Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Orange Loses iPhone Exclusivity in France
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
The question should be; are exclusive deals against public interest, are they unfair on the customer and do they limit choice?
My point being that while exclusive deals like this aren't beneficial to the customer I don't think there is any evidence that they are unfair either.
If we were talking about a phone or range of phones that had a major market share, certain functionality that people can't be without and can't get elsewhere or unfair contracts then there would be a case. But none of this is happening that I've seen.
Bottom line is if you don't like it, don't buy an iPhone - there are plenty of other phones with similar capabilities on a wide range of tariffs with a wide range of carriers.
As I said before, this interim ruling is crazy and will be overruled.
are they unfair - Yes. Some people in the UK can't get an O2 signal just like some people in the USA can't get an At&t signal. So is it not unfair that these people can't buy a product that would work just because Apple in this case has an exclusive agreement with a company that does not offer service in the area they live?
do they limit choice - Yes, choice of carrier.
"As I said before, this interim ruling is crazy and will be overruled." - Maybe yes maybe no but at some point the EU will look at sim locks, and if buying service and a handset as a package is a good thing for competition.
Alex
What stuff! Companies absolutely have rights. There are entire areas of law devoted to it. A company also has all the rights of an individual seller, along with a set of benefits available to corporate entities. Companies are also, in exchange, subject to a great deal more regulation (sometimes too much, very often not enough) than private individuals.Companies don't have rights... Unless I'm missing something they never did and if you can explain why they should, I'd like to hear it.
There are such laws in all countries. The specifics vary, and part of France's planned economy legacy is a voiding of most exclusivity deals. The court applied French law and came to the correct decision for France.
No, the ruling says that Orange can't be by contract the sole provider. There is no requirement that Apple go out and find a second distributor, but only that they may elect to do so and can't be stopped by an exclusivity deal with Orange.
Free market capitalism is but one kind of capitalism, and it essentially dictates that parties can do whatever they want, and that includes exclusivity arrangements with other suppliers. The free market model says that consumers will determine the success of the model--they will buy other products from other sources if the terms exceed the value.
In many cases, yes, at least to get a product introduced. Exclusive deals can be part of the compensation used to get a carrier to sell your product (nobody knew if the iPhone would be a flop back before it was announced), or they can be used as a profit source to help lower the price (if you get $500 million to cover your distribution costs, you don't have to build that into your per-unit price).
The problem arises when the exclusive arrangement is used to increase profits for one or more of the parties (e.g. if Orange's plans are overpriced compared to similar voice/data packages from comparable providers). If another carrier wants to offer Apple the same amount of money for each iPhone, they'd want to do it, unless they were contractually barred.
Yes, actually. Owner introduces convenient, low-priced product, contemplative of copy restrictions. Consumer weighs benefits and determines price is acceptable and purchases. Free market wins. Other sellers are free to compete with better quality, lower prices, less DRM if they so choose. I don't know where people get the idea that a free market caters specially to consumers. It does not. Sellers have all of the rights, and consumers have the money. It's a balancing game, and consumers never get more than the seller is willing to part with for the amount of money offered.
The law doesn't enshrine the right for a consumer to be able to buy an iPhone with the carrier and tariff of their choice. A poor signal doesn't stop you from buying an iPhone from O2 and is just irrelevant to this subject.
Besides, the exclusive agreements don't limit choice of network as all of the major UK networks have phones with similar capabilities to the iPhone (which are often promoted as iPhone alternatives).
Note also that this complaint wasn't from a consumer, a regulatory body or a competitions body - it was from another network who didn't win the iPhone contract and that is the only reason they've made the complaint. They might view it as unfair on them, but that's business.
Apple MUST LOVE this decision
You're absolutely right. Although, this decision is an interim one, and might be reversed on the long term.
Also, if Apple and Orange have good lawyers, and I am sure they do, they'll probably have thought this question over already and have contractual remedies for this change of circumstances.
The other question is: will Bouygues Telecom and SFR will be able to cut a deal with Apple or any middleman? and will they be able to do this fast, as in before Christmas?
You're absolutely right. Although, this decision is an interim one, and might be reversed on the long term.
Also, if Apple and Orange have good lawyers, and I am sure they do, they'll probably have thought this question over already and have contractual remedies for this change of circumstances.
The other question is: will Bouygues Telecom and SFR will be able to cut a deal with Apple or any middleman? and will they be able to do this fast, as in before Christmas?
