OS X vs XP

[Bluefusion]

What's with all the extra returns? Sheesh, had to clean 'em up for ya

Originally posted by breadboy
1. Windows XP is fast
My normal boot up time (after bios and scsi bootup) is about 32 seconds. As I have it loaded after login it takes about 20-30 seconds to get it to a regular operating mode, (after alllllll of my start up programs are loaded) but as soon as the start bar appears at about 5-10 seconds its pretty much usable even if the processor is being taxed by loading programs a bit.

If you add that all up that's about 60 seconds to a complete running system with a ton of programs loaded (including windows blinds which skins the windows and the start bar, and norton which isn't exact optimized for speed), and that is hard to beat.

So by hacking your system, you've cut down on your boot time. OK...

BeOS booted in 6 seconds, but I would never say it was a "fast OS"...

Granted, OS X takes a while to boot, but the last time I restarted was 4 months ago, and that was for a security update (Panther will not require reboots after them). I don't see your hacked system being able to start up quickly as being an advantage of the OS. I could turn off a lot of crap in OS X, but I don't feel the need to.

2. Windows XP is customizable
........
I can make it look and run like beOS, OSX, Linux, etc.) and feels down to the
very heart of it. Yeah it's not linux, but its closer than any mac OS i've ever used. I love being able to mess with individual
drivers, system files, registry files, etc. I can turn off and on pretty much any function in services (part of the reason my pc starts so quickly), and the list goes on and on. One of the biggest complaints I hear on the apple commercials is that things don't run nice and pretty ( my pc won't work with my digital camera, my pc has a blue screen that pops up, my pc crashes all the time, etc), but this is purely a lack of skill with windows.

You shouldn't have to LEARN how to get a computer to work properly. This is just faulty logic. Macs work, and by your own admission PCs "require skill". This is hardly a fair fight, now is it?

As for "loving to hack registries"... what do you DO with your computer? Do you have deadlines? Projects? Believe me, when you want a system to just function normally so that you can get your work done, hacking registry files is far from your mind. And we're talking about BASIC Windows here, not Windows for Uber-Geeks...

And don't for a minute fool yourself into thinking that skinning your windows makes it "run like MacOS, BeOS, or Linux". There's no comparison (and believe me, I've used virtually every Windowblinds package I can find... they all suck, to put it bluntly.)

3. Windows XP runs more software
Here is a list of programs I use that arn't available for Mac:

Guitar Pro
Line 6 Guitar Port software
MYIE2
Media Center 9
BayCheck Pro
DFX 6
GetRight
The Object Desktop suite of tools (windows blinds, desktop x, etc)
Sound Forge 6
Tweak XP pro (yes I know this is a pc customization tool, but boy if apple had an equivilant to this for basic tweaking)
Shooting Star
Win RAR
Nero 6
Win ISO
Exact Audio Copy
DisKeeper 8.0 Pro

There are equivalents for all of these on the Mac. Nero? Give me a break! Try Toast Titanium, maybe...

Tweak XP shouldn't be on that list and you know it. Have you had ResEdit all these years? Didn't think so.

MyIE may have a lot of features, but all of those features are in Mac browsers (OmniWeb, Safari, Mozilla), and most people use whatever suits them best. Personally, I find Safari a lot more friendly than any other browser... and MyIE is SO DAMN UGLY! What's with the hundreds of brightly-colored buttons? I thought Windows was the serious, "professional" OS?

SoundForge is nothing compared to Peak...

And I'm literally laughing my ass off at Media Center... ever hear of iTunes and QuickTime Pro? Award-winning, best-in-class software that YOU DON'T HAVE? (Windows QT sucks) Keep using Media Center.. just keep telling yourself that it's a viable substitute... I'm still laughing

Most software on that list is CD-related, all of which can be done with a single app called Toast.

There is a lot of guitar software on the Mac... maybe not everything, but there's certainly enough. The point being that everything you've listed has a viable and usually superior alternative on the Mac!

4. Windows XP is stable

It's gotten better, I'll give it that, but it's still far from perfect. I use XP every day and it still has problems (around 70-100 computers, with a professional IT staff to take care of them). We have ONE Mac at school, and no one needs to do anything with it. No patches, no fixing.. every once in a while I'll download the tri-monthly point update if I feel like it...

5. Windows XP has a better Internet experience.
I can't stress enough how great this browser really is, its faster and more compatible than Firebird, and of course outshines all the others biggies (IE,Mozilla,Opera).

