Over 1000 Universal (Intel) Applications? and Windows on Mac?

[macusque]

It's the OS, stupid..

Well, if anything I'd much prefer to be able to boot OS-X on a PC than Windows on a Mac...

The only "issue" I see in the Apple world is the complete absence of desktop machines in the price range between 900 - 1200 $.
For example an hardware similar to that of the Intel iMac but without the LCD and with better expandibility (Ram, HD and VideoCard).

The main reason to stay with Apple is the OS, not the pretty hardware.

 

[Stridder44]

Gee, for $1400 I can get an XPS200 (3 GHz dual-core, 1 GiB RAM, 250 GB disk, 128 MiB Radeon PCIe card, MCE with TV tuner and PVR, and a 19" LCD). No black plastic (white and silver), and it's about the size of three 15" laptops stacked together.

*The largest system is pretty close to the size of the PMG5.


The LCD looks a lot better than the ungainly white plastic iMac monitor - trim and sleek without that ugly white bar across the bottom.

You're on your own there buddy

 

[g.x]

Even if you can't get Windows to boot up on a Mac, I would assume the new versions of VirtualPC would be good enough. I would think VirtualPC could run near native speeds on any Intel-based Mac.

Why would you assume this? Even though the processor is one for which Windows was designed, the OS (Windows) is still running as an application (a big, clunky one at that) inside OS X.

All applications take up resources. Big, huge applications (like an entirely separate OS) take up more resources.

Running Windows within OS X will never reach native speeds. Running it as a dual boot, of course, will (because it is, in fact, native).

Remember that running a Windows program within OSX is running an application (the program) within an environment (Windows) under an OS. This extra layer is what will always slow it down, just like Classic was slower than a pure OS installation.

There may be a Rosetta-like solution (translation on the fly) but it will suffer performance hits just like Rosetta.

 

[Peace]

Gee, for $1400 I can get an XPS200 (3 GHz dual-core, 1 GiB RAM, 250 GB disk, 128 MiB Radeon PCIe card, MCE with TV tuner and PVR, and a 19" LCD). No black plastic (white and silver), and it's about the size of three 15" laptops stacked together.

*The largest system is pretty close to the size of the PMG5.


The LCD looks a lot better than the ungainly white plastic iMac monitor - trim and sleek without that ugly white bar across the bottom.

Now Aiden..come on...

I went to Dull and did the configure the computer and for what you listed the price was $1804 not $1400

X600 graphics card??
iMac has the X1600


The Dull LCD you posted was actually not widescreen so I added the only widescreen they had BTO which was a 20"..

 

[D*I*S_Frontman]

I would not trust a "dual-boot" system. While I would HOPE that a Windows virus might only attack the Windows partition of the systems HDD, I am not reasonably assured that an intrepid hacker couldn't find a way to get a read on how big the actual PHYSICAL HDD is--and wipe 'er clean. But I am not a programmer or software engineer--maybe this is just unfounded paranoia.

Also, it seems that the hassle of stopping to reboot when switching from Windows-only apps to internet apps would get old very fast, and not doing so would increase the potential for problems.

I personally would feel much better with OS X running an emulator like VPC. With the new CPU configs, I bet they'll get that program to really scream on a Mac.

Worrying about virus attacks from only one OS seems to make more sense. I'd prefer the OS with fewer known viruses as my main environment. Seeing that the known virus ratio from Windows to Mac OS X is about 25,000:1, that choice is simple.

As a Mac user, I have been spoiled by the relative safety of my OS. I'll never go back. Can't begin to tell you how many times family, friends, and co-workers have had to reinstall Windows due to virus problems. I have owned an original 512ke Classic, an LC, a Performa, a Pismo, a 1.25ghz DPG4 tower, an AluPowerBook, and a Mini over the last 20 years. Viruses contracted? 1 -- the "Scores" virus on my original machine in 1989.

Reinstalls of an OS (other than for upgrade purposes)?

NEVER.

Antivirus software?

NONE (except a brief use of Norton Utilities in '89 to get rid of the "Scores" visus from off of my FLOPPIES!).

