Overclocking the New iBooks

[iSmell]

Originally posted by Rocketman

The overheating issue matters. Is changing chips trivial? 🙂

I had one of the last revisions of the iBooks (back when 600 mhz was top of the line). I upgraded the hard drive and I can tell you, I don't think replacing anything other than the RAM or Airport card would be considered trivial by the average DIYer. It took me a few hours to get the thing apart and back together again and I almost gave up a few times because it was so frustrating. I did get an extra screw out of the deal, like a souvenier I guess.

Anyway, I wouldn't count on just popping in a new cpu if you overhear yours. It's probably not worth it for the average user. That said, I would probably do it if I had one of those thing 🙂

 

[Catfish]

Originally posted by topicolo
Speaking of processors that can be overclocked without modifying hardware, the pc side has had one for a while, starting with the celeron (celery?) 300A (300Mhz) that was overclockable to 450Mhz by upping the bus speed of the processor from 66Mhz to 100Mhz from the BIOS

[snip]

-t

Yeah, I was gonna mention this. The first computer I built myself was a K6 233, and brand spanking new at the time was an Abit motherboard that let you change the bus speed and multiplier (hence CPU clock speed) from the bios. It was called...SoftMenu or some such thing. I was K-rad with my Pentium 90 smoking at 100MHz. It wasn't all that new, though even then, (~1997) because my first computer, a Tandy 1000 with a 286 processor at a smoking 8 MHz came with an program you could run from DOS like cpuspeed or something, and you could change the speed to 4 or 8 MHz on the fly.

But those days are behind me, I am a happy Mac owner now. I never thought I would see the day, and now I can't believe it took me so long!

 

[Bradcoe]

celeron

I have a 300A celeron. I overclocked it the day I got it to 464Mhz. A processor designed for a 66mhz bus running with a 100Mhz bus PLUS Turbo (a few extra MHz in there). Talk about fun! I hate windows but I love to tinker with PCs. Theyre so cheap and...well...tinkerable lol. It's not like I care if something goes wrong with it. But then again, I've had (now my mom has) the celeron for about 2 years so nothing really did/does.

 

[Aciddan]

2002 iBook 600 is a 750CXe...

I have a 2002 iBook 600 and after reading the article it said that the 2002 iBooks (600/700) were 750FXs...

I have the 14" model with the 100Mhz FSB... When did the 750FX get introduced??

-- Dan,

 

[Bradcoe]

OCing been around for ever

Overclocking CPUs has been around froever. All you're doing it making it run at a higher speed than shipped from the factory (many ways to do this). Sometimes they go a lot higher, sometimes not at all. Depends on lots of things. But the 300A was certainly NOT the first to OC. Abit was the first with the SoftMenu which basically lets you OC stuff (change tons of settings) on the motherboard without having to physically move jumpers because you just change settings in the bios.

 

[Baseline]

Confirmed 600 overclock?

Could anyone *confirm* the ability to overclock the NEW iBook 600 to something higher?

I'd love to have an iBook right now, but the 700 Mhz 12" iBook is $500 CDN more than the 600 (I don't need a CDRW in a part-time laptop, that's what my desktop machine is for). So if I could save that $500 and manually push the machine to 700, that'd be fantastic. The extra money could go to some more RAM 🙂

 

[AlphaTech]

The main drive behind overclocking peecee's has been chips that were too damned slow to begin with. They also performmed crappy compared to how Mac chips did (even if the numbers were not there).

One of the HUGE disadvantages to overclocking a system is the excess heat that gets generated. That will degrade system components, such as the processor and motherboard. Once that happens, it's only a matter of time before the entire system fratzes out. To get rid of all that heat, alternate cooling systems have been developed. Many use water, or liquids, and some even use gases (super-cold) just to keep the computer from overheating and having a 'melt-down'.

If you have a cheap system that you don't care about, go ahead and OC it, but if you actually want to keep it running, I'd advise against it.

 

[ThinkpadsRule]

Very true. I fried my very first system OCing it without proper ventilation.