Again, most of those features were already on the Mac, and that's got to be the ugliest browser I've ever seen (though full of features, I'll give it that)... do you really use all of them, though? It still has IE/Windows bookmarking, which is sad, really...

6. Windows and PC's arnt going anywhere.
1. Apple is loseing the educational market (This is really, really going to hurt)
2. Apple isn't doing that wondefully in performance when compared with the PC. (look at all the commotion with the g5 performance)
3. People can get Pc's running windows xp for a much cheaper price than they can buy a Mac running OSX
4. Windows is becomming easier and easier to use.
5. Microsoft (love them or hate them) devotes almost all of their attention to Pc related software
6. Apple has been losing their market share for some years now (down to 2.3 percent last I heard)

Apple's not going anywhere either... they have a very dedicated market sector and fanbase that Microsoft wishes they had (but never will). Apple's performance is superior, and the ranting was completely ridiculous (spl at Haxial is one of the most uninformed, stubborn people I've ever had the pleasure of talking to)... it has been PROVEN that every reason given for the G5 being "slower" was completely false, and that the system IS at the moment still the fastest.

Apple's hold on the education market has certainly fallen quite a bit, but they've got a lot of pro customers to take care of too, and they've done just fine with that.

Microsoft doesn't make pro-level software like Soundtrack, Shake, Final Cut Pro, or DVD Studio Pro... Microsoft doesn't invent wholly new concepts spun off of existing networks like iChat AV... Microsoft doesn't revolutionize a stagnant market with products like the iPod...

Apple's success is vital to the entire computer industry, whether you realize it or not. There is little to no innovation on anyone's side but Apple's, and their OS is STILL the most original, most inviting, and most powerful for getting work done.

Why do you think everyone copies Apple's designs? Why do you think we Mac users keep claiming that "Apple had that first", etc? Because companies use Apple's innovation to produce their own products.

Microsoft sinks money into Apple whenever they start going under because Microsoft NEEDS them... they are driving the industry forward and without them, very little would ever truly evolve. You really think that a company with that much power in the industry (far more than their puny marketshare numbers would attest to) wouldn't make the BEST damn OS on the planet...? Think about it.

Windows will always be the "cheap way out"--but no one ever got anywhere by following others.

There will always be endless droves of PCs, but by the same token the Macintosh will always be in a class of its own.

 

[billyboy]

Originally posted by breadboy
as far as the stats i read the 2.3 percent mabye a month or 2 ago, so it isnt that dated. It was from a news source too so I would take that over apple As far as education, I've heard parents are really complaining that kids are using mac's when almost everyone has a pc and schools are starting to think it over. If Apple loses the Education market (which it probably will eventually because pc's are much cheaper) it looks pretty much like a nail in the coffin.

As far as Apples future, its in doubt if they don't do better than its new g5. They have to get that 3 ghz version out really fast if they want to keep up on amd and intel who aparently are going to dig the trench even deeper with their 64 bit offerings

Sorry to pick your points off, but...

There are lies, damn lies and statistics in newspapers!

Maybe if Apple had 2.something % market share of a market of 10 it would be bad news, but of a market that is growing by the million year on year? The figures dont exactly add up to a crisis, especially in the context of Apple´s broadening horizons with hardware peripherals like iPod etc.

10% of computers in use in the world are Macs. A bit like Rolls Royces and Duracell batteries, they go on and on and are far too stylish for doorstops and rubbish bins.

I believe Mercedes has a lower share of its market than Apple has of its, based on recent annual sales. Shall we start digging a grave for those German geniuses too?

Placing your aside about "PCs are cheaper" in the same sentence as parents complaining about the IT situation at schools is quite inspired. Read this http://forgetcomputers.com/~jdroz/03.html and send it to every headmaster you know. Insist that he gives it to the head of his IT department and insist that he or she follows the criteria for cost assessment of a computer system in that school. It sort of makes the "Macs are dear" myth sound faintly ridiculous, and would certainly give money conscious parents a lot to complain about as regards little Johnny being slowly forced to inhabit a PC world.

The other myth is Megahertz, yawn yawn.

This thread was about OSX v XP and for the vast majority of dumbass users like myself, it doesnt really matter a jot what is quoted under the hood of a PC - if OSX 10.3. means all G4 and some G3 Macs can go noticeably faster and work even smarter, retaining that comfortable user-friendly mystery-free feeling, then that is good enough of an upgrade while this G5 thingy takes off.

