Orange Announces iPhone France and Unlocking Options

[Otaviano]

Okay, I live a half an hour from the French border. Is it fine to you I go buy an iPhone, and if it works with my Belgian sim I keep it. And if it doesn't work I can ask you for my costs? Deal?

Seriously, I wouldn't be surprised its really locally unlocked. Why would it be difficult? Each carrier must have its own kind of identity number, no?
How many carriers in the world? 1000? Its only a short list to check...

If it doesn't work you just return it, it's completely within your rights to do that. Or better yet you take them to court over it because you have an air tight case.

It's got to be way to much labor to lock the phone down to multiple carrier. After-all the phone is run through a SIM card and there can't be that much info stored on it. Most likely the locked phone only accepts a SIM with some type of serial numbers associated with Orange. Once the lock is removed all SIM cards operate. So to lock it to only national carriers Orange would need those carriers to disclose information about their SIM cards which I doubt they would willingly do.

Furthermore it would be one of the biggest mistakes they ever-made because the lawsuit would be eminent.

 

[Krevnik]

Okay, I live a half an hour from the French border. Is it fine to you I go buy an iPhone, and if it works with my Belgian sim I keep it. And if it doesn't work I can ask you for my costs? Deal?

Seriously, I wouldn't be surprised its really locally unlocked. Why would it be difficult? Each carrier must have its own kind of identity number, no?
How many carriers in the world? 1000? Its only a short list to check...

It is difficult for EXACTLY the reasons already described.

One of the reasons why US people are kinda pissed there isn't an unlocking option here at all is because of international roaming. It is the BIG reason to have an unlocked phone, so you can use prepaid SIMs in other countries instead of paying absurd roaming charges (upwards of a USD a minute). If that doesn't work, it isn't really SIM unlocked.

Local locks are also hard because each phone has the /same/ firmware. You would have to go through a lot of work to partially unlock a phone in a way that gives it a whitelist for a region. Especially since some carriers like Orange, T-Mobile, and others, use the same set of SIM chips around the world.

The customer service rep doesn't have a clue.

 

[andiwm2003]

Please do!

Surely there are enough European MacRumors members who are willing to pay a small fee to know for SURE.
If the French iPhone can be unlocked WITHOUT ANY DRAWBACKS, I am pretty sure many Europeans will suddenly love to visit Paris on their Christmas holiday.... me included.
OK, I have a hacked iPhone now, but I would love to get a fully supported iPhone which I can keep updating, complete warranty, and the knowledge that once the real iPhone-apps will come along I can install and enjoy every single one of them.

there was a report from german unlocked iphones. they did NOT work in italy because apple's software was lousy programmed in a way that it did not recognize all sim cards. in short, it's not that they actively block sim cards, they just do not recognize all sim cards out there. that was what the (spiegel.de) article said. if apple is ever going to fix this is uncertain. so outside france and germany you have to try and hope for the best. maybe when the iphone comes to your particular country then an update will support all sim cards from your particular country. right now i would wait a few weeks and let others take the chance.....

 

[tsjoemie]

Please do!

Surely there are enough European MacRumors members who are willing to pay a small fee to know for SURE.
If the French iPhone can be unlocked WITHOUT ANY DRAWBACKS, I am pretty sure many Europeans will suddenly love to visit Paris on their Christmas holiday.... me included.
OK, I have a hacked iPhone now, but I would love to get a fully supported iPhone which I can keep updating, complete warranty, and the knowledge that once the real iPhone-apps will come along I can install and enjoy every single one of them.

I would be very surprised they unlock without any drawbacks....why else would they make all effort specifially for each country?

Apple must know its only 2 hrs from London to Paris by train, they must know Germany is next to France.

In Germany its 999€, in France its 749€....what kind of pricing is this if its possible to just cross the border....Why do lawsuites in Germany if Germans can pick up a fully unlocked French Iphone and put German sims...?

 

[Focaldesign]

I'm from Belgium, live 15 minutes from the French border. What I am really wondering, is this. My Belgian provider is Mobistar. Mobistar is a doughter company of Orange. If I would buy an iPhone without the Orange account but still Orange-simlocked (549 EUR), would it work with my Mobistar simcard???

 

[tsjoemie]

I'm from Belgium, live 15 minutes from the French border. What I am really wondering, is this. My Belgian provider is Mobistar. Mobistar is a doughter company of Orange. If I would buy an iPhone without the Orange account but still Orange-simlocked (549 EUR), would it work with my Mobistar simcard???

