OS X 10.3.6 Expected Soon?

[orb]

Like I mentioned: In the previous thread about the Java Update 2 we discussed the 1.4.x vs 1.5.x issue. No one in their right mind is "betting the farm" on 1.5 in the enterprise now. Its too new and unproven. Most of the "Java server container" vendors in the industry are just getting 1.4.x pushed.

And don't tell me that 1.5 has some kind of "must-have" feature that all Java developers absolutely can't live without -- and thus won't use Apple hardware and development tools. The JVM version, minus serious bugfix releases, is just not that important to a stable, mature codebase...

You aren't entirely wrong. 50% wrong, 50% misguided. 🙂 First, "enterprise" development is only one small aspect of the whole thing. It happens to be what I do, so I can speak to it. But those Java developers out there are doing much, much more.

Of, the facts on Java 1.5 in the enterprise. Were you aware that EJB 3 (can't get anymore "enterprise" than that) requires Java 1.5? We just released our EJB 3 preview release at JBoss (you know, the app server that Apple ships) for people to play with. We aren't telling people to "bet the farm" on it today, but we are telling people to go play with it. Test it out. Learn it. Be ready for it. EJB 3 will change the face of "enterprise" Java in a major way. If you are a Java developer and don't have access to Java1.5 (that the rest of the world has for 6-8 months in the form of pre-releases) then you are crazy. Now is the time to learn the stuff. Java 1.5 is an extreme case because of the huge changes in the system. And EJB 3 is an even more extreme case. The need for Java 1.5 is larger than for any other Java update.

It was very distressing that Java developers using OS X couldn't get their hands on 1.5 previews 6 months ago with the rest of the world. The fact that it is out NOW and we still can't use it is unacceptable.

 

[flexoffset]

With the ati cards, the screen will ripple when scrolling. It's not overly bad, just annoying. I have read it is a driver issue.

I have also read a thread at the Apple site some time ago where Apple says that ripple is entirely in spec. 😕
I trust they're gonna be smart enough to go ahead and address the issue even if they don't see it as a big deal.

I have an ATI 9600 card on my Dual 2.5 G5 and it doesn't ripple so I dodged that bullet.

 

[wrldwzrd89]

You aren't entirely wrong. 50% wrong, 50% misguided. 🙂 First, "enterprise" development is only one small aspect of the whole thing. It happens to be what I do, so I can speak to it. But those Java developers out there are doing much, much more.

Of, the facts on Java 1.5 in the enterprise. Were you aware that EJB 3 (can't get anymore "enterprise" than that) requires Java 1.5? We just released our EJB 3 preview release at JBoss (you know, the app server that Apple ships) for people to play with. We aren't telling people to "bet the farm" on it today, but we are telling people to go play with it. Test it out. Learn it. Be ready for it. EJB 3 will change the face of "enterprise" Java in a major way. If you are a Java developer and don't have access to Java1.5 (that the rest of the world has for 6-8 months in the form of pre-releases) then you are crazy. Now is the time to learn the stuff. Java 1.5 is an extreme case because of the huge changes in the system. And EJB 3 is an even more extreme case. The need for Java 1.5 is larger than for any other Java update.

It was very distressing that Java developers using OS X couldn't get their hands on 1.5 previews 6 months ago with the rest of the world. The fact that it is out NOW and we still can't use it is unacceptable.

I hate to fan the flames of a hot topic, but...

Some of the factors governing Java releases for Apple Macintoshes are outside Apple's control. The biggest factor is that Apple does the development of the Macintosh version, not Sun. Therefore, a delay between when Sun gives the necessary code to Apple and when that code is proven to work under Mac OS X is inevitable. You must also factor in the fact that Sun probably releases updates to Apple (and all other porters) in batches to save money; although less expense is involved for both Apple and Sun, the delay between Sun's releases and Apple's releases gets even longer because of it.

 

[orb]

The biggest factor is that Apple does the development of the Macintosh version, not Sun.

Exactly. I think we all understand WHY it is like that. The problem is that it makes OS X a second-tier platform for Java developers who use OS X. Is that acceptable for Apple? Maybe. Most Java developers don't develop for OS X, they develop on it. Being a capable java dev platform sells tons of powerbooks. Is that important in the overall scheme of things? I dunno.

