Other Mobile Phones with Similar Signal Loss Issues

[dshlapak]

Protect My iPhone 4!

So where exactly can I find "one of many available cases" for the iPhone 4 to which Apple refers? I've scoured the net and so far found only Apple's $30 "bumper" case and some screen protection films. There are lots of options for the 3G/S, but are there any for the iPhone 4? I'm not so much worried about signal loss as I am terrified of dropping the damn thing...

 

[Jett0516]

So Apple says: "Don't hold it that way!"

Yet in their very own ads...

http://www.twitpic.com/1zs2jp

lol

 

[BC2009]

This is just AT&T and Apple's way of alleviating iPhone traffic on AT&T's network. Whenever the iPhone 4 is held incorrectly then the caller drops off the network, thus freeing up bandwidth for other folks.

At least we know why Apple actually created "bumpers" for a phone. Why else would Apple encourage / support hiding any part of their new snazzy design. To date they have always said "the iPhone does not need a case". They new about this, but they new about it too late in the game.

What they should do is offer free bumpers with every iPhone-4. They may retail for $29.99 but we know they cost Apple about $0.29 to manufacturer.

 

[DMann]

Why has Apple put that antenna in a place where you hold the phone? Surely they should keep it near the top where it belongs. I've never seen anyone holding an iphone 4 upside down, but then...I've not seen everything...

Apparently, the FCC required that the antenna's location in cell phones be placed furthest from the head, hence its location at the bottom.

Incidentally, holding the phone upside down, while on a call, does has its advantages.

It maximizes sound quality for both mic and speaker, maximizes antenna reception, by directing antenna upward, all while allowing you to hold the phone freely within your palm, hand, etc.

 

[DMann]

There IS a reason I am getting a replacement phone. Certainly, I wouldnt make the time and effort to get another phone with the same problem. Apple support says an early batch of phones shipped without a non-conductive coating on the SS band. Later shipments are not having the dropped signal issue.

There you go.

I suspect the one I've received has the metal coating, as I've had no issues.

This is good to know.

 

[Bubba Satori]

This is just AT&T and Apple's way of alleviating iPhone traffic on AT&T's network.

It's nice to know that Apple's junk hardware has the same problems as everybody else's.
At least it's offset by the cool cognescenti, iSpecial, knowing they paid more for a superior, stylish brand.

 

[mac*jedi*g]

Jobs should really adopt a much more intimidating persona to quell dissenters at times like this --- like a Mr. T:

"You know... I'm Steve Jobs.

I'm a "Mac-Tech 1 GOD". I'm armed with ideas in my head that will make an ordinary person salivate at a picture of fresh crap.

I make Apple, and all their products look goooooood.


SO DON'T GIVE ME NO BACK-TALK!!!!!!"

 

[DMann]

Sometimes I wonder if people write these" I'm leaving Apple for another company's product" posts for therapy? You won't sway people here with posts like this. Not with the hundreds of people waiting in lines around the world for the last 2 days for the iPhone 4. Are people doing this for the Droid? Would people do this for the Droid?

This would explain the persistence of a few anti-Apple zealots around here.

 

[paulypants]

To all the people on NOT having signal issues. Where are the video to prove it. I have yet to see a video where the lower left corner is bridged and the signal not be affected. Mine goes to searching And then no service every time..

Why should I? I'm not having any problems to document.

 

[iMacDave]

Apple - Engineers at Sleep on This One

Why didn't they separate the bottom portion of the metal band at the bottom end of the phone and reduce the size of the cellular antenna? Seems quite simple... Old internal antenna was much smaller. Hope I'm not repeating this comment (no time to read all these threads).

 

[paulypants]

Try this nifty trick. Put your iP4 on its side, volume buttons up. Now lay a nickel across the bottom seam. Went from 5 bars to 1 bar in about 30 seconds.

Out of curiosity I just tried that...it's been 10 minutes, full bars. Hope I didn't scratch my phone from the nickel

 

[DMann]

Why didn't they separate the bottom portion of the metal band at the bottom end of the phone and reduce the size of the cellular antenna? Seems quite simple... Old internal antenna was much smaller. Hope I'm not repeating this comment (no time to read all these threads).

The non-conductive coating solves the issue.

 

[matttye]

I don't mean for that subject title to be unkind but to state literially that the problem revolves around people being technically illiterate when it comes to RF communications. The fact is the electromagnetic field generated by a transmitting device is impacted by the surrounding environment. It is just a fact of life.

As to iPhone 4 it is no more flawed than any other cell phone or device with an RF transmitter. At times the operator has to use his intelligence to optimize local conditions. It is no different than one adjusting his TV antenna to maximum signal strength and minimal multipath for local conditions.

