OS X 10.8.2 lag fix on Retina MacBook Pro

slytton

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Aug 28, 2012
4
0
I have seen a few coments in other threads about 10.8.2 improving UI and Safari lag on rMBP. Given the number of people complaining about these issues I thought I would start a dedicated thread discussing whether there was any hope for a fix in 10.8.2. Has anyone noticed any improvements?
 

mrapplegate

macrumors 68030
Feb 26, 2011
2,818
8
Cincinnati, OH
I have seen a few coments in other threads about 10.8.2 improving UI and Safari lag on rMBP. Given the number of people complaining about these issues I thought I would start a dedicated thread discussing whether there was any hope for a fix in 10.8.2. Has anyone noticed any improvements?
I think there will be a lag until technology catches up with the display.


http://www.anandtech.com/show/6023/the-nextgen-macbook-pro-with-retina-display-review/8


To be quite honest, the hardware in the rMBP isn’t enough to deliver a consistently smooth experience across all applications. At 2880 × 1800 most interactions are smooth but things like zooming windows or scrolling on certain web pages is clearly sub-30fps. At the higher scaled resolutions, since the GPU has to render as much as 9.2MP, even UI performance can be sluggish. There’s simply nothing that can be done at this point - Apple is pushing the limits of the hardware we have available today, far beyond what any other OEM has done.
 

mrapplegate

macrumors 68030
Feb 26, 2011
2,818
8
Cincinnati, OH
Yeah, I've read that article. No one seems to be certain that the hardware is in fact the problem, although AnadTech does make a very compelling argument. I guess I am just hoping for a miracle.
Macro aslo mentions it in his review, http://www.marco.org/2012/08/26/retina-mbp-review , but does say it did not stop him from calling it the best computer he has ever used.
I don't think the current GPU's can push that many pixels. Perhaps in a year or two.
 

slytton

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Aug 28, 2012
4
0
Macro aslo mentions it in his review, http://www.marco.org/2012/08/26/retina-mbp-review , but does say it did not stop him from calling it the best computer he has ever used.
I don't think the current GPU's can push that many pixels. Perhaps in a year or two.
Thanks for the post. It's a good review and he does seem to agree with AnandTech. I should have mentioned that I actually purchased and returned a rMBP because of the UI and Safari lag. I found it to be annoying and atypical of an Apple product. I have been following the threads about the recently released 10.8.1 update and the soon to be released 10.8.2 update hoping that there might be a fix. I really did love everything else about the computer and if I heard tomorrow that the UI lag was improved by the update I would re-order the computer immediately. I was just wondering if people were noticing any improvements with 10.8.2?
 

mrapplegate

macrumors 68030
Feb 26, 2011
2,818
8
Cincinnati, OH
I don't think this issue will be fixed with a software update. In my opinion it will be fixed when a newer GPU is put in place. I could be wrong. I am not on a rMBP, and have only seen samples in the stores. It would not stop me from buying one, but at the same time, it makes me think what will be around in a year or so when I am ready to upgrade.
 

mabaker

macrumors 65816
Jan 19, 2008
1,114
261
I would be very interested to see a video of this "lag". It is like 24fps "lag" or plain good old stuttering while scrollings?
 

iDerp

macrumors newbie
Aug 25, 2012
8
0
I don't think this issue will be fixed with a software update. In my opinion it will be fixed when a newer GPU is put in place. I could be wrong. I am not on a rMBP, and have only seen samples in the stores. It would not stop me from buying one, but at the same time, it makes me think what will be around in a year or so when I am ready to upgrade.
I tried a store unit as well. Running on the discrete gpu did not fix the lag for mission control on the unit. If this is the case, it is certainly a software issue.
Can anyone confirm?
In two weeks or so i now it for sure :D
 

sth

macrumors 6502a
Aug 9, 2006
570
10
The old world
There are certainly limits to what the hardware is capable of, but that doesn't mean that there's no room for improvement left on the software side.

