Ordering MacPro 8-Core

[kolevichin]

Hello,
I want to buy new MacPro 8-Core and I have some questions:
1.If I buy it with 2x Quad 2.26 GHz can I change it with 2.93 later without buying additional parts (Fans, Heatsinks and so on...) ?
2. Is it better to wait until January ?
3. What is the difference between the RAM that Apple sales ( 32GB = 3700$)
and this that macsales.com sales (32GB = 1250$) ?

P.S. : I study architecture and I will use it for rendering (V-ray), Photoshop and Archicad.

 

[Hellhammer]

1. Yes, but I advice you to get 2.66 or 2.93 when you buy it and not after.

2. No Mac Pro updates before mid 2010 (Gulftown)

3. Apple wants big profit

 

[kolevichin]

MacPro

10x for the super fast reply . Maybe I will buy 2x Quad 2.26GHz and one day when it is too slow I'll upgrade... or buy a new one

 

[Hellhammer]

10x for the super fast reply . Maybe I will buy 2x Quad 2.26GHz and one day when it is too slow I'll upgrade... or buy a new one

Okay.. What do you do with your computer? I'm asking because 2.26GHz is slower in apps that can't utilize 8 cores so I would get 2.66/2.93 quad or if your budget allows you to go for 2.66/2.93 octo, unless you use apps that can use 8 cores.

 

[kolevichin]

Well I use Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, Archicad 12 (in 13 it will support multi-core machines) and Vray render-engine. And in Windows - 3dsMax, Autocad and MicroStation. Will it be 2.26 enough ?

 

[nanofrog]

Well I use Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, Archicad 12 (in 13 it will support multi-core machines) and Vray render-engine. And in Windows - 3dsMax, Autocad and MicroStation. Will it be 2.26 enough ?

I think you'd want a higher clock speed for both the single and multi-threaded applications. 2.26 is a tad too slow, especially for the single threaded stuff IMO, and the information out there seems to support this.

 

[frimple]

I think you'd want a higher clock speed for both the single and multi-threaded applications. 2.26 is a tad too slow, especially for the single threaded stuff IMO, and the information out there seems to support this.

Though it is possible that you could take your Octad (8x2.26) and throw in some 3.33Ghz chips in the future (or now if you're impatient ) for an 8x3.33 machine. Of course there's also the possibility of taking a quad core machine and dropping in a 6 core gullftown when they come around.

The Ocatd does offer one thing that the quad can't compete with, 4 more memory slots. And to the OP let me throw a wrench in your system. I have a friend that's finishing up architecture school and was in the market for a new workstation. I pointed her towards the 08 8 core (I think she wen't for a 2.8, but they offer a 3.2) for her rendering needs. Plus the US refurb store has the 8x3.2 '08 model for sale for $3,300 bucks. That's a killer deal from , though you might be able to find them cheaper.

 

[nanofrog]

Though it is possible that you could take your Octad (8x2.26) and throw in some 3.33Ghz chips in the future (or now if you're impatient ) for an 8x3.33 machine. Of course there's also the possibility of taking a quad core machine and dropping in a 6 core gullftown when they come around.

True, but I figured the OP meant in a sense of something that Apple will configure, not by a DIY upgrade.

As per the Gulftown, maybe. No way to know if it will work without an update to the firmware (microcode). Likely not, eventhough the chip will work with X58/5520 chipsets and the Voltage Regulators can provide enough power (per Intel's Design Guidelines). As Intel is the ODM for Apple's boards, this shouldn't be a problem.

Getting a firmware update out of Apple is.

The Ocatd does offer one thing that the quad can't compete with, 4 more memory slots. And to the OP let me throw a wrench in your system. I have a friend that's finishing up architecture school and was in the market for a new workstation. I pointed her towards the 08 8 core (I think she wen't for a 2.8, but they offer a 3.2) for her rendering needs. Plus the US refurb store has the 8x3.2 '08 model for sale for $3,300 bucks. That's a killer deal from , though you might be able to find them cheaper.