In fact, this makes me want to get the last of the quad G5 towers with my next purchase--as PPC is going away, even fewer hackers will bother writing for it. Maybe IBM will cough up another great PPC chip down the road, keeping at least one Apple offering PPC-based for the foreseeable future, thereby maintaining support for the chip in SU's of the PPC version of OS X.

BTW, I am NOT anti-Intel. They look like a far better chip fab partner for Apple, all things considered. But life is just too da@m short to waste even an hour on virus remediation, IMHO, and I fear that CPU similarities and increased marketshare might make hacking OS X (Intel) more enticing.

 

[Play Ultimate]

Haha please explain why it is creepy. As much as I like apple, microsoft does have advantages and believe it or not, some features in windows I like are better than macs. The taskbar comes to mind. The whole microsoft is stupid argument is akin to saying colorado state university hates university of colorado and vice versa.....just plain silly.

They do. (Currently living outside Boulder) I assume you mean CU Bouder, not CU Denver.
Also UCLA hates USC and Berkeley hates Stanford etc.

 

[g.x]

I would not trust a "dual-boot" system. While I would HOPE that a Windows virus might only attack the Windows partition of the systems HDD, I am not reasonably assured that an intrepid hacker couldn't find a way to get a read on how big the actual PHYSICAL HDD is--and wipe 'er clean. But I am not a programmer or software engineer--maybe this is just unfounded paranoia.

I agree completely. When using a computer (typing, mousing around or, in the case of an application, running), you are simply instructing the OS to do things. Nothing stops an OS from having access to all the system's physical components...nothing except the OS itself, like in the case of Unix "permissions" and failure to have proper drivers.

I myself have pulled hard drives and plugged them into other systems. Without booting off of them, I've had access to them from running an OS on the drive I did boot off of. Whether or not they can be "read" is one issue (for example, I can't mount a Mac formatted drive on a Windows box). But I can definitely "see" it, reformat it, etc.

I I, a computer user can do it, so can any properly written application (which is, essentially, also a "user" of the OS). Unfortunately, this includes viruses.

My thoughts...a more technical person can probably provide a better opinion.

 

[Play Ultimate]

Reasons to worry: if Macs can run under both systems, software companies might want to provide only one version, and in that case that would be Windows (due to the market share). Just imagine Adobe deciding to run Windows-only, because Macs can run them too: cheaper for Adobe, maybe even for the customer (allowing the purchase of Windows). In the long run: a great OsX, with no great software to use there.

This is my biggest fear. Why would a software company need to write two versions if the entire marketplace was Windows-compatable?

From what I've read, there are a small handful of products that are not useable on a Mac. I cannot see any advantage to Apple except for possibly an incremental increase in marketshare.

BUT Apple cannot manufacture enough computers now!! What would happen if the demand increased by 50% overnight due to dual-booting?

Just wait for Virtual PC. It will work well enough for those the must use PC apps. And for those that it does not work for, I'm not sure a dual-boot Mac would work either.

 

[AidenShaw]

Now Aiden..come on...

I went to Dull and did the configure the computer and for what you listed the price was $1804 not $1400

It's Dell, no need to use childish pejoratives.

The $1400 was rounding up...

XPS 200 $1,379

Print Summary


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XPS 200

Date 3/9/2006 11:43:59 AM Central Standard Time
Catalog Number 29 Retail 19

Catalog Number / Description Product Code SKU Id

XPS 200:
Pentium® D Processor 830 w/Dual Core Technology (3.0GHz,800FSB) FZ830VH [222-1371] 1


Operating System:
Genuine Windows® XP Media Center 2005 Edition WMCE [412-0688][412-0721][420-4927][420-5460][420-5476][420-5585][463-2282][464-8764] 11


Media Center Enhancements:
Single TV Tuner with Remote Control TVT2 [320-4258] 306


Video Cards:
128MB PCI Express™ x16 ATI Radeon™ X600 SE X600SE [320-4297] 6


Memory:
Featured Upgrade a $60 value! 1GB Dual Channel DDR2 at 533MHz- 2DIMMs 1GB5P [464-5419] 3


