OSX Feature request...

Discussion in 'macOS' started by gifford, Jul 3, 2008.

  1. gifford macrumors 6502

    gifford

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2007
    Location:
    Miserable England
    #1
    Now that computers dont crash as often as they used to, and upgrades to OSX come every other month. If an installation requires a restart, it means shutting down 100 safari windows and 20 applications I leave open, which I often cant be bothered to do.

    A feature which restarted my computer, but saved and returned to the current state including every open window would be sweet.

    Cheers
     
  2. robbieduncan Moderator emeritus

    robbieduncan

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    #2
    You do realise this website is not associated with or sponsored by Apple in any way? "Requests" like this made here have no effect.
     
  3. gifford thread starter macrumors 6502

    gifford

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    #4
    Really? i didnt realize that. Thanks for pointing out. 5 plus years of reading this site, I thought Arn was Steve Jobs. Doh
     
  4. NewGenAdam macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2008
    #5
    A restart is supposed to stop the computer using any power (off completely), and reset the RAM so when it's started up again, everything loads freshly.

    What you want already exists on Windows: it's called hibernate on Windows machines. Basically it takes the RAM (where all your open apps and stuff live) and saves it to the hard drive. This means the computer can consume no power, yet return to the same point when powered up. It is a little slower than "sleep", where the RAM is kept active and slowly drains battery/power.

    Although if you're installing important updates, it's going to be making lots of changes, and possibly to those apps which you have open. So because of that, it needs to close everything so it all works properly when you start up with the new installation.
     
  5. gifford thread starter macrumors 6502

    gifford

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    #6
    I have put feature requests to apple before, IMO I have just as much chance of them reading this site as getting a response from apple(even though they are meant to have a strict policy of not reading rumor sites).

    If you read between the lines, I was kinda asking macrumors readers view on the feature, and potential request.

    Thanks, this was the type of discussion I was after.

    I see no problem with ram saved to disk, but I can see no real issure with updates, just an XML file which holds window and data reference which could be trashed if the update deamed it a problem.

    Or something similar, I would certainly find it useful.
     
  6. Cabbit macrumors 68020

    Cabbit

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    #7
    sorting the state of the system like the finder windows open and tabs open should be pretty simple to store as part of the shutdown procedure. Though it would be best as a option like "saved restart".

    But for apples updates, this is a unix system and should never need restarted for updates i really don't know how apple messed this up.
     
  7. kg9ov macrumors member

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    Feb 12, 2005
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    In front of a computer...
    #8
    Never? Just because it's a unix system doesn't mean it never needs rebooted. Ever do a kernel update?

    -Tony
     
  8. ihabime macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2005
    #9
    It would be a nice feature, but I think it's more complex than you realize. As NewGenAdam said, just saving the contents of ram to the HD is impractical because many of the underlying libraries used by programs could have changed. It wouldn't just require OS changes, every OSX program would have to have that feature added. Some would be easy, like Safari would just need to store the addresses of open windows, firefox already does this, I think finder does too. For more complex programs it gets harder, something like photoshop has to decide where and how to deal with unsaved work.

    The OS part is easy, just keeping a list of the programs running before the restart, it's getting all those 3rd party apps to implement it that's tough.
     
  9. Cabbit macrumors 68020

    Cabbit

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    #10
    OSX already saves its state to hard disk when power is lost during sleep.
     
  10. ihabime macrumors 6502

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    Jan 12, 2005
    #11
    Yes, but the OP was asking about restarts during upgrades, any changes to the OS would make bringing a saved image back in risky.
     
  11. gifford thread starter macrumors 6502

    gifford

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    #12
    I think I see your point, except I cant help imagining an app like photoshop automatically saving in a temporary folder and as a .PSD and the window position (along with address of PSD file) stored in an XML file.
    That way the PSD should just contain data that is independent of OS libraries and compatible with newer versions of photoshop.

    Being independent from OS libraries and future compatible with applications is surely a feature already built in to native file formats?
    Writing a feature into OSX in my head seems a relatively simple and painless task with little or no complications to the app builder. But i could well be wrong. Actually I could probably have a bash at creating the feature myself out of curiosity, if I get time. Maybe even out of plain Applescript. Will add it to an never ending list of potential projects.
     
  12. ihabime macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2005
    #13
    I agree, it's not something that would be terribly hard to implement for Apple, it would merely be a new message, 'safe quit' instead of 'quit'. It's getting the applications programmers to go along that's hard. Take your Applescripting idea, it would be easy to write a script that goes through each running application, tells them to save to a temp folder and quit, then write a list of those apps and their open documents to a file, then write another script that reads that file and reopens the apps and their documents. Dead easy, right? Except that you'll quickly realize that not all applications implement even simple apple events, including ones written by Apple itself. Applescript has been around since system 7, I think, and Apple has been making it easier and easier to include support in your program, but a fair amount of apps still don't use it.

