade to a more expensive machine. From computers to lawnmowers, this is how businesses get you in the door. So, what I'm saying is, Apple and everyone else, need to have the seprate lines.
The bus thing will still be a problem. -
Apple doesn't have the muscle to push ibm or moto around. This is quit relevant as the current moto processors aren't what Apple wants/needs. Trying to push ibm would get you in the same place. Lets just hope, if the ibm 970 is to come, that ibm will increease to power and technology like we want them to. It would be great to not have to talk about how sucky moto is and why we apple geeks are slower than intel.
As for building your own system -
I think you would be in the same boat because your not getting what you need/want. So i still don't think you'll be happy. So buy another imac so you can hang out in here and talk shop (as in, you'll still have a mac to look at and talk about).
As for ipods, I'm getting my first one on Saturday (30 gig from Best Buy) Never touched the new one yet so I'll let you know how it turns out.
i'm a card carrying mensan. are you?
i'm sorry, but the FW800 request puts your post in the garbage IMHO. You tell me ONE thing you will use FW800 for. Planning on using a large RAID? because it's the only device i can think of that would make FW800 useful. You want apple to put a useless feature into a computer which will make it more expensive to produce, and you want them to drop the price? not bloody likely. You obviously have no idea how the business world operates-- and you obviously don't understand the concepts of luxury items and conspicuous consumerism. i'm gonna throw the car thing out again, groan if you will: you will not get BMW to release a cheap car with more features by bitching at them. You will not get a lexus for under $20,000. Accept it and move on. frankly, i think your whining does you a great disservice in the way of reputation here.
pnw
I don't want to void the warranty on the iMac, do you know if an Apple Service Center can do it?
If not, any details on doing it yourself would be appreciated. If for no other reason, I could not find a DVD-R at Best Buy yesterday, +RW out the wazoo.
>>i'm a card carrying mensan. are you? <<
No I'm not, but can you hook me up with Sharon Stone?
>>i'm sorry, but the FW800 request puts your post in the garbage IMHO. You tell me ONE thing you will use FW800 for.<<
Jon this is your answer also. I don't have to have it now. But I will have to have it if/when I purchase another PC in 2k4. And I will, and I will be doing even more stuff that can always be faster.
I do al my DV editing and playback on a Lacie D2 firewire drive on my iMac. I do wait on the HD quite often. It's a soldier and it's quite usable. But, if I buy another iMac in 2k4, I'll need FW800. And yes, i will buy an FW800 external.
I just don't get this. This is like Intel saying we're going to reserve Serial ATA for high end servers. Yes, it will be utilize more and a greater percentage of the time in low cost RAID devices, but hey, destkops will benefit also. You raise the bar to continue generating sales.
No more USB 1.0 chips from Intel. If you never buy a 2.0 device, well, when you do you're ready. So buy a PC and you won't be left behind, within reason of course.
Even when Intel does play the pro/consumer squeeze game, they make sure users can easily upgrade when they catch on and get PO'd.
Enough BS, FP, and PR. Time for some T&A. Have a good weekend all, didn't mean to raise everyones blood pressure.
<<No I'm not, but can you hook me up with Sharon Stone?
>>i'm sorry, but the FW800 request puts your post in the garbage IMHO. You tell me ONE thing you will use FW800 for.<<
Jon this is your answer also. I don't have to have it now. But I will have to have it if/when I purchase another PC in 2k4. And I will, and I will be doing even more stuff that can always be faster.
I do al my DV editing and playback on a Lacie D2 firewire drive on my iMac. I do wait on the HD quite often. It's a soldier and it's quite usable. But, if I buy another iMac in 2k4, I'll need FW800. And yes, i will buy an FW800 external.
I just don't get this. This is like Intel saying we're going to reserve Serial ATA for high end servers. Yes, it will be utilize more and a greater percentage of the time in low cost RAID devices, but hey, destkops will benefit also. You raise the bar to continue generating sales.
No more USB 1.0 chips from Intel. If you never buy a 2.0 device, well, when you do you're ready. So buy a PC and you won't be left behind, within reason of course.
Even when Intel does play the pro/consumer squeeze game, they make sure users can easily upgrade when they catch on and get PO'd.
Enough BS, FP, and PR. Time for some T&A. Have a good weekend all, didn't mean to raise everyones blood pressure.
