LEOMODE

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jun 14, 2009
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Southern California
Hi, thinking about upgrading to Catalina with 5700XT from my setup in my signature, and I was curious on the following:

1) I know OpenCore allows boot screen, but does DosDude allow it too?
2) Would people install both? Or if just one or the other, why would people choose one over the other?
3) If I upgrade to Catalina using either OpenCore and DosDude, if I change my CPU tray to 12 core (same firmware same compatibility one), would I have any issue?
4) Can I use Boot Camp with either OpenCore/DosDude without any problems?

Thanks in advance!
 
Last edited:

tsialex

macrumors G3
Jun 13, 2016
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Hi, thinking about upgrading to Catalina with 5700XT from my setup in my signature, and I was curious on the following:

1) I know OpenCore allows boot screen, but does DosDude allow it too?
2) Would people install both? Or if just one or the other, why would people choose one over the other?
3) If I upgrade to Catalina using either OpenCore and DosDude, if I change my CPU tray to 12 core (same firmware same compatibility one), would I have any issue?
4) Can I use Boot Camp with either OpenCore/DosDude without any problems?

Thanks in advance!
1) GOP boot picker is a OpenCore resource only. Dosdude hacked install won't have pre-boot configuration support with PC GPUs.
2) People that don't want to learn how to use OpenCore choose hacked installs. You can install both, but I don't see why you would use OpenCore and hacked installs at the same time. Btw, software updates don't work with hacked installs, only OpenCore vanilla installs.
3) Don't matter at all, CPU trays are interchangeable.
4) OpenCore only supports UEFI Windows installs, MP5,1 Bootcamp is CSM/BIOS, but you can still use BootCamp drivers with it.
 
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LEOMODE

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jun 14, 2009
359
20
Southern California
1) GOP boot picker is a OpenCore resource only. Dosdude hacked install won't have pre-boot configuration support with PC GPUs.
2) People that don't want to learn how to use OpenCore choose hacked installs. You can install both, but I don't see why you would use OpenCore and hacked installs at the same time. Btw, software updates don't work with hacked installs, only OpenCore vanilla installs.
3) Don't matter at all, CPU trays are interchangeable.
4) OpenCore only supports UEFI Windows installs, MP5,1 Bootcamp is CSM/BIOS, but you can still use BootCamp drivers with it.

Appreciate it for a thorough and easy to understand response. One follow-up question regarding 4) for Boot Camp is - as I'm not really familiar with this - what is UEFI Windows install vs normal Apple supported Boot Camp install? Just like how I'm using Boot Camp, are you saying that will not be possible (by being able to boot from either Windows or Mac, and within Windows or Mac I can switch to the other OS using either Boot Camp manager or Bootchamp)?

Thanks.
 

tsialex

macrumors G3
Jun 13, 2016
9,255
9,964
Appreciate it for a thorough and easy to understand response. One follow-up question regarding 4) for Boot Camp is - as I'm not really familiar with this - what is UEFI Windows install vs normal Apple supported Boot Camp install? Just like how I'm using Boot Camp, are you saying that will not be possible (by being able to boot from either Windows or Mac, and within Windows or Mac I can switch to the other OS using either Boot Camp manager or Bootchamp)?

Thanks.
Windows can be installed to UEFI PCs or BIOS PCs, each install is different, the way you install is different and the Windows installs behave differently, said that:

  • MP5,1 Bootcamp is a Windows BIOS/CSM install.
  • MP5,1 Bootcamp only works up to HighSierra, Apple removed it since Mojave.
  • Windows BIOS/CSM installs are made from DVDs, Windows UEFI installs are made from USB.
  • OpenCore supports only UEFI Windows installs.
  • Even without any BootCamp drivers, you can use OpenCore BootPicker/BootSelector to boot macOS/Windows.
  • AFAIK, Bootchamp is not updated since 2015 and stopped working with APFS disks.
 
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LEOMODE

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jun 14, 2009
359
20
Southern California
Windows can be installed to UEFI PCs or BIOS PCs, each install is different, the way you install is different and the Windows installs behave differently, said that:

  • MP5,1 Bootcamp is a Windows BIOS/CSM install.
  • MP5,1 Bootcamp only works up to HighSierra, Apple removed it since Mojave.
  • Windows BIOS/CSM installs are made from DVDs, Windows UEFI installs are made from USB.
  • OpenCore supports only UEFI Windows installs.
  • Even without any BootCamp drivers, you can use OpenCore BootPicker/BootSelector to boot macOS/Windows.
  • AFAIK, Bootchamp is not updated since 2015 and stopped working with APFS disks.

Thanks I understand now. Yes, I noticed Bootchamp didn't work even in Sierra as I remember.
So even when I install Windows with OpenCore using a USB drive, I still will be able to install Windows/Boot Camp on my HDD or SSD (SATA 2 or PCIE) and will be able to boot my Windows just like before (both from Boot Picker and both OS's) with Apple Boot Camp in Catalina?

Thanks a lot!
 

tsialex

macrumors G3
Jun 13, 2016
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Thanks I understand now. Yes, I noticed Bootchamp didn't work even in Sierra as I remember.
So even when I install Windows with OpenCore using a USB drive, I still will be able to install Windows/Boot Camp on my HDD or SSD (SATA 2 or PCIE) and will be able to boot my Windows just like before (both from Boot Picker and both OS's) with Apple Boot Camp in Catalina?

Thanks a lot!
No. MP5,1 BootCamp is BIOS/CSM. You can't boot a BIOS/CSM Windows install with OpenCore.
 

LEOMODE

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jun 14, 2009
359
20
Southern California
No. MP5,1 BootCamp is BIOS/CSM. You can't boot a BIOS/CSM Windows install with OpenCore.

