OSX did not live upto all the hype for me...

Discussion in 'macOS' started by coolspot18, Jan 28, 2012.

  1. coolspot18, Jan 28, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2012

    coolspot18 macrumors 65816

    Aug 16, 2010
    I switched over from a Windows computer about 6 months ago, but overall I feel a bit let down with OSX:

    1. Finder is an absolute dog in comparison to Windows Explorer. Finder is inconsistent (i.e. folder merge doesn't work all the time, etc.), difficult to use, and seems to be an outdated file manager. My biggest pet peeve with Finder is that it doesn't sort folders on top; doesn't think seem to make sense rather than scanning through 1000 entries to find a folder? Thankfully TotalFinder saved the day for me - but at the cost of another $18.00.

    2. Mac apps seem to lag in quality in comparison to Windows equivalents. i.e. finding a decent, stable, compression/decompression tool was a challenge. Closest I could come is BetterZip. Is there a decent RAR utility? Is there a good (free?) download manager for OSX beside JDownloader? Chrome and Flash don't work well in OSX. QuickTime has poor codec support even with Perian, I need to rely on VLC/mPlayer to properly play my video files.

    3. OSX Lion networking isn't the greatest. OSX could do with a network browser.

    4. Things keep changing between versions of OSX causing incompatibilities. i.e. Hyperspaces worked great on Snow Leopard but stopped with Lion because Apple removed some APIs. This rarely happens in the Windows world.

    5. Speaking of API changes - Time Machine stopped working with my old NAS because of a AFP change.

    I can go on... but I think you guys get the point.

    OSX has some great features going for it like Time Machine backups, iMovie, FaceTime, Mail.app, but when you peer underneath, OSX seems quite unpolished in comparison to Windows 7.

    Perhaps my expectations are higher considering a Mac costs 2 - 3x more than a PC... therefore it should be somewhat better no?

    I wonder how OSX will stack up against Windows 8?

    Perhaps now that Steve isn't around, maybe Apple can make some meaningful changes to the OS?
  2. TEG macrumors 604


    Jan 21, 2002
    Langley, Washington
    I find this to be more true of Windows Explorer than Finder, but both are relics.

    That is because it is built-in to the OS. 7-Zip is the best for all-around archives.

    There is a Network Browser, it is called... "Finder".

    Removing APIs isn't a bad thing, it is often useful to remove them to force migration to more secure/faster APIs, or to increase security and stability. Because Windows rarely does this, it is highly unstable. Also, the issue is more likely the removal of PPC compatible code in Lion.

    NAS's aren't officially supported by TM, so it isn't Apple's fault.

    In no way does a Mac cost more than a Windows machine when comparing exact specs. Windows 8 looks really bad (I'm using the developer version now). OS X is nearly perfect for a desktop OS, and has the power and strength of UNIX behind it.

  3. Intell macrumors P6


    Jan 24, 2010
    Finder isn't that bad. Once one lets go of one's anarchic ways of file managing, it's really easy to use.

    The built in zip/unzip utility is very good and works well for me. RAR's are an outdated form of file compression that shouldn't be used. In Mac OS X, the best browser to use is Safari. I don't use Safari, but Firefox 9 works really well, much better then its Windows counterpart. QuickTime is designed to work with open codecs like h264. When you do play one of its native formats, it works really well.

    While Lion isn't the best with networking, Windows 7 Service Pack 0 wasn't free from network bugs either. Lion does have a network browser. Press Command-Shift-K and it'll open the Network for you.

    Mac OS X cross version compatibility is some of the best on the market. Rivaled only by iOS. The problem with Hyperspaces is that it was using a private API. Private API's are subject to change without description. Whereas public API's generally stay the same for at least two 10.X versions. Windows has many issues with API problems as well. For example, when upgrading to Vista from XP, very few of my drivers worked. Why? Microsoft changed the way the drivers interacted with the kernel. This is one example of many cross Windows version problems I've run across in NT kernel based versions alone.

    The change in the AFP is a protocol change not an API change. Contact your NAS provider for a firmware upgrade or reenable the older AFP version in Lion.
  4. blueroom macrumors 603


    Feb 15, 2009
    Toronto, Canada
    I use XRAR (rar extraction) and Xee (jpg viewer)

    IMO OSX is worlds better than Windows.
  5. coolspot18, Jan 28, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2012

    coolspot18 thread starter macrumors 65816

    Aug 16, 2010
    The built in zip utility does not allow you to browse archive and selectively unzip a single file. RAR is 20-years newer as a format than PKZip, which was developed in the 80s.