And for the first wave of hardened power users who need the best there is, then with a G5 they now have a machine with the potential to be developed to who knows where, even to a sexy sounding 3GHz, which BTW is good for Windows users because there is now added pressure on Intel and co to keep the Mac v PC tradition going and produce a 6GHz chip. That sort of push ahead should make the PC hardware capable of dragging the burgeoning code monster that is Windows along at the same speed as Panther.

 

[Jagga]

heres some info

Check out a link within this same site regarding views from a PC user and other mac users, benefits of price and applications....I think the thread is called "What makes you proud of your mac" actually give it a full read.

Of note imagine cycling through all of the windows of a single application NOT just all open windows like that on, well, Windows.
Example open alot of applications, and different windows on XP (like 4 different IE windows, Word windows, Excel windows etc) then when you Alt-Tab you'll have to browse through all of the open windows, and you CANNOT browse through windows of a specific applications (ex IE ).

Good luck on whatever you decide.

 

[jxyama]

been thinking about this stuff ever since i learned how to use iMovie in a matter of few hours...

i think the reason many people are so price conscious about computers is because it's seen as a tool, not a "lifestyle" accessory. cars are more of the latter - what you drive, how the car looks, etc. matter a lot more to many people and that's why price is not the biggest factor. afterall, bmw, honda and kia will (usually) get you to the place you want to go the same, but each cater to different markets. even if bmw, honda and kia has the same horsepower, options, ameneties, etc., they will be priced differently and each has their set of customers.

computers, on the other hand, isn't like that. it's a tool... for most people, it's a typewriter/checkbook replacement. or a browser/email box. as such, price is a major factor. the brand of computer doesn't really matter as long as the paper is written, spreadsheet is keeping your accounts on record and you can check your emails. (on that account, it's amazing how much money M$ makes on just churning out newer "versions" of Office one after another when all it amounts to is a glorified typewriter/checkbook/slide maker.) (yes, it's a simplification, but try to see my point here...)

Usually.

however, after using iApps, my idea of computers as a tool kind of changed. iMovie is amazing - it lets me do things i thought no ordinary consumer computer would/should be able to do. iPhoto is great - i can easily organize my photos from quite a long time ago in a very neat and beautiful fashion. and they were really, really easy to learn! i feel now that iApps are not simply "tools."

i think these are truly lifestyle accessories. and for that reason, i think price doesn't matter as much to me anymore. i want to be able to make movies. i want to be able to turn piles of old cluttering photos into a nice album. i want to have easy access to 3000 songs. because these functions are not what i consider to be tools-level, i want to do it in flying colors. i want it to be easy and intuitive. and i believe apple lets me do just that... (notice i never said windows machines can't do all the above - i know you can do the same on windows. but it's not included with the OS and/or it's not as elegantly implemented...)

i realize it's a vague concept - "tools" vs. "lifestyle accessories" but maybe some of us can understand what i'm talking about...

so PC being cheaper, XP being more stable, etc... doesn't really matter to me. for work, i think i'll be able to use PC just as before, but i can't imagine not having a mac for the "fun" part of my life.

 

[aafuss1]

Re: heres some info

Originally posted by Jagga
Check out a link within this same site regarding views from a PC user and other mac users, benefits of price and applications....I think the thread is called "What makes you proud of your mac" actually give it a full read.

Of note imagine cycling through all of the windows of a single application NOT just all open windows like that on, well, Windows.
Example open alot of applications, and different windows on XP (like 4 different IE windows, Word windows, Excel windows etc) then when you Alt-Tab you'll have to browse through all of the open windows, and you CANNOT browse through windows of a specific applications (ex IE ).

Good luck on whatever you decide.

Ever enabled the taskbar grouping feature-it groups for example multiple IE,Word,Excel; windows into just a button for each. Reduces taskbar clutter.

 

[Bluefusion]

Actually, from what I've seen, it only groups items when they fill the taskbar...

And the alt-tabbing still selects windows, correct? So it's really not much of a solution, although it's a step in the right direction...

 

[aafuss1]

Does Mac OS X have a remote assitance feature-XP has that. Bluefusion-XP's file and settings wizard is more easier to use than Mac OS X, see this info:

'For people who buy a new PC or prefer to perform a clean install, Microsoft has included a powerful new feature called the File and Transfer Wizard, which lets you easily move your documents and settings from an old PC (or installation) to the new install (Figure). First, you run this wizard on the old PC, and it archives the appropriate information in a location you specify (you can even go in and fine-tune what gets saved). Then, after Windows XP is installed, you re-run the wizard and apply the files and settings to your new install. What a great idea.' (from http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/windowsxp.asp)

Also XP has an upgrade advsior that Mac OSX seems to lack-it can be used to see what applications won't work with Mac OS X. Used it on my 98 computer-easy and quite quick to create a 'upgrade report'

Does the Mac have a show in groups view-this shows files in groups (like by type-eg. Word documents would be shown in a group that says something like MS Word Documents)?