In this case Jobs is correct hold the unit so you optimize local conditions. Really folks this is a case of unreasonable expectations feed by technical illiteracy. An antenna is an antenna be it on a cell phone or a TV or a two way radio. They will and do interact with the surrounding environment.



Dave

Are you seriously defending Apple on this?

The most logical way to hold a phone is flat in your palm, with your fingers wrapped around one side of the phone, and your palm wrapped around the other side, to grip the phone. With the new iPhone 4, you can only do this if you're right handed... if you're a lefty you have to specifically position your hand on your phone to avoid blocking the antenna. This is CLEARLY a design fault. Why not make the join at the top where nobody puts their hands unless they're plugging in headphones / turning off the phone?

The fact is, they could have achieved the external antenna without this problem.

Also, as has been pointed out several times, Apple's own ads and images show them holding the phone in the way that Steve is telling people not to, and they show the phone working.

Seriously, "Don't hold the phone in your left hand or buy a case" is such a disrespectful response to the early adopters of the iPhone 4. That is so rude when a serious design flaw has been identified.

 

[BobVB]

Out of curiosity I just tried that...it's been 10 minutes, full bars. Hope I didn't scratch my phone from the nickel

Which indicates that there is a difference between phones and yours might have that mythic 'non-conductive coating' that has been rumored.

Mine obviously doesn't - further testing shows as little as a staple and even a bit of bacon (ah the flesh!) will cause the same signal drop if placed over the gap on the bottom left.

have a call in to  Support...

 

[BandGremlin]

Posts like this really show me that ignorance is bliss.

Apparently you haven't been informed of this before, but when your opening argument consists of baseless name-calling, you've already lost the argument.

First, help yourself, if you don't want to go for the iPhone 4 then don't but make it sound like your punishing Apple, they already have your money from the current iPhone plus a portion of the monthly recurring charge your paying.

This is true, which is why I was thinking of buying another iPhone. Our iPhone 3GS works for the most part. We do have problems with the phone, but it works most of the time. I've seen a few instances where my wife has full bars, I call her from the same room, and her phone doesn't even ring. I attributed those to AT&T and hoped the new antenna design would alleviate this problem.

You play around with your brothers Incredible phone and already you have an opinion that it's a sweet phone. Yeah, news flash, that happens with people that play around with their friend's iPhone, they think they are a sweet phone, haven't heard any issues because they don't care about tech news and think the iPhone is "Perfect".

The key part you missed is that my family already has an iPhone. I compared the Incredible to the iPhone 3GS and I was impressed. Both are great devices.

Thus far the reviews and anecdotal user experiences I have been reading about have been positive except for battery life. My brother bought himself a battery upgrade and the device works for an entire day and evening without interruption under moderate to heavy use.

I am also a software engineer, which means I have some insight into how these devices work and how to compare apples to Apples. The Incredible is a great phone, but the UI on the Apple 3GS ios4 is a more consistent and smooth experience.

You're short-sighted if you think leaving Apple for a Droid or an Incredible phone will solve your problems. Droid has issues just like the iPhone and any other tech product.

I'm not short-sided and I have yet to see the Incredible drop calls or data transfers while being held normally. I'm also not leaving Apple. We will still keep our 3GS at least until the contract is up.

Do yourself a favor and just wait a couple of months and these issues will be corrected. This is the second day since the iPhone was released and already you're convinced it's junk based on the problems that "Arrogant Apple won't address.

I'm convinced there is a major design flaw. Apple's nonchalant "You're holding it wrong" attitude was the straw that sent me looking elsewhere.

Sometimes I wonder if people write these" I'm leaving Apple for another company's product" posts for therapy? You won't sway people here with posts like this. Not with the hundreds of people waiting in lines around the world for the last 2 days for the iPhone 4. Are people doing this for the Droid? Would people do this for the Droid?

If you think you're swaying anyone with your brashness or continuation of Job's brash behavior about these issues then you are sadly mistaken.

I'm the customer Apple wants to keep. If I buy a Droid and my wife likes it then she just might want to switch when her contract runs out.

 

[yoitsmike92]

yep

I was literally in an apple store last night, and I can confirm with 100% confidence, that the 3gs does NOT experience the same signal loss as the iphone 4. I HELD THEM BOTH IN MY HANDS PEOPLE. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE.

edit: adding my enV touch doesnt loose any signal when held. so no SJ, it's not a common phone problem

 

[essential]

Try this nifty trick. Put your iP4 on its side, volume buttons up. Now lay a nickel across the bottom seam. Went from 5 bars to 1 bar in about 30 seconds. This is sad, but I am confident Apple will make it right. Think about the iMac 27". Anyone with a screen problem have any problem getting it fixed???
NOPE.