Also, there seem to be some weird bugs related to performance. For example: I got pretty mediocre performance with a windowed OpenGL application when running in virtual 1680x1050 mode. When I set the screen size to 1920x1200, performance was perfectly fine all of a sudden, even with the application window maximized. In theory, this cannot be.
 

davidmcguigan

macrumors member
May 21, 2009
45
0
Video

I would be very interested to see a video of this "lag". It is like 24fps "lag" or plain good old stuttering while scrollings?
http://www.screencast.com/t/6cLv5s7hzK

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Thanks for the post. It's a good review and he does seem to agree with AnandTech. I should have mentioned that I actually purchased and returned a rMBP because of the UI and Safari lag. I found it to be annoying and atypical of an Apple product. I have been following the threads about the recently released 10.8.1 update and the soon to be released 10.8.2 update hoping that there might be a fix. I really did love everything else about the computer and if I heard tomorrow that the UI lag was improved by the update I would re-order the computer immediately. I was just wondering if people were noticing any improvements with 10.8.2?
I actually stuck things out hoping and hoping that performance would get better. Finally sold mine today and bought the non-retina version... it's soooooooo much faster it gets me excited to write code on a laptop again. The retina screen is amazing, but after 3 solid months of (attempted) use I have to say it's pretty much unusable unless you just have really low expectations for your computer's responsiveness. Drove me crazy.

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I don't think this issue will be fixed with a software update. In my opinion it will be fixed when a newer GPU is put in place. I could be wrong.
Agree with this. It's not the hardware per se but the way OS X virtualizes the lower resolutions combined with the hardware. If you hack OS X to 2880x1800 it's very fast, as fast as the non retina macs almost. But then of course it's unusable because of eyesight.
 

solussd

macrumors newbie
Feb 18, 2011
7
3
It's fixed!

10.8.2 *does* fix the UI lag issue on retina macbook pros. It fixes it decisively. :D It's now as fast as my high-end 2011 Macbook Pro .
 

PalacePlayers

macrumors regular
Oct 5, 2011
106
3
I'm voting for this to be a software problem as well. The retina MacBook is packed with a very powerful GPU - I think it should handle this amount of pixels.

But most importantly - it seems like there is too much variation from app to app - suggesting the coding has a great impact on the fluidness and lagging. Take iPhoto for instance, which is a somehow heavy app, but still runs smooth as butter. iTunes and Safari on the other hand, runs sub-par FPS on many occasions. When iPhoto can scrobble thorugh my entire photo library at 30 fps, I see no reason why Safari shouldn't scroll www.aftenposten.no at a decent fps.

To quote what another forum member said about the case earlier:
There is no problem with the GPU itself, it's fine. It's an issue in OS X and the immature scaling system they're using is just not fast enough, it's still demanding too much from CPU/GPUs at the moment (the hardware is capable but the code itself isn't optimized for those hardware).

This is the first time Apple has enabled such scaling system in OS X with a Retina display, so there'll be issues and it'll take several months to optimize it.

They're already improving in each software update with better drivers.

If you can wait to get the rMBP next year and you're happy with your current system, then wait it out. It'll be much stable next year with further improvements to both the rMBP but most importantly, an optimized OS for the Retina displays.
Also, I'm seeing great improvements on the facebook news feed after resetting the entire Safari app, deleting cookies, autofills etc etc etc. This also indicates bad coding.

I'm not a pro though, so feel free to tell me where I'm wrong.
 

iOrbit

macrumors 6502a
Mar 8, 2012
539
17
10.8.2 *does* fix the UI lag issue on retina macbook pros. It fixes it decisively. :D It's now as fast as my high-end 2011 Macbook Pro .
i'm hoping this means the same for non retina macbook Pros from 2011 onwards.

on Lion, my macbook pro 2011 (bottom end 15 inch) would never lag on launchpad or swiping desktops, or mission control. it was always silky smooth.

im convinced this new Dock and the larger icons in launchpad are the reason why its laggy. and not silky smooth.

so if apple have done something in 10.8.2 to bring down the strain on the gpu, then it proves its a software thing as much as hardware.

again, i hope it fixes it on the non retina macbooks too, cause i love mountain lion outside of its issues.
 

quantumE

macrumors newbie
Jul 27, 2012
10
3
10.8.2 *does* fix the UI lag issue on retina macbook pros. It fixes it decisively. :D It's now as fast as my high-end 2011 Macbook Pro .
Are you sure? You're the first one from which I hear a so clear statement...
I'm asking because I returned mine rMBP but I really loved that machine except for the lag issue. So the idea is to buy it back if they fix that issue.

Could you try to check the frame rate while scrolling in safari using the Quartz debug utility included in the xcode software package?

