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gifford

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Now that computers dont crash as often as they used to, and upgrades to OSX come every other month. If an installation requires a restart, it means shutting down 100 safari windows and 20 applications I leave open, which I often cant be bothered to do.

A feature which restarted my computer, but saved and returned to the current state including every open window would be sweet.

Cheers
 
You do realise this website is not associated with or sponsored by Apple in any way? "Requests" like this made here have no effect.
 
You do realise this website is not associated with or sponsored by Apple in any way? "Requests" like this made here have no effect.

Really? i didnt realize that. Thanks for pointing out. 5 plus years of reading this site, I thought Arn was Steve Jobs. Doh
 
A restart is supposed to stop the computer using any power (off completely), and reset the RAM so when it's started up again, everything loads freshly.

What you want already exists on Windows: it's called hibernate on Windows machines. Basically it takes the RAM (where all your open apps and stuff live) and saves it to the hard drive. This means the computer can consume no power, yet return to the same point when powered up. It is a little slower than "sleep", where the RAM is kept active and slowly drains battery/power.

Although if you're installing important updates, it's going to be making lots of changes, and possibly to those apps which you have open. So because of that, it needs to close everything so it all works properly when you start up with the new installation.
 
I have put feature requests to apple before, IMO I have just as much chance of them reading this site as getting a response from apple(even though they are meant to have a strict policy of not reading rumor sites).

If you read between the lines, I was kinda asking macrumors readers view on the feature, and potential request.

A restart is supposed to stop the computer using any power (off completely), and reset the RAM so when it's started up again, everything loads freshly.

What you want already exists on Windows: it's called hibernate on Windows machines. Basically it takes the RAM (where all your open apps and stuff live) and saves it to the hard drive. This means the computer can consume no power, yet return to the same point when powered up. It is a little slower than "sleep", where the RAM is kept active and slowly drains battery/power.

Although if you're installing important updates, it's going to be making lots of changes, and possibly to those apps which you have open. So because of that, it needs to close everything so it all works properly when you start up with the new installation.

Thanks, this was the type of discussion I was after.

I see no problem with ram saved to disk, but I can see no real issure with updates, just an XML file which holds window and data reference which could be trashed if the update deamed it a problem.

Or something similar, I would certainly find it useful.
 
sorting the state of the system like the finder windows open and tabs open should be pretty simple to store as part of the shutdown procedure. Though it would be best as a option like "saved restart".

But for apples updates, this is a unix system and should never need restarted for updates i really don't know how apple messed this up.
 
But for apples updates, this is a unix system and should never need restarted for updates i really don't know how apple messed this up.

Never? Just because it's a unix system doesn't mean it never needs rebooted. Ever do a kernel update?

-Tony
 
I see no problem with ram saved to disk, but I can see no real issure with updates, just an XML file which holds window and data reference which could be trashed if the update deamed it a problem.

Or something similar, I would certainly find it useful.

It would be a nice feature, but I think it's more complex than you realize. As NewGenAdam said, just saving the contents of ram to the HD is impractical because many of the underlying libraries used by programs could have changed. It wouldn't just require OS changes, every OSX program would have to have that feature added. Some would be easy, like Safari would just need to store the addresses of open windows, firefox already does this, I think finder does too. For more complex programs it gets harder, something like photoshop has to decide where and how to deal with unsaved work.

The OS part is easy, just keeping a list of the programs running before the restart, it's getting all those 3rd party apps to implement it that's tough.
 
It would be a nice feature, but I think it's more complex than you realize. As NewGenAdam said, just saving the contents of ram to the HD is impractical because many of the underlying libraries used by programs could have changed. It wouldn't just require OS changes, every OSX program would have to have that feature added. Some would be easy, like Safari would just need to store the addresses of open windows, firefox already does this, I think finder does too. For more complex programs it gets harder, something like photoshop has to decide where and how to deal with unsaved work.

The OS part is easy, just keeping a list of the programs running before the restart, it's getting all those 3rd party apps to implement it that's tough.

OSX already saves its state to hard disk when power is lost during sleep.
 
