OSX Based iPods In August?

[Lara F]

No way, no how. It is not gonna have wifi. There is no reason for it to have wifi. It will not run the web, email or any other net utilities. If you want a device that does all that, it already exists, it's called the iPhone.

An iPhone that many people just aren't in a position to get because of contract ties or other valid reasons for preferring another company (in my case I need to be able to call Canada without extra long distance fees). How fair is that? It's not like the extra features/power in a MBP that's at least more open (in comparison) to everyone.

 

[peharri]

Look for the word Infineon in the disection of the hardware at the end of the review.

People are reading way too much into this.

The chip involved is one component (I believe it concentrates on digital signal processing) of a much larger device, and it's designed to be generic. It has W-CDMA support, but only because it's a generalized device, and in order to work it needs to be provided with a full 5MHz W-CDMA input signal to actually process.

If the iPhone supports, on a hardware level, UMTS, then it needs much more than one component to do that. The radio has to be ready. There's no evidence that the radio actually is able to process anything other than the usual 200kHz GSM signals.

This is the equivalent of finding a general purpose chip on an Apple motherboard that supports PS/2 keyboards and mice (there probably is one, Apple's hardware these days uses very standard parts), and assuming that this means the next version of Mac OS X will "enable" PS/2 input device support. Well, how are you going to plug them in? ;-)

This is just a standard, off-the-shelf, component and it supports more functionality than it needs to. It's safe to bet that the iPhone, in its revision 1 form, will be EDGE forever. No UMTS support will ever come down in the form of a software update.

FWIW, AT&T has just bought a metric crapload of AWS spectrum, specifically for UMTS. The Rev. 1 iPhone doesn't support those frequencies. When a UMTS iPhone comes out, you can bet AT&T will want it to be able to use AWS.

(And another thing, this chip supports W-CDMA but apparently there's no support for HSDPA. W-CDMA, in its plain, boring, form, isn't that much faster than EDGE. EDGE's theoretical max is 236.8kbps, vs "plain" W-CDMA's 384kbps. You need the HSDPA improvements to start getting real bandwidth and tolerable latency out of UMTS.)

 

[motulist]

How can you be so certain? Know something we don't?

Personally I'm not sure, either way.

I'm certain because there's no reason for an iPod to run the net. If they do put wifi in, it won't be to run the net. "iPod" as a brand means something very specific, it's known as the coolest music player ever, and Apple has poured an ENORMOUS amount of marketing money into making it mean that. They are not going to do anything to dilute that brand message. Why do you think the iPhone is called the iPhone and not the iPod Phone like they did on the iPod Photo and the iPod with Video? "iPod" as a brand has always meant the ultimate portable music device. iPhone is now being developed to mean the ultimate all-around portable wireless device. If Apple is going to come out with a device that has any real internet abilities, it's not gonna be in their iPod device category, it's gonna be more along the lines of an iPhone nano device which would be an additional device separate from and alongside the iPod devices.

It's just marketing 101, and Apple is the king of marketing. There's just no way they're gonna dilute the iPod brand. Especially not when they are on the verge of creating a whole new category of devices that they can be king of which would be in addition to maintaining their music player dominance.

Bottom line: if a portable apple device has any real internet capabilities it will get branded as some sort of iPhone and will be produced in addition to their other iPod devices that are produced at the same time. And the two devices in each separated category will never overlap much.

 

[sishaw]

Look for the word Infineon in the disection of the hardware at the end of the review.

This is what it says:

"The IC in the lower-left is purported to be a Multimedia Engine by Infineon by several sources. However, the markings on this device do not match up with any Infineon devices as far as we could tell. This particular part is a jack-of-all trades that can decode/encode audio formats, decode H.264 video, perform EDGE modem capabilities, and interface with Bluetooth, FM radio, and other systems, as well as drive the camera and the high-resolution display. (Edited for clarity.)"

This statement in no way suggests a 3G capability, although, interestingly, it does say "EDGE modem capabilities." Maybe that capability will be made available at some point via software update?

 

[QCassidy352]

I disagree.