    I'm looking for a good RAR archiver if one exists, preferably with a GUI.

    As for Finder, I guess I was most disappointed that the merge function did not work as expected... It makes it a chore to merge directories together; I had to use parallels to do that properly.

    Thanks for reminding me about Xee, I was getting sick of ACDSee's poor mac version.
  6. scottsjack macrumors 68000

    Aug 25, 2010
    As a user of both OSs (on the same computers) there are some things that OS X and its related applications do better and some things that work better on Windows.

    For example consider EyeTV, iTunes and iPhoto. There are just no ways to do the same things on Windows with the ease and beauty of Mac. The Windows Live Essentials equivalents just plain suck.

    OTOH Photoshop, Excel and Word work so much better under Windows 7. I have the latests versions on both systems. The Mac versions are definitely OK but just don't work as well as the Windows versions. Then of course there is the scourge of all Mac users, Quicken.

    Such is life. . .
  7. coolspot18 thread starter macrumors 65816

    Aug 16, 2010
    I agree, iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie are marvellous on the Mac; nothing comparable on the PC.

    However, long time Mac users say that OSX is rock solid in comparison to Windows, but after using it for the last few months it is the same if not less stable than Windows 7.

    In fact... I just had to reboot my computer due to a networking kernel panic... dunno why.
  8. balamw Moderator


    Staff Member

    Aug 16, 2005
    New England
    The Unarchiver http://wakaba.c3.cx/s/apps/unarchiver is a standard install for me on all my Macs. Not sure if it meets your needs though. (Windows also requires some add-on for better archive file support so this IMHO is a wash).

  9. Mackilroy macrumors 68040


    Jun 29, 2006
    There are always exceptions to the rule. Having an exception does not disprove the rule. In seventeen years of using Macs, I've had about five kernel panics – and all but one of those were caused by something I was doing (mostly related to when I was adding a 4890 to my Mac Pro a couple years back).
  10. Mr. Retrofire macrumors 603

    Mr. Retrofire

    Mar 2, 2010
    Correct. No API for software developers, no tabs and so on.

    RAR is obsolete, slow and provides less compression than the .7z format. 7-zip runs on all major platforms, like Linux (p7zip), Mac OS X (p7zip), BSD (p7zip), Windows XP-7.

    I use DownThemAll within Firefox 3.6.x. Newer versions of FF are a joke, even on Mac OS X.

    In most cases you do not need them. Chrome is spyware and i recommend that you disable all plugins, and that you enable them only, if you really need them.

    QuickTime + Perian is like WMP + FFDShow. I recommend VLC for wmv-files, because it has an optimized decoder.

    Mac OS 9.x.x had a network browser. :mad:

    Correct. And if you have some old programs, you can download XP Mode for free.

    Yeah, that Mac OS X Lion is
    failure in Apples Mac OS X history.

    I can see machines from Dell & HP for the same price as a Quad-Core 17" (matte) MBP, and they are not much better.

    Depends on the market. Apple makes a lot of money with iPhones and other "iToys", not with Mac OS X. So expect less useful features in Mac OS X 10.8.

    Is that one of your dreams, or what!? Meaningful changes? *lol*
  11. Damers macrumors regular

    Jun 2, 2010
    There, fixed that for ya. I think plenty of people would agree, Lion isn't apple's best work.
  12. r0k macrumors 68040


    Mar 3, 2008
    I deal with Win 7 during the day and look forward to seeing OS X Lion every evening...

    1 - Bluetooth mouse support. Every day, my Windows box comes out of hibernation and I'm left without a bluetooth mouse for anywhere from 10 to 30 minutes. I've never had this happen on OS X.

    2 - Internet Explorer. Let me count the ways I hate it. Slow to launch. Slow to load pages. Buggy. And some IT folks at my job insist on creating pages with features that won't work properly in any browser other than IE.

    3 - Windows Explorer. What a piece of junk. I've seen a lot of threads bashing Finder, but if I'm doing something in one window, Finder updates its window in real time. On Windows 7, when I open a file in MS Office, it creates a lock file. I then exit and the lock file is still there. Or is it? It is gone but Windows Explorer doesn't update until I force it. What's it busy doing if not showing me the state of the filesystem in real time? BTW, I use totalfinder which is a plug-in for Finder that gives me exactly one tabbed finder window and an easy shortcut for "cut" and paste.