The memory slots could be a problem cost wise on an '09, and I certainly agree the '08 is the best model to go with. Not only is it cheaper, it has EFI64 (helps with graphics and future versions of OS X, when it goes entirely 64 bit), and is much easier and less expensive for a 3rd party RAID card, if needed.

Given the fact that most applications aren't multi-threaded, the increase in the clock frequency is better, and most apps can't use DDR3 in triple channel either. So the '08 makes a lot of sense, especially the 3.2GHz models (still available). 3rd party vendors have run out last I checked (couple of weeks ago), but it certainly doesn't hurt to keep looking. Even Apple's price on them isn't terrible for what you get.

 

[frimple]

True, but I figured the OP meant in a sense of something that Apple will configure, not by a DIY upgrade.

Right, nice to know you could do it though

The memory slots could be a problem cost wise on an '09, and I certainly agree the '08 is the best model to go with. Not only is it cheaper, it has EFI64 (helps with graphics and future versions of OS X, when it goes entirely 64 bit), and is much easier and less expensive for a 3rd party RAID card, if needed.

Given the fact that most applications aren't multi-threaded, the increase in the clock frequency is better, and most apps can't use DDR3 in triple channel either. So the '08 makes a lot of sense, especially the 3.2GHz models (still available). 3rd party vendors have run out last I checked (couple of weeks ago), but it certainly doesn't hurt to keep looking. Even Apple's price on them isn't terrible for what you get.

Agreed! More than enough horsepower in my opinion for architecture, the ability to add in a current generation (and probably next) graphics card. Plus the memory is cheaper! Maybe it's not as sexy as current generation hardware, but you certainly don't need to put a bag over it's head...

 

[kolevichin]

Ok, but there is another problem: Does the 08 MacPro support VT-d ? I want one day (when Parallels/Fusion use VT-d) to use windows on a virtual machine and give it a separate graphic card. And thinking of that I have another question : can I have two different nVidia cards for example GTX285 and gt 120 ? I read in the forums that GTX 285 becomes too hot ?!

 

[nanofrog]

Ok, but there is another problem: Does the 08 MacPro support VT-d ? I want one day (when Parallels/Fusion use VT-d) to use windows on a virtual machine and give it a separate graphic card. And thinking of that I have another question : can I have two different nVidia cards for example GTX285 and gt 120 ? I read in the forums that GTX 285 becomes too hot ?!

Yes, the E5462 (2.8GHz part) supports Virtualization (source).

As per the pair of nVidia's, it would run hot. You could increase the fan speeds in SMC, and/or look for a 3rd party cooler for the GTX285, assuming you have the clearance for it.

That one would take some research, but the issue would apply to any of the MP's physically, though they both could only run in the '08 or '09 models due to the need for EFI64.

 

[alphaod]

Ok, but there is another problem: Does the 08 MacPro support VT-d ? I want one day (when Parallels/Fusion use VT-d) to use windows on a virtual machine and give it a separate graphic card. And thinking of that I have another question : can I have two different nVidia cards for example GTX285 and gt 120 ? I read in the forums that GTX 285 becomes too hot ?!

Yes it supports VT-d (at the chipset does).

Yes you can use more than one video card (even if one is ATi and the other NVIDIA).

And no the GTX 285 isn't hot at all.


EDIT:

Yes, the E5462 (2.8GHz part) supports Virtualization (source).

As per the pair of nVidia's, it would run hot. You could increase the fan speeds in SMC, and/or look for a 3rd party cooler for the GTX285, assuming you have the clearance for it.

That one would take some research, but the issue would apply to any of the MP's physically, though they both could only run in the '08 or '09 models due to the need for EFI64.

Damn you. I'm 3 minutes too slow.

 

[nanofrog]

And no the GTX 285 isn't hot at all.

I'd expect the pair of it and the GT120 to be, as the PCIe space is small.

Increased fan speed would help, but may get too noisy to live with.