Oh, by the way, I can not accept a call with the 1 bar.

Hah, that's crazy. Mine goes from full (4 or 5 bars) to none (0 to 1 bars) within 15 seconds of placing the nickel. When taking the nickel off i'm back up to 4 or 5 bars within 30 seconds. I've done it 4 times now.

 

[anakin1992]

Either...

1. You are not bridging the strip.
2. You are wearing gloves or have very dry skin

is it enough of bridging: a big thumb of a wet hand?

3. You are loading a cached page

tried both cached and non-cached and new web sites

4. You are being dishonest

why do i need to be dishonest? here are my results:

(a) at work, i tested following your steps and i DID NOT see any weak reception or web site not loading. thus i replied to you
(b) at home, i did reproduce the issue with or without following your steps:
(b-1) following your steps, it happens quite often with or without cached sites
(b-2) i have a bumper on new iphone and when i sat on my sofa browsing web sites, i do see the issue even though i hold my phone on right part. sometimes without moving a bit at all, the reception is dropping quickly.

per my testings and understandings, it might be a software issue and improvement can be done by software as it is not a hardware defect. i do agree that apple QAs missed this type of testing. i guess those QAs drunk too much germany beer.

 

[BandGremlin]

This isn't so nice. First you are making a decision based on the ignorance of a lit of people in this forum. Second what you are calling a design flaw is at this time an open question. I can tell you one thing though, the so called problems being described in this forum are experienced by every cell phone ever made. Every phone will show signal strength variations as it is moved around and handled.

It is the nature of RF devices.

Yes, phones do indeed show signal strength variations when interference is created, but most phones are not designed with two separate antennas that are bridged when the user holds the phone.

Then why post here? If some idiot post videos on the net of signal strength variations, on either of those devices, will you run to yet another product?

For the most part I was actually reading. I posted here because I wanted others to see my opinion. I assume that is why you are acting out the way you are now. You want others to see your behavior.

And just what do you base that point of view on? I hope it isn't videos of signal strength variations as such videos can be made with any cell phone.

I've read a lot about the iPhone 4G because I was considering buying it. My first impression was WOW, but if I have to be careful not to connect the two antennas on the outer rim with my flesh each time I hold it then I am not going to enjoy it. Job's brash reaction to an observable and repeatable issue sealed the deal for me.

I actually don't care if you buy a different cell phone, the problem is doing so on a baseless reason. Worst is offering up that reasoning as a fact.

It's not baseless reasoning. I am almost certain this phone has a design flaw and I am choosing not to purchase it. I have observed as Apple has pretended this issue is somehow purely a user error. This makes me think that purchasing this phone is a bad investment as there may be other flaws that Apple refuses to fix. I don't want a phone that requires a special holding technique.

 

[BandGremlin]

The fact is the electromagnetic field generated by a transmitting device is impacted by the surrounding environment. It is just a fact of life.

As to iPhone 4 it is no more flawed than any other cell phone or device with an RF transmitter. At times the operator has to use his intelligence to optimize local conditions. It is no different than one adjusting his TV antenna to maximum signal strength and minimal multipath for local conditions.

In this case Jobs is correct hold the unit so you optimize local conditions. Really folks this is a case of unreasonable expectations feed by technical illiteracy. An antenna is an antenna be it on a cell phone or a TV or a two way radio. They will and do interact with the surrounding environment.

I'm sorry, but I have yet to encounter a phone that I had to hold with a particular grip in order to keep it from dropping calls. The iPhone 4 has an innovative antenna design that makes it more susceptible to user interference. Many people would call that a design flaw, but I hope you see it as a feature.

 

[trssho]

Am currently on hold with "mike" from tech support.

1) reset the "network settings". Me: Mike, thats going to disconnect us. Mike: it might, I will call back if it does. Me in my head: WOW!!!!

2) Ok, Andy...Mike here, we got disconnected. Me: DUH. Mike: Andy....eject the sim card. If we get disconnected, I will call back. Me: UGH!!!!

3)OK Andy...we got disconnected. I want you to try to replicate the problem now....OK Mike..

4) Andy, looks like you are having the same problem a lot of iP4 users are seeing. I am going to contact upper level tech support. We will be on hold for about 15 minutes......That was 10 minutes ago. I will keep mac rumors apprised .................

 

[HLdan]

Apparently you haven't been informed of this before, but when your opening argument consists of baseless name-calling, you've already lost the argument.