Ok wait, so maybe I need to rephrase the question. So

Former) if I install Windows using UEFI USB on my OpenCore installed Catalina, can I install that Windows on my HDD or SSD, and boot that Windows from either Mac OS or boot Mac OS from Windows, or

Latter) are you saying once I install Windows using UEFI USB on my OpenCore installed Catalina, I can only boot either Mac OS or Windows by going into Boot Picker?

The latter is still fine as long as I can boot either OS's using a Boot picker. Then I don't need a Boot Camp Control Panel on Windows or Windows boot option on Mac OS Startup Disk I guess.

It looks like you mentioned it like this so that means it is the latter:

  • Even without any BootCamp drivers, you can use OpenCore BootPicker/BootSelector to boot macOS/Windows.
 
Last edited:

tsialex

macrumors G3
Jun 13, 2016
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Ok wait, so maybe I need to rephrase the question. So if I install Windows using UEFI USB on my OpenCore installed Catalina, can I install that Windows on my HDD or SSD, and boot that Windows from either Mac OS or boot Mac OS from Windows, or are you saying once I install install Windows using UEFI USB on my OpenCore installed Catalina, I can only boot either Mac OS or Windows by going into Boot Picker?

The latter is still fine as long as I can boot either OS's using a Boot picker. Then I don't need a Boot Camp Control Panel on Windows or Windows boot on Startup Disk I guess.
Windows UEFI install will appear at the OpenCore BootPicker/BootSelector and can be selected anytime you want to boot it. Please re-read what I wrote, all pertinent info is there.
 

LEOMODE

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jun 14, 2009
359
20
Southern California
Windows UEFI install will appear at the OpenCore BootPicker/BootSelector and can be selected anytime you want to boot it. Please re-read what I wrote, all pertinent info is there.

Gotcha,

Then I guess Parallels using a Boot Camp partition not work on Catalina for 5,1 then?
 

tsialex

macrumors G3
Jun 13, 2016
9,255
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Gotcha,

Then I guess Parallels using a Boot Camp partition not work on Catalina for 5,1 then?
Don't know, I only use VMware Fusion. You have to ask someone that uses it. OpenCore will not load a CSM Windows install.
 
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LEOMODE

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jun 14, 2009
359
20
Southern California
Don't know, I only use VMware Fusion. You have to ask someone that uses it. OpenCore will not load a CSM Windows install.

Gotcha...I never used Parallels before so I didn't even know they started a function where you can call off Boot Camp partition. I think this is fairly new...
 

mode11

macrumors 6502
Jul 14, 2015
411
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London
Don't know, I only use VMware Fusion. You have to ask someone that uses it. OpenCore will not load a CSM Windows install.

Did you install UEFI Windows alongside OpenCore? If so, does VMware load this install with no problems?
 

tsialex

macrumors G3
Jun 13, 2016
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Did you install UEFI Windows alongside OpenCore? If so, does VMware load this install with no problems?
Raw disk access? It's a hit or miss with UEFI Windows installs with VMWare Fusion and MP5,1, the problem is Fusion expects CSM installs with a MP5,1. I don't need raw disk access for Windows, so I never really investigated what needs to be made for it to work, maybe someone knows what's need to be done.
 

mode11

macrumors 6502
Jul 14, 2015
411
165
London
Thanks tsialex. In post 3082 on the OpenCore thread, cdf gave me some simple instructions for (hopefully) getting this working with Parallels, which I believe has a similar issue. I'll follow them once I've backed up my bootrom. Could be of interest if you ever wanted / needed to boot Windows raw from macOS.
 

startergo

macrumors 68040
Sep 20, 2018
3,565
1,591
Virtual box raw disk access is working good and it is consistent with UEFI and CSM Windows installs.
 

fireheadman

macrumors member
Oct 12, 2018
47
16
@tsialex
I apologize in advance for neco'ing an old thread.... but what you mentioned in this is valuable to me...

I'm wanting to squeeze a couple more years out of my MacPro 5,1. I'm currently running Mojave on a PCIe/NVMe drive (slot 4) and I have Windows 10 that boots from a m.2 Sata(OS)/NVMe(data) combo drive (slot 3). I was unable to boot Win10 from a NVMe. I use the startup disk option to switch to windows and the bootcamp option in windows to get back to Mojave (that has worked great for years)

If I used OpenCore to upgrade Mojave.... would I be able to do some type of conversion on the Windows 10 disk from CSM to UEFI ? Or would I be looking at a complete rebuild of Win10? I use Win10 more as a gaming rig with my Vega 64.
 

tsialex

macrumors G3
Jun 13, 2016
9,255
9,964
@tsialex
I apologize in advance for neco'ing an old thread.... but what you mentioned in this is valuable to me...

I'm wanting to squeeze a couple more years out of my MacPro 5,1. I'm currently running Mojave on a PCIe/NVMe drive (slot 4) and I have Windows 10 that boots from a m.2 Sata(OS)/NVMe(data) combo drive (slot 3). I was unable to boot Win10 from a NVMe. I use the startup disk option to switch to windows and the bootcamp option in windows to get back to Mojave (that has worked great for years)

If I used OpenCore to upgrade Mojave.... would I be able to do some type of conversion on the Windows 10 disk from CSM to UEFI ? Or would I be looking at a complete rebuild of Win10? I use Win10 more as a gaming rig with my Vega 64.
There are tools to convert CSM to UEFI Windows 10 installs, but I never used any. I don’t like the way Windows 10 update itself, so I prefer to re-install every year when major releases are released - anyway, use what you think it’s best for you.
 
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