Oracle Releases Java Development Kits for OS X as Work on Java SE 7 for Mac Continues

[Negritude]

Desktop Java is *extremely important* on OS X.

For one thing, there are a *huge* number of education, scientific, and engineering applications written in Java, that help to keep the Mac relevant to the workstation community which saved the company from oblivion. These are apps that most here are completely unaware of, because they will never appear on the Mac App Store.

People often complain about Apple focusing on iToys, to the detriment of the Mac, well let me tell you, if there was no desktop Java on OS X, it would become more like a toy.

Also, an FYI for those looking for some cross-platform C# and .NET support:

http://www.mono-project.com

http://www.monobjc.net

http://monodevelop.com

 

[murrayE]

What's "consumer version" of Java SE 7 vs. JRE?

I understand the difference, of course, between Java SDK and Java JRE. But just what's a "consumer version" of Java SE 7 mean?

 

[faroZ06]

Finally! I don't see why Apple was in charge of bringing Java to their machines. Isn't that Oracle's job? Isn't Java all about Oracle making JVMs for every platform?

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Desktop Java is *extremely important* on OS X.

For one thing, there are a *huge* number of education, scientific, and engineering applications written in Java, that help to keep the Mac relevant to the workstation community which saved the company from oblivion. These are apps that most here are completely unaware of, because they will never appear on the Mac App Store.

People often complain about Apple focusing on iToys, to the detriment of the Mac, well let me tell you, if there was no desktop Java on OS X, it would become more like a toy.

Also, an FYI for those looking for some cross-platform C# and .NET support:

http://www.mono-project.com

http://www.monobjc.net

http://monodevelop.com

Nobody uses Java professionally for anything other than web apps (Ameritrade has a some nice online Java tools). Also, NOBODY likes .NET, not even Windows fans.

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Java is not as bad as Objective C.

I'd be interested in seeing Apple move away from Objective C.
Objective C syntax isn't developer friendly and there's a performance hit with message passing.

Apple could push for C# on LLVM and take .Net out of the equation.

This project is a start:
http://blog.prabir.me/post/LLVM-e28093-Native-C-Compiler.aspx

Java on LLVM is another possibility with VMkit: http://vmkit.llvm.org/

Dynamic a languages could also be supported via the Parrot VM http://www.parrot.org/

As the other guy said, get used to it. Objective C is very powerful and efficient.

 

[ct2k7]

Nobody uses Java professionally for anything other than web apps (Ameritrade has a some nice online Java tools). Also, NOBODY likes .NET, not even Windows fans.

IDEs

I like .NET, sometimes. Everything has their use.

 

[faroZ06]

It doesn't get more elitist than to hear an Apple fanboy say
"Let's just get rid of Java altogether, we don't need it!"

Actually, if we all used Apple devices, we wouldn't need Java. The truth is that we don't, and we probably shouldn't. Still, I only find Java useful for web apps, where it is actually perfect. However, I find it very annoying that Minecraft uses Java, which makes it super inefficient.

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IDEs

I like .NET, sometimes. Everything has their use.

I was referring to the annoying setup that the users tend to get stuck with. Half of the applications (to be fair, these are sketchy apps) that I open in Windows require a different version of .NET than I have. I ended up getting a version that was TOO new for some things, so I had to downgrade.

 

[kallisti]

Who still has Java installed? What is it used for? Does anyone still *need* it?

 

[talmy]

Who still has Java installed? What is it used for? Does anyone still *need* it?

I do. I've written and sell apps that use it. I use those apps myself as well as a couple of IDEs that use it (Eclipse and Netbeans) and I occasionally run across applications that make use of Java for various features. I find myself frequently using it because I regularly use three platforms (OS X, Windows, Linux) and want to be able to run applications on all of them with a GUI that might not be the best for any one platform but is at least reasonable.

 

[uniquepito]

Do me a favor, disable JavaScript in your browser and see how long you last until you turn it back on. I give it 5 minutes tops.

Java != JavaScript

 

[yg17]

Java != JavaScript

As both a Java and JavaScript developer, I'm well aware of that. I don't get paid the big bucks to not know the difference between the two. If you actually bothered to read the post I quoted, you would see that he was talking about banishing Javascript from the internet.

Next time you decide to insult someone's intelligence, read the post first.

 

[faroZ06]

Who still has Java installed? What is it used for? Does anyone still *need* it?

Yes.

1. I need Java for AP Computer Science. It's used as a learning language.
2. One of the games I play most, Minecraft, uses Java (sadly).
3. Ameritrade uses Java for their online tools because it is very good in this area. Java is used a lot for web apps.

 

[dru`]

I Wonder if this will work on PPC Leopard?

Edit: the coming Runtime of course.

No, it'll be for Lion and Mtn. Lion. They made the break with Java 7.

Leopard and PPC are well in rearview mirror and so too is Snow Leopard, unfortunately.

 

[goosnarrggh]

I was referring to the annoying setup that the users tend to get stuck with. Half of the applications (to be fair, these are sketchy apps) that I open in Windows require a different version of .NET than I have. I ended up getting a version that was TOO new for some things, so I had to downgrade.

No need to downgrade; multiple different versions of .NET can be installed in parallel, and the most appropriate runtime will be selected to execute each application as it loads.

In fact, Windows Vista ships with both .NET 2.0 and 3.0 installed by default. 3.0 can be added or removed as needed, but 2.0 is mandatory and non-removable.

Windows 7 ships with .NET 3.5.1 installed by default. .NET 3.5.1 contains full copies of both 2.0 and 3.0 as integrated components, in addition to 3.5. 3.0 and 3.5 can be added or removed as needed, but 2.0 is mandatory and cannot be removed.

If you mean to say that your applications required you to specifically omit certain service packs or hotfixes from your installations of the various .NET runtimes... then yes, that is very sketchy.

 

[guibeurt]

Java is the worst thing about OS X. It's like having a little bit of Microsoft under the hood to hog memory and weaken security. Banish it forever! And while you're at it, banish Javascript from the web!

Java is a very powerfull language. Sure it's not perfect, like OSX, Window and almost all applications we use. Upgrades of it needs to be done. At this moment, it's the most targeted language on the web for viruses and trojan. The objective here is to have Oracle update it on the same pace as the Windows and Solaris versions to patch the holes as soon as they are found.

On the server side java is one of the most powerfull environment rigth now (ex: http://www.squarespace.com). It can be used for web site but also for server side application and has a great scalability and portability. It is also a great environment for desktop applications. The portability make the application less dependant on the system on which it runs. We have build server and desktop applications that have survived many operating system upgrade with no problems. This is a great option when you have to negociate contracts with hardware and software suppliers.

On the web client side (applets), is not as great and not as used. Just disabling the java applets in your browser will keep you out of many, if not almost all, security problems.

As for the memory, yes it take more. It's a complete VM running the code.

Having java on the mac OSX is very cool. And if you do not need it, just don't install it. As it is with any application you don't use, it's another security hole. At least, you have the option.

 

[throAU]

Java is not as bad as Objective C.

I'd be interested in seeing Apple move away from Objective C.
Objective C syntax isn't developer friendly and there's a performance hit with message passing.

Objective C message passing is one of the features (along with categories) that makes it such a powerful language.

The thinking of some people here is ridiculous though. It's akin to a boilermaker or construction worker saying something like

"wahhh, my arc welder is dangerous, BAN ARC WELDERS!!"


Use the correct tool for the job. If you can't write objective-C - don't. Use C++, Java, Python or whatever instead.