I've wanted the "iPhone without the phone" since Steve spoke of the three devices. I was disappointed that the cool ones were brought low by the most obnoxious technology developed in the past quarter-century. Aside from the annoyance that I would be stuck with AT&T, I simply do not like possessing a cell phone. When "they" invent the technology that allows others to call me only when I want to hear from them (or when it isn't dangerous to talk), I might like it. But until that day comes, cell phones are more trouble than they are worth)

Actually, some cell phone makers are now including a feature that allows people to only reach you when you want to be reached. They call it an "off button." ;-)

 

[whatever]

It does make some sense to have the new ipod come out in August. If you read the Buyer's Guide you see that the last two ipods (5G and 5.5G) came out 11 months apart on the same day. (October 12 and September 12) If Apple stuck to the average then the Ipod would come out on August 12. This isn't likely but I sure as hell hope that it happens.

My 6G Ipod
Widescreen with touch capabilities
80GB (low end) 120 GB (High end)
wifi
Optional Camera (for more money)
OSX
Itunes store
You Tube
Radio
Voice Recording
Speaker Built in (Better than the iPhone's speaker)

The iTunes store will never be available in a mobile device (iPod or iPhone) mainly because of support issues. Imagine if you will someone sitting in a Starbucks and they hear a Beach Boys song (don't ask why I picked them) which reminds them of their lost youth. They connect into the iTunes Store and download the album. They finish their coffe and and realize that they're late for a meeting, so they rush out, breaking their download connection. Thus forcing them contact support....

Now do you see why this feature will never be available. On the Apple TV someday, but never on an iPod or iPhone.

 

[emotion]

This is what it says:

"The IC in the lower-left is purported to be a Multimedia Engine by Infineon by several sources. However, the markings on this device do not match up with any Infineon devices as far as we could tell. This particular part is a jack-of-all trades that can decode/encode audio formats, decode H.264 video, perform EDGE modem capabilities, and interface with Bluetooth, FM radio, and other systems, as well as drive the camera and the high-resolution display. (Edited for clarity.)"

This statement in no way suggests a 3G capability, although, interestingly, it does say "EDGE modem capabilities." Maybe that capability will be made available at some point via software update?

"Edited for clarity" - I read the pre-editted version that mentioned 3G. Please see the other iPhone threads as to why it's impossible for Apple to succeed in the European market with a non-3G phone. However this is not the place for this discussion

 

[emotion]

I'm certain because there's no reason for an iPod to run the net. If they do put wifi in, it won't be to run the net. "iPod" as a brand means something very specific, it's known as the coolest music player ever, and Apple has poured an ENORMOUS amount of marketing money into making it mean that. They are not going to do anything to dilute that brand message. Why do you think the iPhone is called the iPhone and not the iPod Phone like they did on the iPod Photo and the iPod with Video? "iPod" as a brand has always meant the ultimate portable music device. iPhone is now being developed to mean the ultimate all-around portable wireless device. If Apple is going to come out with a device that has any real internet abilities, it's not gonna be in their iPod device category, it's gonna be more along the lines of an iPhone nano device which would be an additional device separate from and alongside the iPod devices.

It's just marketing 101, and Apple is the king of marketing. There's just no way they're gonna dilute the iPod brand. Especially not when they are on the verge of creating a whole new category of devices that they can be king of which would be in addition to maintaining their music player dominance.

Bottom line: if a portable apple device has any real internet capabilities it will get branded as some sort of iPhone and will be produced in addition to their other iPod devices that are produced at the same time. And the two devices in each separated category will never overlap much.

The walkman was the "coolest music ever" until 5 years ago.

Walkman's these days are phones, with 3G, wifi, hires cameras etc

The iPod brand is there for Apple to make money off. That's the only purity in it.

 

[emotion]

People are reading way too much into this.

The chip involved is one component (I believe it concentrates on digital signal processing) of a much larger device, and it's designed to be generic. It has W-CDMA support, but only because it's a generalized device, and in order to work it needs to be provided with a full 5MHz W-CDMA input signal to actually process.

If the iPhone supports, on a hardware level, UMTS, then it needs much more than one component to do that. The radio has to be ready. There's no evidence that the radio actually is able to process anything other than the usual 200kHz GSM signals.