If I were apple wanted to make Apple a premier platform for Java developers, they would increase ties with Sun to make sure that the OS X version of the JVM didn't lag so far behind.

 

[gopher]

It isn't always a question of Apple's lagging behind. They use a fairly recent version of Java. The problem is that Microsoft has taken Java code and corrupted it a bit with some of its own. Web developers not realizing this test the Java on their own machine and think it is good to go. It isn't. Web developers should read over http://www.anybrowser.org/ if they want to make sure their webpages are platform neutral.

 

[reorx]

You aren't entirely wrong. 50% wrong, 50% misguided. 🙂 First, "enterprise" development is only one small aspect of the whole thing. It happens to be what I do, so I can speak to it. But those Java developers out there are doing much, much more.

Hmm. Enterprise Java is what I do, and until the *major* EJB containers ship and prove reliable, a move to 1.5 JVMs is not going to happen quickly. Most organizations cannot afford to throw away their investments in their Java apps year after year, chasing the latest Sun spec. Its expensive in terms of time and cost - especially re-certifying.

Plus, I don't think the current class of XServe and Wintel rack-mounts are big enough. IBM and Sun big UNIX clusters are the preferred deploy platforms because they provide near-mainframe reliability and support.

Having the 1.5 spec JDK right now is just not necessary. Unless you're a spec-chaser, in which case the Sun and Windows platforms would be your preferred development platform... 😀

 

[reorx]

Exactly. I think we all understand WHY it is like that. The problem is that it makes OS X a second-tier platform for Java developers who use OS X. Is that acceptable for Apple? Maybe. Most Java developers don't develop for OS X, they develop on it. Being a capable java dev platform sells tons of powerbooks. Is that important in the overall scheme of things? I dunno.

If I were apple wanted to make Apple a premier platform for Java developers, they would increase ties with Sun to make sure that the OS X version of the JVM didn't lag so far behind.

The problem with increased ties to Sun is Microsoft... They just settled their score with satan (aka Bill G) and are if Apple threatened their lucrative mid/low priced server market with an aweseome end-to-end Java platform, it'd cut them completely out of profitability. I think that Steve is happy with being a "2nd tier" platform. I just don't see a lot of off-the-shelf Java apps driving sales of our platform.

I just like developing on a really awesome UNIX based platform. Too bad we don't support Apple where I work... I'd love to have a dual G5 as my dev box. 😎

 

[orb]

Hmm. Enterprise Java is what I do, and until the *major* EJB containers ship and prove reliable, a move to 1.5 JVMs is not going to happen quickly. Most organizations cannot afford to throw away their investments in their Java apps year after year, chasing the latest Sun spec. Its expensive in terms of time and cost - especially re-certifying.

Enterprise Java is what I do. I happen to work for a company the creates one the the *major* EJB containers. We have customers who are in production on 1.5 today. I don't recommend it, but it's the truth. We have even more customers who are developing on 1.5 with an eye on deploying on it in the future. That's more reasonable. What's even more reasonable is the need to be able to prototype and get experience on Java 1.5 with an eye towards the future. You have to learn the technology first, and to do that you need access to the technology.

I'm not sure why you keep going back to enterprise Java, though. J2EE is only one segment of Java developers. I'm glad you chose it, since it's one I'm intimately familiar with. But just keep in mind that the needs of Java development community for Java 1.5 go well beyond J2EE.

Plus, I don't think the current class of XServe and Wintel rack-mounts are big enough. IBM and Sun big UNIX clusters are the preferred deploy platforms because they provide near-mainframe reliability and support.

Nobody deploys J2EE on OS X. Really. Yeah, you'll find an adventurous soul here or there, but you can dismiss them as statistical anomalies. However, lot's and lots of people DEVELOP J2EE applications on OS X, and that's the important crowd. If you have any eye to the future, having access to Java 1.5 for prototyping and developing future applications is critical.

Despite this it seems we both agree that OS X is a second-tier Java platform, which was all I was trying to say. If we're lucky Apple will provide 1.5 before 10.4 comes out (or deliver 10.4 soon) so that the practical effects of being a second-tier platform aren't as devastating.