I know it's been done with HD4870 + GT120, but IIRC, the GTX285 does run hotter than the HD4870, and wouldn't be a surprise, given the chip is newer.

Damn you. I'm 3 minutes too slow.

Muhahaha!

 

[alphaod]

I'd expect the pair of it and the GT120 to be, as the PCIe space is small.

Increased fan speed would help, but may get too noisy to live with.

Well the 285 is pretty quiet even under load; the front fan blows toward to expansion slots then has the air is sucked in by the 285 which expels it from the case; if you have a GT120 in there, since the latter is a lot shorter than the 285, the fan on the 285 isn't obstructed at all.

Of course I don't own this set up; right now I had the RAID card next to my 285 and they both run pretty cool. I do have 4870 to test this with, but I don't know where I'd got another 2 power plugs from.

 

[nanofrog]

Well the 285 is pretty quiet even under load; the front fan blows toward to expansion slots then has the air is sucked in by the 285 which expels it from the case; if you have a GT120 in there, since the latter is a lot shorter than the 285, the fan on the 285 isn't obstructed at all.

I was thinking in terms of the case fans being increased via SMC to move the heat out.

I'm not sure how hot it will run (pair), but I'd expect it to be a little warm to say the least. I have an HD4870, and it runs on the warm side. 48C Idle (fan = 50%). The PCB side gets rather hot, and the air will affect other cards in the PCIe space in a MP, given it's compact volume.

Of course I don't own this set up; right now I had the RAID card next to my 285 and they both run pretty cool. I do have 4870 to test this with, but I don't know where I'd got another 2 power plugs from.

You can use 6pin PCIe Y splitters off each of the power cables that attach to the logic board (example).

I just don't know if the HD4870 + GTX285 would work off this, due to power draw. I'd have to look up the power specs to see if it's viable or not. Otherwise, you'd need another PSU.

One of the 5.25" bay models would suffice if you'd like to run such a configuration.

Then there's the space issue, as you'd need both slots to be duals. So power issue is moot anyway.

 

[alphaod]

I was thinking in terms of the case fans being increased via SMC to move the heat out.

I'm not sure how hot it will run (pair), but I'd expect it to be a little warm to say the least. I have an HD4870, and it runs on the warm side. 48C Idle (fan = 50%). The PCB side gets rather hot, and the air will affect other cards in the PCIe space in a MP, given it's compact volume.


You can use 6pin PCIe Y splitters off each of the power cables that attach to the logic board (example).

I just don't know if the HD4870 + GTX285 would work off this, due to power draw. I'd have to look up the power specs to see if it's viable or not. Otherwise, you'd need another PSU.

One of the 5.25" bay models would suffice if you'd like to run such a configuration.

Then there's the space issue, as you'd need both slots to be duals. So power issue is moot anyway.

I might try the splitter. Unfortunately, it's $7 for a 1¢ wire and 1¢ plastics… and I'd need 2.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean with regard the 5.25" be sufficient. Was for me or the OP?

And there is space. I'll just move the RAID card to slot 4 on top, and then the ATi card would go into slot 2 (and block only slot 3).

 

[nanofrog]

I might try the splitter. Unfortunately, it's $7 for a 1¢ wire and 1¢ plastics… and I'd need 2.

Well it's not free, and they do want to make money.

I try to use eBay for cables as often as possible, as I've found it a good source for stuff like that (Y splitters for fans, SATA,...).

I'm not sure I understand what you mean with regard the 5.25" be sufficient. Was for me or the OP?

And there is space. I'll just move the RAID card to slot 4 on top, and then the ATi card would go into slot 2 (and block only slot 3).

I was refering to a worst case scenario of using one of those 5.25" bay PSU's if the logic board couldn't supply enough power.

As per the cards, I was thinking in terms of running both of them off the x16 slots, not any of the 4x locations (slots 3 & 4).

Sorry about that. It was late, and I couldn't sleep, despite feeling really tired. //grrr... stupid insomnia...