Opinions please: HP or XEROX color laser?

[Black&Tan]

..and I'm going to add my 2 cents.

I just spent the better part of a month researching printers, my judging criteria was color accuracy, postscript, networking, and printing quality. I'm a graphic designer by trade, and am doing a lot of freelance work at home, so accuracy and quality is very important to me. Speed is not very important, at this time (I'm coming from an inkjet with Postscript emulation software, that takes forever!).

I looked at HP, but really didn't want to deal with PS emulation. So I really looked at Xerox. We've got a number of them here at work, the Phaser 740, 780 and 6300. They're workhorses, and the 740 and 780 are old enough to REALLY require a service contract. But we also print at least a hundred pages a week through them both.

So I looked at the 6120 and the 8500. I found a local dealer who was willing to remain open late so I can run some color comparisons between the two printers. I also had a "true" printed piece (from a local printer) to compare to the laser runouts. I set both printers to SWOP press emulation and compared the results. The 8500 blues were too yellow, they came out muddy. The 6120 blues were spot on. Both printers had a difficult time with screens of Pantone colors. The text on the 6120 was a bit heavy. The 8500 did have a dot pattern that was discernable upon close examination and there were definite areas on the actual built in test samples where the color was breaking apart. In defence of the 8500, this was a well used unit. I've printed out business card comps with a dark green PMS (on the 6120) and that was more accurate than my inkjet RIP.

In regards to paper options, there were a LOT of pre-set profiles built into the 6120, including multiple paper (government letter??) and envelope sizes. Not sure about the 8500. On both printers, the maximum paper size is legal, 8.5 x 14.

The 6120 has a true resolution of 600 dpi, with software interpolation to 2400dpi. I believe the 8500 is also 600 dpi.

My concern with the 8500 was the solid ink cartidges (or crayons). There are 4 individual cleaning cycles for this printer. That a printer would need 4 different cleaning cycles scares me. Unless you're printing a lot of paper a week, the melted ink could pose a problem. And I did read a few reports of seapages.

Ultimately, I decided that laser was a better choice, based on the number of prints I anticipate doing, the color accuracy, and the printout quality. I bought the 6120 and after using it for a few weeks, I'm very pleased. It's currently networked to an OS9 machine via ethernet, and I had no problems with installation. It will be hooked up to an OSX box shortly, but not yet. I don't anticipate any driver problems at this time, I'm using the aforementioned printers (740, 780) at work with Panther. The printer is a little noisy when printing or cycling down, but at idle, its practically silent.

I hope this helps...

 

[Moof1904]

This is fantastic information. Thank you for the detailed and helpful post. I'm hoping to find a local dealer who will allow me to print some test pages that I've put together.

 

[Black&Tan]

I recommend a high res pdf file (with pictures, photographs and text for output testing), as it should be cross-platform, and have all the required artwork and fonts.

Also, color is very subjective, unless you have a standard to compare it to. So if you have a matchprint or printed piece to proof it against, you'll be in good shape. If you have a relationship with any printers in your area, they may be help you out with this.

 

[Moof1904]

I made a quick dash at lunch to CompUSA and to Fry's (for those of you to whom these names mean anything) and neither of them have Xerox Phasers on display.

Does anyone know a retail storefront that stocks Xerox Phasers? I know a bunch of the mail order places carry them, but retail dealers seem to be scarce...


Edit: Never mind. I went to the Xerox site and they have a link to find a local dealer. Once again, I'm very impressed with the Xerox site.

 

[Black&Tan]

I was equally impressed with my local dealer. Remaining open late so I could run some color tests is definitely noteworthy.

 

[Demon Hunter]

Ultimately, I decided that laser was a better choice, based on the number of prints I anticipate doing, the color accuracy, and the printout quality.

Great information, thank you!

I have a few questions if you don't mind...

• How does the 6120 compare to the 8500 in terms of black text output/quality? Or compared to a 1200 dpi monochrome laser, like the Phaser 3500?
  