 

[edenwaith]

Calculator

Updated calculator, huh? I'm curious if this ends up being a graphing calculator, or just some minor bug fix. Calculator 3.1 has some interesting plug-ins...nothing which seems very flushed out, but there are the possibilities.

 

[~Shard~]

Updated calculator, huh? I'm curious if this ends up being a graphing calculator, or just some minor bug fix. Calculator 3.1 has some interesting plug-ins...nothing which seems very flushed out, but there are the possibilities.

Maybe it will be a magical calculator that allows you to input the date you ordered a new G5 PowerMac and the output will be the actual date by which you'll receive it! The Apple Store would be wise to implement such a calculator, for the sake of its customers, especially the ones who have been waiting for months already and have had their shipping dates changed multiple times!

 

[relimw]

Maybe it will be a magical calculator that allows you to input the date you ordered a new G5 PowerMac and the output will be the actual date by which you'll receive it! The Apple Store would be wise to implement such a calculator, for the sake of its customers, especially the ones who have been waiting for months already and have had their shipping dates changed multiple times!

That's just plain silly Shard, didn't you see klaus finally got his? 😉

By klaus' experience, just tell everbody to wait 4 months before you start calling 🙁

Ah well, I expect 10.3.6 to be out soon, since it's been seeded to developers again for a few days now. Prolly be out next Thursday. (New music on Tuesdays, new updates on Thursdays 😀)

 

[G4-power]

Ah well, I expect 10.3.6 to be out soon, since it's been seeded to developers again for a few days now. Prolly be out next Thursday. (New music on Tuesdays, new updates on Thursdays 😀)

IIRC, before there was "New Music on Tuesdays" most Apple updates, upgrades and stuff came on Tuesdays.

 

[johnnyjibbs]

IIRC, before there was "New Music on Tuesdays" most Apple updates, upgrades and stuff came on Tuesdays.

Apple updates are always on Tuesdays... except when they're on Mondays or Wednesdays.. 😛

 

[Warlock7]

I want the "-R" DL media...

Three packs of Verbatim DL are now available here ($34.99 at Best Buy, EPA and $39.99 at Fry's Sunnyvale).

High priced now, but if you have an 8 GB ISO file to burn you don't have a choice....

The price will drop. Do you remember when $5 was a good price for a DVD-R? Do you remember when $5 was a good price for a CD-R?

Hey Aiden, nice to see you.

I could only find this Verbatim three pack of DL media at the BB site.
You can get this same media for less from Sony, here, with free shipping.🙂 They're only $9.99 per disc and they're being sold a single disc at a time.

I want to see the "-R" media get released already, not the "+R" media.

I also want to see Apple begin to support the DL media in their apps too. The only way I can burn to any DL media at the moment is by using Toast... 🙁

I doubt that we'll actually see any of this until Tiger gets released though.

 

[TrenchcoatJedi]

They really should get Safari RSS out already. Firefox just added that functionality in their latest revision.

 

[Noiseboy]

iSync

Having just received the splendid Nokia 7610, my only desire for the 10.3.6 update is that it adds support for it in iSync. That would be a major change to the way iSync works but would open far more phones up to be able to work with the app. If it doesn't include the change I will probably not install the update, Digidesign have not qualified 10.3.5 for use with ProTools LE on a G4 yet, maybe Tiger will be out before they can qualify 10.3.6 😛

 

[Warlock7]

Highly doubt that...

Having just received the splendid Nokia 7610, my only desire for the 10.3.6 update is that it adds support for it in iSync. That would be a major change to the way iSync works but would open far more phones up to be able to work with the app. If it doesn't include the change I will probably not install the update, Digidesign have not qualified 10.3.5 for use with ProTools LE on a G4 yet, maybe Tiger will be out before they can qualify 10.3.6 😛

Amazon posted the release date as March 31, 2005...

 

[BWhaler]

With which card? (5200/9600/9800?)

9800 with a 23" display.

 

[wdlove]

I think that it is almost certainty that there will not be an update this Tuesday. Hopefully it will be before Thanksgiving.