Check my posts in this thread, its exactly what we are talking about. I am from Belgium too.

 

[Focaldesign]

Check my posts in this thread, its exactly what we are talking about. I am from Belgium too.

Indeed, but I have no drivers license and I have no money( yet) to buy any of the possible iPhones (399, 549, 749) so I can't check it myself

 

[tsjoemie]

there was a report from german unlocked iphones. they did NOT work in italy because apple's software was lousy programmed in a way that it did not recognize all sim cards. in short, it's not that they actively block sim cards, they just do not recognize all sim cards out there. that was what the (spiegel.de) article said. if apple is ever going to fix this is uncertain. so outside france and germany you have to try and hope for the best. maybe when the iphone comes to your particular country then an update will support all sim cards from your particular country. right now i would wait a few weeks and let others take the chance.....

It could be a good idea to go to a french apple store. I wait for someone who buys a unlocked French Iphone and ask him/her if I can try to put my Belgian sim card inside.....

Maybe even the Apple store staff are willing to try with my Belgian Sim.....

 

[tsjoemie]

It is difficult for EXACTLY the reasons already described.

One of the reasons why US people are kinda pissed there isn't an unlocking option here at all is because of international roaming. It is the BIG reason to have an unlocked phone, so you can use prepaid SIMs in other countries instead of paying absurd roaming charges (upwards of a USD a minute). If that doesn't work, it isn't really SIM unlocked.

Local locks are also hard because each phone has the /same/ firmware. You would have to go through a lot of work to partially unlock a phone in a way that gives it a whitelist for a region. Especially since some carriers like Orange, T-Mobile, and others, use the same set of SIM chips around the world.

The customer service rep doesn't have a clue.

You give me some hope now...

 

[Focaldesign]

Maybe even the Apple store staff are willing to try with my Belgian Sim.....

That would be nice... then you would know immediatly without the purchase cost.

 

[tsjoemie]

If it doesn't work you just return it, it's completely within your rights to do that. Or better yet you take them to court over it because you have an air tight case.

It's got to be way to much labor to lock the phone down to multiple carrier. After-all the phone is run through a SIM card and there can't be that much info stored on it. Most likely the locked phone only accepts a SIM with some type of serial numbers associated with Orange. Once the lock is removed all SIM cards operate. So to lock it to only national carriers Orange would need those carriers to disclose information about their SIM cards which I doubt they would willingly do.

Furthermore it would be one of the biggest mistakes they ever-made because the lawsuit would be eminent.

Do you know if a sim has for example a code specifically related to a carrier?

Could be for example like 543-xxxxxx. Where 543 is related to Orange France and the other number to the specific Orange Sim.

If Apple puts a list with all numbers (three digits) in their database, I don't think they need then to get disclosed information from anyone.... No?

 

[savar]

I'm really confused now...how is this not "subsidized" pricing?

 

[Otaviano]

Do you know if a sim has for example a code specifically related to a carrier?

Could be for example like 543-xxxxxx. Where 543 is related to Orange France and the other number to the specific Orange Sim.

If Apple puts a list with all numbers (three digits) in their database, I don't think they need then to get disclosed information from anyone.... No?

I don't know the specifics ... it's not my line of work. I do know that every other phone manufacturer in the world that releases a GSM phone does not have this problem. I took my phone to Asia and used it without problems. I took my phone from Italy to Sweden and use it without problems.

If these reports, like the poster claiming to have trouble using his unlocked iPhone in Italy, are true then Apple and their partners will be facing some lawsuits very soon. Because they are essentially claiming to sell you an unlocked phone and not really doing so. If this is the case they are selling you a locked phone where they've broadened the acceptable SIMs. That however is not really unlocked.

My recommendation is to either wait a few weeks and see what people are reporting on the internet. Or just purchase a phone and hack it.

I'm really confused now...how is this not "subsidized" pricing?

Apple the innovator is redefining the word! What a company!

 

[Daz777777]

I'm on Orange UK and I'm wondering if that would work ok?

 

[tsjoemie]

I'm on Orange UK and I'm wondering if that would work ok?

You should take the train to Paris and check it out this weekend....

 

[nja247]

And what's best is that Germans don't even have to cross the border, they can simply order iPhones from French mail order companies. Should Apple or Orange really try to prevent that, the EU will come after them.

Not so much though, EU competition law won't really apply to the iPhone as Apple has such a small market share in the mobile phone business, thus it won't affect trade enough to hurt the common market. Though I don't see either orange or Apple worrying too much over it.

