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This could become an interesting case for EU citizen. Apple is likely to block Opera, and Opera is likely to file a complaint about it. And I personally don't see any justification for Apple's "permission" to limit the end-user's choice. Especially for something Microsoft was penalized by the EU legislators.

The only difference I see here is that you have to install it [said product] on an Apple device, but this device is also your property, so that should not matter.
 
I remember reading in a Computer World article that a browser was being backed by the EU. I assumed it was Opera cuz it sure as hell not Firefox.
No, Opera is an independent browser. It pays its own bills, isn't owned by any governments, etc. All the major share holders are companies or individuals. Opera has never received a single dime from the EU.

Apple is likely to block Opera, and Opera is likely to file a complaint about it.
No, they are highly unlikely to file any complaints. If they wanted to, they would have done so a long time ago. One of the Opera execs were interviewed today or yesterday, and when the journalist asked whether they planned to file any complaints, the exec just started laughing. No way were they going to do that. The question was that ridiculous.

Opera has filed exactly one complaint, and that was after more than a decade of trying every other method to make Microsoft stop breaking the law. And when they did file the complaint, they didn't ask for anything for themselves. They refused to accept any money from Microsoft.

You won't find a less litigious company than Opera. But due to all the FUD being generated by Microsoft's PR department they managed to portray Opera as some evil, greedy bastard.

As a matter of fact, even Google has a more litigious history than Opera, since it has filed more than one antitrust complaint against Microsoft, IIRC (both in the US and the EU). Google also jumped on the MS vs. EU case once Opera had taken all the heat by filing the complaint in the first place. So Opera got all the bad PR and FUD, and Google (and Mozilla) just swung in and reaped the benefits.

And I personally don't see any justification for Apple's "permission" to limit the end-user's choice. Especially for something Microsoft was penalized by the EU legislators.
Microsoft is a monopolist, but Apple is not.
 
I would use Opera but they need a lesson in GUI design.

With 10.5 they are moving to cocoa and they have changed the UI quite a lot.

Screen shot 2010-02-11 at 18.10.59.png

Also there are plenty of themes around that you can choose from.


I would point out though, as the screenshot above shows, that 10.5 is in alpha stage and is quite crash happy at this stage.
 
No, they are highly unlikely to file any complaints. If they wanted to, they would have done so a long time ago. One of the Opera execs were interviewed today or yesterday, and when the journalist asked whether they planned to file any complaints, the exec just started laughing. No way were they going to do that. The question was that ridiculous.
So why did Opera develop a browser for the iPhone? To waste money and engineering time, just to have it ignored by Apple? Written off completely before people could even get their hands on it?

I tell you this: It is smart PR work to show people your browser on the iPhone... and then to let Apple block it [make Apple look like a bad apple] so that people who are in fact interested it in, people who want Opera on their iPhone can file complaints... so that Opera can walk away from it with clean hands.

p.s. Microsoft never blocked people from installing any of the available products [browsers] and thus Apple is even worse!
 
I have a question for those that say Opera Mini violates the SDK agreement. Can someone please list the specific points that it violates? I just skim-read the agreement and saw nothing in there regarding Web browsers, despite some claims earlier in this thread that only WebKit-based browsers are allowed.
 
With 10.5 they are moving to cocoa and they have changed the UI quite a lot.

View attachment 214459

Also there are plenty of themes around that you can choose from.


I would point out though, as the screenshot above shows, that 10.5 is in alpha stage and is quite crash happy at this stage.

Wheres the UI Unity?

Wheres the flow, the click. How does it grab your attention without looking nasty?
 
Wheres the UI Unity?

In what way? The UI looks pretty consistent to me at this stage of development. Afterall it is still undergoing a complete overhaul.

Wheres the flow, the click. How does it grab your attention without looking nasty?

If you give it a go there are nice little touches in the way it works that gives you the "flow and click".
 
So why did Opera develop a browser for the iPhone? To waste money and engineering time, just to have it ignored by Apple? Written off completely before people could even get their hands on it?
They developed a browser because that's what they do. They want to be on as many platforms as possible. They also want to be on the iPhone, but they know about Apple's approval process, so they announced it beforehand to use the market in order to prevent Apple from silently rejecting it.

I tell you this: It is smart PR work to show people your browser on the iPhone... and then to let Apple block it [make Apple look like a bad apple] so that people who are in fact interested it in, people who want Opera on their iPhone can file complaints... so that Opera can walk away from it with clean hands.
Please stop making these inane comments. People are not going to "file complaints". It doesn't work like that. Opera knows that Apple didn't break the law, and the only thing they are doing is to create public pressure on Apple.

Opera doesn't want Apple to block it. They want to be on the iPhone, which is the point of all of this.

p.s. Microsoft never blocked people from installing any of the available products [browsers] and thus Apple is even worse!
No, Microsoft had an actual monopoly, which they illegally abused.