 

[aafuss1]

In Windows Media Player you can turn on SRS WOW Effects, that has TruBass and Wow effects settings-I enabled these and music sounds better than say iTunes on Macs (which doesn't have SRS Wow Effects) .Also WMP9 is skinnable, iTunes isn't.

Just to add bit more to my info about dynamic setup in XP-it downloads the most up to date,latest setup files. This ensures that Windows has the most current setup data for your system.

With Macs you have download software updates after setup, yourself manually, and you do not get recent setup files. More timeconsuming, than in Windows, where you can get setup download more recent setup files than the files found on the Windows CD. Plus you can install XP in a another way-just run Setup in Windows.

 

[5300cs]

I'm sorry, but this was like reading straight from M$s website itself.

Also XP has an upgrade advsior that Mac OSX seems to lack-it can be used to see what applications won't work with Mac OS X. Used it on my 98 computer-easy and quite quick to create a 'upgrade report'

You don't need this with Macs. M$ makes the OS, but doesn't make all the hardware so there are bound to be inconsistencies. I hope people don't see this as a 'benefit'...

In Windows Media Player you can turn on SRS WOW Effects, that has TruBass and Wow effects settings-I enabled these and music sounds better than say iTunes on Macs (which doesn't have SRS Wow Effects) .Also WMP9 is skinnable, iTunes isn't.

windows media player is the worst piece of s I have ever had the misfortune of using (along with RealPlayer.) There are a lot of people who hate it too, not just me.

With Macs you have download software updates after setup, yourself manually, and you do not get recent setup files. More timeconsuming, than in Windows, where you can get setup download more recent setup files than the files found on the Windows CD. Plus you can install XP in a another way-just run Setup in Windows.

I noticed in your sig that you have a machine with OS 8, back then you had to install updates manually. Where've you been since OS X came out? In does it for you automatically. I would NEVER download anything automatically from M$, not with all the behind-the-scenes things XP has going on (guest port, etc.)

Does the Mac have a show in groups view-this shows files in groups (like by type-eg. Word documents would be shown in a group that says something like MS Word Documents)?

Yes, it does.

And the whole argument that schools should be using PCs instead of Macs because won't be prepared when they enter the real world is a another load of bull-cookies. I found a few articles in the past saying it was nonsense, if anyone could help me find a few links..?

 

[kaizer]

I was in my friends house yesterday while he's installing a game on his XP. His whole family's pro MS. Just as he finished installing the game and he tried to run it. There's a pop up window saying there's a corrupt .dll file! I laugh my head off as he blank stare at me (he's no techie)!

I said "Sorry dude, a .dll file's gotta do with the system... and I dunno what needs to be done, except get a Mac!" Followed with a hysterical laugh! By then his brother come into the room and said "Don't get a Mac, it's only for graphics stuffs!". I'm too tired to argue... maybe when I bring my iBook over and do a little 'show and tell', maybe then...

Before you discount me as a MS hater, I tell you I'm not. I'm a recent switcher from Win98. Just hoping for a refreshing change after years of staring at the same ol' 'START' button. The only thing I regret is why I don't switch sooner!

Lot less headache (compared to 98). Ease of installation (most apps) with drag and drop (into the application folder).

No doubt XP crash alot lesser (or maybe don't at all?) but if you're getting a portable computer... nothing beats OsX's sleep function. I almost never turn off mine, just let it sleep when not in use. It's been the envy of the MS world all this while (another friend dare me to a test, both my iBook and his Wintel laptop put on sleep mode on full charge and see who last the longest... I will never know my iBook's limit, since his Wintel 'dropdead' after a couple of hours!

With the Centrino (Pentium M), Wintel machines finally catching up with Macs (or to a certain extent exceeding it) in battery life, but the credit goes to Intel, not MS. As a LS neutral friend once said, "A Centrino based laptop is a fine hardware based on a crappy software, it's like Intel's saving MS's butt and MS's getting all the credit!"

If you're a uber-geek, then MS's for you (err... shouldn't you be on Linux?), but if you're a normal user like me, then you're better off with a Mac. Trust me, I've been there.

Another story: When I'm on Win98, I used to have a friend acting as my personal IT guy, whenever I mess up my PC, I'll give him a call and he'll fix it for me!