I'm not short-sided and I have yet to see the Incredible drop calls or data transfers while being held normally. I'm also not leaving Apple. We will still keep our 3GS.



I'm convinced there is a major design flaw. Apple's nonchalant "You're holding it wrong" attitude was the straw that sent me looking elsewhere.



If you think you're swaying anyone with your brashness or continuation of Job's brash behavior about these issues then you are sadly mistaken.

I'm the customer Apple wants to keep. If I buy a Droid and my wife likes it then she just might want to switch when her contract runs out.

Definition of Ignorance.
ignorance |ˈignərəns|
noun
lack of knowledge or information : he acted in ignorance of basic procedures.

I don't see anywhere how that would be an insult towards you. Unlike you towards me, I didn't write any personal attacks. I didn't say you were an ignorant person, I said ignorance is bliss and I wasn't wrong about this. 100 people can tell you their iPhone 4 is perfect and their service from Apple is perfect, that doesn't mean the iPhone 4 is without flaws. There are people on this very thread that said they are not experiencing any of the problems with signal. But that's them. I'm pointing out ignorance in your statement about your family having good experiences with the Droid or the Incredible, that doesn't mean that all is perfect and you may experience worse issues with those other phones and the company who makes them.

I didn't say you were "Short-Sided", I said you were "Short-Sighted.

I'm not discounting a design flaw, however you're ready to jump ship the day after the iPhone 4 released and Jobs says something you didn't want to hear. Apple has to fix the issues, there's too much press about this new phone.

Another personal attack from you calling me brash. I'm not brash, I'm just very real on this forum, I don't say things that people want to hear, like "I hate Apple, Apple sux, I'm leaving Apple, Screw Apple. You can check out all my previous posts and what you'll find is me genuinely helping people with problems but I'm not here to patronize the Apple haters. This is a Mac forum. You're not the customer Apple wants if you're going on public forums threatening to switch platforms due to Job's arrogance. Funny how new registrants such as yourself are always the ones that come here and make enemies at such an early state.

 

[BandGremlin]

I am not basing my opinion of the iPhone 4 on purely anecdotal evidence:

Hardware expert explains iPhone 4 antenna problem

"That's certainly possible," said Aaron Vronko, CEO of Portage, Mich.-based Rapid Repair, a repair shop and do-it-yourself parts supplier for the iPhone, iPod and iPad. Vronko, who regularly takes apart Apple hardware to get an idea of how they're built and their capabilities, completed a teardown of the iPhone 4 by early Thursday, just hours before the smartphone went on sale at Apple's U.S. retail stores.

As Vronko explained it, holding the iPhone 4 in a specific way could disrupt one or more of the two antennas embedded in the steel strip running along the outside edge of the case. "Holding it, especially if your skin was a little bit sweaty, could bridge one or more of the antennas," said Vronko. "That would change the length of the antenna, so it would be tracking a different wavelength than Apple designed it for."

This is much the same thing that other users have stated here.

 

[DMann]

I am not basing my opinion of the iPhone 4 on purely anecdotal evidence:

Hardware expert explains iPhone 4 antenna problem

"That's certainly possible," said Aaron Vronko, CEO of Portage, Mich.-based Rapid Repair, a repair shop and do-it-yourself parts supplier for the iPhone, iPod and iPad. Vronko, who regularly takes apart Apple hardware to get an idea of how they're built and their capabilities, completed a teardown of the iPhone 4 by early Thursday, just hours before the smartphone went on sale at Apple's U.S. retail stores.

As Vronko explained it, holding the iPhone 4 in a specific way could disrupt one or more of the two antennas embedded in the steel strip running along the outside edge of the case. "Holding it, especially if your skin was a little bit sweaty, could bridge one or more of the antennas," said Vronko. "That would change the length of the antenna, so it would be tracking a different wavelength than Apple designed it for."

This is much the same thing that other users have stated here.

Yet, this does not take into consideration the absence of the non-conductive coating missing on a batch of early shipments.

I have been using one for two days, without issue - sweaty hands, and all.

The coating apparently renders the bridging problem irrelevant.

 

[BandGremlin]

Yet, this does not take into consideration the absence of the non-conductive coating missing on a batch of early shipments.

I have been using one for two days, without issue - sweaty hands, and all.

The coating apparently renders the bridging problem irrelevant.

That would be great if that were the issue.

If there really was a manufacturing defect on some earlier models then Apple should acknowledge it. That would go a long way to convincing me to give the iPhone another look.

Job's response was not a good response. I would be much more inclined to purchase the phone if this were a flaw on some models and not all.

Instead we are told that we are holding the phone incorrectly.