Hard Drives:
250GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™ 250S [341-1520] 8


CD or DVD Drive:
8X CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW) w/double layer write capability 8DVDRW [313-4124][420-5781][420-5790] 16


Floppy Drive and Media Reader:
No Floppy Drive Included NFD [341-2299] 10


Modem:
Integrated 56K Data / Fax modem IM [313-2823] 14


Monitors:
FEATURED UPGRADE!! 19 inch E196FP Analog Flat Panel E196FU [464-7948] 5


Sound Card:
Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio IS [313-2758] 17


Speakers:
Dell AS501PA 10W Flat Panel Attached Spkrs for Analog Flat Panels AS501PA [313-4065] 18


Keyboard:
Dell USB Keyboard EK [310-5324] 4


Mouse:
Dell Optical USB Mouse OM [310-4037] 12


Office Software (not included in Windows XP):
No Productivity Suite - Corel WordPerfect® word processor only COREL [412-0803] 22


Network Interface:
Integrated Intel® PRO 10/100 Ethernet IN [430-0441] 13


Miscellaneous:
Award Winning Service and Support D51CF1 [464-2097] 82


Hardware Warranty:
1Yr Ltd Warranty, 1Yr At-Home Service, and 1Yr HW Warranty Support S111OS [950-3337][950-9797][960-6200][960-8680][983-2207] 29


Anti-Virus/Security Suite (Pre-installed):
PC-cillin Internet Security: AntiVirus, Firewall, Spyware removal 15-months TM15M [420-5639] 25


Dell Digital Entertainment:
Starter Entertainment Pack -Basic digital Music, Photo, and Casual Gaming SEP [412-0856][412-0865] 399


Adobe Software:
Adobe® Acrobat® Reader 6.0 AAREAD [412-0705] 15


Dial-Up Internet Access:
6 Months of America Online Membership Included AOLDHS [412-0687][412-0787][420-3224][420-5256] 37​

X600 graphics card?? iMac has the X1600

The x600 is fine for most people. Unlike the iMac, it has a x16 PCIe slot that I can upgrade if I want. I could even skip the card and use the GMA950 integrated graphics.

If I want more graphics or expansion, I could get the mini-tower.

Choice.

The Dull LCD you posted was actually not widescreen so I added the only widescreen they had BTO which was a 20"..

And I actually don't care if it's widescreen or not.

Movies will have letterbox bars regardless of whether you get normal or "short screen".

(The iMac 17" is really a 19" normal screen with the bottom cut off for that big white plastic bar. It's either a wider 15" or a shorter 19", depending on how you think about it.)

 

[Lord Blackadder]

It's Dell, no need to use childish pejoratives.

I personally would not get an iMac (I'm not a fan of AIO computers), but I would still buy a PowerMac (or whatever it will be called) over your Dell. I agree that the Dell wins (and Dell will ALWAYS win) in the content for money game, but they are simply not made to the same quality standard. Plus, after taking care of two dozen Dells at work for a few years, it is my opinion that Dell's customer service is a bit inferior to Apple's. Also, Dell is strictly mail order/ebusiness, whereas there are Apple retailers/service centers on the ground in my area.

Judging by the sample of Dell's we have at work, they also have a significantly high % DOA. None of the Macs we've bought have been DOA yet.

If I was going to buy a PC spec'd like that Dell, I'd build one. BTW, I have a Dell 2005FPW display, and love it - I just wouldn't blow $1300 on one of their XPS towers. Interesting that they include a PVR - but does it do hardware encoding like the EyeTV?

 

[Peace]

It's Dell, no need to use childish pejoratives.

The $1400 was rounding up...

You're right..Sorry..BUT

You showed an image of a 20" WIDESCREEN in your post..

Not the 19" regular..

At least be consistant..m'kay?

 

[Nermal]

The iMac 17" is really a 19" normal screen with the bottom cut off for that big white plastic bar.