One of my concern is that when I switch to a Mac, I'm going at it alone as he knows nothing about Mac. That scares me... Thinking back, it's only with a crappy OS you'll need some techie beside you at all time. OsX no problem!

Whenever I need help (non-urgent, since I can still use my iBook) I just drop by here and ask...

Oh yeah, if you're a Windows user, remember you'll need some time to unlearn the MS way of doing things. It even bafffles me nowadays that OsX's way of making things so easy... you know what I mean? In MS, you'll have to search high and low for slolution when something goes wrong? In OsX, it's smack in your face... I tend to get frustrated looking everywhere, just as I give up... it's right there on the desktop (case in point, Bluetooth connection).

Man, talking about unlearning something!

Oh yeah, this is not meant to scare you all, but the other day a friend installed a firewall software on his laptop. Do you know that MS Excel secretly sends some kinda information to an unknown destination everytime you use it?

Talk about big brother tactics!

Good luck to those that plan to buy the latest Office suite with Management rights!

 

[aafuss1]

Originally posted by kaizer
I was in my friends house yesterday while he's installing a game on his XP. His whole family's pro MS. Just as he finished installing the game and he tried to run it. There's a pop up window saying there's a corrupt .dll file! I laugh my head off as he blank stare at me (he's no techie)!

I said "Sorry dude, a .dll file's gotta do with the system... and I dunno what needs to be done, except get a Mac!" Followed with a hysterical laugh! By then his brother come into the room and said "Don't get a Mac, it's only for graphics stuffs!". I'm too tired to argue... maybe when I bring my iBook over and do a little 'show and tell', maybe then...

Before you discount me as a MS hater, I tell you I'm not. I'm a recent switcher from Win98. Just hoping for a refreshing change after years of staring at the same ol' 'START' button. The only thing I regret is why I don't switch sooner!

Lot less headache (compared to 98). Ease of installation (most apps) with drag and drop (into the application folder).

No doubt XP crash alot lesser (or maybe don't at all?) but if you're getting a portable computer... nothing beats OsX's sleep function. I almost never turn off mine, just let it sleep when not in use. It's been the envy of the MS world all this while (another friend dare me to a test, both my iBook and his Wintel laptop put on sleep mode on full charge and see who last the longest... I will never know my iBook's limit, since his Wintel 'dropdead' after a couple of hours!

With the Centrino (Pentium M), Wintel machines finally catching up with Macs (or to a certain extent exceeding it) in battery life, but the credit goes to Intel, not MS. As a LS neutral friend once said, "A Centrino based laptop is a fine hardware based on a crappy software, it's like Intel's saving MS's butt and MS's getting all the credit!"

If you're a uber-geek, then MS's for you (err... shouldn't you be on Linux?), but if you're a normal user like me, then you're better off with a Mac. Trust me, I've been there.

Another story: When I'm on Win98, I used to have a friend acting as my personal IT guy, whenever I mess up my PC, I'll give him a call and he'll fix it for me!

One of my concern is that when I switch to a Mac, I'm going at it alone as he knows nothing about Mac. That scares me... Thinking back, it's only with a crappy OS you'll need some techie beside you at all time. OsX no problem!

Whenever I need help (non-urgent, since I can still use my iBook) I just drop by here and ask...

Oh yeah, if you're a Windows user, remember you'll need some time to unlearn the MS way of doing things. It even bafffles me nowadays that OsX's way of making things so easy... you know what I mean? In MS, you'll have to search high and low for slolution when something goes wrong? In OsX, it's smack in your face... I tend to get frustrated looking everywhere, just as I give up... it's right there on the desktop (case in point, Bluetooth connection).

Man, talking about unlearning something!

Oh yeah, this is not meant to scare you all, but the other day a friend installed a firewall software on his laptop. Do you know that MS Excel secretly sends some kinda information to an unknown destination everytime you use it?

Talk about big brother tactics!

Good luck to those that plan to buy the latest Office suite with Management rights!

1. 'Lot less headache (compared to 98). Ease of installation (most apps) with drag and drop (into the application folder).'
Some Windows programs do not need .dll files and are supplied in .zip files for example-SysInternal's Process Explorer is about 70-100kb compressed and requires just extracting it to folder. To remove, just remove its folder.

 

[alamar]

Ok, i didn't want to get involved in this but I might as well.....

I use XP from time to time....its not that big a step from Win2k. (really its not....)

I use Win2k at work every day. Next to that box, I use my ibook. Its hands down to the ibook in my book. I telnet with the ibook. I surf with the ibook. Anything i can accomplish on it I do.