    4 - MS Office 2007. What a dawg. IMHO, the last decent version of MS Office was '97. Since then, MS has been increasing bloat tenfold in ratio to features.

    5 - Activation. Every time I get near MS software, I'm dealing with CD key numbers and activation. The last OS X software I had to activate was iWork 06. Apple got the memo. Why didn't MS get the memo?

    6 - thumbs.db. I could rant about this but in fairness I'd also have to rant about .ds_store at the same time so I'll give MS a pass on this particular nugget of crap.

    7 - Unix underneath. Why doesn't MS think of this? Any time I like, I can go to a shell and get a real *nix shell not that watered down cmd thing that comes with Windows. If you haven't spent a lot of time with bash, perhaps you won't understand this but take some time to read up on the power of the unix shell and it will become apparent that bash is superior to cmd in every possible way.

    8 - Lion vs SL vs Leopard vs Win 7. To me the first 3 are superior to the 4th but there are some tradeoffs when compared to each other. I can see why somebody would argue that SL is superior to Lion in that SL still allows you to run PPC apps but for me the ability to use iCloud and photostream more than compensate with the need to bid farewell to gems like Palm Desktop and MS Office 2004.

    I'm not saying the OP is wrong for not liking OS X. It's his right, but for my purposes and my workflow, I find OS X to be far superior to Win 7.
  13. 3282868 macrumors 603

    Jan 8, 2009
    As a user of both OS X and Windows for 10+ years, both have their pro's and con's. When I first switched to OS X (while a grad student at Columbia it was mandatory due to security that students in my department ran OS X) I was resentful. What happened to the "hands on" approach? Why all this GUI front-end? I missed the way I ran my system... but that was the main reason, I dug my heels in and refused to change.

    Once I began working more and more in OS X environments, I found the counterparts I used for Windows. I sat down for a week when I had a break and learned terminal, Xcode, became familiar with the GUI and developed a workflow that blew Windows out of the water. I have no issues with Windows 7, I run it off one of my Mac Pro SATA bays and as Bootcamp has all the necessary drivers it runs better than it did on a Windows box.

    There are two sides to the issue that users/switchers grapple with in OS X. OS X/Unix [generally] works well due to Apple's insistence in developing the hardware with its OS.


    - OS X EFI vs BIOS and hardware/software development:
    Apple tests its hardware with their OS in order to avoid the myriad of incompatible hardware combinations and drivers associated with Windows running on so many different system configurations. I could not imagine being an MS engineer and having to work with third party vendors to ensure the next OS works well. Consider all the various hardware combinations that must be accounted for when coding, and ensuring that third party vendors' drivers do not cause BSOD's.

    - UI:
    While Windows 7 has a good UI, OS X's front-end is vastly superior [for me] in my workflow. Exposé is genius as well as Spaces [at least before Lion and "Mission Control," which is another topic that has been addressed many times]. Even after a decade since OS X/NeXT launched, the Dock is still a great method in accessing my most used app's. The addition of "Stacks" since 10.5 Leopard was a great addition. Sure, it took me a long time to get used to using a heavy UI OS, but rarely do I need to get into technical terminal commands, etc as I did with Windows. Being a visual person by nature, I'm surprised I fought this difference.

    - App Installation:
    Installing applications doesn't throw random files into numerous hidden places and there's no system registry to alter should something go wrong. Certainly .plist files are created, but are generally harmless and should one reinstall a deleted app your preferences are restored. Only a few app's effect startup by placing .plist's in the main and user library /LaunchXXX/ folders. Yet manual removal of these files or even app's rectify this issue should it cause conflicts. Any time I need to remove an app, just drag it to the trash. Done.

    - System Customization:
    Many believe OS X can't be personalized. Not true. Either use "Candybar" or if you know what you are doing, modifying preferences in the "CoreServices" directory for your Dock and other system apps is easy. I always change my dock from the silver to black as the app "orb" indicators appear better against the black dock (I still don't know why Apple continues to utilize a silver Dock when almost every OS X developer has reported it as a UI issue).