Just as an FYI if you are having problems or dropped frames the HDD is to blame, not FW. FW400 has more than enough bandwidth to handle DV. In fact, AJA just released a break out box, called Io, that allows you to, among other things, capture 10-bit uncompressed video via a single firewire hookup.
http://www.aja.com/io.htm
Lethal
I don't think any of MorganX's hardware requests are unreasonable at all, the one difference between say an iMac or a brand new Sony (both of which my parents were considering when they were in the market for a new computer) is upgradability.
On the iMac you can upgrade (without voiding the warranty) the RAM, the Airport card and.....and.....well that's about it.
You can technically upgrade the hard drive, optical drive and even the logic board (assuming you could actually find one) but that's about it.
The processor is soldered onto the logic board as is the graphics card.
So is the display, unless you want to try a risky hack to the 17", you can't hook up a monitor with a different resolution that the screen itself and even then you're only limited to a VGA connection, no DVI flat panel here...
If you want Bluetooth on an iMac and you didn't get it installed when you bought it, you have to have this ugly dongle hanging out from a USB port, or how about USB 2.0?
Nada, unless some transformer box that comes out on the market and magically transforms Firewire to USB..
802.11g? (unless it already supports it)
Nope, unless some 3rd party comes out with an adapter that hooks up to the regular Airport slot...
FW 800?
Not a chance in hell unless you can somehow bridge two FW 400 ports together or something...
The arguments against these usually go something like this; are you going to use these technoligies?
"Well....not really..."
So quit your whining and deal with it, go back to a PC, see what we care..!
But that's not really the point now is it?
The point MorganX is trying to make is upgradeability or lack thereof, even though he may never use any of the things that you can currently not upgrade the iMac to, he is stating that he should be able to have the option to if he wishes and I agree with him.
On my parents Sony, even though it was pretty well equipped to begin with, its got a few PCI slots free on it so if we ever decide to put an 802.11g (or even 802.11a) card in it, BAM!
There goes one PCI slot or maybe it can even be external, its already got plenty of USB 2.0 slots open and I wouldn't be suprised to see an external 802.11g/a solution out sometime in the future since there are already plenty of USB 802.11b adapters..
Or what if we decide to get a Bluetooth phone and sync it with our computer?
Okay, that'll still be an ugly USB dongle, blah.
Firewire 800?
BAM! There goes another PCI slot!
Want to upgrade the processor to a 3.06Ghz PIV with Hyperthreading?
Can if we want...
Upgrade the hard drive?
Hell, there's space for at least two, if that damn useles floppy/Memory Stick slot was removed, I'll bet there could be three...
Upgrade the optical drive(s)?
No problem, its got a DVD+/-RW drive so its a bit future proof in that regard but if a faster one comes out, then we can just pop it in without voiding the warranty.
Replace the graphics card?
Nope. no problems here...
And the best part about it is....none of the above will void the warranty (except for maybe the processor)
But the real point of all this is with the Sony it can be upgraded pretty much however we choose, with an iMac we would have been stuck with what it came with and would have had to throw it away/donate it to something/or sell it and get a new one if we wanted some of the latest goodies.
I would like to see a small expandable computer similar to Shuttle Cubes when the 970 boards come around, those things are pretty small but you can fit quite a bit inside and the newest ones don't have the cooling problems that the first revision had, they come with one one full size AGP and one full size PCI slot so you can put whatever graphics card you wish and whatever you want in the second slot.
An Apple version of this would probably be similar (although more stylish) with one AGP and one PCI and while it would be legacy free (unlike the Shuttles which include parallel and serial ports...
) it would have at least one FW 800 port and a couple FW 400 (maybe even one on front?) USB 2.0 (no reason not to unclude it) one space for a 5.25" optical drive, space for at least one 3.5" hard drive and an upgradeable CPU socket.
Granted the small expendable desktop market is a niche right now but its growing fast, Shuttle expects to ship more of its little barebones systems this year than Apple expects to ship Powermacs and that's not including all the other little Shuttle clones out there....
So yeah, I don't think it would be a bad thing if they made the iMac line more upgradeable, it certainly doesn't hurt PC sales and it would lead to longer longetivity and more usablilty when they become older, there's plenty of older iMacs out now that are running 10.2 without any trouble but they could be running it a lot better if they were more upgradeable, and if they don't do that, then I'd like to see a display-less mini-desktop for the geekier group of Mac users who like to tweak and mess with their computers a bit, there's only so much you can do to an iMac....