 

[Cappy]

If only people could put a Mac together like a PC where you can buy the motherboard, cpu, and everything else you need. Granted it wouldn't be a given but it would be nice to see the Mac hardware gain more features in firmware/bios that allow for features like easy overclocking. I've overclocked all of my PC's at home. Celeron 300a to 450, Celeron 566 to 850, and P4 1.6a to 2.1. Lots of folks are getting their P4 1.6a up to 2.4 and even 2.6ghz.

Not Mac bashing since I like Macs but it's not that easy on the Mac and even get those increases. Doing it in software is cool and all but now what about security? A virus or trojan that burns up your cpu. Ouch!

 

[blakespot]

Originally posted by topicolo
Speaking of processors that can be overclocked without modifying hardware, the pc side has had one for a while, starting with the celeron (celery?) 300A (300Mhz) that was overclockable to 450Mhz by upping the bus speed of the processor from 66Mhz to 100Mhz from the BIOS (I actually got one of those and they worked great. Apparently, 85% of those chips were perfectly stable at that insane overclocked speed).

Basically any CPU can be overclocked. The Celeron 300A was particularly forgiving. It's the fact that this can be done in software, with no hardware modifications (not even simple jumper block manipulation), that makes this such a notable issue.


blakespot

 

[blakespot]

Originally posted by AlphaTech
The main drive behind overclocking peecee's has been chips that were too damned slow to begin with. They also performmed crappy compared to how Mac chips did (even if the numbers were not there).

Not the most objective look at it, I'd say...

One of the HUGE disadvantages to overclocking a system is the excess heat that gets generated. That will degrade system components, such as the processor and motherboard. Once that happens, it's only a matter of time before the entire system fratzes out. To get rid of all that heat, alternate cooling systems have been developed. Many use water, or liquids, and some even use gases (super-cold) just to keep the computer from overheating and having a 'melt-down'.

If you have a cheap system that you don't care about, go ahead and OC it, but if you actually want to keep it running, I'd advise against it.

When overclocking within an acceptable thermal range, a force working against you is electromigration. Atoms of the metal that form the traces inside the CPU, especially at corners, get "carried off" with the current and the traces physically thin over time when running at excessive speed. The question here is, just how long will you be using a CPU (under remotely normal use patterns)? 3 years? Maybe. 5 years? Think reasonably and you see that a CPU need not last forever.


blakespot

 

[AlphaTech]

Actually, I was recently granted access to a resource that not many people do. I can purchase components that can be used to construct a Mac system. I could purchase a G4 QuickSilver motherboard (not the 2002 model, but still it's a QS mobo.). I will be keeping my eyes open for a processor that will work on it. I am thinking about making it into a project for next year. A home brew Mac system 😀... I would use a case from another party, something that will support the motherboard. I will also check to see about getting a power supply that works with the Mac, but comes from another company, that way I can have as many drives as I see fit. I would like to put together a system with several hard drives (more then four) set on a RAID card so that I can get top end performance out of them. I can see the possibilities... now I need to decide if I will go that route, or just get a system from Apple next year... Decisions, decisions, decisions.. 😀

 

[blakespot]

Originally posted by Cappy
Not Mac bashing since I like Macs but it's not that easy on the Mac and even get those increases. Doing it in software is cool and all but now what about security? A virus or trojan that burns up your cpu. Ouch!

It is not an easy task to overclock a Sun or SGI either. Similarly, many mainstream PC motherboards (as in not a roll-your-own-PC ASUS, Abit, etc.) lack easy overclocking features. With reason. When you open the door to overclocking, you're opening the door to corrupted and/or unreliable data. I am not against overclocking, but Apple, Dell, Gateway don't need support calls from overclockers who are having hardware issues.


blakespot

 

[LethalWolfe]

Re: Re: And the obvious reason for this is...

Originally posted by blakespot

Some, but not the sharp ones.

The CPU in the iBook 600 is spec'ed at 600MHz by Motorola. The iBook 700 has a CPU spec'ed at 700MHz. Could they be overclocked a bit? Likely--but they were not tested for speeds greater than the stated speeds. So there's no guarantee. Apple is most definitely not purchasing, say, 800MHz G3's and downclocking them to 700MHz for some incomprehensible reason nor are they (or would they or any other respectable hardware manufacturer) going to take a chip and clock it over it's spec'ed rating and sell it as a standard machine running at the higher speed.


blakespot

Coming from the land of PCs I'm gonna disagree w/ya here. I don't think it would be cost effective for Moto (or any chip maker) not to scale their chips to various speeds and put them in different price brackets. For example, a 600mhz P3 w/a 100mhz FSB and a 800mhz P3 w/a 133mhz FSB run exactly the same chip. The only difference is the FSB (and I'm sure Dell, Gateway, Compaq, etc. also have software "governors" that keep the CPU at it's "correct" speed).