    - "Time Machine":
    Self explanatory :)

    - Native Apps:
    Mac Mail, iCal, Address Book, iPhoto - part of the OS and great app's, even for the Enterprise sect. I used Office (including the new 2011 w/ Outlook) but found Apple's app's much easier and cleaner to use. Some mistake the clean interface as being inferior to the loads of UI in Outlook, however that just isn't the case. Certainly they're not perfect, but I find them much better than Windows Office.


    - Closed eco-system:
    Yup, the same aspect that makes OS X work well with its hardware is also a hinderance as Apple is very, very tight with hardware. Many complain(ed) of the price hikes when Apple switched from IBM's PPC to Intel processors as some believe the hardware is similar and over-priced due to "Apple tax." While certain aspects may be true, much of the hardware isn't identical and there isn't a Windows based iMac counterpart that can rival what Jonny Ive has done. Plus, Apple systems have a high resale value. Trading up from my 8-Core 2008 Mac Pro to my current 6-Core Westmere cost me ~$500 after I sold my previous system on eBay. However, I also built a Hackint0sh for a friend for under $500 that runs "Snow Leopard" and "Windows 7" beautifully. It's a wash, but it would be nice if Apple opened its systems a bit more (many still jailbreak their iDevices in order to personalize them)

    - HFS+:
    OS X needs a file system update. Period. It's a shame as during the beta development of Leopard, one of the beta's hinted at implementation of then Sun Microsystem's ZFS+ protocol which would have been great for networked and large volumes. "Total Finder" is a great add-on, but should not be an "add-on." As for networking, Apple tends to move forward, perhaps too quickly, and SAMBA issues came around with 10.7 Lion. However, as already mentioned, this isn't simply an issue with Apple. I run a Synology server at home, and Synology addressed the issue almost immediately with an update. I have yet to have any issues with networking on Lion. In fact, the Ad-Hoc "Air-Drop" is a great system and I'm surprised it took this long to implement. However, Apple does need to re-think "Finder"/HFS+.

    - Lion:
    One issue: "Mission Control." Apple wants to bridge OS X and iOS to lure more consumers as it certainly has focused less on professional users. I do not like this, and neither do many, many others. If Apple simply released "iCloud" for "Snow Leopard," I would return to 10.6. This is a shame.

    Wow, I've written way too much. Coffee kicked in lol :)

    Any ways, hang in there. MacRumors is a great place to get advice, discover new things about OS X, and get help and solutions to issues that seem like a dead end.
  14. Simplicated macrumors 65816


    Sep 20, 2008
    Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
    Here's how I use iCloud: I installed Lion in another partition on one of my Macs. When I am free, I boot up Lion to let iCloud catch up with the changes. Then I boot back to Snow Leopard and continue my work.

    It is clumsy and tedious. But Apple just loves pushing people, and this is the only way I can work with it. In fact, I have moved all my contacts and calendar events over to Google, and I use iCloud only for bookmark syncing.
  15. r0k macrumors 68040


    Mar 3, 2008
    I was a Mobile Me user before iCloud. I definitely felt "pushed" to move to Lion. While I don't "like" Lion as much as Snow Leopard, I don't "mind" using it. It doesn't interfere with my work flow. I was mildly upset that I had to go around to all our old Mac minis putting in another gig of RAM but while I was there I popped in SSD drives and those machines are a pleasure to use now. I didn't like having to dig out the putty knives at a time of Apple's choosing but in the end I'm happier now than I was with those same machines with 1GB of RAM and 5400 RPM HDDs. I did a minor update to my Macbook at the same time and got a Seagate Momentus XT "hybrid" SSD. While it's not quite as fast as SSD, I'm delighted with it overall and the occasional reboot for software update is actually faster than getting MS Office to launch on a PC. :cool:

    I tried to use google sync back when I had a Blackberry phone with Missing Sync and BB Desktop Manager for OS X and I got dozens and sometimes hundreds of duplicates. I was wasting hours each week manually "resetting iSync" and other workarounds to get my data to sync without errors. I even bought shareware to clean up my address book including Bento so I could run queries to find sync mistakes. Once I switched to iOS and Mobile Me, I never got another duplicate record and I haven't launched Bento in over a year.