Wheres the UI Unity?

Wheres the flow, the click. How does it grab your attention without looking nasty?
It's an early alpha. Work in progress.

What is "UI Unity"?
 
They developed a browser because that's what they do. They want to be on as many platforms as possible. They also want to be on the iPhone,
Nothing new here – I happen to work in the browser industry, for decades already, and my work has had a great influence on the market so yeah, I know a few things. Thanks anyway.

...but they know about Apple's approval process, so they announced it beforehand to use the market in order to prevent Apple from silently rejecting it.
Silly isn't it. I mean that Opera needs to put pressure on Apple in order to get their product on the market. You don't agree with that? I mean if only Apple was a little more open and transparent [about the process] but I guess not.

Please stop making these inane comments.
Listen. I understand that you have your own opinion, which is fine by me, for as long as your respect other people here!

People are not going to "file complaints". It doesn't work like that.
The thing is that people already filed complaints about the lack of "Apple openness" [be it unrelated to Opera] but I am not going to reveal anything here, unless you are Per Hellström in which case you know what I am talking about, and where to find me (next Monday).

Opera knows that Apple didn't break the law, and the only thing they are doing is to create public pressure on Apple.
Which is pretty smart marketing to me.

Opera doesn't want Apple to block it. They want to be on the iPhone, which is the point of all of this.
Choice to me is a good thing, and thus it is a shame that a company like Opera needs to put pressure on Apple this way.

No, Microsoft had an actual monopoly, which they illegally abused.
Sure. Microsoft had a technological advantage over say Netscape (don't get me even started) and they used it against us, like Apple is using their powers now by blocking people from installing software. Not the same things in legal terms, but in the end you as consumer are not allowed to install the things you want to install. That is what counts.

And no, Apple's monopoly isn't even a real monopoly. Not in terms of (EU) law, but that's not the way people look at it. And Apple is made aware of it, prominently, because the number of people who use a jail-broken iPhone and/or iPod Touch is stunningly high.

So why do people resort to jail breaking? Simple. They have no other choice, not when they want to have control over their phone – in the EU the contract owner is the legal owner of a subsidized phone, because you will have to pay for it, until death, to get off of it, and as such can do with it what you want.

Note: In the end it's all about the sentiment, peoples perspective about it. What editors like me and bloggers are going to do with it. And a first (short) article about this can be found over at Register.com and I am sure that more will follow, simply because not too many people like the way things are going right now. Unless you are (working for) Apple of course.
 
The thing is that people already filed complaints about the lack of "Apple openness" [be it unrelated to Opera] but I am not going to reveal anything here, unless you are Per Hellström in which case you know what I am talking about, and where to find me (next Monday).
Who is Per Hellström? Does he work for Opera?

Who has filed complaints?

Opera aren't doing this because they want people to file complaints. They are doing it because they want a piece of the iPhone market. You claimed that Opera wasted their time with this. I pointed out that they didn't. Worst case scenario is Apple rejects Opera and Opera has gotten lots of great PR anyway. But they are doing this because they want to be on the iPhone.
 
Who is Per Hellström? Does he work for Opera?
European commission lawyer, who will reply on behalf of EU commissioner Kroes when you file a antitrust complaint. Which is what some people did.

Who has filed complaints?
EU citizens.

Opera aren't doing this because they want people to file complaints. They are doing it because they want a piece of the iPhone market.
Sure. This is crystal clear to me, but I also keep an eye on the possible side effects, which is exactly what I was referring to.

You claimed that Opera wasted their time with this. I pointed out that they didn't.
I did not. Absolutely not. Please read my question again.

Worst case scenario is Apple rejects Opera and Opera has gotten lots of great PR anyway. But they are doing this because they want to be on the iPhone.
In which case Apple gets bad publicity, and thus people with a substantial AAPL packet (for their retirement for example) will be very interested in how this develops. No matter what people here think.

I for one want Opera on the iPhone, simply because it is the right thing to do. Not because I am going to use it myself because I couldn't care less about anything.

And you may have missed it, but the AAPL dropped 4% on one day, simply because people were disappointed with the iPad. Perfectly showing the impact things can have on peoples retirement plan. Including mine ;)
 
Funny!

Ha, ha great joke... Oh wait you were serious!!!

Yep they will release it as soon as they release an App for customizing your Dell Computer and purchasing it...

AKA I don't see this happening...
 
Sure. This is crystal clear to me, but I also keep an eye on the possible side effects, which is exactly what I was referring to.
My impression of what you wrote was that you were saying that Opera was hoping for someone to file a complaint. That is why I explained that this is not what they are trying to do at all. They don't want any complaints filed. They just want to be on the iPhone.
 
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