    That's what I mean by complex, Apple would have to really push programs to add the feature and it would probably take a while before everything included it.

    It really is a nice feature idea, I seem to remember discussions about things like this back in the 90s when 'future OSs' were discussed. The gist was that the OS would always be aware of its state and be able to return to it no matter what happened, power failure, sudden shutdown, hardware problems, system update, even kernel replacement. Current deep sleep and hibernate modes are really just a hack compared to that, they just take a snapshot of memory to disk.
     
  13. gifford thread starter macrumors 6502

    gifford

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    #14
    OK, I properly see your point now, there are quite a few apps that are springing to mind now that would cause problems.
    Shame, one day my computer will become so stable, that I may not ever be able afford the time to upgrade and restart my mac!
    I'm pretty much there now, it's probably a good 3hrs out of my life to manually return my computer to the multiple app, multiple window state I enjoy and find most productive.
     
  14. pjrobertson macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2007
    #15

    Hmm... If I shutdown / restart, all finder windows are returned exactly how I left them. If you use a session manager for your browser, it'll return everything back to normal.

    I'd say we've got it all already :D

    and btw: Apple don't respond to 'feature requests' sent from their feedback page.
     
  15. ihabime macrumors 6502

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    Jan 12, 2005
    #16
    Well, as long as you know all the apps you normally use are Applescriptable, cobbling something together wouldn't be to hard.
     
  16. MacDawg macrumors P6

    MacDawg

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    "Between the Hedges"
    #17
    Frankly, I find that astonishing :eek:

    Woof, Woof - Dawg [​IMG]
     
  17. gifford thread starter macrumors 6502

    gifford

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2007
    Location:
    Miserable England
    #18
    But what about..
    30 x Fireworks Windows
    10 x Photoshop
    100 web pages
    password storage program
    mail
    rss
    5 x half read PDF's + 3 mock images to show clients in Preview .
    3 partial xcode programs, and 3 demo xcode projects I'm using for reference.
    Numerous Interface Builder windows.
    An FTP program with multiple (roughly 10) accounts.
    Textwrangler with 15 windows open. plus Textedit with 4.
    a calculator
    Code collector pro
    itunes
    a half watched apple iphone developer video in QT
    PHP function index
    Dreamweaver x 3
    Adium

    And today is quite a good day, no illustrator, no 3D, no multiple browsers for testing, movie editing or audio editing (or logic audio and its trillion windows n plugins), and no omnigraffle.
     
  18. pjrobertson macrumors 6502a

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    #19
    Just put your Mac to sleep then ;)
     
  19. bbbensen macrumors 6502

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    Feb 24, 2008
    #20

    Do you really need to have 100+ windows of safari open? When your done with something, close it. I dont think you need all of them. (I bet you will show me other wise though....)
     
  20. gifford thread starter macrumors 6502

    gifford

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2007
    Location:
    Miserable England
    #21
    Yes I do. To think I have not considered closing windows is stupid.

    Admittedly there is a very high percentage that I 'could' close. But it saves me time to keep it open just incase I need to find that page again.
    Once I have completed a project or whatever research I'm up to, I will go through and close all those windows, but until then they stay open.

    I have many projects ongoing at any time, I use many types of media, I write in over 10 languages, a billion protocols, API's and frameworks, I design circuits, device enclosures, component procurement, event promotion, design giant mechanical monsters and much other stuff.
    My method of organization works just fine (for me), I didnt start this thread looking for computer operating advice!
     
  21. PlaceofDis macrumors Core

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    #22
    why is the update a huge priority then if you're in a work environment? wouldn't it be better to wait until you are at a stopping point and the update is known to not break anything? just saying. not trying to start a fight.

    afaik, no update is going to be urgent enough to require you to do it right then and there. if anything do it monthly or weekly and have less hassle. have a set time for it instead of when it pops up.
     
  22. gifford thread starter macrumors 6502

    gifford

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2007
    Location:
    Miserable England
    #23
    I unfortunately dont ever have stopping points, some projects last years and some only months, but they rarely are all finished at the same time.
    The only time I get to install updates is when my computer crashes, which is pretty rare nowadays.

    The updates are not of huge urgency, I can survive, but a solution would be better. IMO the feature should be built into the OS, it is how I feel a computer 'should' work, therefore is how I expect a Mac to work.
     

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