We have 19" LCDs at work, and they're 1280x1024. That's the same res as most 17" displays, and the pixels aren't even square! I'll stick with my 17" iMac, thanks

 

[Lord Blackadder]

We have 19" LCDs at work, and they're 1280x1024. That's the same res as most 17" displays, and the pixels aren't even square! I'll stick with my 17" iMac, thanks

My brother has one like that...thay're getting very cheap now and are tempting, but I'm glad I spent extra to get my Dell 2005FPW (although I really wish I could have got the 24 incher). A lot of those cheap LCDs are analog only too, which is a waste IMHO.

 

[AidenShaw]

...but I'm glad I spent extra to get my Dell 2005FPW (although I really wish I could have got the 24 incher). A lot of those cheap LCDs are analog only too, which is a waste IMHO.

OTOH, with a good LCD monitor with good cables, you can be hard-pressed to see the improvement from a digital connection. ("good cables" is very important, lesser quality cables can cause lots of artifacts)

Right now I have two Dell 24" LCDs in front of me. The right one is on a DVI-D cable, the left one is analog (it's connected to an analog 8-port KVM switch).

When someone comes to me complaining that they need a new Quadro card to connect their new 24" flat panel - I just ask them to tell me which of my screens is digital and which is analog....

Those that guess wrong get to keep their old card

 

[AidenShaw]

Interesting that they include a PVR - but does it do hardware encoding like the EyeTV?

Hardware encoding is a requirement for MCE.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

OTOH, with a good LCD monitor with good cables, you can be hard-pressed to see the improvement from a digital connection. ("good cables" is very important, lesser quality cables can cause lots of artifacts)

Not just cables - a lot of the cheapo LCDs have not-so-great LCD panels, so I guess I shouldn't just blame it on the interface. But I have two computers connected to my 2005FPW, and I can tell the difference between using the DVI-D and VGA inputs...it isn't bad on VGA but there is definitely a difference.

When someone comes to me complaining that they need a new Quadro card to connect their new 24" flat panel - I just ask them to tell me which of my screens is digital and which is analog....

Those that guess wrong get to keep their old card

LOL, who are you, Mordac the Preventer?

 

[jdechko]

I think it's interesting that CS 3 will require users to have Tiger... maybe they're implementing CoreImage into their filters/plug-ins. That would be sweet. It's also hinted that they may use some stuff from 10.5 (Leopard), so that's interesting as well. I can't wait for WWDC to see what's coming out in 10.5

 

[pyrophite]

Ok, im sorry, i actually had to register in this forum to make this comment, i normally dont chime in but here's my 2 cents.

People worried about dual booting and viruses cross contaminating OS installs..... have you EVER formatted something via NTFS, and then encrypted it with password protection???? IT'S LIKE FORT KNOX outside the OS itself. Back in the day if you had an encrypted NTFS volume and didnt know the password the only way to gain access was either a linux boot disk that required local access to the hardware itself, or a reformat (which wouldnt have been able to be done from a different dual-booted OS). It's not even VISIBLE half the time. Install XP on an encrypted partition, then boot into another install of XP, you WONT be able to even SEE the partition. Windows isnt perfect, i know that, but one place they really shined is with the NT File System. Sure there are a few small workarounds to get access to the inner workings of an encrypted NTFS volume, but not a single one i am aware of that is able to do it via an OS environment virus. And with that said the worst case scenario is that the dual boot configuration deletes mention of the OSX boot loader, but seeing as i dont know how the OSX boot loader (or whatever the mac equivalent works), i'd assume it was rebuildable anyway like the Microsoft version.

Anyway, if you have reasons of your own to not want to dual boot, that's fine, or why you think im stupid to want a dual boot macbook, that's your own opinion, but if these reasons are based on unsubstantiated fear of a virus infecting a different partition from the XP os..... that's nonsense.

Just my 2 cents.


EDIT: The more i think about it, I suppose some of the fear could come from the fact if someone wanted to share both hard drives in each OS install, so like you had access to all files on the XP volume if you were booted in OSX and vise versa, and i suppose i can concede that point, but heck, if you're worried about that... just keep your files separate, duplicate them, or keep them on an external.

 

[AidenShaw]

LOL, who are you, Mordac the Preventer?

No, I am Κροίσος, he who defends the equipment budget