On the iMac you can upgrade (without voiding the warranty) the RAM, the Airport card and.....and.....well that's about it.
You can technically upgrade the hard drive, optical drive and even the logic board (assuming you could actually find one) but that's about it.
The processor is soldered onto the logic board as is the graphics card.
So is the display, unless you want to try a risky hack to the 17", you can't hook up a monitor with a different resolution that the screen itself and even then you're only limited to a VGA connection, no DVI flat panel here...
If you want Bluetooth on an iMac and you didn't get it installed when you bought it, you have to have this ugly dongle hanging out from a USB port, or how about USB 2.0?
Nada, unless some transformer box that comes out on the market and magically transforms Firewire to USB..
802.11g? (unless it already supports it)
Nope, unless some 3rd party comes out with an adapter that hooks up to the regular Airport slot...
FW 800?
Not a chance in hell unless you can somehow bridge two FW 400 ports together or something...
The arguments against these usually go something like this; are you going to use these technoligies?
"Well....not really..."
So quit your whining and deal with it, go back to a PC, see what we care..!
But that's not really the point now is it?
The point MorganX is trying to make is upgradeability or lack thereof, even though he may never use any of the things that you can currently not upgrade the iMac to, he is stating that he should be able to have the option to if he wishes and I agree with him.
On my parents Sony, even though it was pretty well equipped to begin with, its got a few PCI slots free on it so if we ever decide to put an 802.11g (or even 802.11a) card in it, BAM!
There goes one PCI slot or maybe it can even be external, its already got plenty of USB 2.0 slots open and I wouldn't be suprised to see an external 802.11g/a solution out sometime in the future since there are already plenty of USB 802.11b adapters..
Or what if we decide to get a Bluetooth phone and sync it with our computer?
Okay, that'll still be an ugly USB dongle, blah.
Firewire 800?
BAM! There goes another PCI slot!
Want to upgrade the processor to a 3.06Ghz PIV with Hyperthreading?
Can if we want...
Upgrade the hard drive?
Hell, there's space for at least two, if that damn useles floppy/Memory Stick slot was removed, I'll bet there could be three...
Upgrade the optical drive(s)?
No problem, its got a DVD+/-RW drive so its a bit future proof in that regard but if a faster one comes out, then we can just pop it in without voiding the warranty.
Replace the graphics card?
Nope. no problems here...
And the best part about it is....none of the above will void the warranty (except for maybe the processor)
But the real point of all this is with the Sony it can be upgraded pretty much however we choose, with an iMac we would have been stuck with what it came with and would have had to throw it away/donate it to something/or sell it and get a new one if we wanted some of the latest goodies.
I would like to see a small expandable computer similar to Shuttle Cubes when the 970 boards come around, those things are pretty small but you can fit quite a bit inside and the newest ones don't have the cooling problems that the first revision had, they come with one one full size AGP and one full size PCI slot so you can put whatever graphics card you wish and whatever you want in the second slot.
An Apple version of this would probably be similar (although more stylish) with one AGP and one PCI and while it would be legacy free (unlike the Shuttles which include parallel and serial ports...
Granted the small expendable desktop market is a niche right now but its growing fast, Shuttle expects to ship more of its little barebones systems this year than Apple expects to ship Powermacs and that's not including all the other little Shuttle clones out there....
So yeah, I don't think it would be a bad thing if they made the iMac line more upgradeable, it certainly doesn't hurt PC sales and it would lead to longer longetivity and more usablilty when they become older, there's plenty of older iMacs out now that are running 10.2 without any trouble but they could be running it a lot better if they were more upgradeable, and if they don't do that, then I'd like to see a display-less mini-desktop for the geekier group of Mac users who like to tweak and mess with their computers a bit, there's only so much you can do to an iMac....
I agree with MorganX that apple needs to get at least semi-competitive with PC Technology to keep users. The pro models should have ALL of the high-end features in the market. The iMac is a consumer model and doesn't need upgradability BUT they need to get the performance issues down. If Apple can't convince me that their performance, technology, and price combonation doesn't make them a dying platform, it will be hard to justify investing any more money in it. I love apple and have been a devoted user, but I AM NOT AN UNCONDITIONAL CONSUMER and I will not invest anymore money in Apple hardware or software unless they can prove to me that they still have viability in the computer market. It's looking more and more like they don't.