This is the equivalent of finding a general purpose chip on an Apple motherboard that supports PS/2 keyboards and mice (there probably is one, Apple's hardware these days uses very standard parts), and assuming that this means the next version of Mac OS X will "enable" PS/2 input device support. Well, how are you going to plug them in? ;-)

This is just a standard, off-the-shelf, component and it supports more functionality than it needs to. It's safe to bet that the iPhone, in its revision 1 form, will be EDGE forever. No UMTS support will ever come down in the form of a software update.

FWIW, AT&T has just bought a metric crapload of AWS spectrum, specifically for UMTS. The Rev. 1 iPhone doesn't support those frequencies. When a UMTS iPhone comes out, you can bet AT&T will want it to be able to use AWS.

(And another thing, this chip supports W-CDMA but apparently there's no support for HSDPA. W-CDMA, in its plain, boring, form, isn't that much faster than EDGE. EDGE's theoretical max is 236.8kbps, vs "plain" W-CDMA's 384kbps. You need the HSDPA improvements to start getting real bandwidth and tolerable latency out of UMTS.)

Agreed on all points. I've been harping on about a lot of those points a lot on here recently. As I say this thread is an ipod thread though.

 

[MonkeyClaw]

I like the scroll wheel in the current iPod because I can pause, skip and adjust volume without looking.

That would probably be lost with a touchscreen....

Unless maybe they can do something like this:
One tap makes the music pause. Two finger tap (or maybe a double tap) causes it to skip the song. Sliding your finger adjusts the volume.

Hmm... maybe it's not that practical. But if they throw in an ambient light sensor (which also adjusts the screen brightness), it would know when it's in your pocket because of the darkness. And when it knows it's in your pocket, then those controls become available so you can do them anywhere on the screen.

Of course it could get tight in a pocket, so tapping may not be possible. But maybe they could be simple gestures instead.

Again, it would know when it's in your pocket. And if it has an accelerometer in it, it can know which way is "down" regardless of what orientation it's at inside your pocket. Though I'd imagine it's always going to be with the earphone jack pointing up.

ANYway.... so... simple gestures... sliding a finger changes volume, doing a circular motion can skip a song. Sliding two fingers pauses the song.

And... going back to the "it knows which way is down" thing, it can therefore determine if it's a clockwise or counter-clockwise motion you're making. So you can even skip backwards.

Or maybe the circular motion can be used to change volume, like the click wheel. And the sides of the screen closest to the edge of the iPod are reserved for "back" and "forward" and "pause" commands.

Maybe it's too complicated, but it's an idea! 🙂

I love this idea!

 

[lord patton]

Imagine if you will someone sitting in a Starbucks and they hear a Beach Boys song (don't ask why I picked them) which reminds them of their lost youth. They connect into the iTunes Store and download the album. They finish their coffe and and realize that they're late for a meeting, so they rush out, breaking their download connection. Thus forcing them contact support....

How does that differ from you home network going down in the middle of a download? That happens all the time, and it doesn't require contacting support... you just finish downloading later.

Companies make money from impulse buyers... lots of it. iTS will come to iPhone, and any WiFi iPod, should one come to exist.

 

[vandlism]

They finish their coffe and and realize that they're late for a meeting, so they rush out, breaking their download connection. Thus forcing them contact support.....

I take it you have never closed a MacBook or lost power during a download. Handy little "Check for Purchases" button in iTunes. It sets things right.

 

[mandoman]

Widescreen/Iphone form factor - this brings economics
of scale if parts can be shared between ipod and iphone
= lower cost to produce.

Coverflow, games, ical definate.

Maybe a camera, probably not though

No wifi this iteration! Why? NOT because it would cannibalize
iphone sales (two different markets), but because Apple
likes to trickle out features so Apple Fanbois buy a new ipod
every year. Expect a WiFi ipod in late 2008.

October release

 

[Gurnatronic]

iTunes

Can you please just add one feature of the iPhone to iTunes please .... You know when in coverflow on the iPhone an select an album an it kinda flips over and you can select the song from the list there... add it to iTunes in full screen coverflow mode please, even if i have to use the (increasingly antiquated)

 

[RoboCop001]

I love this idea!

Thanks! I figure the last part would probably be most practical and best for transitioning from scroll wheel to touchscreen.

Just a refinement...
Instead of the ambient light sensor to detect if it's in a pocket or not, I guess it should be a proximity sensor? Maybe that would be better. Because you never know when you'll have your iPod out of your pocket, and it's pitch black outside, or in the room.