My rMBP used to score a very poor 20 fps on heavy sites.........A really smooth experience is around 50-60 fps.....

Thank you very much
 

X-Ravin

macrumors regular
Nov 30, 2008
145
9
I'm finding good results turning the stacks to show as folders and using Safari for web browsing. Not perfect, but much better than before. I've looked through several 'rMBP lag' threads, it really looks like a software issue. But try changing stacks to look like folders, made a big difference on mine.
 

slrandall

macrumors 6502
Jun 15, 2011
412
0
Definitely a software issue. My rMBP was a speed demon on Lion, with animations smooth like butter. ML induced the stuttering and lagging, so we'll see what 10.8.2 can do.
 

quantumE

macrumors newbie
Jul 27, 2012
10
3
Definitely a software issue. My rMBP was a speed demon on Lion, with animations smooth like butter. ML induced the stuttering and lagging, so we'll see what 10.8.2 can do.
I don't know what to say...on my rMBP the lag was present ALSO with Lion.....on safari I used to se 10-15 fps....actually on ML many things were improved.....not enough for me, but improved. Your experience is very different from mine...
 

PalacePlayers

macrumors regular
Oct 5, 2011
106
3
From another thread, on the latest build:

On rMBP the general stability and performance is greatly increased, however, Diablo 3 is completely unplayable until you use a low resolution < 1680.
Graphic drivers have been updated and sucks for gaming…
 

dcorban

macrumors 6502a
Oct 29, 2007
913
28
I loaded theverge.com on my brand new 2012 Air and scrolling up and down is significantly choppy here as well. Same with re-sizing the App Store window. When clicking the green button, it is noticeably choppy when resizing.

I tried these actions on my girlfriend's MacBook Air with the same results. This is with 10.8.1, so it is likely a software problem.

It seems that whomever made this video has never actually tried these actions on a non-retina computer, as you will see the exact same effect on non-retina Macs. This video is inaccurate FUD, plain and simple.

*Edit* I also tried the site www.aftenposten.no, mentioned earlier in this thread, and yes it is choppy just like the others. This is a Mountain Lion issue, not hardware. It is likely exacerbated by the higher resolution of retina displays, but not caused by it.
 

davidmcguigan

macrumors member
May 21, 2009
45
0
It seems that whomever made this video has never actually tried these actions on a non-retina computer, as you will see the exact same effect on non-retina Macs. This video is inaccurate FUD, plain and simple.
I made the video. And you don't know what you're talking about. Sitting here on a 2012 non retina MacBook Pro and it's literally 20-50 FPS smoother. It was smoother on my early 2012 Air too. The mac approach to graphics always hits intermittent lag and choppiness, but not like on the retina. On the retina it's just insanely choppy.
 

dcorban

macrumors 6502a
Oct 29, 2007
913
28
I never said it wasn't smoother. I said it was present on even the most modern of non-retina Macs. It was not there with Lion. It is there with Mountain Lion. The logical conclusion is that it is a problem with Mountain Lion, and not the hardware.
 

quantumE

macrumors newbie
Jul 27, 2012
10
3
On the retina it's just insanely choppy.
I can't agree more with you.

And for those still spending time on the present-with-ML/not-present-with-L lag argument I would like to clarify it: The lag on the rMBP was present ALSO under Lion. I measured it with quartz debug. My 2009 13" MBP provided a smoother experience than both the lion-rMBP and the ML-rMBP.

I don't know IF ML introduced the lag issue also on non-retina macs, but on the rMBP that issue was present from day one.

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From another thread, on the latest build:
Thanks. It's (almost) a good news. Hope they'll manage to fix ALL the drivers related issues.
 

davidmcguigan

macrumors member
May 21, 2009
45
0
Official 10.8.2

It's out, can people with retinas report back? Is the graphics performance any better? Is it worth my returning my new non retina to get a retina? Inquiring minds! Thanks!!!

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I never said it wasn't smoother. I said it was present on even the most modern of non-retina Macs. It was not there with Lion. It is there with Mountain Lion. The logical conclusion is that it is a problem with Mountain Lion, and not the hardware.
You actually have it backwards. The lag was even worse in Lion, slightly improved with Mountain Lion. But still unusable. Hoping 10.8.2 will fix it once and for all. The irony is I just sold mine last week and bought a non-retina 2012. That sucks.