Do I think PC makers sell any O/Ced chips? No. Do I think they sell "underclocked" chips? Yes. If computer makers only sold hardware at "max speed" they'd leave a lot of consumers in the cold and screw themselves. Do you reinvent the wheel to make a "lesser" product? No, you dumb down the best you have an sell it at a lower cost. Look at the new iMacs. They're running G4's but w/a 100mhz FSB. Do you think those are different G4's than what's in my tower? Heck no. I just have a faster FSB that allows my CPU to run faster.

Car companies do it (an Acura is just a really pretty Honda). Other chip makers (Intel and AMD) do it. Granted I'm still new to the Apple scene, but I don't see why Moto wouldn't do it.


Lethal

 

[AlphaTech]

Re: Re: Re: And the obvious reason for this is...

Originally posted by LethalWolfe
Car companies do it (an Acura is just a really pretty Honda). Other chip makers (Intel and AMD) do it. Granted I'm still new to the Apple scene, but I don't see why Moto wouldn't do it.

Expain yourself there mister... in what way does AMD do it? They have two chip lines, the Duron and the XP. They are not the same chips, and the XP's are clocked quite a bit higher then the Duron is.

I wouldn't put anything past intel for scamming people out of money, but I don't get the same feel from AMD. Besides the price difference between a top pee4 and XP chips is huge.

 

[beatle888]

OK, so why doesnt some unix or mac freak . . .

OK, so why doesnt some unix or mac freak . . . . .
...............write the CODE to do this ? .................

Come on, with all you programmers out there you think
wed already be enjoying this luxury the wonderful PC
users have.

Just write the damn CODE .....@;0)

I mean why not, WHY IS IT DIFFICULT!

Oh, waite. Im sure that was my ignorance talking
just then...sorry.

But Im sure theres someone out there with the
talent to do so, but I guess it comes down
to time and interest.

PC users are really pretty far ahead of us if you
dont mind me saying. ..........
.......................................Bastards !😱

 

[redAPPLE]

Re: Also the Dragonball

Originally posted by Sayer
The Dragonball (68k derivative) from Motorola can be changed in software as well. I had a lil app called AfterBurner that did this on my Palm V.

The speed change was definately noticeable in scrolling speed and more intensive games (Argon V for example).

hi.

is that a fact? where could one get "afterburner"?

 

[Beej]

Originally posted by AlphaTech
The main drive behind overclocking peecee's has been chips that were too damned slow to begin with. They also performmed crappy compared to how Mac chips did (even if the numbers were not there).

That may have had something to do with it, but people will always want to overclock their system no matter how fast it is. People are just funny like that...

--

Anyone remember those AMD chips (Athlons and Durons) that could be overclocked with a pencil? Now that was funny! 🙂

--

And to whoever asked, changing a processor in a Mac is not a trivial task. I fried a G4 400 a couple of months back, and I couldn't even buy a processor to put in it...

 

[Beej]

Re: OK, so why doesnt some unix or mac freak . . .

Originally posted by beatle888
OK, so why doesnt some unix or mac freak . . . . .
...............write the CODE to do this ? .................

Come on, with all you programmers out there you think
wed already be enjoying this luxury the wonderful PC
users have.

Just write the damn CODE .....@;0)

I mean why not, WHY IS IT DIFFICULT!

Oh, waite. Im sure that was my ignorance talking
just then...sorry.

But Im sure theres someone out there with the
talent to do so, but I guess it comes down
to time and interest.

PC users are really pretty far ahead of us if you
dont mind me saying. ..........
.......................................Bastards !😱

OK, calm down 🙂

I'm sure if this 'Reggie' app is Apple Scriptable it would be very easy to write a makeshift script that took care of it until someone came out with a real app to do it...

 

[blakespot]

Re: Re: Re: And the obvious reason for this is...