Windows has come a long way since DOS....but its still the most counterintuitive option on the face of the earth.

First off its highly claustrophobic for a multitasking system. XP looks nice, and is a step in the right direction, but it also ads tons of red tape to the most simple task. If I open a folder I want to see what is in it. My ibook would NEVER ask if I wanted to see my applications. I paid for them! (the majority of them)....get the idea?

The only real advantage to Windows (that I see) is in viewing media on the net; maybe playing games if your into that. MS media player and Real player upgrade the win versions first. Fine. Its never been an issue for me.

OSX is solid out the box. You don't need to run around hacking open this and that. I don't have to demand that it let me find something when I ask to find. Your not 3 security updates back because you went on vacation for a week.

Apps still break in windows for no apparent reason. I put a shortcut for a word dock in that space next to the start button the other day and tried to open it twice. It launched 2 copies and promptly broke word.

Looking down the road, my Apple will last me years. Also, it will run software from the late 80s no problem. I do not care how long it takes to boot. Booting is a rarity. The OS is there. It is nice to look at, it doesn't second guess my actions, and it will not let a seemingly logical action, such as removing a program, shove a shiv deep into the belly of the operating system. (I do not know how much of an issue this is with XP....)

If customization is your thing, go for it. I do not enjoy fixing computers. Windows is vulnerable. Its to easy to break. In-fact its easy to break while trying to fix, and most power users fix it right out the box.

XP is a step in the right direction for MS, but somehow they managed to screw up lots of little stuff while taking that step. It seems almost like they want things to be complicated. Users want to click and get a response.....not a host of sub options on exactly how you want to search (that one really gets me.)

The millions of apps available for Windows is a mute point. The big guns are on both sides, aside from the games. If it can be done on one someone can write code to do it on the other. I have never felt left out on my Mac....and its typically a solid bet that if Apple wrote the App, it has no equal.

As for re-skinning the OS....well if we are talking about that we are so far off topic.....forget it.


I turn on my Mac and it works, for days at a time. I turn on my PC and it works for days at a time, but half the time I feel that its working against me.

A computer should be like a microwave. You turn it on for 5 minutes and it cooks your popcorn. There should not be some middle man making suggestions before he allows you to cook. And I should not have to tool around in it to make it work right. That is the job of the guy who made the microwave. This is where MS has dropped the ball as of late.....well that's one spot....Microsoft reminds me of the guy in PopEye who keeps trying to get his hat and kicks it farther and farther each step he takes towards it.

At any rate. Its getting close to even, but Windows is still intent on bending the user to the needs of the system. An assimilation if you will.

You could put 2 english speaking yet completely computer illiterate idiots in front of 2 boxes, one XP and one OSX and I swear that hands down the OSX guy would pick it up 100% faster. Esp if their first contest was to find something.

Point F'n Blank. You will be more productive on Mac. Over a day. Over a lifetime.

 

[aafuss1]

Spring loaded folders-Windows Explorer can do this, but only in the folders Explorer bar, not in the files area. I find it useful in Windows, but in Mac OS 8/9/X 10.2, it's better implemented.
Compressed folders-with Mac OS X, you have to buy Stuffit to create .sit files, and use the Terminal to tar and gzip files-not very user friendly, for handling .gz and .tar files. XP's compressed folders function is seamsly builtin to the OS, and works quite well-Windows 98's Plus Pack was the first to have this, then built in Windows Me.
Microsoft Management console-user friendly system management function, eaiser than using the OSX Terminal on Macs. Many Windows XP functions-likedisk management functions use this-centralised system admistration. The Mac doesn't have a MMC like feature.
Windows XP at least gives you a choice between Luna and Windows classic themes-with a Mac, there is Aqua and that's it-and you have to brushed metal Finder look in X 10.3-you won't be able to choose a 10.2 style Finder theme.

 

[billyboy]

Originally posted by jxyama
been thinking about this stuff ever since i learned how to use iMovie in a matter of few hours...

i think the reason many people are so price conscious about computers is because it's seen as a tool, not a "lifestyle" accessory.

i think these are truly lifestyle accessories. and for that reason, i think price doesn't matter as much to me anymore. i want to be able to make movies. i want to be able to turn piles of old cluttering photos into a nice album. i want to have easy access to 3000 songs. because these functions are not what i consider to be tools-level, i want to do it in flying colors. i want it to be easy and intuitive. and i believe apple lets me do just that... (notice i never said windows machines can't do all the above - i know you can do the same on windows. but it's not included with the OS and/or it's not as elegantly implemented...)

i realize it's a vague concept - "tools" vs. "lifestyle accessories" but maybe some of us can understand what i'm talking about...

so PC being cheaper, XP being more stable, etc... doesn't really matter to me. for work, i think i'll be able to use PC just as before, but i can't imagine not having a mac for the "fun" part of my life.