It would be a nice feature, but I think it's more complex than you realize. As NewGenAdam said, just saving the contents of ram to the HD is impractical because many of the underlying libraries used by programs could have changed. It wouldn't just require OS changes, every OSX program would have to have that feature added. Some would be easy, like Safari would just need to store the addresses of open windows, firefox already does this, I think finder does too. For more complex programs it gets harder, something like photoshop has to decide where and how to deal with unsaved work.

The OS part is easy, just keeping a list of the programs running before the restart, it's getting all those 3rd party apps to implement it that's tough.

I think I see your point, except I cant help imagining an app like photoshop automatically saving in a temporary folder and as a .PSD and the window position (along with address of PSD file) stored in an XML file.
That way the PSD should just contain data that is independent of OS libraries and compatible with newer versions of photoshop.

Being independent from OS libraries and future compatible with applications is surely a feature already built in to native file formats?
Writing a feature into OSX in my head seems a relatively simple and painless task with little or no complications to the app builder. But i could well be wrong. Actually I could probably have a bash at creating the feature myself out of curiosity, if I get time. Maybe even out of plain Applescript. Will add it to an never ending list of potential projects.
 
I think I see your point, except I cant help imagining an app like photoshop automatically saving in a temporary folder and as a .PSD and the window position (along with address of PSD file) stored in an XML file.
That way the PSD should just contain data that is independent of OS libraries and compatible with newer versions of photoshop.

Being independent from OS libraries and future compatible with applications is surely a feature already built in to native file formats?
Writing a feature into OSX in my head seems a relatively simple and painless task with little or no complications to the app builder. But i could well be wrong. Actually I could probably have a bash at creating the feature myself out of curiosity, if I get time. Maybe even out of plain Applescript. Will add it to an never ending list of potential projects.

I agree, it's not something that would be terribly hard to implement for Apple, it would merely be a new message, 'safe quit' instead of 'quit'. It's getting the applications programmers to go along that's hard. Take your Applescripting idea, it would be easy to write a script that goes through each running application, tells them to save to a temp folder and quit, then write a list of those apps and their open documents to a file, then write another script that reads that file and reopens the apps and their documents. Dead easy, right? Except that you'll quickly realize that not all applications implement even simple apple events, including ones written by Apple itself. Applescript has been around since system 7, I think, and Apple has been making it easier and easier to include support in your program, but a fair amount of apps still don't use it.

That's what I mean by complex, Apple would have to really push programs to add the feature and it would probably take a while before everything included it.

It really is a nice feature idea, I seem to remember discussions about things like this back in the 90s when 'future OSs' were discussed. The gist was that the OS would always be aware of its state and be able to return to it no matter what happened, power failure, sudden shutdown, hardware problems, system update, even kernel replacement. Current deep sleep and hibernate modes are really just a hack compared to that, they just take a snapshot of memory to disk.
 
I agree, it's not something that would be terribly hard to implement for Apple, it would merely be a new message, 'safe quit' instead of 'quit'. It's getting the applications programmers to go along that's hard. Take your Applescripting idea, it would be easy to write a script that goes through each running application, tells them to save to a temp folder and quit, then write a list of those apps and their open documents to a file, then write another script that reads that file and reopens the apps and their documents. Dead easy, right? Except that you'll quickly realize that not all applications implement even simple apple events, including ones written by Apple itself. Applescript has been around since system 7, I think, and Apple has been making it easier and easier to include support in your program, but a fair amount of apps still don't use it.

That's what I mean by complex, Apple would have to really push programs to add the feature and it would probably take a while before everything included it.

It really is a nice feature idea, I seem to remember discussions about things like this back in the 90s when 'future OSs' were discussed. The gist was that the OS would always be aware of its state and be able to return to it no matter what happened, power failure, sudden shutdown, hardware problems, system update, even kernel replacement. Current deep sleep and hibernate modes are really just a hack compared to that, they just take a snapshot of memory to disk.

OK, I properly see your point now, there are quite a few apps that are springing to mind now that would cause problems.
Shame, one day my computer will become so stable, that I may not ever be able afford the time to upgrade and restart my mac!
I'm pretty much there now, it's probably a good 3hrs out of my life to manually return my computer to the multiple app, multiple window state I enjoy and find most productive.
 
A feature which restarted my computer, but saved and returned to the current state including every open window would be sweet.

Cheers


Hmm... If I shutdown / restart, all finder windows are returned exactly how I left them. If you use a session manager for your browser, it'll return everything back to normal.