Anyway... since it could have an accelerometer in it to detect "which way is down", therefore no matter what orientation it is in your pocket, the "left" side of the iPod will always be "skip backwards" and the "right" side of the iPod will always be "skip forwards". And anywhere else on the screen, when you do a circular motion it makes the volume go up and down. So when you tap (or slide your finger in a short motion if it's a tight-fit in the pocket) on, say, the "right" side of the iPod, it goes to the next song.

Or maybe there could be an option to have fixed locations be "skip forward" and "skip backward". Oh, and "play/pause" can be at the bottom (maybe also at the top?). So yeah... just tap, or do a really short slide motion, and it does one of those commands depending what edge of the screen you're touching.

So that's the "virtual sides" idea.

The "fixed commands mode" could be this way.... there's going to be a headphone jack on it right? That's the top of the iPod. So, just feel where the headphone jack is, and the left side of the screen in relation to the jack (that being the top of the iPod) is "skip backwards", and so forth.

And that's the "true sides" idea.

Of course, when you're holding the iPod in your hand, these commands wouldn't be active. You'd just use the on-screen ones like they have on iPhone.

It could work! I should patent this or something. First Canadian iPod patent! Then Apple will buy it from me and I'll make trillions.

 

[ccrandall77]

Paris Expo

As a follow on to my previous comment about the likelihood that a new iPod would coincide with the end of the back to school sale, it seems to me that last year the Paris Expo was around 9/12 which was when the last refresh occurred. My money is on both new iPods and Leopard at the Paris Expo... not necessarily available that day, but probably the iPods would be immediately available and they'll announce the day in Oct that Leopard will be available.

 

[Digitaljim]

I sure hope they go all the way to one third HD resolution instead of iPhone res. In any event I will definately be getting the one with the largest capacity as I now have almost 2TB of iPod compatible files sitting on four 500GB USB drives with more than 2TB of original EyeTV recordings still to be ripped down to another TB or so..

I bet you'd be pissed off if the new iPod only supported wmv or xvid or something 😉

 

[age234]

exactly - the tactile feel is very important in an iPod - While Apple can probably get away with all touch screen on something like the iPhone I think the novelty will wear off very quickly on a music/video player like the iPod

That is an interesting point. If Apple intends for the iPod to remain a media player only, the only advantage to going the iPhone way is the large screen for watching videos.

iPhone needs the fullscreen design because of all the different UI possibilities. But try skipping to the next song on an iPhone while driving, I don't think you can do it without looking. You can with an iPod.

Maybe, then, a touchsceen iPod would be the start of a new line of premium iPods geared towards video, a "Pod Pro", if you will. There is still a place for the clickwheel, which works great because you don't need to look at it to do basic functions.

Maybe the "Pod Pro" would be the "iPhone without the phone", then, which would join as a new line aside iPod, Nano, and Shuffle, and include wifi and non-phone communication functions.

 

[dontwalkhand]

It would be cool to have the ipod be a PDA/portable web browser type device as well, I wouldn't mind it 🙂 if it doesn't, I would still buy it, as hopefully it would be a true video iPod.

 

[PURCELL429]

Am I the only one that thinks a touch screen iPod is a step backward when your current iPod has probably one of the best controls ever on an electronic device, the click wheel!

I actually wish that the iPhone had a small click wheel a the bottom in addition to the touch screen.

what a shame - I guess people dont remember what a pain in the ass the 3g iPods were with those touch button controls. I couldnt use it while snowboarding, I would accidentaly tap pause instead of skip forward when using it in the car, it was terrible.

and yes I do have an iPhone and love the multi-touch but please keep the click wheel on the iPod.

First off, I loved the 3G ipods interface...sadly i broke the screen on it (other than that, it still works (anyone know where to get a cheap screen from?) so i "upgraded" to a 5G...the new style of buttons save space for the screen...but 3 disadvantages:

1) accidental button pushes while in my pocket! I know there is a lock button...but still...nothing but your fingers would work the buttons

2)more responsive buttons...only the slightest tap was necessary...my new one, i find i have to push buttons more than once on occasion...plus the scroll wheel is much less sensitive...i find myself scrolling too far or not far enough a lot of the time, even after months of use...as for the not being able to operate it with gloves on...you cant scroll through menus or change the volume with the new one either if your wearing gloves..