That is a great summary. A Mac is not simply a tool in a box, it can genuinely enrich your life and get some really useful order into the way you do things.

I have never had so much useful fun as since I got the hang of OSX freebies, iTunes and iPhoto. But equally importantly, I use them almost every day when Im teaching English to foreign students. We have PCs and multi media programmes at work, but what a fag to try and organise anything. Maybe its our fault for being technophobes, but a lot of the resources never get used from one year to the next.

I got a Mac at Christmas and Im multi media teacherboy now and can well imagine how bored the kids were before with photocopies of magazine pictures and out of date material. iApps make it so easy for me to keep students interested and on their toes, Describing a picture in a foreign language is one of the hardest exercises there is, and they actually dont mind now as I flick through albums asking, What´s this, that and the other. The hardest thing is to fill in the blanks in songs. I pick a trendy tune, click an Applescript that usually gets me the lyrics, drag them into Textedit, remove words and print off the lesson. Music is a great draw to get students to learn a langage. My greatest victory is an adult who could barely say his own name in English, and now he can rattle off "Bitch" by Meredith Brookes, and translate it word for word!

Trust me, I actualy enjoy preparing lessons and I dont think I will never get a stale old phogey, and I definitely forgot the pain of handing over €3000 for a "tool" I knew about only by reputation.

And now I just weep when I see colleagues trying to do stuff with Winamp, scrolling through screens of folders looking for songs. Its like, why didnt they finish the programme and end up with the no brainer console on iTunes?

Its been a very liberating experience with OSX.

 

[aafuss1]

In Windows-I can change the screen resolution easily-just by right clicking on the 'Intel Extreme Graphics' system tray icon and then select Display Modes from menu that appears, then the color depth then the screen resolution. On Mac OS X-you could do that via System Preference or maybe via the Finder.

 

[scem0]

being a switcher from OS X to XP I can say that there is no competition.

XP is bulky and ugly. Even with the classic theme and all the performance tweaks on it is bulky and slow. Applications are buggy, it is virus prone, games don't play as well on it (as opposed to previous MS OS's), and it is annoying as hell. Typical microsoft. But it is functional, which is enough for me.

But after a year with XP I can't wait to get a mac. Switching from OS X to XP has helped me realize that speed isn't that big of an issue. OS X makes up for the time lost from a slow g4, and the fast Intel and AMD processors make up for the time lost by Windows.

All in all mac os x is a MUCH better OS, for many, many reasons. XP is a downgrade from Windows 98 and 2000, and can't even begin to compare to OS X.

scem0

 

[5300cs]

Originally posted by aafuss1
In Windows-I can change the screen resolution easily-just by right clicking on the 'Intel Extreme Graphics' system tray icon and then select Display Modes from menu that appears, then the color depth then the screen resolution. On Mac OS X-you could do that via System Preference or maybe via the Finder.

again?

Go to System Preferences once, click on "Show Displays menu in bar" and from then on you can change the resolution & color depth with one click !

Have you actually used OS X?

 

[aafuss1]

In OSX are all the screen resolution modes in the Display icon menu all together or logically sorted into categories (like my Intel graphics driver's system tray icon sorts display modes into three categories-high color, 256 colors and true color)? Could some post ascreenshot of OSX's display menu in fimder option showing screen resolutions?

 

[sushi]

Originally posted by aafuss1
In OSX are all the screen resolution modes in the Display icon menu all together or logically sorted into categories (like my Intel graphics driver's system tray icon sorts display modes into three categories-high color, 256 colors and true color)? Could some post ascreenshot of OSX's display menu in fimder option showing screen resolutions?

I have a single 22 inch Cinema Display attached to my system.

When I select the icon in the menu bar I see all resolutions from 640x480 through 1600x1024. The colors available at any resolution are 256 Colors, Thousands and Millions.

While I do not have a multi monitor system, I have seen one where the same icon had two sections, one for each display with the resolutions and color settings.

Simple to do with Mac OS X

Sushi

 

[5300cs]

Here's the menu. I can't imagine how much simpler it could get. I have two monitors and it lets me do everything from withing this menu.

 

[Bluefusion]

X is just a clearly superior system to XP... it should be rather obvious, but for some reason there are still those who can't seem to get it..

That's what we're here for, I suppose...