I'd say we've got it all already 😀

and btw: Apple don't respond to 'feature requests' sent from their feedback page.
 
OK, I properly see your point now, there are quite a few apps that are springing to mind now that would cause problems.
Shame, one day my computer will become so stable, that I may not ever be able afford the time to upgrade and restart my mac!
I'm pretty much there now, it's probably a good 3hrs out of my life to manually return my computer to the multiple app, multiple window state I enjoy and find most productive.

Well, as long as you know all the apps you normally use are Applescriptable, cobbling something together wouldn't be to hard.
 
it's probably a good 3hrs out of my life to manually return my computer to the multiple app, multiple window state I enjoy and find most productive.

Frankly, I find that astonishing 😱

Woof, Woof - Dawg
pawprint.gif
 
Hmm... If I shutdown / restart, all finder windows are returned exactly how I left them. If you use a session manager for your browser, it'll return everything back to normal.

I'd say we've got it all already 😀

and btw: Apple don't respond to 'feature requests' sent from their feedback page.

But what about..
30 x Fireworks Windows
10 x Photoshop
100 web pages
password storage program
mail
rss
5 x half read PDF's + 3 mock images to show clients in Preview .
3 partial xcode programs, and 3 demo xcode projects I'm using for reference.
Numerous Interface Builder windows.
An FTP program with multiple (roughly 10) accounts.
Textwrangler with 15 windows open. plus Textedit with 4.
a calculator
Code collector pro
itunes
a half watched apple iphone developer video in QT
PHP function index
Dreamweaver x 3
Adium

And today is quite a good day, no illustrator, no 3D, no multiple browsers for testing, movie editing or audio editing (or logic audio and its trillion windows n plugins), and no omnigraffle.
 
But what about..
30 x Fireworks Windows
10 x Photoshop
100 web pages
password storage program
mail
rss
5 x half read PDF's + 3 mock images to show clients in Preview .
3 partial xcode programs, and 3 demo xcode projects I'm using for reference.
Numerous Interface Builder windows.
An FTP program with multiple (roughly 10) accounts.
Textwrangler with 15 windows open. plus Textedit with 4.
a calculator
Code collector pro
itunes
a half watched apple iphone developer video in QT
PHP function index
Dreamweaver x 3
Adium

And today is quite a good day, no illustrator, no 3D, no multiple browsers for testing, movie editing or audio editing (or logic audio and its trillion windows n plugins), and no omnigraffle.

Just put your Mac to sleep then 😉
 
Do you really need to have 100+ windows of safari open? When your done with something, close it. I dont think you need all of them. (I bet you will show me other wise though....)

Yes I do. To think I have not considered closing windows is stupid.

Admittedly there is a very high percentage that I 'could' close. But it saves me time to keep it open just incase I need to find that page again.
Once I have completed a project or whatever research I'm up to, I will go through and close all those windows, but until then they stay open.

I have many projects ongoing at any time, I use many types of media, I write in over 10 languages, a billion protocols, API's and frameworks, I design circuits, device enclosures, component procurement, event promotion, design giant mechanical monsters and much other stuff.
My method of organization works just fine (for me), I didnt start this thread looking for computer operating advice!
 
why is the update a huge priority then if you're in a work environment? wouldn't it be better to wait until you are at a stopping point and the update is known to not break anything? just saying. not trying to start a fight.

afaik, no update is going to be urgent enough to require you to do it right then and there. if anything do it monthly or weekly and have less hassle. have a set time for it instead of when it pops up.
 
why is the update a huge priority then if you're in a work environment? wouldn't it be better to wait until you are at a stopping point and the update is known to not break anything? just saying. not trying to start a fight.

afaik, no update is going to be urgent enough to require you to do it right then and there. if anything do it monthly or weekly and have less hassle. have a set time for it instead of when it pops up.

I unfortunately dont ever have stopping points, some projects last years and some only months, but they rarely are all finished at the same time.
The only time I get to install updates is when my computer crashes, which is pretty rare nowadays.

The updates are not of huge urgency, I can survive, but a solution would be better. IMO the feature should be built into the OS, it is how I feel a computer 'should' work, therefore is how I expect a Mac to work.
 
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