[edit: I don't really care which way they go, but we need either competitive performance, competitive tchnology or competitive pricing to remain a viable platform --and The MacRumors user base doesn't make a very big consumer base; The number of "Mac Faithful" is dwindling at an alarming rate.]
[edit: I don't really care which way they go, but we need either competitive performance, competitive tchnology or competitive pricing to remain a viable platform --and The MacRumors user base doesn't make a very big consumer base; The number of "Mac Faithful" is dwindling at an alarming rate.]
i know it's an old comment, but:
iMovie and iDVD run about 20% the speed of FCP3 and DVDSP 1.5 on my quicksilver. program complexity is not necessarilly an indication of speed. i would agree, however, that idvd 3 is painfully slow.
iMovie and iDVD run about 20% the speed of FCP3 and DVDSP 1.5 on my quicksilver. program complexity is not necessarilly an indication of speed. i would agree, however, that idvd 3 is painfully slow.
go, stay, we love you anyways....
Morgan-
going to Windows is a choice we all must struggle with. For me, OS X , The designs of the hardware ( and yes, the new chips coming sound NICE) are MORE than enough to stay far away from windows- For you, it seems like you have a more specific list-- I for one think that they will probably exceed your performance expectations ( But maybe not by using a specific hardware mix that you are mentioning)
I Agree that soon we will see a fairly noticeable mass exodus to apple gear from the pc side ( although 25% in two years might be a little ambitious) , but I disagree they need to leave margin and go to volume- That is the way of Dell and wintel overall--- I think they keep responsibly lowering pricing and make up margin on media services, But keep their high margins- That is the reason they can afford R&D, slow periods, wartime, stock market crashes and the rest- I for one think they deserve a third for the product they sell, so paying them 28 or so percent makes me feel like I'm getting a bargain---javascript:smilie('')
As always, my 2 cents---
Morgan-
going to Windows is a choice we all must struggle with. For me, OS X , The designs of the hardware ( and yes, the new chips coming sound NICE) are MORE than enough to stay far away from windows- For you, it seems like you have a more specific list-- I for one think that they will probably exceed your performance expectations ( But maybe not by using a specific hardware mix that you are mentioning)
I Agree that soon we will see a fairly noticeable mass exodus to apple gear from the pc side ( although 25% in two years might be a little ambitious) , but I disagree they need to leave margin and go to volume- That is the way of Dell and wintel overall--- I think they keep responsibly lowering pricing and make up margin on media services, But keep their high margins- That is the reason they can afford R&D, slow periods, wartime, stock market crashes and the rest- I for one think they deserve a third for the product they sell, so paying them 28 or so percent makes me feel like I'm getting a bargain---javascript:smilie('
')As always, my 2 cents---
apple does listen...
you know what, everything that I had requested on the feedback reports is now on the new generation iPods.. So, apple actually does listen to us...
and what morganX did is quite intresting by the way...
to the buddy talking about bluetooth keyboard: man, I really do want bluetooth keyboard and mouse!! and i can pay them a 100$ is released.. and I agree about one-click mice of apple.. they should release 2 buttons, even 3-4 button ones, just like micro$oft do...
whatever... in my opinion, morganX is in the right way, just let apple be no1!...
you know what, everything that I had requested on the feedback reports is now on the new generation iPods.. So, apple actually does listen to us...
and what morganX did is quite intresting by the way...
to the buddy talking about bluetooth keyboard: man, I really do want bluetooth keyboard and mouse!! and i can pay them a 100$ is released.. and I agree about one-click mice of apple.. they should release 2 buttons, even 3-4 button ones, just like micro$oft do...
whatever... in my opinion, morganX is in the right way, just let apple be no1!...
vniow,
First:
I hope that "thing" you created isn't your baby. YIKES!!!
Second:
I think everyone needs to understand something. The imac and ibook are not computers that people will be upgrading. Even if they were, people still wouldn't do it. Why? Because the people that buy them have no inkling to do so. Yes, there are a few who have purchased it that may want a new hard drive in the next couple years but, in the numbers game, I bet 95 - 98% of people buying these systems have no desire to upgrade except for buying a new system when the time comes. So, as Apple Computer, why would you put resources into developing something that only 2 - 5% of the people want?
As for your parents Sony. I'll bet the only time that thing gets upgraded, if at all, will be performed by you. Your parents aren't going to do it. This is exactly who the imac/ibook are targeted too.
If you want the ability to upgrade, you should be looking at the powermac. If you like the imac for looks and what ever, I understand why you wouldn't want the powerbook. If its for $$, then you're out of luck. But what are your alternatives? Gateway Profile?