 

[benixau]

Originally posted by Bluefusion
X is just a clearly superior system to XP... it should be rather obvious, but for some reason there are still those who can't seem to get it..

That's what we're here for, I suppose...

yeah, i know:

we call 'em loosers or idiots
apple calls em potential customers
pc zealots call em brothers
MS calls em $$$$$$$$$$$$

why did i buy a mac? cause if i bought another pc my uncle would have to travel 30mins to fix it every other day.

oh and i wanted airburst

 

[Photorun]

XP is bloatware. And run enough apps while uploading and downloading files from servers while taxing the RAM you can get XP to crash where as OS X only just gets darned slow.

Also XP is just a poor copy of OS X in some of it's looks, why not just get and use the original, go with OS X.

/endkneejerk

 

[ColoJohnBoy]

I have used Windows since 3.1 when my father bought our first family computer in 1993. I have also used Macs from about the same time (not sure which OS was being used, but I wasn't really cognizant of those things). Last May I switched to Mac.

Macs are better than PCs.

PCs do have their good points. I really liked using 2000 and XP is nice because of its more integrated and intuitive interface. But there is one thing that Apple has that Windows never will: iApps.
iTunes is the best. It blows WMP out of the water. It doesn't bring up ads when you open it, it's far easier to use and organize, and it's much better looking (opinion) than WMP. You're not going to find anything nearly as good as the iApps for PC, unless, of course, Apple ports all of them. Also, Safari is by far and away the better web browser than IE. It's faster, simpler, and better looking.

Overall, I think OS X is the better choice for those reasons: faster, simpler, and better looking. XP was a huge step over 95/98/ME. OSX is even better.

 

[wheet]

G5 performace...

i just have to point out that problems with G5 performance are entirely software based. OS X.2 "runs" on a G5, yes, but it is nowhere near optimized. We really have to wait to see what happens with the whole XLC vs. GCC issue -- what Apple builds the final release of Panther with, what 3rd party developers use, and so on. When both code and compiler are fully "aware" of how a G5 runs, THEN it will be time to get some benchmarks, and make some actual performance comparisons. Apple shoved the G5 out the door as fast as they possibly could, just to get it on the market. "Smeagol"...? What's that all about!? With Panther just around the corner, it would've been a no-brainer to release the two together. BUT... As everyone knows, Apple needed to announce the G5... it was simply imperative. I will certainly get a G5, but not until there's something to run on it that will really make use of its strenghts.
The very fact that the G5s are testing only slightly faster, clock-per-clock, than the G4s -- given the multitude of improvements made to the G5 architecture (which, by the way, are largely based on standards used in the Wintel/AMD world) -- should make people realize that hardware is not to blame... The only thing I'm nervous about is the choice of PCI-X over PCI-Extreme.

Of course, this all ultimately relates to "market share." It's a simple fact that more developers will be writing XP apps, there's more $$$ going into Wintel research and development, and so on. What always makes me scratch my head is how people forget that this massive majority SHOULD result in better performance, of both hardware and software, and SHOULD be cheaper for the end-user. This being the case, a Windoze box should be around 20 times faster, be 20 times as user-friendly, and 20 times less expensive.... The fact is, it's not. That Apple has even survived this long proves (I think) that it will continue to survive. Apple is an innovative company, and I certianly hope that innovation cannot be overcome by sheer market power.

I use an XP P4 1.8, side-by-side with an OS X.2 G4 733. Obviously, the P4 is faster. But, at more than double the clock-speed, and double the RAM speed, it better be! To be honest, I seldom notice the difference in speed. However, I much prefer using the Mac. OS X is, on the whole, a more enjoyable user experience. And anyone who thinks this is a trivial point is probably under some serious delusions about the function of computers in our daily lives. When people today spend hours-on-end at the computer, by choice or by necessity, the "beauty" or "comfort" of the OS is of tremendous importance. Ease of use and reliability are, of course, essential as well. My PC needs virtually constant attention. My Mac I don't worry about. The Mac is far easier to configure, in almost any situation -- software, hardware, network, etc. Of course, the PC is more "tweakable", but I really haven't seen much improvement from the tweaks I've tried. On the other hand, if you are so inclined, the Terminal allows a whole new universe of tweak-headedness for OS X users.
Ultimately, I have to admit to sharing the simplistic attitude that "the Mac just works."

The worst thing that could ever happen for computer users of the future would be for everybody, everywhere, to be using XP alone... or, for that matter, OS X. Diversity is the key to evolution.

As for G5 performance, hold your thoughts for a few months.