    Please elaborate on how you use Lion. For instance, are you using photostream? You mention letting iCloud "catch up" but what do you do to get things reconciled between your Lion and SL installs? Are you backing up your iOS devices using iCloud or iTunes? If you use google to sync contacts, do you get duplicates? Are you using OS X's built in sync to google or did you get some third party google sync?
  16. Simplicated macrumors 65816


    Sep 20, 2008
    Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
    I keep my bookmarks in sync between Chrome and Safari using Xmarks since Apple only allows bookmark syncing across iOS devices and Macs using iCloud. Then iCloud would fetch the latest version of the bookmarks in Safari, freshly updated by Xmarks. I use Photo Stream, but only on my iOS devices. I also use iTunes backups, lest my jailbreak preferences should not be sent to iCloud.

    I am using the built-in Google sync service and so far I have been very impressed. Aside from trivial issues like the loss of Birthday field, things are going perfectly. In fact, I think changes are pushed even faster than iCloud does, and I have yet to encounter duplicates (for the record, I once spent two hours fixing my MobileMe Contacts database because my iPhone somehow failed to connect to the servers and subsequently started to keep pushing the new contact to the database).

    So whenever I am in the mood of being raped by Lion, I simply wait for the bookmarks to finish syncing, which takes less than a minute, then I boot back to Snow Leopard for my work.
  17. coolspot18 thread starter macrumors 65816

    Aug 16, 2010
    Bluetooth in Lion ain't that great either ... especially with audio devices. I've been having problems keeping my bluetooth headsets connected to Lion :(
  18. r0k, Feb 1, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2012

    r0k macrumors 68040


    Mar 3, 2008
    The "fix" for the bluetooth issue on Windows was to go looking for some obscure services dialog and tell Windows to make the BT service log on as a local account. NOT!!

    The next "fix" was to go in and tell Windows not to turn off USB or Bluetooth to save power. While plugged in?!? Who wrote that crap? They don't have a stinking clue! Shut off BT and USB controllers to "save power" when on AC power. Tell the OS a system service should log on as me so it will run right. Oh yeah, that's a world class OS alright.

    I don't know about BT headphones, but I never had trouble linking my old Blackberry phone to my Mac and I've never ever had a moment's trouble out of my Logitech BT mouse unless its batteries were low.

    I just noticed an update for 10.7.3 so I have to allow it to reboot. I downloaded Airport Utility but I'll pass on 10.7.3 till I have more time. Take a look at the release notes for 10.7.3 and see what Apple claims to have fixed. Perhaps it will address some of the issues you are having. If not... There's always Snow Leopard.

    Ok I'm back after an hour. I wandered away and forgot about 10.7.3 but now I'm back. I'm gonna let it upgrade all my AE and TC firmwares now. So far so good.
  19. phobox macrumors member

    Dec 25, 2007
    Personally having used OSX for a few years now, I could never go back to Windows as my primary OS. I could list everything I like and dislike about both OS's but that would take an entire forum so I'll keep it simple here. Windows is too inconsistent, troublesome and messy for me to use as a primary OS. I find OSX to be a lot less frustrating to use, much easier to get things done and a lot better behaved. Everything on OSX tends to feel like it belongs there if you know what I mean, whereas on Windows I often got the feeling that things were bolted on later.
    I don't know if anyone else has noticed this but Windows always seems to be doing something even when nothing is running. For example I could sit there watching the hard drive light and it will literally never stop under Windows, while Im sure many will jump and say 'oh well thats superfetch'. Right and what good is it doing? None. Ive never seen any improvement from superfetch or one of the hundreds of other useless technologies bolted onto Windows these days, and Ive been a Windows user and sysadmin for 2 decades.
    Dont even get me started on software updates. The last update I done on Windows 7 was the same as every other update on Windows, a nightmare. First they all seem to require one or more reboots, second they take ages to install. On OSX a full system update 10.7.3 for example took 5 minutes to install and one reboot. Thats it, done. The last service pack for Windows took 3 reboots and 45 minutes to install. 'Nuff said.

    Apple do have a way of locking you into their ecosystem, once you're in its very hard to get out again. iPhone, iPod, Mac, iCloud all work so frighteningly well together its hard to even want to leave the comfort of it all. Microsoft and Windows have nothing that can compare. Windows barely works with its own stuff let alone anything else.

    Rant over :)
  20. vistadude macrumors 65816

    Jan 3, 2010
    Agree with everything the OP says except the "hype" OSX has. OSX doesn't have hype, it's apple hardware and apple logo that has hype. Windows 7 had hype, and lived up to the hype.

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