Or, another way to look at it, you can upgrade the imac. New hardrive, go get one and put it in or get an external. More ram, go get the biggest one you can stick in there. Its not sold as a power machine so having tons of ram will never be an option nor should it be. Graphics card, I'm not sure so I won't comment. There you go, computer upgraded.
Thats all for this week
First:
I hope that "thing" you created isn't your baby. YIKES!!!
Second:
I think everyone needs to understand something. The imac and ibook are not computers that people will be upgrading. Even if they were, people still wouldn't do it. Why? Because the people that buy them have no inkling to do so. Yes, there are a few who have purchased it that may want a new hard drive in the next couple years but, in the numbers game, I bet 95 - 98% of people buying these systems have no desire to upgrade except for buying a new system when the time comes. So, as Apple Computer, why would you put resources into developing something that only 2 - 5% of the people want?
As for your parents Sony. I'll bet the only time that thing gets upgraded, if at all, will be performed by you. Your parents aren't going to do it. This is exactly who the imac/ibook are targeted too.
If you want the ability to upgrade, you should be looking at the powermac. If you like the imac for looks and what ever, I understand why you wouldn't want the powerbook. If its for $$, then you're out of luck. But what are your alternatives? Gateway Profile?
Or, another way to look at it, you can upgrade the imac. New hardrive, go get one and put it in or get an external. More ram, go get the biggest one you can stick in there. Its not sold as a power machine so having tons of ram will never be an option nor should it be. Graphics card, I'm not sure so I won't comment. There you go, computer upgraded.
Thats all for this week
Ok, the MorganX said what he wanted, and this degenerated in to a debate about his wishlist. But he also asked others to put what they wanted, so I'm not saying another word about MorganX's wish list. Here's what *I'd* (realistically) like by mid 2004 from apple (I'd hope a little more by the end of the year, so I'm thinking a year or a little more from right now):
I use an ibook, so I'll direct my comments there.
1) 1.4 Ghz Gobi G3 or better
2) 200 Mhz FSB or better
3) 256 installed ram, one slot open. Ideally more of course, but I said realistic.
4) 64 megs VRAM on a Radeon 9000 or better (9600 would be great, but I suspect that will be seen on the PBs, not the ibooks).
5) option for higher resolution on the 14" model.
6) airport extreme.
7) battery life that is 5-6 hours of REAL use, not under some ideal conditions that never happen.
8) Case that doesn't scratch so darn easily.
9) 2nd firewire 400 port would be nice, as would a 3rd usb, but not a big deal.
Ok, I think that's it. I don't care a bit about bluetooth or firewire 800. I also don't want to hear how the G3 is dead, 'cause when you see a 1.4 Ghz or better with a 200 mhz fsb or better, I think you'll see just how alive it can be.
If prices could stay constant with these improvements I would be one extremely happy customer. This is my wishlist; it's what would make a difference to ME. Maybe these features aren't practical for other ibook users, or maybe they want things I don't. Frankly, I don't care. Let 'em make their own lists. These are the ibook improvements that I think are possible and that would tempt me to buy another one (not as opposed to switching, as opposed to sticking with my current ibook). How about enough with MorganX's list? How about your lists?
I use an ibook, so I'll direct my comments there.
1) 1.4 Ghz Gobi G3 or better
2) 200 Mhz FSB or better
3) 256 installed ram, one slot open. Ideally more of course, but I said realistic.
4) 64 megs VRAM on a Radeon 9000 or better (9600 would be great, but I suspect that will be seen on the PBs, not the ibooks).
5) option for higher resolution on the 14" model.
6) airport extreme.
7) battery life that is 5-6 hours of REAL use, not under some ideal conditions that never happen.
8) Case that doesn't scratch so darn easily.
9) 2nd firewire 400 port would be nice, as would a 3rd usb, but not a big deal.
Ok, I think that's it. I don't care a bit about bluetooth or firewire 800. I also don't want to hear how the G3 is dead, 'cause when you see a 1.4 Ghz or better with a 200 mhz fsb or better, I think you'll see just how alive it can be.
If prices could stay constant with these improvements I would be one extremely happy customer. This is my wishlist; it's what would make a difference to ME. Maybe these features aren't practical for other ibook users, or maybe they want things I don't. Frankly, I don't care.