Unlocked iPhones? come to Italy
I just want to confim that all iPhones sold in Italy are fully unlocked. No Sim-lock, no Op-lock and no country-lock whatsoever.
They are officially unlocked (from start). Just buy them and put inside any sim you like.
The only problem is the higher price: 569 Euros for the 16GB (about 800 US$) and 499 Euros for the 8 GB (about 720 US$).
I just want to confim that all iPhones sold in Italy are fully unlocked. No Sim-lock, no Op-lock and no country-lock whatsoever.
They are officially unlocked (from start). Just buy them and put inside any sim you like.
The only problem is the higher price: 569 Euros for the 16GB (about 800 US$) and 499 Euros for the 8 GB (about 720 US$).
I was being sarcastic. DRM and mobile operator lockins are equal in suckyness. In both cases what consumer gets is a bag of hurt.
You've got to consider several data such as the negotiator's English skills or the velocity of an average French salesman. Since both are really low, I say that SFR and Bouygues won't have it before 2009!
What you could have done however is what lots of people have done with SFR: threaten them to switch for Orange in order to use the iPhone. If it costs you 600 to get an unsim-locked iPhone without a contract, SFR pays you 450 if you take an "Illimythic" plan (lots and lots of things for lots and lots of money). But I think this was already told here.
Excatly. Let the corporate world make their deals without any scrutinizing from the gouvernement. Worked wonders for the US Financial sector.
Like in the US where the government bails out the autos and banks, privatise the profit, socialise the loss viva socialists
I can fully understand Apple's reasoning for making exclusivity agreements here in the UK. Edge network coverage was patchy and 3G is still patchy - I for instance cannot connect via 3G or Edge from my office, I can only connect to the standard network.
Most if not all networks are currently being upgraded to improve 3G performance but this is a time-consuming process requiring much resource and more engineers than are available in the UK (I know, I work for such a company).
We import engineers from all over the world to fulfill network upgrade requirements. It's actually one of the few growth industries left.
In much the same way that Apple is fussy about the iApps that are allowed onto the iPhone (so that performance of the device is not compromised), Apple wanted to protect the performance of the iPhone over the network it was being used on.
Over the coming years all networks in the UK will be able to deliver satisfactory 3G performance. I'm sure by that time Apple will open up the iPhone to any carrier. It has got to be in Apple's interest to sell the device through as many channels as possible.
Oh, and don't diss the French for their economic policies - they will probably be one of the least affected countries of the current mess because they don't completely rely on a credit-driven society, unlike the UK and our equally reckless friends in the US.
Most if not all networks are currently being upgraded to improve 3G performance but this is a time-consuming process requiring much resource and more engineers than are available in the UK (I know, I work for such a company).
We import engineers from all over the world to fulfill network upgrade requirements. It's actually one of the few growth industries left.
In much the same way that Apple is fussy about the iApps that are allowed onto the iPhone (so that performance of the device is not compromised), Apple wanted to protect the performance of the iPhone over the network it was being used on.
Over the coming years all networks in the UK will be able to deliver satisfactory 3G performance. I'm sure by that time Apple will open up the iPhone to any carrier. It has got to be in Apple's interest to sell the device through as many channels as possible.
Oh, and don't diss the French for their economic policies - they will probably be one of the least affected countries of the current mess because they don't completely rely on a credit-driven society, unlike the UK and our equally reckless friends in the US.
Buying iPhone in Paris
I just want to be absolutely sure about this...
I'm in Paris on holiday. I don't speak French but a sign in a store says I can buy a 16Gb 3G iPhone for 609 with Pay as you Go. My questions are; Will I be able to use this phone with SIM cards from other countries? Will I be able to update the software in the future without bricking the phone?
I just want to be absolutely sure about this...
I'm in Paris on holiday. I don't speak French but a sign in a store says I can buy a 16Gb 3G iPhone for 609 with Pay as you Go. My questions are; Will I be able to use this phone with SIM cards from other countries? Will I be able to update the software in the future without bricking the phone?
If you want it to work with sim cards from other countries, you have two choices:
You have to pay Orange an additional 100 for them to unlock it, OR
you may also be able do it with the soon to-come-dev-team-unlock for free (depending on the firmware of the iphone you bought.)
