MP 1,1-5,1 OpenCore vs DosDude

[LEOMODE]

Hi, thinking about upgrading to Catalina with 5700XT from my setup in my signature, and I was curious on the following:

1) I know OpenCore allows boot screen, but does DosDude allow it too?
2) Would people install both? Or if just one or the other, why would people choose one over the other?
3) If I upgrade to Catalina using either OpenCore and DosDude, if I change my CPU tray to 12 core (same firmware same compatibility one), would I have any issue?
4) Can I use Boot Camp with either OpenCore/DosDude without any problems?

Thanks in advance!

 

[tsialex]

Hi, thinking about upgrading to Catalina with 5700XT from my setup in my signature, and I was curious on the following:

1) I know OpenCore allows boot screen, but does DosDude allow it too?
2) Would people install both? Or if just one or the other, why would people choose one over the other?
3) If I upgrade to Catalina using either OpenCore and DosDude, if I change my CPU tray to 12 core (same firmware same compatibility one), would I have any issue?
4) Can I use Boot Camp with either OpenCore/DosDude without any problems?

Thanks in advance!

1) GOP boot picker is a OpenCore resource only. Dosdude hacked install won't have pre-boot configuration support with PC GPUs.
2) People that don't want to learn how to use OpenCore choose hacked installs. You can install both, but I don't see why you would use OpenCore and hacked installs at the same time. Btw, software updates don't work with hacked installs, only OpenCore vanilla installs.
3) Don't matter at all, CPU trays are interchangeable.
4) OpenCore only supports UEFI Windows installs, MP5,1 Bootcamp is CSM/BIOS, but you can still use BootCamp drivers with it.

 

[LEOMODE]

1) GOP boot picker is a OpenCore resource only. Dosdude hacked install won't have pre-boot configuration support with PC GPUs.
2) People that don't want to learn how to use OpenCore choose hacked installs. You can install both, but I don't see why you would use OpenCore and hacked installs at the same time. Btw, software updates don't work with hacked installs, only OpenCore vanilla installs.
3) Don't matter at all, CPU trays are interchangeable.
4) OpenCore only supports UEFI Windows installs, MP5,1 Bootcamp is CSM/BIOS, but you can still use BootCamp drivers with it.

Appreciate it for a thorough and easy to understand response. One follow-up question regarding 4) for Boot Camp is - as I'm not really familiar with this - what is UEFI Windows install vs normal Apple supported Boot Camp install? Just like how I'm using Boot Camp, are you saying that will not be possible (by being able to boot from either Windows or Mac, and within Windows or Mac I can switch to the other OS using either Boot Camp manager or Bootchamp)?

Thanks.

 

[tsialex]

Appreciate it for a thorough and easy to understand response. One follow-up question regarding 4) for Boot Camp is - as I'm not really familiar with this - what is UEFI Windows install vs normal Apple supported Boot Camp install? Just like how I'm using Boot Camp, are you saying that will not be possible (by being able to boot from either Windows or Mac, and within Windows or Mac I can switch to the other OS using either Boot Camp manager or Bootchamp)?

Thanks.

Windows can be installed to UEFI PCs or BIOS PCs, each install is different, the way you install is different and the Windows installs behave differently, said that:

• MP5,1 Bootcamp is a Windows BIOS/CSM install.
• MP5,1 Bootcamp only works up to HighSierra, Apple removed it since Mojave.
• Windows BIOS/CSM installs are made from DVDs, Windows UEFI installs are made from USB.
• OpenCore supports only UEFI Windows installs.
• Even without any BootCamp drivers, you can use OpenCore BootPicker/BootSelector to boot macOS/Windows.
• AFAIK, Bootchamp is not updated since 2015 and stopped working with APFS disks.

 

[LEOMODE]

Windows can be installed to UEFI PCs or BIOS PCs, each install is different, the way you install is different and the Windows installs behave differently, said that:

• MP5,1 Bootcamp is a Windows BIOS/CSM install.
• MP5,1 Bootcamp only works up to HighSierra, Apple removed it since Mojave.
• Windows BIOS/CSM installs are made from DVDs, Windows UEFI installs are made from USB.
• OpenCore supports only UEFI Windows installs.
• Even without any BootCamp drivers, you can use OpenCore BootPicker/BootSelector to boot macOS/Windows.
• AFAIK, Bootchamp is not updated since 2015 and stopped working with APFS disks.