Let 'em make their own lists. These are the ibook improvements that I think are possible and that would tempt me to buy another one (not as opposed to switching, as opposed to sticking with my current ibook). How about enough with MorganX's list? How about your lists?If you don't like the mouse three words: Logtech USB mouse. I have one and the 2 buton feture works fine on it.
Every reseller throws in from 256MB to 512MB of extra RAM depending on the model. I got my iBook with 384 MB RAM, preinstalled. Not to mention a printer free after rebate.
Originally posted by QCassidy352
Ok, the MorganX said what he wanted, and this degenerated in to a debate about his wishlist. But he also asked others to put what they wanted, so I'm not saying another word about MorganX's wish list. Here's what *I'd* (realistically) like by mid 2004 from apple (I'd hope a little more by the end of the year, so I'm thinking a year or a little more from right now):
I use an ibook, so I'll direct my comments there.
1) 1.4 Ghz Gobi G3 or better
2) 200 Mhz FSB or better
3) 256 installed ram, one slot open. Ideally more of course, but I said realistic.
4) 64 megs VRAM on a Radeon 9000 or better (9600 would be great, but I suspect that will be seen on the PBs, not the ibooks).
5) option for higher resolution on the 14" model.
6) airport extreme.
7) battery life that is 5-6 hours of REAL use, not under some ideal conditions that never happen.
8) Case that doesn't scratch so darn easily.
9) 2nd firewire 400 port would be nice, as would a 3rd usb, but not a big deal.
Ok, I think that's it. I don't care a bit about bluetooth or firewire 800. I also don't want to hear how the G3 is dead, 'cause when you see a 1.4 Ghz or better with a 200 mhz fsb or better, I think you'll see just how alive it can be.
If prices could stay constant with these improvements I would be one extremely happy customer. This is my wishlist; it's what would make a difference to ME. Maybe these features aren't practical for other ibook users, or maybe they want things I don't. Frankly, I don't care.
Once again, I think this is very doable by the end of next year. 1 and a half years is a long time in the computer industry, even by Apple's slowed-down standards. I think the release of the 970 will usher in an era of rapid change. The 1.4 GHz Gobi and 200MHz FSB are definitely possible. The video card is definitely possible (after all, the Radeon 7500 32MB was considered a high-end desktop card just a year and a half before I got my iBook). Battery life will definitely be increased - that's an area of a lot of innovation right now.
My wishlist would look like ours except I do want Bluetooth. Once quality Bluetooth stereo headphones become a reality, I want to be able to use them with my iBook.
C'mon people, have some faith! I think most of the stuff on these wishlists are quite reasonable within a year and a half timeframe.
First off Vnoiw and Morgan...
A sony desktop most likely is NOT processor upgradable. The OEMs design their motherboards to restrict this activity so that you'll go out and buy a new machine.
The iMac should only be compared to the all-in-one systems offered by Gateway and Sony. They should not be compared to machines that are capable of being upgraded. If you want upgradable macs you get the powermac, that's just the game plan. Although I would love to see a PCMCIA card slot on the iMac/eMac because it would have some limited expansion but not for those not comfortable opening the hood.
With that said...
Processor upgradable... NO, not the point.
970.... possibly
More Ram... possibly
bigger HD... for sure
Faster superdrive... likely
19" display... doubtful
FW800... Maybe, it's not even on all the pbooks yet...
Bluetooth... a very good chance
Ever since I got my own computer I was looking for some way not to use windows. I found it with the mac and I'm happy with it because although it's not the fastest machine on earth, it's fast enough and it works. People who are ultra picky and need to upgrade and have max performance are a nich crowd. Even the PC OEMs don't really service this crowd other than Alienware. For the most part if you want super fast and ultra upgradable you have to build your own.
A sony desktop most likely is NOT processor upgradable. The OEMs design their motherboards to restrict this activity so that you'll go out and buy a new machine.
The iMac should only be compared to the all-in-one systems offered by Gateway and Sony. They should not be compared to machines that are capable of being upgraded. If you want upgradable macs you get the powermac, that's just the game plan. Although I would love to see a PCMCIA card slot on the iMac/eMac because it would have some limited expansion but not for those not comfortable opening the hood.
With that said...
Processor upgradable... NO, not the point.
970.... possibly
More Ram... possibly
bigger HD... for sure
Faster superdrive... likely
19" display... doubtful
FW800... Maybe, it's not even on all the pbooks yet...