Stop insulting nations please
first you have said "effed up"
you should ashamed of yourself because that's a racist insult
second FYI
that's not "socialism" : a commission (not the gov'ment) rules to protect consumer choice, freedom and interest
and i believe consumer's choice and compagnies competition are the fundamentals of modern liberal economy, aren't they?
third
i don't know which country you are from, and i don't want to know because i have no need or willing to insult an all nation like you have done
but i can tell YOU alone are ignorant and stupid
forth
i'm amazed that forum's moderator let a post like yours
first you have said "effed up"
you should ashamed of yourself because that's a racist insult
second FYI
that's not "socialism" : a commission (not the gov'ment) rules to protect consumer choice, freedom and interest
and i believe consumer's choice and compagnies competition are the fundamentals of modern liberal economy, aren't they?
third
i don't know which country you are from, and i don't want to know because i have no need or willing to insult an all nation like you have done
but i can tell YOU alone are ignorant and stupid
forth
i'm amazed that forum's moderator let a post like yours
The visual voice mail is optional -- many of their exclusive carriers worldwide have chosen not to implement it. Mine (Telia in Sweden) being one of them. So that's a non-argument.
As for compatibility, it's not like Apple has any moral authority in that department. The iPhone 3G was buggy as hell in the beginning, it took a couple of releases to sort out the worst problems (dropped calls, nix on 3G despite excellent signal on other 3G phones in the same area, etc). The issue with dropped calls was due to the iPhone requesting an inordinate amount of power and attention from the network, causing dropped calls not just on the iPhones themselves but collateral non-iPhone users as well.
3G isn't rocket science. These networks have been widespread in Europe for several years, I was on my 3rd 3G phone when iPhone 3G came out. All the networks have the same ol' network hardware from Ericsson + Nokia, and all phones work on all networks.
So there's no technical rationale for exclusivity. Only vanity and greed on the part of Apple.
Excatly. Let the corporate world make their deals without any scrutinizing from the gouvernement. Worked wonders for the US Financial sector.
And your EU economy is fairing well?
And your EU economy is fairing well?
Depends on how you look at it.
I've been to Germany, which uses the euro, and everything's hella-f***king pricey...including labor. You should see how much the minimum wage is over there!!! But everything's "well" as long as you can afford the cost of living. Actually, region-locking iTunes downloads is FAR more annoying to me than exclusive agreements with wireless carriers. For example, in the U.S. store there are only two Rammstein albums available, but the iTunes store Deutschland (go figure) has most of them!!! But of course I can't buy any of the songs because iTunes accounts are specific to one country. And I'm assuming if my friends in Germany sent me their tracks, they wouldn't sync or play on my iPod. Retarded!!!!
has most of them!!! But of course I can't buy any of the songs because iTunes accounts are specific to one country. And I'm assuming if my friends in Germany sent me their tracks, they wouldn't sync or play on my iPod. Retarded!!!! this entire debate is dumb... just ask yourself "what is better for the consumer" ........... it's undoubtedly better to allow more than one company to carry the iphone.... so **** apple. for the only time in my life i'm actually happy with something france did.
we all saw what happened during the first 6 months that the iphone 3G was on at&t. it was clear (in most areas) that at&t could not handle the 3G bandwidth required by so many data hungry iphone users.... hence why 3G sucked for so long. I, myself, live in orlando, and after 6 months the iphone 3G is still shaky at best in my area.
we all saw what happened during the first 6 months that the iphone 3G was on at&t. it was clear (in most areas) that at&t could not handle the 3G bandwidth required by so many data hungry iphone users.... hence why 3G sucked for so long. I, myself, live in orlando, and after 6 months the iphone 3G is still shaky at best in my area.
Hi
This might of been reported before, but SFR (Vodafone France) on the front page of their website www.sfr.fr have a link were you can leave your details and they will contact you when they start to sell the iPhone.
Alex
This might of been reported before, but SFR (Vodafone France) on the front page of their website www.sfr.fr have a link were you can leave your details and they will contact you when they start to sell the iPhone.
Alex
Britain Next
Exclusive deals are anti competition and other countries should follow the good example of France and ban such deals. Shame on you Apple for screwing your customers with such deals as the O2 deal in GB.
Exclusive deals are anti competition and other countries should follow the good example of France and ban such deals. Shame on you Apple for screwing your customers with such deals as the O2 deal in GB.
Apple must allow other mobile carriers to sell the iPhone 3G in France based on a ruling today.Orange does not believe the decision will affect agreements in other countries. Bouygues Telecom "welcomed" the ruling and plans to sell the iPhone shortly.
Article Link: Orange Loses iPhone Exclusivity in France