Thanks I understand now. Yes, I noticed Bootchamp didn't work even in Sierra as I remember.
So even when I install Windows with OpenCore using a USB drive, I still will be able to install Windows/Boot Camp on my HDD or SSD (SATA 2 or PCIE) and will be able to boot my Windows just like before (both from Boot Picker and both OS's) with Apple Boot Camp in Catalina?

Thanks a lot!

 

[tsialex]

Thanks I understand now. Yes, I noticed Bootchamp didn't work even in Sierra as I remember.
So even when I install Windows with OpenCore using a USB drive, I still will be able to install Windows/Boot Camp on my HDD or SSD (SATA 2 or PCIE) and will be able to boot my Windows just like before (both from Boot Picker and both OS's) with Apple Boot Camp in Catalina?

Thanks a lot!

No. MP5,1 BootCamp is BIOS/CSM. You can't boot a BIOS/CSM Windows install with OpenCore.

 

[LEOMODE]

No. MP5,1 BootCamp is BIOS/CSM. You can't boot a BIOS/CSM Windows install with OpenCore.

Ok wait, so maybe I need to rephrase the question. So

Former) if I install Windows using UEFI USB on my OpenCore installed Catalina, can I install that Windows on my HDD or SSD, and boot that Windows from either Mac OS or boot Mac OS from Windows, or

Latter) are you saying once I install Windows using UEFI USB on my OpenCore installed Catalina, I can only boot either Mac OS or Windows by going into Boot Picker?

The latter is still fine as long as I can boot either OS's using a Boot picker. Then I don't need a Boot Camp Control Panel on Windows or Windows boot option on Mac OS Startup Disk I guess.

It looks like you mentioned it like this so that means it is the latter:

• Even without any BootCamp drivers, you can use OpenCore BootPicker/BootSelector to boot macOS/Windows.

 

[tsialex]

Ok wait, so maybe I need to rephrase the question. So if I install Windows using UEFI USB on my OpenCore installed Catalina, can I install that Windows on my HDD or SSD, and boot that Windows from either Mac OS or boot Mac OS from Windows, or are you saying once I install install Windows using UEFI USB on my OpenCore installed Catalina, I can only boot either Mac OS or Windows by going into Boot Picker?

The latter is still fine as long as I can boot either OS's using a Boot picker. Then I don't need a Boot Camp Control Panel on Windows or Windows boot on Startup Disk I guess.

Windows UEFI install will appear at the OpenCore BootPicker/BootSelector and can be selected anytime you want to boot it. Please re-read what I wrote, all pertinent info is there.

 

[LEOMODE]

Windows UEFI install will appear at the OpenCore BootPicker/BootSelector and can be selected anytime you want to boot it. Please re-read what I wrote, all pertinent info is there.

Gotcha,

Then I guess Parallels using a Boot Camp partition not work on Catalina for 5,1 then?

 

[tsialex]

Gotcha,

Then I guess Parallels using a Boot Camp partition not work on Catalina for 5,1 then?

Don't know, I only use VMware Fusion. You have to ask someone that uses it. OpenCore will not load a CSM Windows install.

 

[LEOMODE]

Don't know, I only use VMware Fusion. You have to ask someone that uses it. OpenCore will not load a CSM Windows install.

Gotcha...I never used Parallels before so I didn't even know they started a function where you can call off Boot Camp partition. I think this is fairly new...

 

[mode11]

Don't know, I only use VMware Fusion. You have to ask someone that uses it. OpenCore will not load a CSM Windows install.

Did you install UEFI Windows alongside OpenCore? If so, does VMware load this install with no problems?

 

[tsialex]

Did you install UEFI Windows alongside OpenCore? If so, does VMware load this install with no problems?

Raw disk access? It's a hit or miss with UEFI Windows installs with VMWare Fusion and MP5,1, the problem is Fusion expects CSM installs with a MP5,1. I don't need raw disk access for Windows, so I never really investigated what needs to be made for it to work, maybe someone knows what's need to be done.

 

[mode11]

Thanks tsialex. In post 3082 on the OpenCore thread, cdf gave me some simple instructions for (hopefully) getting this working with Parallels, which I believe has a similar issue. I'll follow them once I've backed up my bootrom. Could be of interest if you ever wanted / needed to boot Windows raw from macOS.