Originally posted by LethalWolfe


Coming from the land of PCs I'm gonna disagree w/ya here. I don't think it would be cost effective for Moto (or any chip maker) not to scale their chips to various speeds and put them in different price brackets. For example, a 600mhz P3 w/a 100mhz FSB and a 800mhz P3 w/a 133mhz FSB run exactly the same chip. The only difference is the FSB (and I'm sure Dell, Gateway, Compaq, etc. also have software "governors" that keep the CPU at it's "correct" speed).

Do I think PC makers sell any O/Ced chips? No. Do I think they sell "underclocked" chips? Yes. If computer makers only sold hardware at "max speed" they'd leave a lot of consumers in the cold and screw themselves. Do you reinvent the wheel to make a "lesser" product? No, you dumb down the best you have an sell it at a lower cost. Look at the new iMacs. They're running G4's but w/a 100mhz FSB. Do you think those are different G4's than what's in my tower? Heck no. I just have a faster FSB that allows my CPU to run faster.

Car companies do it (an Acura is just a really pretty Honda). Other chip makers (Intel and AMD) do it. Granted I'm still new to the Apple scene, but I don't see why Moto wouldn't do it.

I've spent more time in the PC world than the Mac world, and most of that time was spent behind overclocked machines. And having followed the scene for such a period, I'm aware that chip manufacturers run several scenarios in fabricating and testing CPU's.

Say Intel is producing a P3. Say P3's range from 733MHz - 1GHz. Intel may be looking to make a batch of 733 MHz P3's, so they take a wafer and test it to 733 and if it passes, then it becomes a P3 733. In another scenario they test a P3 out to 1GHz. It fails. They try it at 900MHz. Fails. They try it at 733MHz--it passes. This chip becomes a 733MHz P3 even though they were targetting 1GHz. The interplay of these scenarios would logically be based on the yields the company is getting. Both are valid scenarios.

Only if there is a high demand for 733's, much moreso than for 1GHz units, would a CPU company ever be inclined to take a CPU that passed at a certain clockspeed and sell it as rated for a lower clock.


blakespot

 

[blakespot]

Re: OK, so why doesnt some unix or mac freak . . .

Originally posted by beatle888
OK, so why doesnt some unix or mac freak . . . . .
...............write the CODE to do this ? .................

Come on, with all you programmers out there you think
wed already be enjoying this luxury the wonderful PC
users have.

Just write the damn CODE .....@;0)

I mean why not, WHY IS IT DIFFICULT!

I believe this news was made common knowledge...yesterday.

Clearly an app will be written. I imagine one will appear within a couple of weeks.


blakespot

 

[topicolo]

Re: Re: Also the Dragonball

Originally posted by redAPPLE


hi.

is that a fact? where could one get "afterburner"?

afterburner is a hack that you can get from www.palmgear.com, but I suggest fastcpu, which lets you do a lot more and it's an app, which tends to leave a palm more stable than a hack and it supports increasing the display refresh rates.
-t

 

[Catfish]

Originally posted by blakespot

I am not against overclocking, but Apple, Dell, Gateway don't need support calls from overclockers who are having hardware issues.


blakespot

Very true, it should be noted that you are voiding your warranty and taking your hardware into your own hands if you forge down this path. If you have the knowledge, or the willingness to learn and don't mind frying your hardware, it can be fun to goof around with. Just don't call tech support when you start having problems. They won't be very sympathetic.

 

[blakespot]

Originally posted by Catfish


Very true, it should be noted that you are voiding your warranty and taking your hardware into your own hands if you forge down this path. If you have the knowledge, or the willingness to learn and don't mind frying your hardware, it can be fun to goof around with. Just don't call tech support when you start having problems. They won't be very sympathetic.

And it's one thing to overclock a system where the CPU can be easily replaced, but another where it's soldered to the board (as in the iBook, I believe)...



blakespot

 

[Yewie]

Desktop - Sys Pref screwed!

Does anyone face this problem after upgrading??

Chaning my desktop background doesn't work on System Preferences. I can pick the picture. Everything seems okay on the system pref app.. but my desktop doesn't change!

Know how I can solve this??

no other problems yet.. but there is a better performance with the graphics in general.. not dramatic.. but definitely better than before.