• You said the 6120 prints heavy text, which I also read in the Macworld review. Does this look bad? If I'm printing a lot of text, in addition to limited color (like a flyer with black text and one color), would this still be a good option?
  
• What's your average prints per week? The 8500 seems more capable of large output, but I could be wrong. It's hard to tell from the website.

It's very hard to find this information, much less from a Mac user. I really appreciate it!

 

[dvdh]

Did the research on a tabloid colour printer . . .

for an architecture office that I formerly worked in (IKOY Architects) and I looked at colour lasers, production inkjets, and LED printers from Canon, HP, and XEROX. Early on our office ruled out the inkjets based on the cost of volume output and print time delivery. However, for the sake of colour output comparison, we really wanted the something that would gives us the image quality like that of an inkjet (in this case the comparison was against an Epson 2000p). We sent out an bunch of test files to the various dealers with specs for paper compared the prints. In general the HP images were strongly biased to the cyans (had a similar issue the HPs at the university I was a session instructor at). The XEROX (we looked at the Phaser 7300 and 7700) seemed to produce the best colour range and balance on the widest variety of media. The Canons were solid performers as well, but the one (can't remember the model #) in the price range of the Phaser didn't do a full bleed. In the end the decision was to go with the Phaser 7300 based on the colour quality, price point, the capacity to print full bleed.

 

[Black&Tan]

Great information, thank you!

I have a few questions if you don't mind...

• How does the 6120 compare to the 8500 in terms of black text output/quality? Or compared to a 1200 dpi monochrome laser, like the Phaser 3500?
  
• You said the 6120 prints heavy text, which I also read in the Macworld review. Does this look bad? If I'm printing a lot of text, in addition to limited color (like a flyer with black text and one color), would this still be a good option?
  
• What's your average prints per week? The 8500 seems more capable of large output, but I could be wrong. It's hard to tell from the website.

It's very hard to find this information, much less from a Mac user. I really appreciate it!

Upon comparing the text quality between the 8500 and 6120, they both print text a bit heavily. This is more apparent at 7 points or less. If I had to choose one over the other for text only, I would go with the 8500. Currently, I've found that the 6120 is printing black text using all 4 colors (C, M, Y, K) instead of just black. This may account for the heavy text. When I get some time to sit down and play, I'll try to figure this out. It may be an application issue, printer settings (Generate true or rich blacks?), or a driver issue. This doesn't bother me right now, as I think it can be resolved by playing with the settings....

I have no idea how the text compares to the 3500, but the 3500 may have the nudge if it prints at a "true" 1200 dpi, as the 6120's true resolution is 600, interpolated to 2400dpi.

My average output is about 50 sheets a week. Not a lot, but that's another reason why I went with the laser (and at 50 sheets a week, my consumables are far less than an inkjet, and my toner cartridges should last a year or more). No standing ink to gum up the works. Every time you turn the 8500 on, it has to melt the "crayons." If you leave the printer on, where does the melted material remain? And what keeps this material melted at the optimum temperature if you're going to stop printing overnight or for a day or two. I think the temperature would be critical, too hot and it burns. Too cold and it solidifies, possibly clogging the nozzles. (These are my opinions, not guarantees of operation). I've had too many issues with my Epson C80 inkjet printer, with clogged nozzles and ink leaks, both internally and on the paper. And in my mind, that's really what the 8500 is, an inkjet printer using melted "crayons" instead of ink. Ultimately, I think it boils down to quantity. If you're printing hundreds of pages a week, then the 8500 should be great. But if you're going to have idle periods, or don't print in quantity, then the 8500 may be a bit too much for you.

 

[kiwi-in-uk]

... Every time you turn the 8500 on, it has to melt the "crayons." If you leave the printer on, where does the melted material remain? And what keeps this material melted at the optimum temperature if you're going to stop printing overnight or for a day or two. I think the temperature would be critical, too hot and it burns. Too cold and it solidifies, possibly clogging the nozzles. (These are my opinions, not guarantees of operation). I've had too many issues with my Epson C80 inkjet printer, with clogged nozzles and ink leaks, both internally and on the paper. And in my mind, that's really what the 8500 is, an inkjet printer using melted "crayons" instead of ink. ...