 

[startergo]

Virtual box raw disk access is working good and it is consistent with UEFI and CSM Windows installs.

 

[fireheadman]

@tsialex
I apologize in advance for neco'ing an old thread.... but what you mentioned in this is valuable to me...

I'm wanting to squeeze a couple more years out of my MacPro 5,1. I'm currently running Mojave on a PCIe/NVMe drive (slot 4) and I have Windows 10 that boots from a m.2 Sata(OS)/NVMe(data) combo drive (slot 3). I was unable to boot Win10 from a NVMe. I use the startup disk option to switch to windows and the bootcamp option in windows to get back to Mojave (that has worked great for years)

If I used OpenCore to upgrade Mojave.... would I be able to do some type of conversion on the Windows 10 disk from CSM to UEFI ? Or would I be looking at a complete rebuild of Win10? I use Win10 more as a gaming rig with my Vega 64.

 

[tsialex]

@tsialex
I apologize in advance for neco'ing an old thread.... but what you mentioned in this is valuable to me...

I'm wanting to squeeze a couple more years out of my MacPro 5,1. I'm currently running Mojave on a PCIe/NVMe drive (slot 4) and I have Windows 10 that boots from a m.2 Sata(OS)/NVMe(data) combo drive (slot 3). I was unable to boot Win10 from a NVMe. I use the startup disk option to switch to windows and the bootcamp option in windows to get back to Mojave (that has worked great for years)

If I used OpenCore to upgrade Mojave.... would I be able to do some type of conversion on the Windows 10 disk from CSM to UEFI ? Or would I be looking at a complete rebuild of Win10? I use Win10 more as a gaming rig with my Vega 64.

There are tools to convert CSM to UEFI Windows 10 installs, but I never used any. I don’t like the way Windows 10 update itself, so I prefer to re-install every year when major releases are released - anyway, use what you think it’s best for you.

 

[HanYolo]

I have a cMP 5,1. Recently I installed Catalina using dosdude1 method without problems. Then I purchased a flashed alpine ridge thunderbolt card. The instructions tell me I have to install opencore for thunderbolt to be recognized and to also get hot swap support. Can Opencore be installed on 5,1 Catalina after using dosdude1 method?

 

[Stex]

I have a cMP 5,1. Recently I installed Catalina using dosdude1 method without problems. Then I purchased a flashed alpine ridge thunderbolt card. The instructions tell me I have to install opencore for thunderbolt to be recognized and to also get hot swap support. Can Opencore be installed on 5,1 Catalina after using dosdude1 method?

I would say it is not recommended. The benefit of OpenCore is that allows you to install non-patched "vanilla" macOS in unsupported Macs, and allows you to automatically get incremental updates as well just like a regular macOS install. In your case, it might be better to do a fresh install of Mojave, then install OpenCore, then upgrade Mojave to Catalina or Big Sur. If you'd like to go up to Big Sur, make sure to review the Latebloom thread for additional info on that workaround with 11.3+ boot issues.

 

[Stex]

I would say it is not recommended. The benefit of OpenCore is that allows you to install non-patched "vanilla" macOS in unsupported Macs, and allows you to automatically get incremental updates as well just like a regular macOS install. In your case, it might be better to do a fresh install of Mojave, then install OpenCore, then upgrade Mojave to Catalina or Big Sur. If you'd like to go up to Big Sur, make sure to review the Latebloom thread for additional info on that workaround with 11.3+ boot issues.

@HanYolo More on the above below (posted recently):

OpenCore on the Mac Pro

Yes, the config is perfectly compatible with Catalina. If minimality is your thing, you won't need unfairgva for DRM, but it doesn't hurt to keep it. As mentioned in the guide and pointed out by @PeterHolbrook, you'll have to turn on the VMM flag when you want to receive updates, but Catalina...

forums.macrumors.com

 

[haralds]

Gotcha...I never used Parallels before so I didn't even know they started a function where you can call off Boot Camp partition. I think this is fairly new...

Parallels can load BootCamp. Note that Parallels will still work under Big Sur using their original HyperVisor extension. VMware experts Apple's new hypervisor, which is not supported on the Xeons.
Note I am using BIOS emulation mode. It has worked or a decade, so...