Bluetooth... a very good chance
Ever since I got my own computer I was looking for some way not to use windows. I found it with the mac and I'm happy with it because although it's not the fastest machine on earth, it's fast enough and it works. People who are ultra picky and need to upgrade and have max performance are a nich crowd. Even the PC OEMs don't really service this crowd other than Alienware. For the most part if you want super fast and ultra upgradable you have to build your own.
morgan, i understand what you're trying to say, however Apple will never do all that. It's totally unrealistic compared to everything that Apple has done in the past few years. If you like the Mac so much but think that Apple is very uncompetitive, why don't you just use a Mac and a PC at the same time? I like what Apple has to offer in the Power Macs and I like to build my own custom PC's. Get the best of two worlds Morgan and stop bitching about Apple.
Hee hee...
The iBook I can understand, people pay a premium for portability when they want a notebook so upgrade options are limited in this arena (although the Pismos are pretty upgradeable as far as notebooks go so it doesn't have to be that way..) but the iMac is a desktop and people are already paying a premium for it and that's for the software suite appatently, the hardware is way behind compared to similar PCs at similar (or even cheaper) prices...
But the difference between the iMacs and comparable PCs is even if the PC comes with not-too-up-to-date hardware its as simple as adding a card or whatever, not too difficult, even the owner's manuals tell you how to do a lot of the upgrades so if you've ever used a screwdriver before, chances are you can upgrade the computer.
You'd be suprised how many people use the extra PCI slots in PCs, I don't know a simple PC owner that hasn't already used at least one or will sometime in the future, mostly they do it to get the latest goodies (like Firewire for example) that didn't come with it by default and if they don't install it themselves, they'll have the local computer geek do it for them (there's one in every town)
But most of the upgrades come when the computer is getting out of date or parts that are not under warranty fail or something but at least they don't have to spend another $1800 or so on a brand new computer yet!
Actually my dad will likely do any upgrades to it when the time comes (he is the Cisco engineer after all) and my sister is starting to learn a little about computers so maybe she'll do something to it in the future, I dunno..
The Powermac, are you kidding?
For the same price as the 1Ghz Powermac the Sony came with a DVD+/-RW drive, twice the RAM, 20GB bigger hard drive, 2.4Ghz PIV w/533Mhz bus and a TV tuner/AV input card.
Granted the software bundle is horrible but the hardware is pretty good, I realy like the case, you just pop off one of the side panels and there's all the insides, no screws to mess around with or anything and all the components are well organized.
The iMac we configured was too expensive but the eMac was priced just right, but it also had much inferior hardware plus an included display which was redundant since we already had a 17" monitor so that (and some other reasons, upgradeability certainly didn't hurt) we went for the Sony instead of a Mac of any type.
Voids warranty.
External ones are about $80-100 more expensive on the average, if you want USB along with Firewire for your external its going to be on the higher side...
More ram, go get the biggest one you can stick in there. Its not sold as a power machine so having tons of ram will never be an option nor should it be. Graphics card, I'm not sure so I won't comment. There you go, computer upgraded.
Thats all for this week
Graphics card is soldred onto the logic board, I've seen the motherboard by itself (in a service manual) and the graphics card was integrated with the logic board.
And what about an optical drive?
If I want to use iDVD, I have to take it apart (voiding the warranty like I would if I were to replace the hard drive) which is not an easy procedure from what I've seen in the service manuals, replace the drive and put it back together again, hoping I don't lose any of the little screws..
I could buy an external one which would probably more more expensive but definately more convienent but wait, iDVD doesn't work with external drives
And I'm not talking about all the other things that you're stuck with too like FW 400 and 802.11g for example, no chance of adding those to a brand new iMac...
Anyhoo, the point I'm trying to make here is the lack of upgradeability in the so-called consumer line is a turn off for a lot of PC users who are intrested in the Mac but don't want to pay too much for a tower and like the option (even if they never touch the inside) to upgrade their PCs if they so wish, and I believe if Apple either added more upgradeability to the i/eMac or introduced something similar to a Shuttle cube, they would bring in a more varied userbase that the typical tweakaphobic cost conscious consumer, the Cube hit a nerve with a lot of users because of its innovative design and upgradeability options but the price tag was a major turnoff, the Shuttle cubes expanded on the small form factor idea that Apple first set foot in and improved on it in a number of ways, a full size AGP and PCI slot are the biggest ones.
And they're being quite sucessful at it I may add.