 

[jwkay]

I'm from Belgium, live 15 minutes from the French border. What I am really wondering, is this. My Belgian provider is Mobistar. Mobistar is a doughter company of Orange. If I would buy an iPhone without the Orange account but still Orange-simlocked (549 EUR), would it work with my Mobistar simcard???

There is a report (http://www.idg.se/2.1085/1.133317) that a Swedish customer purchased 2 unlocked iPhones in Germany, which then didn't behave properly back in Sweden with Swedish SIM cards. SMS and normal phone useage was "erratic".

Apple referred him back to T-Mobile, who couldn't give him a good answer as to why the "unlocked" phones didn't work with non-German SIM cards. Speculation that the phones may in some way be locked to the country-code portion of the SIM card identifier.

 

[Focaldesign]

There is a report (http://www.idg.se/2.1085/1.133317) that a Swedish customer purchased 2 unlocked iPhones in Germany, which then didn't behave properly back in Sweden with Swedish SIM cards. SMS and normal phone useage was "erratic".

Apple referred him back to T-Mobile, who couldn't give him a good answer as to why the "unlocked" phones didn't work with non-German SIM cards. Speculation that the phones may in some way be locked to the country-code portion of the SIM card identifier.

Crap, so even an unlocked phone of 749 EUR has a possibility to not work in Belgium!

 

[SimonTheSoundMa]

So, £464 for phone, O2 Simplicity pay monthly including unlimited Internet.

£15+7.5*18 = £405 + £464 = £869 over 18 months.

Oh, you get 1,500 op minutes and 250 texts or 200/200. £35 for 200/200 on iPhone contract. All you loose is Visual Voicemail.

iPhone plus 200/200 at £35/month is £630, plus £270 = £900.

Warrantee carries over to the UK too as it was bought in a EU country.

1,500 + 250 looks more pleasing, however that comes to £48/month so still a rip-off.

 

[tsjoemie]

There is a report (http://www.idg.se/2.1085/1.133317) that a Swedish customer purchased 2 unlocked iPhones in Germany, which then didn't behave properly back in Sweden with Swedish SIM cards. SMS and normal phone useage was "erratic".

Apple referred him back to T-Mobile, who couldn't give him a good answer as to why the "unlocked" phones didn't work with non-German SIM cards. Speculation that the phones may in some way be locked to the country-code portion of the SIM card identifier.

So they do unlock only locally.....

 

[Yuppi]

There is no such think as "the SIM card" there are plenty of actual SIM cards with different specs. The only think they have in common that they implement a protocol in a certain way. But there can be variations in timing, features (number of stored adresses for example). I guess that the iPhone is not as extensively tested with different SIM cards as an SE phone for example.

 

[MacsRgr8]

There is a report (http://www.idg.se/2.1085/1.133317) that a Swedish customer purchased 2 unlocked iPhones in Germany, which then didn't behave properly back in Sweden with Swedish SIM cards. SMS and normal phone useage was "erratic".

Apple referred him back to T-Mobile, who couldn't give him a good answer as to why the "unlocked" phones didn't work with non-German SIM cards. Speculation that the phones may in some way be locked to the country-code portion of the SIM card identifier.

It's getting more complicated by the minute...

 

[nja247]

Crap, so even an unlocked phone of 749 EUR has a possibility to not work in Belgium!

Actually the "hackers" have this all sorted since they've been using 1.1.2 phones on un-approved networks for weeks now. You simply need to create a .plist file for your carrier and 'symlink' it and then it should work just fine. It's not the easiest thing to grasp, but it can be done. Further the country code and phone format details need entered into the AppSupport file for the phone to function properly in a country not already included in that file (possibly Belgium).

Go to the usual suspects for full details and info. However, Apple should sort this out as it's their product (though of course only for those who legally bought an unlock through T-Mobile or Orange in the future as they owe no liability to those who bought the phones and violated terms by unlocking inappropriately).

 

[Krevnik]

I would be very surprised they unlock without any drawbacks....why else would they make all effort specifially for each country?

Because each country needs UI in /their/ language, you need to find a carrier that provides service in /their/ region. Plus, by pitting the carriers against each other for the exclusivity contract, the terms become more favorable for Apple than the operators.

 

[Papajohn56]

That's the money you'll be paying your oil in, in a couple of years.

Even OPEC said it would be ridiculous to switch away from the dollar and woulndn't happen. Taking any thing Hugo Chavez or Ahmadenijiad seriously isn't really a good plan.