Unless the technology has changed dramatically in the last four or so years, I seem to recall that the wax printers have an "idle" mode (like many other "fast start printers", including Canons HPs etc) and keep the wax warm. The only time you turn the power off is when you are moving the printer, or leaving it for an extended period (the printer has a controlled power-down cycle that melts and flushes the wax from the channels before it switches off). If you follow the instructions then there is never any problem with clogging, nor burning. IIRC (and you would need to verify this yourself from spec sheets) power consumption is roughly the same as toner based fast start laser printers. Again, if you follow the operating instructions you shouldn't experience spills - either internally or on the paper.

 

[jimw]

My Experiences with a Xerox 6300DN

I just bought one for personal use a few days ago. I chose this model after researching color laser printers for months. This research included providing files for Xerox to print for me on the 6120, 8550, and 6350. The 6300 was a hands down winner with the 6120 a close second. Xerox printers come with full toner cartridges instead of "starters." - at least that is what they told me. So you supposedly get full use of the cartridges instead of having to buy a complete set of new ones shortly after buying the printer. A set of cartridges can equal the cost of the printer on the low cost machines. Xerox had the lowest cost per page of any of the printers in its class.

I turned thumbs down on the 8500 series (the solid ink series) due to print quality, color balance, contrast, high ink use during startup, image cracking and image fading. As far as I know the 8500 series is the only solid ink system Xerox is currently selling. The rest are true laser printers. Minor issues include bogus "low toner" messages that is supposed to go away in another 100 pages of print, higher toner usage than expected, along with size, weight and cost. However filing for the rebat was relatively easy as rebates go as it all can be done online along with email.

You can read my full review and sales experience on epinion under the Xerox Phaser 6300 listing.

BTW for Mac users. While the booklet feature is not supported by Xerox on a Mac, CocoaBooklet , a donationware program works extremely well as a substitute.

I particularly avoided HP because of the historically pathetic customer service and support I received from them when I once owned their inkjets.

Let us also not forget the fact that at one time they totally abandoned to Mac and all their Mac customers for years, reintroducing Mac support only when it suited their predatory financial interests. And what did they tell all of their previous Mac customers requesting driver updates? They told them that no updates were available and there were not going to be any. Their solution - go out and buy a new HP printer. Thousands of perfectly good printers were sent to the scrap-heap because HP refused to update the drivers. As a loyal Mac user, HP is not a company that I wish to do business with.

 

[tunedby]

Xerox is better

In my work (print and packaging design) we have the Xerox phaser 6200 and the HP3700.

1. The Xerox has more features to allow you to save ink (draft color quality and draft grey). The HP have just two (full quality, grey). The HP consumes more ink.
2. I have compared the colors from xerox with final offset prints, and they are closer than the HP. That is why we use the Xerox as color previewer, and the HP for single documents. The HP has vibrant colors compared to the xerox, so single documents looks good . The xerox looks nice too, but we prefer to save the ink for proofs to the customer.

3. we have to put the HP in USB port, because the Ethernet port is unstable. The Xerox never lost the signal.

If you need more information let me know.

 

[MacFan25863]

If you haven't already, I would also check out Konica Minoltia. I just bought a 5450 DL from them, and it is an amazing printer. And they tend to be quite a bit more affordable than HP.

 

[kiteflyer]

Xerox good

I have a 3 year old Xerox Phaser 7700 tabloid printer and it does quite well.
I got it because at the time the reviewers gave it top scores. In fact, Macworld mag said they liked it so much they bought one! It is ironic that some of the best equipment is not available in "normal" stores. I also read a review somewhere that made me think Ricoh is also worth considering.

Bill