3)red backlighting! looked so cool...I could use it in the dark!

so now that im done with that rant....

I was holding on to my 3g for so long because i have been waiting for the touchscreen ipods for years now (unrealistically i realize...) because the small screen isnt that conducive to watching video...

But it seems to me that the new ipod will look something like this, after reading this thread:

-Touchscreen (same screen and display as iphone to cut costs)
-ghost wheel (i saw a fake one a year ago on some website)...a semi transparent scroll wheel on one side of the ipod that changes orientation with the ipod that disappears when you take your hand off the screen.
-NO WIFI (at least no safari) if you have safari and mail...there is no point to have an iphone...besides, it would kill battery life and cut down on space to put a HD in
-Bluetooth? Headphones, car accessories, remote, ect.
-No flash memory (still too expensive and small capacity) They wouldnt dare release ipods with storage capacities of 8, 16, and 32 gigs (since 32 is the biggest ssd drives avaliable (and costs something like $500)

Apple doesnt want to eat sales of the iphone...so you get a fullscreen videoplayer/music player w/touchscreen and large capacity. Who would buy a $600 8gig iphone when you could buy the same thing but 80gigs for $399 minus the phone? Morons?

When will it come out? Id guess by Christmas hopefully...(crossing fingers)

 

[Mugs]

How cool would it be if the home screen was like the new front row in leopard!!!! so you flick to the next thing n they're all in a circle!!! i wud soooooo buy that!! bt i'll buy woteva comes out cus my ipod is like sooooooo nearly dead! hopes its in august as well!

 

[broncopde]

Thanks! I figure the last part would probably be most practical and best for transitioning from scroll wheel to touchscreen.

Just a refinement...
Instead of the ambient light sensor to detect if it's in a pocket or not, I guess it should be a proximity sensor? Maybe that would be better. Because you never know when you'll have your iPod out of your pocket, and it's pitch black outside, or in the room.

Anyway... since it could have an accelerometer in it to detect "which way is down", therefore no matter what orientation it is in your pocket, the "left" side of the iPod will always be "skip backwards" and the "right" side of the iPod will always be "skip forwards". And anywhere else on the screen, when you do a circular motion it makes the volume go up and down. So when you tap (or slide your finger in a short motion if it's a tight-fit in the pocket) on, say, the "right" side of the iPod, it goes to the next song.

Or maybe there could be an option to have fixed locations be "skip forward" and "skip backward". Oh, and "play/pause" can be at the bottom (maybe also at the top?). So yeah... just tap, or do a really short slide motion, and it does one of those commands depending what edge of the screen you're touching.

So that's the "virtual sides" idea.

The "fixed commands mode" could be this way.... there's going to be a headphone jack on it right? That's the top of the iPod. So, just feel where the headphone jack is, and the left side of the screen in relation to the jack (that being the top of the iPod) is "skip backwards", and so forth.

And that's the "true sides" idea.

Of course, when you're holding the iPod in your hand, these commands wouldn't be active. You'd just use the on-screen ones like they have on iPhone.

It could work! I should patent this or something. First Canadian iPod patent! Then Apple will buy it from me and I'll make trillions.

Going along with the iPod having OSX, these features could be activated through hot corners. I'm thinking that'd be good for apple to do in reaching out to potential switchers from windows: the more osx features apple can work into the ipod, the better for us and apple's marketshare.

 

[barcodebawtv]

Front Row on ipod

How cool would it be if the home screen was like the new front row in leopard!!!! so you flick to the next thing n they're all in a circle!!! i wud soooooo buy that!! bt i'll buy woteva comes out cus my ipod is like sooooooo nearly dead! hopes its in august as well!

Now that would flippin' rule! That would be a very attractive selling point in my eyes.

 

[PygmySurfer]

Anyone else think it will be a portable TV with a touch screen.

Makes kinda sense. They can use the same OS plug-ins. I am just a little unsure whether or not it will have wi-fi......

hmmmmm

I think that'd be perfect. Ship it with a dock, which you can use to charge it and hook it up to your TV and Home Theatre. It could actually replace the current Apple TV product.

 

[twoodcc]

Well I sure hope that this is true. Well see